Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Random thought - reactions?

2017-12-17 Thread dpreed
Good point about separating concerns. I would suggest that home router to POP encryption would satisfy the first. End to end encryption can be done at the endpoints on, as it should be. The home router to POP link need not be tappable for the NSA for it to spy. It is not end to end. Sent from

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Random thought - reactions?

2017-12-15 Thread dpreed
Thanks for this. I hadn't seen it yet. On Friday, December 15, 2017 2:32pm, "tapper" said: > Motherboard & VICE Are Building a Community Internet Network > https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/j5djd7/motherboard-and-vice-are-building-a-community-internet-network-to-protect-net-neutrali

[Cerowrt-devel] Random thought - reactions?

2017-12-15 Thread dpreed
The disaster in the FCC's move to reverse the Open Internet Order will probably continue. As some of you may know, but most probably don't, I have a somewhat nuanced view of the best way to preserve what is called network neutrality. That's because I have a precise definition of what the Inte

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DC behaviors today

2017-12-13 Thread dpreed
Just to be clear, I have built and operated a whole range of network platforms, as well as diagnosing problems and planning deployments of systems that include digital packet delivery in real contexts where cost and performance matter, for nearly 40 years now. So this isn't only some kind of ra

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DC behaviors today

2017-12-12 Thread dpreed
Luca's point tends to be correct - variable latency destroys the stability of flow control loops, which destroys throughput, even when there is sufficient capacity to handle the load. This is an indirect result of Little's Lemma (which is strictly true only for Poisson arrival, but almost any

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DC behaviors today

2017-12-04 Thread dpreed
I suggest we stop talking about throughput, which has been the mistaken idea about networking for 30-40 years. Almost all networking ends up being about end-to-end response time in a multiplexed system. Or put another way: "It's the Latency, Stupid". I get (and have come to expect) 27 msec

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] dnsmasq CVEs

2017-10-09 Thread dpreed
Sooner or later it dawns on all security professionals that the idea of a "provably secure system" is a pipedream. Same with systems designers working on fault tolerance who are tasked with making their systems "NonStop" as the Tandem claim used to go. What we see here in most of the examples

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] dnsmasq CVEs

2017-10-07 Thread dpreed
No disagreement here. I saw a wonderful discussion recently by a researcher at Mentor Graphics about 2 things: VLSI design hacking and low level interconnect hacking. Things we call "hardware" and just assume are designed securely. They are not. The hardware designers at the chip and boa

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] solar wifi ap designs?

2017-06-05 Thread dpreed
It doesn't jump to mind, but a radio carrying bits near the edge probably won't be used near capacity most of the 24 hours it is operating. Just as Iridium was designed to quiesce most of its electronics on the dark side of the earth, extending its battery life, you can probably assume that a ra

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] solar wifi ap designs?

2017-06-05 Thread dpreed
"Deep discharge" batteries work in LEO satellites for such applications. But they are extraordinarily expensive, because the designs are specialized, and that use case doesn't have the 2-3 day solar outage problem. You are not going to put a good enough system for an AP up in a tree. Maybe on a

[Cerowrt-devel] Making association faster

2017-01-24 Thread dpreed
https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.02528 Interesting approach. Nice analysis. Needs to be in OpenWRT? ___ Cerowrt-devel mailing list Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: License File for Open Source Repositories

2016-12-23 Thread dpreed
My understanding is that it is already settled case law that contributed code to a GPL licensed projects implicitly grants a perpetual, royalty free license to use any applicable patent the author uses in the code. Of course there is no case law regarding patent s in other licenses, in particul

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Intel latency issue

2016-12-04 Thread dpreed
The language used in the article seems confused. However, since firmware sometimes means software (the OS kernel, for example) and this is "lag under load", it's barely possible that this is bufferbloat of a sort, it seems. Would we be surprised? 200 ms. can also be due to interrupt mishandling

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] anybody know anything about the armada 3700?

