Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-26 Thread Tommi Kajander
-Just to make a note, there has actually been some discussion in the published literature recently (ok maybe past ten years) about what terms; simply steric (as originally) or hydrogen bonding etc might be needed to explain observed backbone angular values. Tommi On Sep 26, 2011, at 5:44 PM

Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-26 Thread Dirk Kostrewa
Dear Nat, yes, I fully agree - all these restraints that improve the geometry either by restraining to high-resolution structures or by introducing H-bond restraints for secondary structures are very useful for low-resolution structures! I see your argument with the Ramachandran plot. But im

Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-26 Thread Nat Echols
On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Dirk Kostrewa wrote: > when I played with H-bond restraints for secondary structures for the > refinement of a 4.3 A structure (only a few weeks before they were > introduced in phenix), I've made the following observation: at low > resolution without H-bond restra

Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-26 Thread Dirk Kostrewa
Dear Nat and other interested colleagues, when I played with H-bond restraints for secondary structures for the refinement of a 4.3 A structure (only a few weeks before they were introduced in phenix), I've made the following observation: at low resolution without H-bond restraints for seconda

Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-23 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Pete, Coot offers using secondary structure restraints, i.e. this does not refer to refinement but to model building where your calculations do not apply. It helps a great deal if you are looking at a patch of density at, say, 3.5A resolution wh

Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-22 Thread Nat Echols
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Pete Meyer wrote: > In short, the effective observation to parameter ratio improves by ~4%. > This seems like a relatively small improvement, especially if the trade-off > is that Ramachandran statistics can't be used for validation anymore. It > also seems like

Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-22 Thread Phoebe Rice
aculty_id=123 http://www.rsc.org/shop/books/2008/9780854042722.asp Original message >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:29:54 -0700 >From: CCP4 bulletin board (on behalf of Pavel Afonine >) >Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints >To: CCP4BB@JISC

Re: [ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-22 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi Pete, the rationale is: at that low resolution the density map and traditional set of restraints are not enough to preserve secondary structure elements during refinement. For example, if you start with a model having good secondary structure elements, they will be distorted after refinement ag

[ccp4bb] question regarding secondary-structure restraints

2011-09-22 Thread Pete Meyer
I've noticed that people seem to be using or recommending secondary structure restraints for low resolution refinement lately, but I'm somewhat confused about the logic underlying their use. Using ballpark figures from a system I'm familiar with: 3 atoms (9 positional parameters), 4500