igit that would make sense to mom?
for the Scale conference this year, we are going to use scale and scale-slow to
try and discourage people from using 2.4
David Lang
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is that there are no standards for
APs to talk to each other to do this sort of thing so nobody has tackled it as
an opensource project.
The commercial versions all seem to have a central server that makes these
decisions rather than the peer-to-peer model I would expect for an open
implemneta
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Rich Brown wrote:
- From what you’ve said, I don’t have much hope for doing it automagically.
But maybe we can provide clues to help the customer do to the right thing.
Perhaps the first dropdown could be “Link Layer Adjustments (used on DSL or
ATM)” with options for “None
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 07:04:54PM -0800, David Lang wrote:
As far as I have been able to tell this is purely a software thing.
I'm not sure that it's even that it's so complicated as it is that
there are no standards for APs to t
at this would
increase the risk of running into race conditions.
David Lang
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On Wed, 18 Dec 2013, Michael Richardson wrote:
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:07:15 -0500
From: Michael Richardson
To: David Lang
Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] treating 2.4ghz as -legacy?
David Lang wrote:
>> Michael Richardson writes:
>&g
On Thu, 19 Dec 2013, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote:
David Lang writes:
I believe that Linux allows having both tagged and untagged packets on
the samy physical interface, so the APs could communicate on a VLAN
and one could be the gateway to the rest of the network (similar type
of overhead
enemy of the good. Here are a
couple indications:
Strong agreement from me as well.
David Lang
- The rest of the world doesn’t know about this good work. If you look at the
front page of the site, we’re recommending CeroWrt 3.7.5-2 from last February.
It has Codel, but not much more. Our
ot of value in getting another release out that brings all the gains
that we have now to everyone. Then development can continue trying to optimize
things more.
David Lang
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can point people at something fairly recent to use
and they can use it with the expectation that by the time it becomes badly
obsolete we will have something newer available for them.
David Lang
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lt, especially for such a long lockout period.
If you make the lockout per-IP then it may be reasonable, but this could result
in a lot of IPs in your block list.
David Lang
See the /etc/xinetd.conf and /etc/xinetd.d dir for details
However this layer of defense is incomplete as several proces
f Cerowrt instead of
Openwrt for this configuration?
I selected this topology so that devices can transparently move from one AP to
another as they move through the hotel.
I'm thinking that in this configuration Cerowrt isn't likely to help
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014, Jim Gettys wrote:
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Mike O'Dell wrote:
re: systemd vs procd vs etcd...
If other distros have largely converged to systemd,
is it worthwhile for CeroWrt to do something different?
This assumes that the daemons in question have already or
are
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, J. Daniel Ashton wrote:
2. Google's new Chromecast device useable from all non-guest segments:
it has no Ethernet port, so it is on Wi-Fi at 2Mhz, my table on
Wi-Fi at 5Mhz, and my desktop on Ethernet. Both tablet and desktop
should be able to see the Chromecast and co
nice to be able to use one of the many routers that is
shipping with more flash (128M in the newer netgear routers would be nice)
if I were to get my hands on one, what sort of testing would you want to do to
it to tell if it looks like it would hold up?
David Lang
On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Dave
On Thu, 27 Mar 2014, Aaron Wood wrote:
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:50:27 +0100
From: Aaron Wood
To: David Lang
Cc: Dave Taht ,
"cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net"
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: wndr3800 replacement
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, David Lang wrote
If you think "fast lanes" will actually increase performance for any traffic,
you are dreaming.
the people looking for "fast lanes" are't trying to get traffic through any
faster, they are looking to charge more for the traffic they are already
passing.
David Lang
link-by-link basis with the combined packets of many connections,
not end-to-end based on a single connection.
David Lang
On Thu, 15 May 2014, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
I don't think that at all. I suspect you know that. But if I confused you, let
me assure you that my view of the proper ope
ngs to create a buffer.
David Lang
On Thu, 15 May 2014, David P. Reed wrote:
Both you and Dave Taft misunderstood my idea about standing queues not being
the right way to encode congestion in switches. I do not say there would be no
buffers for jitter. Nor do I call for admission control. I ju
that another issue with deploying fq_codel widely is that
it requires an accurate measurement (currently) of the providers bandwidth.
does it need this accurate measurement for sending or for the recieving pacing?