2016-10-06 Thread dpreed
Reading between the lines on the datasheet, the "packet processor" doesn't look to be anything fancy or problematic. It contains: DMA - meaning that it will transfer into and out of the Tx and Rx rings in RAM automatically. Every NIC does DMA at the packet level. PTP (IEEE1588) essentially thi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] BBR congestion control algorithm for TCP innet-next

2016-09-21 Thread dpreed
On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:00pm, "Mikael Abrahamsson" said: > Yes, I guess people who have been staring at traffic graphs and Netflow > collector system output for 10-15 years have no insight into what and how > much traffic is going where. That's exactly what I am saying. __

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] BBR congestion control algorithm for TCP innet-next

2016-09-21 Thread dpreed
Don't want to dwell on this, but Sandvine is not an unbiased source. And it is apparently the *only* source - and 50% is a LOT. Even Trump and Clinton don't have 50% of the electorate each. :-) Does Sandvine have the resources to examine a true sample of all Internet traffic? Maybe the NSA d

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] BBR congestion control algorithm for TCP innet-next

2016-09-21 Thread dpreed
On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 3:32am, "Alan Jenkins" said: > On 20/09/16 21:27, dpr...@reed.com wrote: > I don't think the source is hard to identify. It's Sandvine press > releases. That's what the periodic stories on Ars Technica are always > derived from. > > https://www.sandvine.com/pr

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] BBR congestion control algorithm for TCP innet-next

2016-09-21 Thread dpreed
bittorrent is a kind of "FTP" rather than semi-isochornous (i.e. rate-bounded) "TV" in my personal classification. As I'm sure you know, the two are quite different in their effects on congestion and their handling of congestion. The idea that bittorrent dominated the Internet traffic volume at

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] BBR congestion control algorithm for TCP innet-next

2016-09-20 Thread dpreed
I constantly see the claim that >50% of transmitted data on the Internet are streaming TV. However, the source seems to be as hard to nail down as the original claim that >50% of Internet traffic was pirated music being sent over bittorrent. You recently repeated that statistic as if it were a

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] BBR congestion control algorithm for TCP innet-next

2016-09-17 Thread dpreed
The assumption that each flow on a path has a minimum, stable RTT fails in wireless and multi path networks. However, it's worth remembering two things: buffering above a certain level is never an improvement, and flows through any shared router come and go quite frequently on the real Inter

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Making AQM harder...

2016-08-12 Thread dpreed
Maybe we all need to buy some Sandvine devices for our homes that detect IW10 and forge TCP RSTs? Or maybe Ellacoya will develop one for consumers? That's what Comcast did when bufferbloat was killing their gear on upload, as I'm sure we all remember. Except the FCC is not going to ask me to t

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] not exactly the most positive outcome

2016-07-26 Thread dpreed
It's a terrible outcome. However, there is literally no significant support for the alternative, either from a policy basis or from entrepreneurial folks. N-O-N-E. I am biased towards the entrepreneurial side, but have been fighting this on the policy side as well in one form or another since

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] more well funded attempts showing market demandfor better wifi

2016-06-24 Thread dpreed
Without custom silicon, doing what I was talking about would involve non standard MAC power management, which would require all devices to agree. David Lang's explanation was the essence of what I meant. the transmission from access point on multiple channels is just digital addition if the DACs

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] more well funded attempts showing market demand for better wifi

2016-06-23 Thread dpreed
On Thursday, June 23, 2016 4:52pm, "David Lang" said: > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016, dpr...@reed.com wrote: > >> The actual issues of transmitting on multiple channels at the same time are >> quite minor if you do the work in the digital domain (pre-DAC). You just >> need >> a higher sampling rate

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] more well funded attempts showing market demand for better wifi

2016-06-23 Thread dpreed
The actual issues of transmitting on multiple channels at the same time are quite minor if you do the work in the digital domain (pre-DAC). You just need a higher sampling rate in the DAC and add the two signals together (and use a wideband filter that covers all the channels). No RF problem.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] trying to make sense of what switch vendors say wrt buffer bloat

