Re: [ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-22 Thread Bernhard Rupp (Hofkristallrat a.D.)
> Bernhard's thought experiment is a good one, I picked it up from Ianprobably posted earlier BR

Re: [ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-22 Thread Ian Tickle
> (1). Can I say the X-ray weighting is optimal when it yields the smallest > Rfree, meanwhile RMS-Z(bonds) is smaller than "0.85 - 0.146*resolution" > (angles also maybe)? The weighting is optimal when the free likelihood is maximised with respect to the weights, or equivalently when the negative

Re: [ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-21 Thread Bernhard Rupp (Hofkristallrat a.D.)
> (2). Why RMS-Z(bonds) should be lower than that for low resolution data and higher for high resolution? Or why high-resolution can allows more outliers? Imagine torsion angle refinement only, at low resolution: The bond lengths are fixed to target values, their rmsd will be zero. Imagine free r

Re: [ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-21 Thread Hailiang Zhang
Hi Ian: Thanks a lot! I have 2 questions: (1). Can I say the X-ray weighting is optimal when it yields the smallest Rfree, meanwhile RMS-Z(bonds) is smaller than "0.85 - 0.146*resolution" (angles also maybe)? (2). Why RMS-Z(bonds) should be lower than that for low resolution data and higher for

Re: [ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-21 Thread Roger Rowlett
The automatic weighting feature in the latest releases of refmac is pretty good. However, if you are setting the X-ray weighting factor manually, typical targets for rms bond angles are 1.0-2.0 degrees and rms bond lengths of 0.01-0.02 A. On 9/21/2010 3:54 PM,

Re: [ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-21 Thread Ian Tickle
To give credit where it is due I should perhaps have explained that the formula for RMS-Z(bonds) that I quoted was derived from an analysis of re-refinements from the PDB-REDO project (http://www.cmbi.ru.nl/pdb_redo), not from the PDB itself. PDB-REDO itself uses the LLfree optimisation method tha

Re: [ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-21 Thread Ian Tickle
Hi Hailiang The short answer is that the optimal X-ray weighting factor minimises Rfree, or better -LLfree. However this is tricky to carry out in practice since it means you have to run several jobs adjusting the weight manually each time to find the optimum.  Also, ideally the same procedure sh

[ccp4bb] how to decide an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC

2010-09-21 Thread Hailiang Zhang
Hi all: I have a question about deciding an ideal "Weight matrix" value in REFMAC. When I change it from 0.1 to 0.001, the bond distance rmsd changes from 0.075 to 0.008, while the R changes from 0.26 to 0.33 (resolution 3.2A). Now I am not sure what is the best balance based on these numbers. Are