Re: [ccp4bb] MR problem in determining the number of identical molecules in ASU

2011-02-16 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Another cause of difficulty - nothing really to do with the spacegroup selection - is when one copy of the model has much higher B factors than others. Most MR searches assume that the copies contribute more or less equally to scattering. If you assign too high a symmetry this will make MR le

Re: [ccp4bb] MR problem in determining the number of identical molecules in ASU

2011-02-16 Thread Ian Tickle
The space group in which you do the RF makes no difference (assuming the model in each case is identical of course) because you're superposing the same amount of scattering matter: it has nothing to do with the fraction of the contents of the AU. In the high symmetry space group with say 1 instanc

Re: [ccp4bb] MR problem in determining the number of identical molecules in ASU

2011-02-16 Thread Ed Pozharski
In my experience, the success of molecular replacement depends primarily on the quality of the model. Thus if your model is good, even P1 will work. Two extreme cases that I encountered were searching with a monomer for what turned out to be 4 tetramers (thus first search only accounted for 1/16

Re: [ccp4bb] MR problem in determining the number of identical molecules in ASU

2011-02-16 Thread Edward A. Berry
I think the question was not concerning right vs wrong space group, but right vs a lower symmetry superset space group - P4322 vs P43 for example. I would also be interested in the answer. At first glance it appears harder in the lower symmetry because with each monomer you would be searching for

Re: [ccp4bb] MR problem in determining the number of identical molecules in ASU

2011-02-16 Thread Vellieux Frederic
Ting-Wei Jiang wrote: Dear experts, Sorry for a simple question but confusing me so much! Does it make bad effects on determining the number of identical molecules in ASU by choosing low symmetry space group. For example,If I choose lowest symmetry(p4) instead of higher one(p43212). Does it

Re: [ccp4bb] MR problem in determining the number of identical molecules in ASU

2011-02-16 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Well P4 isnt a subgroup of P43212 - you would need P43 MR programs will often let you test several spacegroups. See Phaser MR or MOLREP - I would try that and choose the best Eleanor On 02/16/2011 02:48 PM, Ting-Wei Jiang wrote: Dear experts, Sorry for a simple question but confusing me

[ccp4bb] MR problem in determining the number of identical molecules in ASU

2011-02-16 Thread Ting-Wei Jiang
Dear experts, Sorry for a simple question but confusing me so much! Does it make bad effects on determining the number of identical molecules in ASU by choosing low symmetry space group. For example,If I choose lowest symmetry(p4) instead of higher one(p43212). Does it cause any trouble in dete