2016-06-10 Thread dpreed
Just today I found out that a datacenter my company's engineering group is expanding into is putting us on Arista 7050's. And our very preliminary tests of our systems there is showiung what seems to be a latency problem under load. I can't get in the way of the deployment process, but it's i

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] trying to make sense of what switch vendors say wrt buffer bloat

2016-06-06 Thread dpreed
Even better, it would be fun to get access to an Arista switch and some high performance TCP sources and sinks, and demonstrate extreme bufferbloat compared to a small-buffer switch. Just a demo, not a simulation full of assumptions and guesses. RRUL, basically. On Monday, June 6, 2016 1

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] trying to make sense of what switch vendors say wrt buffer bloat

2016-06-06 Thread dpreed
So did anyone write a response debunking their paper? Their NS-2 simulation is most likely the erroneous part of their analysis - the white paper would not pass a review by qualified referees because there is no way to check their results and some of what they say beggars belief. Bechtolshe

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Babel-users] perverse powersave bug with sta/ap mode

2016-04-28 Thread dpreed
Discovery is a special case, that is not quite multicast. Discovery is "noticing". A node wishing to be discovered must be noticed by one (or maybe more) already existent stations in a group (groups are noticed by any member being noticed by a member of another group). So you don't need any fa

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] perverse powersave bug with sta/ap mode

2016-04-28 Thread dpreed
Interesting stuff. A deeper problem with WiFi-type protocols is that the very idea of "multicast" on the PHY level (air interface) is flawed, based on a model of propagation that assumes that every station can be easily addressed simultaneously, at the same bitrate, etc. Multicast is seductive

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [bufferbloat-fcc-discuss] arstechnica confirmstp-link router lockdown

2016-03-14 Thread dpreed
There are many processor architectures that have different instruction memories for different functional units. SoCs often have multiple functional units on the same die. For radios that allows for a pipeline. You can limit what an EPROM will accept with a crypto signature. This is common stu

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [bufferbloat-fcc-discuss] [Make-wifi-fast] arstechnica confirmstp-link router lockdown

2016-03-14 Thread dpreed
Well, the answer is basically no on there being a current chip that is only concerned with the PHY layer. Because chip count is a crucial part of system cost, years ago it became the practice to put the PHY and MAC, and now the protocol processing too, on the same mixed-signal chip. For example

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [bufferbloat-fcc-discuss] arstechnica confirmstp-link router lockdown

2016-03-14 Thread dpreed
As a software guy who can solder SMT chips and design PCBs, and a licensed amateur radio operator, let me add a couple observations. The FCCs concern is not to lock up all software on routers. All they call for is that at certification time and in users hands, radio emissions are restricted t

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Communicating better about bloat/openwrt/our issues over the web

2016-03-07 Thread dpreed
Regarding OpenWRT, one should note that the major tech industry funded think-tank in DC (ITIF) generally is unfriendly to the FCC getting involved in security and privacy. Heres a report they just issued: https://itif.org/publications/2016/03/01/broadband-privacy-folly-sector-specific-rules The

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] hardware from hell

2016-03-05 Thread dpreed
My Jetway NU93-2930 board is a NUC with dual Ethernet. It's a bare board, but I made my own case quickly enough out of acrylic sheet using my bandsaw and glue. Works fine. Takes a wall wart power supply as long as it delivers between 12 V and 36 V. I recommend it highly. Jetway probably sell

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] odroid C1+ status

2016-03-05 Thread dpreed
I have a Banana Pi, but I can't imagine why it would be useful as a router. Why would Comcast even bother? A Raspberry Pi 3 would be better, and far more available. (though I think the slow Ethernet port and low end WiFi on the Raspberry Pi 3 would make it sort of marginal, it's certainly quite

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] archer c7v2 gets third party unupgradable firmware

2016-02-15 Thread dpreed
I'm giving a talk in a couple months at a very high level, about "what's at stake" as we move into the era of "5G" (for lack of a better word, this is what the media all think is happening, and what has the ear of the FCC). I'd love to have a list of brands and models that have "gone dark" to se

