cz>
Matej Cepl wrote on Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:48:17 +0100:
> I would have a question about Ubuntu LTS. What are your
> experience with it?
Folks, can you please move this discussion off-list? Thanks.
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany
Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.co
On 2008-12-04, 00:42 GMT, Christopher Chan wrote:
> What would you pick? Learn a few new commands/configuration
> files or have to prep up a new desktop rollout every six
> months?
12 -- Fedora 8 is still pretty good and only now you would have
to switch to F10. Actually, I know about many peop
Matej Cepl wrote:
> On 2008-12-03, 00:41 GMT, Christopher Chan wrote:
>> This is not a matter of preferring Ubuntu. It is one of NO
>> CHOICE. I know next to nothing about Debian/Ubuntu
>> configuration files nor am I familiar with dpkg or apt as I am
>> with rpm and yum. You think I want to mo
On 2008-12-03, 00:41 GMT, Christopher Chan wrote:
> This is not a matter of preferring Ubuntu. It is one of NO
> CHOICE. I know next to nothing about Debian/Ubuntu
> configuration files nor am I familiar with dpkg or apt as I am
> with rpm and yum. You think I want to move over for fun?
I am c
Ross Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's most obvious you have no idea what you are talking
> about, so if
> you prefer Ubuntu over CentOS then please move along, we
> need no
> trolls here.
>
Agreed. The guy seems to be a poorly informed loudmouth.
Regards,
Vandaman.
___
MHR wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Christopher Chan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Troll? I have been on this list for over four years. I have posted under
>> Feizhou and one or two other addresses as I moved jobs.
>>
>
> I shan't dispute you on this, but I would like to point out that:
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Christopher Chan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Troll? I have been on this list for over four years. I have posted under
> Feizhou and one or two other addresses as I moved jobs.
>
I shan't dispute you on this, but I would like to point out that:
1) There are 67 hi
Ross Walker wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Chan Chung Hang Christopher
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Xen _hypervisor_ will not make it into the kernel, because there's no point
>>> in that. It's not part of Xen design.
>>>
>>> Linux support for Xen hypervisor is already in Linux kernel
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Chan Chung Hang Christopher
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Xen _hypervisor_ will not make it into the kernel, because there's no point
>> in that. It's not part of Xen design.
>>
>> Linux support for Xen hypervisor is already in Linux kernel.
>>
> Whatever. From the
> Xen _hypervisor_ will not make it into the kernel, because there's no point
> in that. It's not part of Xen design.
>
> Linux support for Xen hypervisor is already in Linux kernel.
>
Whatever. From the last few months of testing with Xen, I really could
care less about running anything on it
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 09:00:39AM +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Brett Serkez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
> >> W
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 08:57:26AM +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
>
> > Not getting Xen into the kernel earlier is going to be Xen's downfall.
> >
>
> XEN will never make into the kernel. Period.
We were talking about getting Xen dom0 support into Linux kernel.
There is already Xen domU suppo
>> So I will be kissing Centos 5 bye bye for the school desktops and
>> switching to Ubuntu Hardy. When RHEL6 and therefore Centos 6 comes out,
>> hopefully I can come back to Centos...
>
> There are other virtualization solutions that run with/on CentOS
>
I did leave one other detail out..
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Christopher Chan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Not getting Xen into the kernel earlier is going to be Xen's downfall.
>>
>
> XEN will never make into the kernel. Period. I never paid any attention
> to Xen but I had to lately for get Windows virtualized for new Cen
Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Brett Serkez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
>> What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
>> technical
> Not getting Xen into the kernel earlier is going to be Xen's downfall.
>
XEN will never make into the kernel. Period. I never paid any attention
to Xen but I had to lately for get Windows virtualized for new Centos
desktops here at the school. What is the first thing that Centos 5 loaded?
T
Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> Then again Redhat guys have not yet commented about planned
> features for RHEL6..
>
Quite a few people appear to be quite insecure on the basis of
what they think is/is not going to happen. The bottom line is
crystal-ball gazing should be left alone and people shoul
Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote on Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:51:45 +0200:
> Then again Redhat guys have not yet commented about planned features for
> RHEL6..
Of course, it's the current state of affairs as we think we know it.
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany
Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: ht
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 03:31:19PM +0100, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
> Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote on Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:04:16 +0200:
>
> > There are many options.
>
> Yeah. The point behind my asking was if one would be able to run
> RHEL/CentOS 6 as a dom0 - as it is derived from Fedora and reflects the
Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote on Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:04:16 +0200:
> There are many options.