David Lang
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imize throughput, you want to buffer as much as you can tolerate
for latency reasons. For most apps, this is more than enough to cause problems
for other connections.
David Lang
On Mon, 26 May 2014, David P. Reed wrote:
Codel and PIE are excellent first steps... but I don't think they are the best
rrives. Stuart and I showed that at last ietf.
And you get the classic "buffering" song playing
Yep, and if you buffer too much, your "lost packet" is actually still in flight
and eating bandwidth.
David Lang
low latency makes recovery from a loss in an in-order stre
On Tue, 27 May 2014, Dave Taht wrote:
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 4:27 PM, David Lang wrote:
On Tue, 27 May 2014, Dave Taht wrote:
There is a phrase in this thread that is begging to bother me.
"Throughput". Everyone assumes that throughput is a big goal - and it
certainly is - and
is is will look exactly like data sitting in a buffer to the endpoints)
the endpoints don't know the state of all the intermediate connections, so
unless they get feedback (ECN or dropped packets) they have to assume that there
is no congestion.
David Lang
On Wed, 28 May 2014, dpr...
ead, but when congestion
happens, they manage the resulting buffers in a way that's works better for
people (allowing short, fast connections to be fast with only a small impact on
very long connections)
David Lang
The thing you call "pacing" is something quite different. It is d
n the network is using them, they work pretty well, but when
someone isn't (or decides to "cheat"), it becomes very unfair in favor of the
non-complying system.
David Lang
On Thu, 29 May 2014, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
Note: this is all about "how to achieve and sustain the ballist
ace
and power.
The days when it took rooms of Sun boxes to saturate a Gb line are long gone,
you can do that with just a handful of machines.
David Lang
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er, which is about the ugliest power source you can deal with.
David Lang
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n compute the N! possible paths for the data to take, along
with the data from all the other systems to pack them most efficiently into the
avilable paths.
Someone may eventually make something useful out of this, but I think that it's
at best a typical academic ivory tower type of so
it's a link I don't care about, it's easier to delete it
along with other e-mail than to go to G+ and look at it.
Also, remember that people's G+ feeds show a sampling of what other people post,
so some people will miss it if you only post it to G+
David Lang
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On Fri, 18 Jul 2014, David Lang wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014, Jim Reisert AD1C wrote:
"Fastpass is a datacenter network framework that aims for high
utilization with zero queueing. It provides low median and tail
latencies for packets, high data rates between machines, and flexible
ne
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 16:20:28 -0700, David Lang said:
not to mention the scalability issues in trying to get that info to a central
point so that it can compute the N! possible paths for the data to take, along
with the data from all the other
to support that, you can't just test that link, you have to
connect to something beyond that.
David Lang
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_codel by default are M70% as good as a tuned setup,
there's more space to argue that all setups must be tuned, but then the
question is how to they fare against a old, non-BQL, non-fq-codel setup?
if they are considerably better, it may still be worthwhile.
David Lang
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to stay clear of saturating the bandwith
(sacraficing throughput)
David Lang
Starting point: the only observable effect of a network is to lose and
delay data -- i.e. to "attenuate quality" by adding the toxic effects of
time to distributed computations. ΔQ is a *morphism* that relates
saturate it's link, and have it tell the clients that it's overloaded, wait a
random amount of time and retry (or try another location)
cost of bandwidth for this is just something to get someone to pay for (ideally
someone with tons of bandwidth already who won't notice this sort of te
ut, while still being
meaningful in the real world.
which of the two is more useful is something that we would need to get a bunch
of people with different speed lines to report and see which is affected less by
line differences and distance to target.
David Lang
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014, dpr...
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:20:53 -0700, David Lang said:
cost of bandwidth for this is just something to get someone to pay for (ideally
someone with tons of bandwidth already who won't notice this sort of test, even
if there are a few goi
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
Hi David,
On Jul 25, 2014, at 22:57 , David Lang wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014, Wes Felter wrote:
The Netgear stock firmware measures bandwidth on every boot or link up (not
sure which) and I would suggest doing the same for CeroWRT.
Do you
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
Hi David,
On Jul 25, 2014, at 23:03 , David Lang wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:37:34 -0400, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 10:02:53 -0400, "R." said:
Further, this function could be auto-scheduled or made
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 01:26 , David Lang wrote:
But I think that what we are seeing from teh results of the bufferbloat work
is that a properly configured network doesn't degrade badly as it gets busy.