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] better service discovery

2016-01-26 Thread dpreed
There's a paper from Cambridge University that focuses on evaluating Raft. In particular they have some key findings about performance tuning, plus discovering some potential livelocks. I'm interested in Consul on a planet-wide scale - not sure it scales effectively but if it or something like

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] first 802.11ad appearance

2016-01-20 Thread dpreed
I'm trying to imagine what its intended market is. Open factory/warehouse floor networking? The atmospheric absorbtion of that band is a problem, since oxygen's absorption peak is 60 GHz. The ability to use multipath constructively due to the number of antennas (BLAST style MIMO) may help.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] FCC: We aren’t banning DD-WRT on Wi-Fi routers

2015-11-12 Thread dpreed
It's a start. (I'm optimistic that there is room to move the ball farther and that the FCC folks are willing to listen, though they didn't directly address concerns about the security closed, buggy quality of the factory software as being important and in the public interest). On Thursday, No

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] omnia turris on indigogo

2015-11-12 Thread dpreed
The $1K prototype looks a little different (more antennae, for sure, in the picture). What driver, what chip does the wifi? How open is the hardware design? (binary blobs?) Can one improve aspects of the MAC protocol in open source? Definitely interesting. I might be convinced to go for the pr

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Editorial questions for response to the FCC

2015-10-02 Thread dpreed
This is good. Regarding my concern about asking for mandated FCC-centered control - we need less of that. It establishes a bad precedent for the means of "protecting the airwaves". (or reinforces a precedent that must be changed soon - of establishing de-facto, anti-innovation monopolies that

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-08 Thread dpreed
David - I find it interesting that you think I am an idiot. I design waveforms for radios, and am, among other things, a fully trained electrical engineer with deep understanding of information theory, EM waves, propagation, etc. as well as an Amateur Radio builder focused on building experime

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-07 Thread dpreed
On Friday, August 7, 2015 4:03pm, "David Lang" said: > > Wifi is the only place I know of where the transmit bit rate is going to vary > depending on the next hop address. This is an interesting core issue. The question is whether additional queueing helps or hurts this, and whether the M

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-04 Thread dpreed
On Monday, August 3, 2015 8:13pm, "David Lang" said: > > That requires central coordination of the stations. Something we don't have in > wifi. Wifi lives and dies with 'listen for a gap, try transmitting, and if you > collide, backoff a random period' Central coordination is not the only for

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-03 Thread dpreed
I design and build physical layer radio hardware (using SDR reception and transmission in the 5 GHz and 10 GHz Amateur radio bands). Fairness is easy in a MAC. 1 usec. is 1,000 linear feet. If the next station knows when its turn is, it can start transmitting within a couple of microseconds

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-03 Thread dpreed
It's not infeasible to make queues shorter. In any case, the throughput of a link does not increase above the point where there is always one packet ready to go by the time the currently outgoing packet is completed. It physically cannot do better than that. If hardware designers can't creat

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-07-31 Thread dpreed
Hardware people tend to think about queues way too much in general. Queues should be almost never occupied. That causes the highest throughput possible. And getting there is simple: push queueing back to the source. The average queue length into a shared medium should be as close to zero as

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wrt1900ac v1 vs v2

2015-07-07 Thread dpreed
[ https://community.linksys.com/t5/Wireless-Routers/WRT1900AC-V2/td-p/940588 ]( https://community.linksys.com/t5/Wireless-Routers/WRT1900AC-V2/td-p/940588 ) Shows a v2 with 512M of memory, actually purchased. I would think that the 512 is definitely useful. On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 2:09am

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] performance numbers from WRT1200AC (Re: Latest build test - new sqm-scripts seem to work; "cake overhead 40" didn't)

2015-07-02 Thread dpreed
Having not bought a 1200ac yet, I was wondering if I should splurge for the 1900ac v2 (which has lots of memory unlike the 1900ac v1). Any thoughts on the compatibility of this with the 1200ac? Current plans are to deploy Supermicro Mini ITX A1SRI-2558F-O Quad Core (Rangely) as my externally

