Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Garib N Murshudov
Yes, in principle, on paper it is possible. Moreover in many cases by looking at the various directional Wilson plots you may be able to see direction of helices (just like in DNA/RNA). However in general case it is a little bit tricky (mixture of different secondary structures directed in diffe

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Jacob Keller
It seems to me that spherical forms of Wilson plots could be used to determine how many bonds of what nature were oriented in which direction, and this may have been what Bricogne's micro molecular replacement technique was capitalizing on? For example, one might be able to orient a straight DNA mo

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Garib N Murshudov
As far as I know there are several bumps: around 3.5-4 (there are some at low resolution related with molecular shapes also) - secondary structures, ~2.2 related with angles and around 1.2 related with covalent bonds. For DNA/RNA there is one more bump around 1.6-1.7 ( I thought that is because

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Nat, isn't this partially discussed by Morris' and Bricogne's article about "Sheldrick's 1.2A rule and beyond" (Acta Cryst D59, 2003)? Tim On 05/09/12 20:44, Nat Echols wrote: > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Edward A. Berry > wrote: >> Still

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Edward A. Berry
> A protein would only scatter but not diffract or Diffract but not scatter? isn't diffraction a kind of scattering? But yes, the atoms in the unit cell may seem random in that distance range (in fact this is assumed in wilson scattering) but in a perfect crystal they will be the same in each uni

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Mark Wilson
Beadle Center 1901 Vine Street Lincoln, NE 68588 (402) 472-3626 mwilso...@unl.edu Jacob Keller Sent by: CCP4 bulletin board 05/09/2012 12:22 PM Please respond to Jacob Keller To CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK cc Subject Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals Yes, I just looked up the

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Jacob Keller
Yes, I just looked up the paper--seems right on topic--a powder-type ring at ~4.2 Ang, corresponding to Calpha-Calpha distances! But no 1.2-1.5 Ang ring, from what I saw. Maybe it gets swamped out by other things. I am thinking that the variety/distribution of bonds/distances of length 1-3 Ang in t

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread John R Helliwell
Dear Jacob, Our, ie protein, crystals usual diffuse scattering ring involves a typically 2.8 Angstrom solvent oxygen to oxygen distance. There must be a 1Angstrom OH diffuse scattering ring but the weakness of the hydrogen scattering mitigates against that. The covalent links, to which you refer, a

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Jacob, I do not know the data, but the word 'fibre' sounds close to 'one-dimensional crystal', especially considering the screw axis you have in DNA, at least within the resolution limits that the pictures suggest. Cheers, Tim On 05/09/12 18:3

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Jacob Keller
Well, what about the original DNA fiber diffraction images--no microcrystals there, as far as I know, but one can clearly see the stacking distances and the phosphate backbone. JPK On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Tim Gruene wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dear Jaco

Re: [ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Jacob, A protein would only scatter but not diffract, the latter - in my understanding - being the result of constructive interference from a regular array of unit cells . A powder pattern is the superposition of many small crystals amongst whic

[ccp4bb] Powder Rings in Single Crystals

2012-05-09 Thread Jacob Keller
Dear Crystallographers, the "saxs on crystals" thread reminded me of a question I have had for a while, and never having collected data better than ~1.6 Ang or so, cannot answer myself from experience: I would think that there might be powder-like diffraction rings at distances corresponding to th