Individual services will degrade as
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 22:21 , David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 25, 2014, at 22:57 , David Lang wrote:
The trouble is that to measure bandwidth, you have to be able to send and
receive a lot of traffic
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 22:39 , David Lang wrote:
by how much tuning is required, I wasn't meaning how frequently to tune, but
how close default settings can come to the performance of a expertly tuned
setup.
Good question.
Ideall
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 23:14 , David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 22:21 , David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 25, 2014, at 22:57 , David Lang wrote
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 22:39 , David Lang wrote:
by how much tuning is required, I wasn't meaning how frequently to tune,
but how close default settings can come to the performance of a expertly
tuned
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 22:53 , David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 01:26 , David Lang wrote:
But I think that what we are seeing from teh results of the bufferbloat work is
that a properly
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
Hi David,
On Jul 26, 2014, at 23:45 , David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 22:39 , David Lang wrote:
by how much tuning is required, I wasn't meaning how frequently to tune,
but how
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 27, 2014, at 00:53 , David Lang wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
Hi David,
On Jul 26, 2014, at 23:45 , David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 26, 2014, at 22:39 , David Lang
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
On Jul 27, 2014, at 00:23 , David Lang wrote:
[...]
I'm not worried about an implementation existing as much as the question of if
it's on the routers/switches by default, and if it isn't, is the service simple
enough to be able t
When link speeds get high enough, do we still need to shape the download for
home users? at some point you stop saturating the line.
the 3800 can easily handle 100mb if it's not trying to shape the traffic, is it
worth seeing if there's any way to squeeze that shaping overhead dow
a UI issue :-)
At Scale, I have up to 5 SSIDs on an AP, each connected to a different VLAN,
plus 3 SSIDs on three of the wired ports (with the two remaining ports being
trunks)
David Lang
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tting this year, even though the routers have been out for a couple
of years)
David Lang
Is there any
particular reason why Cerowrt isn't using ubifs, or squashfs over ubi,
other than purely historical and/or this wasn't the research focus of Cerowrt?
Thanks,
ome defintions) systems that use SD cards for
their OS system. The I/O to the storage is so slow that the saved I/O time is
likely to more than cover the cost of the decompression.
Raspberry Pi systems have had to move to 4G cards as their base because it's
just not possible to have the standa
On Sun, 31 Aug 2014, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 12:05:52AM -0700, David Lang wrote:
One other place this sort of thing is likely to be useful is for Raspberry
Pi and other small (embedded by some defintions) systems that use SD cards
for their OS system. The I/O t
On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Aaron Wood wrote:
What this makes me realize is that I should go instrument the cpu stats
with each of the various operating modes:
* no shaping, anywhere
* egress shaping
* egress and ingress shaping at various limited levels:
* 10Mbps
* 20Mbps
* 50Mbps
* 100Mbp
:1 NAT that doesn't
need connection tracking), you will see much better performance from it.
For the Scale conference, I disable connection tracking and run them as bridges
to a dedicated VLAN per SSID and do the firewalling and NAT upstream from the
APs
David Lang
I took tcp captures
ly enough to be able to
transmit and at the same time receive a weak signal on a nearby frequency with
the same antenna is a HARD thing to do, and the tools to do so tend to be very
finicky (read temperature sensitive)
David Lang
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2014, David Lang wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014, Dave Taht wrote:
It would be very nice to get some TXOPs back:
Is this crazy or not?
http://web.stanford.edu/~skatti/pubs/sigcomm13-fullduplex.pdf
I start of _extremely_ skeptical of the idea. While it would be a
revolutionary
nough.
I can see cases where this would help, but I don't see this as something that
will help in the general case.
David Lang
On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
This is not completely crazy. A couple of grad students and I demonstrated
this type of thing with USRP's i
ting to improve this. From the pastebin
link Dave listed below, they have it up to ~80Mb now
David Lang
On Oct 2, 2014 9:55 AM, "Dave Taht" wrote:
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 12:10:46PM -0400, Weedy wrote:
On 30/03/14 06:29 PM, Dave Taht wrote:
On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 02:24:44PM -0400, We
r
latency related issues.
http://lwn.net/Articles/615238/
David Lang
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of what threads exist is just a table of information. The packets
are all put in a small number of queues to be sent out, and the low-level driver
picks the next packet to send from these queues without caring about what TCP/IP
stream it's from.