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DSL Reports Speed Test results (WNDR3800, SQM=fc_codel)

2015-07-02 Thread dpreed
Wonderful! On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 9:46pm, "Jim Reisert AD1C" said: > Model: NETGEAR WNDR3800 > Firmware Version: OpenWrt Chaos Calmer r46069 / LuCI Master > (git-15.168.50780-bae48b6) > > Comcast cable modem, 60 Mbps down/6 Mbps up (nominal) > > Motorola SB6141 > Hardware Version: 7.0

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Build instructions for regular OpenWRT with Ceropackages

2015-07-01 Thread dpreed
Mikael, very very helpful, thanks. I now understand what you are trying to prove/test in your experiments, but there is definitely a need for cake when the dominant use is hi-bitrate WiFi (AC1900) talking to one or more 1 GigE wired paths. And hi bitrate WiFi itself has significantly variabl

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Build instructions for regular OpenWRT with Ceropackages

2015-06-30 Thread dpreed
What happens if the SoC ports aren't saturated, but the link is GigE? That is, suppose this is an access link to a GigE home or office LAN with wired servers? On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 9:58am, "Mikael Abrahamsson" said: > On Mon, 29 Jun 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote: > > > I would love to t

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] performance numbers from WRT1200AC (Re: Latest build test - new sqm-scripts seem to work; "cake overhead 40" didn't)

2015-06-29 Thread dpreed
I would love to try out cake in my environment. However, as a non-combatant, it would be nice to have an instruction sheet on how to set the latest version up, and what hardware it works best on (WRT1200AC?). Obviously this is a work in progress, so that will change, but it would be nice to h

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] heisenbug: dslreports 16 flow test vs cablemodems

2015-05-18 Thread dpreed
I'm curious as to why one would need low priority class if you were using fq_codel? Are the LEDBAT flows indistinguishable? Is there no congestion signalling (no drops, no ECN)? The main reason I ask is that end-to-end flows should share capacity well enough without magical and rarely impleme

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] heisenbug: dslreports 16 flow test vs cablemodems

2015-05-17 Thread dpreed
What's your definition of 802.11 performing well? Just curious. Maximizing throughput at all costs or maintaing minimal latency for multiple users sharing an access point? Of course, if all you are doing is trying to do point-to-point outdoor links using 802.11 gear, the issue is different -

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] better business bufferbloat monitoring tools?

2015-05-14 Thread dpreed
Tools, tools, tools. Make it trivially easy to capture packets in the home (don't require cerowrt, for obvious reasons). For example, an iPhone app that does a tcpdump and sends it to us would be fantastic to diagnose "make wifi fast" issues and also bufferbloat issues. Give feedback that is

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Suggestions/advice for captive portal on gw00/gw10?

2015-04-09 Thread dpreed
DOn't want to get entangled in the political debate, but just a thought: If you track what MAC addrs use what upstream capacity, you could have data on which to judge who is pushing your usage over any caps you happen to have. Having some data (not general fears or propaganda generated by those

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-19 Thread dpreed
I do think engineers operating networks get it, and that Comcast's engineers really get it, as I clarified in my followup note. The issue is indeed prioritization of investment, engineering resources and management attention. The teams at Comcast in the engineering side have been the leaders in

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-19 Thread dpreed
I'll look up the quote, when I get home from California, in my email archives. It may have been private email from Richard Woundy (an engineering SVP at Comcast who is the person who drove the CableLabs effort forward, working with Jim Gettys - doing the in-house experiments...). To be clear, I

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-19 Thread dpreed
How many years has it been since Comcast said they were going to fix bufferbloat in their network within a year? And LTE operators haven't even started. THat's a sign that the two dominant sectors of "Internet Access" business are refusing to support quality Internet service. (the old saying ab

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Dave's wishlist [was: Source-specific routing merged]

