Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-22 Thread Eleanor Dodson
You must be carefulwith assigning twinning operators in a lower symmetry than the true one. Some twinning tests look for correlations between reflections which would be related by the twinning operator. eg a twinning operator for PG 4 is k,h,-l so the CC between h,k,l, and k,h,-l is checked. B

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-21 Thread Anastassis Perrakis
Hi - I would agree with the twining possibility - I4122 is guilty until proven innocent ;-) As for the SHARP idea, I don't think that SAD phasing again would help. At 3.2 A resolution, and if radiation damage permits, good old MAD (phased by SHARP naturally ...) will most likely give you

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-21 Thread Yanming Zhang
Hi, Joe, 1,Try SHARP and then check the quality of the map. If good, continue, if bad, need re-examine your data. I Think SHARP is good for your case. 2, Do not give up the possibility of twinning. A lower symmetry plus a nearly perfect twin operator might mislead to a higher symmetry. Yanmin

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-19 Thread Kay Diederichs
I'd try to 1) make sure your data reduction is optimal - try at least one other program, and not only your favourite one! 2) as this is SAD: use SHARP to get the best experimental phases, plus density modification for a map without model bias 3) incorporate the experimental phase information int

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-19 Thread Axel T. Brunger
Mark, The bulk solvent model in CNS 1.2 is now perfectly stable at low resolution. No need to fix the solvent parameters anymore. Axel Mark A. White wrote: Joe, 1) The bulk solvent models in CNS and REFMAC are not stable at low resolution. Fixing the bulk solvent B-factor can improve th

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-19 Thread James Holton
Merge in the lower symmetry space group you mentioned and refine with a twinning operator. xtriage can tell you what the twinning operator is and phenix.refine can do the twinned refinement. In my experience, these kinds of stats almost always indicate an incorrect symmetry choice somewhere

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-19 Thread Mark A. White
Joe, 1) The bulk solvent models in CNS and REFMAC are not stable at low resolution. Fixing the bulk solvent B-factor can improve this behavior. 2) With low resolution data model-bias becomes a serious issue when working with a MR solution. I have found that DM (with or withou NCS) can improve l

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-19 Thread Eleanor Dodson
These problems are horrible! 1) I usually try to run refinement using the exptl phases as restraints. It is worth getting the best possible phases before you start - DM with 66% solvent should make a great improvement.. Then these cam be used as restraints for the refinement, and your FWT m

Re: [ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-19 Thread Juergen Bosch
Hi Joe, have you tried to process the data in different programs ? This can sometimes make a dramatic difference, being completely unbiased I would recommend XDS over Mosflm or HKL2000. Was your data carefully collected ? How many rejections, overlaps do you have ? Juergen -- Jürgen Bosch U

[ccp4bb] problems with map quality, refinement and R/Rfree

2007-10-19 Thread Joe Smith
Hi all, We have data sets for a protein-RNA complex at 3.2 A resolution. . The data belong to the space group I4122 and contains one molecule of Protein-RNA complex (300AA and 16nt; 66% solvent content) in the asym unit. We have managed to get phases using Se-SAD and the present model contains 60%