Yeah. The point behind my asking was if one would be able to run
RHEL/CentOS 6 as a dom0 - as it is derived from Fedora and reflects the
available bits at the time of the OS freeze. In other words, if there is a
Les Mikesell wrote:
Well, but why do you assume people run Windows where you run your
browser? You need a Windows license to run VIC, so the price of
installing ESXi/VIC is around $100 and up.
To someone who doesn't already have a windows license?
I wouldn't have a spare one, and even if yo
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Les,
Les Mikesell wrote:
Do you mean some specific version of VMware or what as being locked
in? I move images around among Linux/Windows/Mac hosts with the
free server on Linux/Windows and Fusion on the Mac.
you might want to step back a bit and workout exactly what
Morten Torstensen wrote:
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
It does not run on LINUX, but it is free. And comes with every single
ESXi install. Once you install ESXi the VI-client is downloadable
directly from that host; just point your browser at the VMware host.
Well, but why do you assume people
Les,
Les Mikesell wrote:
Do you mean some specific version of VMware or what as being locked
in? I move images around among Linux/Windows/Mac hosts with the free
server on Linux/Windows and Fusion on the Mac.
you might want to step back a bit and workout exactly what constitutes a
vmware e
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:20:31PM -0500, Ross Walker wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:01 PM, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Joseph L. Casale wrote:
> >
> >> ESXi, like all vmware products, is highly polished and very reliable.
> >> I am a HUGE fan of Xen, spent a lot of time learning it and
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:49:16PM +0100, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
> Karanbir Singh wrote on Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:49:20 +:
>
> > Fedora10 does have DomU support for Xen, dom0
> > support wasent ready in time,
>
> what exactly does that mean? That you can run Fedora as a pv guest in
> other distro
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 06:43:14PM +, Ned Slider wrote:
> Brett Serkez wrote:
> >On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Vandaman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >wrote:
> >>Do people have wet underwear for nothing over XEN?
> >>
> >>See http://www.redhat.com/promo/qumranet/
> >>
> >>As far as CentOS is conce
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
It does not run on LINUX, but it is free. And comes with every single
ESXi install. Once you install ESXi the VI-client is downloadable
directly from that host; just point your browser at the VMware host.
Well, but why do you assume people run Windows where you run
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Anyway, I think the point is made, Vmware is by far the most locked in
product out there, offers medium to low performance compared to other
similar products, however has a lower user ability threshold to get into.
Do you mean some specific version of VMware or what as
Am 26.11.2008 um 18:55 schrieb Karanbir Singh:
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
It doesn't make sense not to care about such things as they have real
bearing on the viability of a product/project. And customer
satisfaction does mean something. I do care about such things (they
are not the ONLY th
>I'd be happy to have you over my place and we can do some real world
>performance testing in server roles
I would actually love that (just for the sake of learning) but me thinks were on
opposite sides of the pond:)
>btw, as might not be clear to some people, I dont do Windows
>hosts/guests so
Joseph L. Casale wrote:
offers medium to low performance compared to other
similar products
I get it, you *hate* Microsoft and Windows and ...
Thats not true, I just dont have any use for either of them and noone I
work with does either. Joseph, you are letting your imagination run away
wit
> offers medium to low performance compared to other
>similar products
I get it, you *hate* Microsoft and Windows and ... That's cool. But before you
make claims about facts (not opinion, which is very valid as I respect your
personal choices to be good for you) you should verify those. Vmware is
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:01 PM, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joseph L. Casale wrote:
>
>> ESXi, like all vmware products, is highly polished and very reliable.
>> I am a HUGE fan of Xen, spent a lot of time learning it and I love it.
>> But don't discount ESXi since it's not open source.
>
>
Joseph L. Casale wrote:
> ESXi, like all vmware products, is highly polished and very reliable.
> I am a HUGE fan of Xen, spent a lot of time learning it and I love it.
> But don't discount ESXi since it's not open source.
So very much off topic but I can't resist :)
I like vmware a lot because
Joseph L. Casale wrote:
ESXi, like all vmware products, is highly polished and very reliable.
I am a HUGE fan of Xen, spent a lot of time learning it and I love it.
But don't discount ESXi since it's not open source.
I discount it as a product I cant use. And as a product that does not
give me
Joseph L. Casale wrote:
yes, VI is free. It does not run on Linux though which sucks, but same for
XenServer's commercial product...
your definition of Free is kinda warped if by your free you mean, having
to buy windows, agreeing to the draconian MS licenses and adding all
that layer on top
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
It does not run on LINUX, but it is free. And comes with every single
ESXi install. Once you install ESXi the VI-client is downloadable
directly from that host; just point your browser at the VMware host.
yes, but Linux is my chosen base to work on, which means vmw
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
It doesn't make sense not to care about such things as they have real
bearing on the viability of a product/project. And customer
satisfaction does mean something. I do care about such things (they
are not the ONLY things) and they are reasons *to use* Open Source an
Ned Slider wrote:
> Which is why I originally wrote...