2015-03-17 Thread dpreed
I agree wholeheartedly with your point, David. One other clarifying point (I'm not trying to be pedantic, here, but it may sound that way): Reliability is not the same as Availability. The two are quite different. Bufferbloat is pretty much an "availability" issue, not a reliability issue.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] great interview on the scale conference wifi successes

2015-03-12 Thread dpreed
On Thursday, March 12, 2015 11:31am, "Richard Smith" said: > On 03/10/2015 05:12 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > >>> >>> This year I deployed 53 APs. I'll make an updated map showing where they >>> were deployed. >> >> So far as I know all the APs were fq-codeled, but the firewall/gw was >> not. > > How

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] the cerowrt easter egg

2015-03-04 Thread dpreed
+1 On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 3:19pm, "Dave Taht" said: > As you can see over the last month I have been laughing in despair > about the futility we seem to face in getting solutions for > bufferbloat "out there", ever since the streamboost and gogo-in-flight > data came in. > > So it occurs

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful"

2015-03-04 Thread dpreed
It's a heavy burden to place on ICMP ping to say that it should tell you about all aspects of its path through all the networks between source and destination. On the other hand, I'll suggest that Fred's point - treat ICMP Ping like any other IP datagram with the same header options is the essen

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful"

2015-03-02 Thread dpreed
On my own web server (running nginx) I provide an HTTP 1.1 accessible statistics service. It returns a single JSON structure with the underlying packet statistics for the server and the current connection. Since this packet is inserted into the HTTP 1.1 stream upon request, it provides both the

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Bufferbloat and the policy debate on packet loss in nanog

2015-03-02 Thread dpreed
bravo! On Sunday, March 1, 2015 6:22pm, "Dave Taht" said: > There's nothing new here, but it was a nice rant to get out of my system: > > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.operators.nanog/128201 > > Of late, I have been taking a page from Linus Torvalds' playbook, in > realizing that "on

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Lost access to Web GUI

2015-02-25 Thread dpreed
Dave - I understand the rationale, but the real issue here is with the printers, etc. Their security model is completely inappropriate - even WITHIN a home network... depending on peripheral protection doesn't work anywhere very well. It's so easy to break into someone's home net... either by

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Two d-link products tested for bloat...

2015-02-20 Thread dpreed
+1 for this idea. It really worked for Anand's and Tom's - their reviews caught fire and got followed so much that they could become profitable businesses from the ads. Craigslist style business model, funding both reviewing and CeroWRT promotion activities would be the logical thing. And I

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] MTU question

2015-02-13 Thread dpreed
Leaving stuff in a buffer in hopes that more will arrive is a terrible idea, proven over and over. However, if you already have a packet waiting to go out, combining packets after that with each other does create some benefit at no cost (reducing negotiation time). Coupled with something lik

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Throughput regression with `tcp: refine TSO autosizing`

2015-02-02 Thread dpreed
On Sunday, February 1, 2015 11:21pm, "Avery Pennarun" said: > On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > > Just to clarify, managing queueing in a single access point WiFi network is > > only a small part of the problem of fixing the rapidly degrading performance > > of WiFi based systems. >

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Throughput regression with `tcp: refine TSO autosizing`

2015-02-01 Thread dpreed
Just to clarify, managing queueing in a single access point WiFi network is only a small part of the problem of fixing the rapidly degrading performance of WiFi based systems. Similarly, mesh routing is only a small part of the problem with the scalability of cooperative meshes based on the Wi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Throughput regression with `tcp: refine TSO autosizing`

2015-01-31 Thread dpreed
I think we need to create an Internet focused 802.11 working group that would be to the "OS wireless designers and IEEE 802.11 standards groups" as the WHATML group was to W3C. W3C was clueless about the real world at the point WHATML was created. And WHATML was a "revenge of the real" again

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-26 Thread dpreed
And having every /48 MAC address in your entterprise tracked is cheaper? On Sunday, January 25, 2015 11:44pm, "David Lang" said: > On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 18:09:59 -0800, David Lang said: > >> The difference is that the switches and thei

