Re: [ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-23 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi Mischa, We have a similar case. There is difference density, but only for some of > the hydrogens (mostly methyl groups on Leu, Ile, Val, Ala). How does one > decide which hydrogens to include in explicit refinement? The case in > question has 0.99Å data (diffraction is significantly better, b

Re: [ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-23 Thread Eleanor Dodson
I have rarely worked with such data, but when we did, we always kept to the riding hydroge positions in for refinement. You can check the important ones by calculating sfs without them and seeing how well they fit the map. For important residues like ASPS in catalytic triads that can be very re

Re: [ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-23 Thread Mischa Machius
We have a similar case. There is difference density, but only for some of the hydrogens (mostly methyl groups on Leu, Ile, Val, Ala). How does one decide which hydrogens to include in explicit refinement? The case in question has 0.99Å data (diffraction is significantly better, but data were col

Re: [ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-23 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Can you see the hydrogens in the maps when they are excluded from the phasing? There is little hope of refining them independently if you cant see discrete peaks for them. Eleanor On 11/23/2010 05:18 AM, Kenneth Satyshur wrote: Sirs: We are attempting to refine hydrogens on a ligand (which

Re: [ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-23 Thread George M. Sheldrick
Even with SHELX, at 1.2A you should use a riding model for hydrogens and not refine them freely. SHELX has a useful facility (OMIT $H or OMIT followed by specific hydrogen atom names) to keep the hydrogen atoms in the atom list but not include their contributions to the structure factors. Then yo

Re: [ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-22 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi Kenneth, ...1.2A resolution... refinement of individual parameters for a hydrogen atom... Hm.. Are you refining against neutron diffraction data? Anyways, to answer your question: technically yes, you can refine individual parameters of any selected atom(s) against X-ray or neutron data (or bo

Re: [ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-22 Thread Ed Pozharski
Not sure if all the sirs will concur (and it might be a good idea to ask madams also), but the answer is probably no. As far as protonation state goes (guess that is what you are after, not oxidation), a better strategy may be to look into the bond lengths between the appropriate heavy atoms that

[ccp4bb] partial hydrogen refinement.

2010-11-22 Thread Kenneth Satyshur
Sirs: We are attempting to refine hydrogens on a ligand (which is 100 % occupied) and has ~ 40 heavy atoms (CNO). The data is 1.2 A, 325 AA, 83335 data points in C2. We have refined aniso and with H riding along (Rf= 17, R = 15) in CCP4. Can we individually refine the protons on the ligand? Let t