David Lang
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014, dpr...@reed.
e time as a nearby station, this makes the distant staton
unreadable because it's signal ends up being represented by too few bits in the
decoder.
David Lang
On Thu, 9 Oct 2014, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
Wideband is far better for scaling than narrowband, though. This may seem
counterintu
are
being talked about on that page. I hope these are not the "official" openwrt
recommendations (and if they are, why are they not on an openwrt page?)
David Lang
On Tue, 9 Dec 2014, Eric Schultz wrote:
Dave,
Thanks for the quick response and I appreciate your passion.
No one here
change the country code means that when hardware does move around the world, it
IS going to be operating on the wrong frequencies, because the user has no way
to change it.
If you can't tell, this topic and how it's mis-interpreted by so many people,
some deliberatly, really ann
n't allow any software updates at all
David Lang
On Tue, 9 Dec 2014, Eric Schultz wrote:
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 14:34:14 -0600
From: Eric Schultz
To: David Lang
Cc: Dave Taht ,
"cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net"
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] New FCC requirements
wonder if it would be useful to use something like this for traffic
classification for queue selection, traffic throttling, etc?
David Lang
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oaded into the kernel, I'm
hoping that the performance would be on the same order as C code (even though
it's interpreted by the eBPF engine), so it wouldn't have the large performance
hit that we have with the current throttling code for example.
David Lang
On Thu, 11 Dec 2014, D
This is fixed point to fixed point wireless. Suitable to replace the last-mile
ISP, but not something that will talk to your laptop.
David Lang
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014, Dave Taht wrote:
Maybe we don't have to fix wifi after all.
-- Forwarded message --
From: "Ubiquit
rice, it's that it's a highly directional point-to-point
setup, not something that allows more than two devices to talk at once.
David Lang
On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 1:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 10:41:03 -0800, Dave Taht said:
*15.9 bps/Hz* Spectral Efficiency.
If they
direction.
As conditions degrade, the speed will slow.
The top speed is using 1024-QAM modulation, it will then fall back to 256-QAM
(which is the top that 802.11ac will use), and then to 64-QAM (which is the top
of 802.11n)
This has far more in common with old fashioned microwave links than Wi
e of
both directions at once.
David Lang
keep in mind that the reason the 2.4 and 5.8 ISM bands
are where they are is specifically because of the ready
absorption of RF at those frequencies. the propagation
is *intended* to be problematic. that said, with
good-enough antennas mounted with
there is a correlation between frequency and distance with commonly available
equipment that is easy to mistake for causation.
David Lang
Please don't repeat nonsense.
On Dec 20, 2014, Mike O'Dell wrote:
15.9bps/Hz is unlikely to be using simple phase encoding
that sounds m
On Tue, 6 Jan 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:26 AM, wrote:
GoGo does not need to run “Man in the Middle Attacks” on YouTube
re: http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?p=174
I amplified via g+ and mentioned to slashdot.
(http://slashdot.org/submission/4107907/gogo-airline-network-bl
with
more APs operating at lower power levels so that you have fewer people talking
to each one.
David Lang
So when I scan I do see a lot of intermittent probes or wifi traffic
from other things but nothing cronic. I haven't been able to run a scan when
it all goes to hell though.
Wi
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015, Richard Smith wrote:
On 01/21/2015 06:58 PM, David Lang wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015, Richard Smith wrote:
Thanks for the response. First I want to say that I'm sensitive to the fact
that this is the Cerowrt-devel list and not the small business WiFi help
list
o this happened a lot at your SCALE setups?
two years ago we had a problem with the APs dropping off, but last year
everything worked wonderfully.
David Lang
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:19pm, "Richard Smith"
said:
On 01/22/2015 04:18 AM, David Lang wrote:
>> Recently, we picked up the 11th floor as well and moved many people up
>> there. I got a 3rd AP (another TP-Link AC175
t for your wifi?
I'm running OpenWRT on the APs but haven't done anything in particular to
activate it. I'll check what we have on the firewall (a fairly up to day Debian
build)
What's the best way to monitor the queues?