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-26 Thread dpreed
Well, we all may want to agree to disagree. I don't buy the argument that hash tables are slow compared to the TCAMs - and even if cache misses happened, a hash table is still o(1) - you look at exactly one memory address on the average in a hash table - that's the point of it. The constant f

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-25 Thread dpreed
Looking up an address in a routing table is o(1) if the routing table is a hash table. That's much more efficient than a TCAM. My simple example just requires a delete/insert at each node's route lookup table. My point was about collections of WLAN's bridged together. Look at what happens

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-25 Thread dpreed
If you are using Ethernet bridging, your Ethernet switches are doing exactly this at the Ethernet layer... they have large tables of MAC addresses that are known throughout the network, and for each MAC address in the Enterprise, they have the next hop destination. So IP routing tables, one I

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-25 Thread dpreed
Disagree. See below. On Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:35pm, "David Lang" said: > On Sat, 24 Jan 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote: > > A side comment, meant to discourage continuing to bridge rather than route. > > > > There's no reason that the AP's cannot have different IP addresses, but a > > c

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Nyt missed bloat on airplane WiFi entirely

2015-01-24 Thread dpreed
Yeah. Someone should send them to my blog post. On Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:16pm, "Dave Taht" said: [ http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/style/the-sorry-state-of-in-flight-wi-fi.html?_r=2&referrer= ]( http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/style/the-sorry-state-of-in-flight-wi-fi.ht

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-24 Thread dpreed
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:19pm, "Richard Smith" said: > On 01/22/2015 04:18 AM, David Lang wrote: > > >> Recently, we picked up the 11th floor as well and moved many people up > >> there. I got a 3rd AP (another TP-Link AC1750) and set that one up on > >> a free channel with a differen

[Cerowrt-devel] SInce I mentioned this crew's work in a post, I don't want anyone to be surprised.

2015-01-06 Thread dpreed
[ GoGo does not need to run “Man in the Middle Attacks” on YouTube ]( http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?p=174 )___ Cerowrt-devel mailing list Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Cerowrt-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 24

2014-12-23 Thread dpreed
Typo below - dry air attenuation is 0.0075 dB/kM from the chart. My leading "1" was a mistake - so the water vapor adds 0.002/0.0075 = 27% to the very small attenuation caused by air, at this frequency. On Monday, December 22, 2014 9:16pm, dpr...@reed.com said: Hi Sebastian - So reading

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Cerowrt-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 24

2014-12-22 Thread dpreed
Hi Sebastian - So reading this chart, which is consistent with my reference materials: At 6 GHz, I see additional attenuation of water vapor being -0.002 db/kM, additional to the dry air attenuation of 10.0075 dB/kM already due to the atmosphere, at 5.8 GHz. So at 5 kM (>1 mile in English

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] tinc vpn: adding dscp passthrough (priorityinherit), ecn, and fq_codel support

2014-12-03 Thread dpreed
Awesome start on the issue, in your note, Dave. Tor needs to change for several reasons - not that it isn't great, but with IPv6 and other things coming on line, plus the understanding of fq_codel's rationale, plus ... - the world can do much better. Same with VPNs. I hope we can set our si

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] SQM: tracking some diffserv related internet drafts better

2014-11-13 Thread dpreed
The IETF used to require rough consensus and *working code*. The latter seems to be out of fashion - especially with a zillion code points for which no working code has been produced, and worse yet, no real world testing has demonstrated any value whatsoever. It's also true that almost no ac

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Torrents are too fast

2014-11-03 Thread dpreed
In other words, rather than share the capacity of the link "fairly" among flows (as TCP would if you eliminated excess buffer-bloat), you want to impose control on an endpoint from the middle? This seems counterproductive... what happens when the IP address changes, new services arise, and mo

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bulk packet transmission

2014-10-15 Thread dpreed
I just read the first page of the paper so far, but it sounds like it is heading in a good direction. It would be interesting to apply also to home access-point/switches, especially since they are now pushing 1 Gb/sec over the air. I will put it on my very interesting stack. On Wednesday