>
> "*Some* are interpreting this... as an indication that
> xen will be dropped from RHEL6 as they direct their efforts
> towards KVM."
>
> *If* xen is not included in RHEL6 then it will, by
> definition, be deprecated in favour of KVM irre
>I've been repeatedly told ( including by people @vmware ) that you need
>the VI-client in order to get a management interface on ESXi, which
>neither runs on Linux nor is freely available.
>Am I being lied to ?
yes, VI is free. It does not run on Linux though which sucks, but same for
XenServe
>There seems to be a lot of fanboy affinity around ESXi - and with the
>fact that its 'available' off the shelf, zero cost up front. however to
>make it do anything you still need to buy into vmware tools.
Huh, Tools are free? I do _a lot_ of nothing apparently without what
I assume you meant, V
On Wed, 2008-11-26 at 15:16 +, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> nate wrote:
> > You don't really need to buy anything, you do if you want
> > fancy enterprise-like management of multiple systems from
> > one screen. And there are limitations in ESXi, it certainly
> > isn't equivalent in abilities to ent
On Wed, 2008-11-26 at 14:33 +, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > No, the hypervisor in a virtualized environment is an absolutely
> > critical component; there is no room at all for fanboys. VMware is a
> > well established solution [+50% customer satisfaction, Citrix at
Karanbir Singh wrote:
> nate wrote:
>> You don't really need to buy anything, you do if you want
>> fancy enterprise-like management of multiple systems from
>> one screen. And there are limitations in ESXi, it certainly
>> isn't equivalent in abilities to enterprise or standard edition.
>
> I've b
nate wrote:
You don't really need to buy anything, you do if you want
fancy enterprise-like management of multiple systems from
one screen. And there are limitations in ESXi, it certainly
isn't equivalent in abilities to enterprise or standard edition.
I've been repeatedly told ( including by p
Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Rainer Duffner wrote:
>> On a small scale, running VMware ESX3i or VMware-server is perfectly
>> possible.
>
> There seems to be a lot of fanboy affinity around ESXi - and with the
> fact that its 'available' off the shelf, zero cost up front. however to
> make it do anythin
nate wrote:
Cathrow cautioned, however, that although Red Hat will
continue to develop new features for both platforms, it
"might not make sense" to incorporate all the latest
enhancements in Xen, he said.
... Redhat are not the only people working on Xen and the Linux kernel...
"Xen's been a
Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Xen isnt going anywhere - Redhat and others have put in major efforts
> into making it work and as far as I can see, while kvm might be a far
> superior platform, its only an 'alternative' platform. Not the
> replacement one.
http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.co
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
No, the hypervisor in a virtualized environment is an absolutely
critical component; there is no room at all for fanboys. VMware is a
well established solution [+50% customer satisfaction, Citrix at ~30%;
and +50% vs. ~20% marketshare. VMware is the only virtualizati
On Wed, 2008-11-26 at 13:37 +, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Rainer Duffner wrote:
> > On a small scale, running VMware ESX3i or VMware-server is perfectly
> > possible.
> There seems to be a lot of fanboy affinity around ESXi -
No, the hypervisor in a virtualized environment is an absolutely
crit
Karanbir Singh wrote:
There seems to be a lot of fanboy affinity around ESXi - and with the
fact that its 'available' off the shelf, zero cost up front. however to
make it do anything you still need to buy into vmware tools. I dont see
how that is a lot more of a technology lockdown than Xen or
Rainer Duffner wrote:
On a small scale, running VMware ESX3i or VMware-server is perfectly
possible.
There seems to be a lot of fanboy affinity around ESXi - and with the
fact that its 'available' off the shelf, zero cost up front. however to
make it do anything you still need to buy into vmw
> >>> I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
> >>> that
> >>> I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
> >>> What does everyone recommend?
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Bo Lynch
> >> How much money do you have?
> >> What (how many systems, what do they do?)
Kai Schaetzl wrote:
Karanbir Singh wrote on Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:49:20 +:
Fedora10 does have DomU support for Xen, dom0
support wasent ready in time,
what exactly does that mean? That you can run Fedora as a pv guest in
other distros, but not under Fedora itself?
Fedora10, yes, not yet.
Karanbir Singh wrote on Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:49:20 +:
> Fedora10 does have DomU support for Xen, dom0
> support wasent ready in time,
what exactly does that mean? That you can run Fedora as a pv guest in
other distros, but not under Fedora itself?
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany
Get y
Tom Brown wrote on Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:42:30 +:
> i never mentioned anything about performance
Exactly, that's why I did it. You wrote it doesn't make a difference, it
does.