David Lang
_
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015, David Lang wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
I am of course interested in how fq_codel performs on your ISP link, and
are you planning on running it for your wifi?
I'm running OpenWRT on the APs but haven't done anything in particular to
activat
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
I want to make clear that I support dlang's design in the abstract... and
am just arguing because it is a slow day.
I welcome challenges to the design, it's how I improve things :-)
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, David Lang wrote:
On S
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
Disagree. See below.
On Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:35pm, "David Lang" said:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
> A side comment, meant to discourage continuing to bridge rather than route.
>
> There's no rea
especially when roaming is going on.
well, the fact that doing it at the ethernet layer rather than the IP layer
avoids the need to change your software, that's a significant win.
Other than 'tradition' or "layering violation', why is it any better to solve
this at the I
onably priced
switches that can do anything smarter than plain spanning tree when connected
through multiple paths (I'd love to learn otherwise)
David Lang
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 6:43 PM, David Lang wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
To your roaming point, yes this is certainly one place where migrating
bridged vms across machines breaks down, and yet more and more vm
layers are doing it. I
we
invested in buying a bunch of HP switches a couple years ago)
David Lang
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needs to be implemented and be better in practice
as well.
David Lang
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 18:09:59 -0800, David Lang said:
The difference is that the switches and their protocols have been designed from
the beginning for this scale of operation, IP routing protocols are designed for
much fewer endpoints to
it doesn't get mixed in with tracking Internet routes as well.
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote:
And having every /48 MAC address in your entterprise tracked is cheaper?
On Sunday, January 25, 2015 11:44pm, "David Lang" said:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, valdis.kletni.
tion that the network has changed
and connect again, or the connections end up timing out. Right??
David Lang
On Sunday, January 25, 2015 10:45pm, "Dave Taht" said:
On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 7:17 PM, wrote:
> Looking up an address in a routing table is o(1) if the routing tab
t I can't currently
duplicate with opensource tools. But as Avery says, they are optimizations, not
something required for successful operation. It would be nice to get the
assisted roaming portion available. But it's not required.
David Lang
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is at higher-end hotels that
implemented network service early and outsourced the job. Some of them are now
updating/replacing that service and getting much better. But between updates,
the service is always going to degrade under increased use.
David Lang
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uld help identify gaps in
coverage. If it can identify cases where users go from having coverage to poor
connectivity to having coverage, we can manually investigate to see where in the
building that is and see what we can do to fix it.
David Lang
We've also tried to raise some interes
what sort of price tag?
David Lang
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015, Pete Doyle wrote:
Hi all,
Just saw this announced, thought I'd pass it on as a possible WNDR
replacement:
https://www.eero.com/
Specs:
- 1.0 GHz dual core processor (ARM, probably)
- 512MB RAM
- 1GB Flash
- 2x Gigabit ethernet
-
; toggle to have it phone home with
this data.
thoughts?
David Lang
On Sat, 7 Feb 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 8:42 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 15:27:32 +1300, Dave Taht said:
so, how's everybody's uptime?
Sitting at 27 days due to a power blip.
I do stron
esses we've seen and a breakdown into the different
vendor prefixes. If there's a way to get the data, I can support it.
If there are fq_codel stats that people would find interesting in this
environment, I can gather those as well (both on the APs and on the Debian based
when you say "fairly frequently", is per minute reasonable?
David Lang
On Sun, 8 Feb 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
I am very interested in per sta stats - rc_stats - captured fairly
frequently - timestamped and kept on per mac order..
cat /sys/kernel/debug/ieee80211/phy*/netdev:
rching, but since we install this
in 10 days and are live in 11 (with all prep work having to work around my day
job), I'm going to need pretty direct pointers on eithre stats to gather,
patches to apply, or particular software packages to include and at least strong
hints on any requi
liminate the privacy concerns, but I'm sure we can deal with the remainder on a
case-by-case basis, possibly with some written agreement)
I hope you recover well. I want though that about a month ago.
David Lang
On Sun, 8 Feb 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
as for more detailed info, doing a few boxes
On Sun, 8 Feb 2015, Dave Taht wrote:
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 3:48 PM, David Lang wrote:
when you say "fairly frequently", is per minute reasonable?
every 10 sec is easier to deal with. note the cat method I showed is
inefficient.
I had been thinking in terms of feeding them to
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