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bulk packet transmission

2014-10-10 Thread dpreed
The best approach to dealing with "locking overhead" is to stop thinking that if locks are good, more locking (finer grained locking) is better. OS designers (and Linux designers in particular) are still putting in way too much locking. I deal with this in my day job (we support systems with

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wifi over narrow channels

2014-10-09 Thread dpreed
Wideband is far better for scaling than narrowband, though. This may seem counterintuitive, but narrowband systems are extremely inefficient. They appeal to 0/1 thinking intuitively, but in actual fact the wider the bandwidth the more sharing and the more scaling is possible (and not be "balk

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] full duplex wifi?

2014-09-18 Thread dpreed
This is not completely crazy. A couple of grad students and I demonstrated this type of thing with USRP's in my lab at MIT. The problem you, David Lang, refer to is basically the key thing to deal with, but the physics and information theory issues can be dealt with. There's significant work

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
The speedof.me API probably can be used directly as the measurement of download and upload - you can create a competing download or upload in Javascript using a WebWorker talking to another server that supports the websocket API to force buffer overflow. (sort of poor man's RRUL). The speedo

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
Among friends of mine, we can publicize this widely. But those friends probably would like to see how the measurement would work. On Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:13pm, "Rich Brown" said: > ___ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
I will sign. It would be better if we had an actual demonstration of how to implement a speedtest improvement. On Thursday, September 11, 2014 12:03pm, "Dave Taht" said: > The theme of networks being "engineered for speedtest" has been a > common thread in nearly every conversation I've

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules?

2014-09-10 Thread dpreed
I'm confused SFP is not SFP+. SFP carries at most 4.25 Gb/sec. SFP+ works at >10 Gb/sec. So, it's not clear that the MikroTik is very useful in a 10 Gig world. It's not immediately clear but VERY likely, that this is an "edge switch" that is intended for collapsing the GigE copper

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules?

2014-09-09 Thread dpreed
I agree with you if you have to install Cat6a and Cat7 structured wiring in a building! What a nightmare trying to find contractors who can meet spec on junction boxes, etc. and do the right testing. Every connector on the path is problematic. But for "casual" home networking use or research

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules?

2014-09-06 Thread dpreed
I have been happy with the PicoPSU power supplies which are tiny ATX PSU's that go up to 160 W. They take 12V input, which can be supplied by an external brick or a small 12V power supply of the sort used to supply power to lighting circuits (I use a Meanwell NES-350-12 to power 3 boards with i

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] still trying to find hardware for the next generation worth hacking on

2014-08-22 Thread dpreed
Yes. On Friday, August 22, 2014 11:12am, "William Katsak" said: On the FWMB-7950? Are you referring to the bypass switch? -Bill On Aug 22, 2014, at 10:19 AM, David P. Reed <[ dpr...@reed.com ]( mailto:dpr...@reed.com )> wrote: You missed the on board switch which is a major differentia

[Cerowrt-devel] Congratulations

2014-08-20 Thread dpreed
I just read Vint Cerf's latest column in IEEE Internet Computing (October 2014), paper edition that arrived in the mail. Entitled "Bufferbloat and other Internet challenges", it highlights Jim Gettys, Dave Taht, Eric Dumazet, Codel/FQ_code, the CeroWRT/OpenWRT team, etc. pointing out that "T

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] still trying to find hardware for the next generation worth hacking on

2014-08-17 Thread dpreed
[ http://www.habeyusa.com/products/fwmb-7950-rangeley-network-communication-board/ ]( http://www.habeyusa.com/products/fwmb-7950-rangeley-network-communication-board/ ) looks intriguing. Probably a bit pricey, but has lots of advantages. There's another smaller one that might do: [ http:

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Check out www.speedof.me - no Flash

2014-07-25 Thread dpreed
I think what is being discussed is "how to measure the quality of one endpoint's experience of the entire Internet over all time or over a specific interval of time". Yet the systems that are built on top of the Internet transport do not have any kind of uniform dependence on the underlying t

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