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany
Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com
__
Ned Slider wrote:
*If* xen is not included in RHEL6 then it will, by definition, be
deprecated in favour of KVM irrespective of whether (or not) RH
continues to support it throughout the life of RHEL5. Note that xen was
dropped (not deprecated, dropped) in Fedora 10, read into that what you
wi
It makes a difference. All of what I hear about KVM clearly states that
its performance is much worse than a paravirtualized RHEL/CentOS.
i never mentioned anything about performance - pvirt works very well for
me right now on a large scale so with 'support' being around for over 6
year
On Nov 25, 2008, at 3:44 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
that
I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
What does everyone recommend?
Thanks
How much money do you have?
What (how m
Am 25.11.2008 um 21:18 schrieb Bo Lynch:
On Tue, November 25, 2008 2:55 pm, Rainer Duffner wrote:
Am 25.11.2008 um 20:32 schrieb Bo Lynch:
I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
that
I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
What does e
Tom Brown wrote on Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:13:26 +:
> libvirt handles both so fundamentally it makes no difference as to what
> the virtualization technology is as the way its managed will not change
It makes a difference. All of what I hear about KVM clearly states that
its performance is much
Right now we have a about 30 servers. Mixture of CentOS,debian,slack,windows.
Free is always the best cost and is why we have been moving toward open
source as much as possible.
i see nothing 'wrong' with using Xen for now and for quite a few years
yet - its not going anywhere anytime so
> > I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
> > that
> > I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
> > What does everyone recommend?
> > Thanks
> How much money do you have?
> What (how many systems, what do they do?) do you actually want to
>
> I've been watching Xen myself since it first came out and never
> found it compelling so it's kind of vindication for me as I've
> had justify not using Xen a few times in the past couple years.
Ditto, that is my experience as well.
___
CentOS mailing
>Why not give kvm a try
>i am getting a BSOD on shutdown, but so far it is not bothering
>anything afaic tell.
You're not exactly making a good pitch bro :)
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Bo Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, November 25, 2008 2:55 pm, Rainer Duffner wrote:
>>
>> Am 25.11.2008 um 20:32 schrieb Bo Lynch:
>>
>>>
>>> I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
>>> that
>>> I'm hearing all of this I gue
On Tue, November 25, 2008 2:55 pm, Rainer Duffner wrote:
>
> Am 25.11.2008 um 20:32 schrieb Bo Lynch:
>
>>
>> I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
>> that
>> I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
>> What does everyone recommend?
>> Thanks
Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
The main issue seems to be cost of porting fixes and Xen itself to
newer kernels. The fact that Xen did not get into mainstream kernel
made the costs higher and higher. KVM got into mainstream kernel and
thus has more eyes on it.
Another point...KVM only runs
Am 25.11.2008 um 20:32 schrieb Bo Lynch:
I was thinking about implementing Xen for our school district. Now
that
I'm hearing all of this I guess I need to look at something else.
What does everyone recommend?
Thanks
Bo Lynch
How much money do you have?
What (how many systems, what do the
On Tue, November 25, 2008 2:33 pm, Rainer Duffner wrote:
>
> Am 25.11.2008 um 20:22 schrieb Brett Serkez:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
>>
>> What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Brett Serkez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
>
> What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
> technical or both decision?
The main i
Am 25.11.2008 um 20:22 schrieb Brett Serkez:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
technical or both decision?
From what I have heard of people who actually
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Tom Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Xen wont be in RHEL6 - KVM will
What insight can be offered on this change? Is this a business or
technical or both decision?
> libvirt handles both so fundamentally it makes no difference as to what the
> virtualization
Which is why I originally wrote...
"*Some* are interpreting this... as an indication that xen will be
dropped from RHEL6 as they direct their efforts towards KVM."
*If* xen is not included in RHEL6 then it will, by definition, be
deprecated in favour of KVM irrespective of whether (or no
Brett Serkez wrote:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Vandaman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Do people have wet underwear for nothing over XEN?
See http://www.redhat.com/promo/qumranet/
As far as CentOS is concerned saying Xen is deprecated is
jumping the gun. CentOS ships with Xen and as long as
Brett Serkez wrote:
> What isn't clear from reading the above referenced material is if Xen
> will be included in future CentOS releases.
If it's included in future RHEL releases then it will be included
in future CentOS releases.
Red Hat says they will support Xen for the duration of the RHEL
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Vandaman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do people have wet underwear for nothing over XEN?
>
> See http://www.redhat.com/promo/qumranet/
>
> As far as CentOS is concerned saying Xen is deprecated is
> jumping the gun. CentOS ships with Xen and as long as upstream
> s
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