Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread William G. Scott
On Oct 14, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Jacob Keller wrote: > I have always found this angle independence difficult. Why, if the anomalous > scattering is truly angle-independent, don't we just put the detector at 90 > or 180deg and solve the HA substructure by Patterson or direct methods using > the pure

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread William G. Scott
On Oct 14, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Tim Gruene wrote: > I would like to understand how the notion of a photon being scattered from all > electrons in the crystal lattice explains the observation that radiation > damage > is localised to the size of the beam so that we can move the crystal along and > sh

Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another) - Counting statistics

2010-10-14 Thread Felix Frolow
It is mostly because in the higher angles intensity of the reflection is lower, precision is lower and anomalous signal is washed out by counting statistics. For very well diffracting test crystals anomalous signal is MEASURABLE to very high resolution providing good enough I/sigma(I) is generate

Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Ethan Merritt
On Thursday, October 14, 2010 02:28:26 pm Jacob Keller wrote: > I have always found this angle independence difficult. Why, if the anomalous > scattering is truly angle-independent, don't we just put the detector at 90 > or 180deg and solve the HA substructure by Patterson or direct methods using

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Ed Pozharski
On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 23:31 +0200, Tim Gruene wrote: > you observe that each photon decides on exactly one slit > that it goes through. That is if you observe which slit it goes through. -- "I'd jump in myself, if I weren't so good at whistling." Julian, King of L

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Ed Pozharski
On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 23:31 +0200, Tim Gruene wrote: > I would like to understand how the notion of a photon being scattered > from all > electrons in the crystal lattice explains the observation that > radiation damage > is localised to the size of the beam so that we can move the crystal > along

Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Tim Gruene
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 04:28:26PM -0500, Jacob Keller wrote: > I have always found this angle independence difficult. Why, if the anomalous > scattering is truly angle-independent, don't we just put the detector at 90 > or 180deg and solve the HA substructure by Patterson or direct methods using

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Tim Gruene
Good evening citizens and non-citizens, On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 08:21:19AM -0700, William G. Scott wrote: > On Oct 14, 2010, at 7:40 AM, Ed Pozharski wrote: > > > On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 08:41 +0200, Tim Gruene wrote: > >> This sounds as though you are saying that a single photon interacts > >> wit

Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Jacob Keller
I have always found this angle independence difficult. Why, if the anomalous scattering is truly angle-independent, don't we just put the detector at 90 or 180deg and solve the HA substructure by Patterson or direct methods using the pure anomalous scattering intensities? Or why don't we see pur

Re: [ccp4bb] inflated BOND_RMSD with external restraints (refmac)

2010-10-14 Thread Garib N Murshudov
Hi Ed refmac 5.6 should not have this problem. Yes, you are right. It should be considered as a bug. I think I have fixed it. Could you please try 5.6version from: www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/refmac/latest_refmac.html You need to take experimental version (it should be stable enough, although I upda

[ccp4bb] inflated BOND_RMSD with external restraints (refmac)

2010-10-14 Thread Ed Pozharski
It appears that external restraints are included in bond_rmsd calculation. When they are used to restrain the hydrogen bonds to maintain the Watson-Crick pairing in a 3A resolution structure of a protein-DNA complex, the bond_rmsd is inflated about 5 times. To verify this, the refmac run was done

Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Ethan Merritt
On Thursday, October 14, 2010 01:18:04 pm Bart Hazes wrote: > > On 10-10-14 01:34 PM, Ethan Merritt wrote: > > > ... > > The contribution from normal scattering, f0, is strong at low resolution > but becomes weaker as the scattering angle increases. > The contribution from anomalous scatte

[ccp4bb] Faculty Position, Dept of Molecular Biology, Princeton University

2010-10-14 Thread Phil Jeffrey
Faculty Position Department of Molecular Biology Princeton University The Department of Molecular Biology at Princeton University invites applications for a tenure-track faculty position at the assistant professor level. We are seeking an outstanding investigator in the area of biochemistry a

Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Bart Hazes
On 10-10-14 01:34 PM, Ethan Merritt wrote: ... The contribution from normal scattering, f0, is strong at low resolution but becomes weaker as the scattering angle increases. The contribution from anomalous scattering, f' + f", is constant at all scattering angles. ... My simple

[ccp4bb] RE : [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Alexandre OURJOUMTSEV
Dear Ed, I think you was "too fast and easy" in your comment. Tensors are entities that have special rules when changing the coordinate system. That's not the case for "any matrix". Best regards, Sacha De : CCP4 bulletin board [ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] d

Re: [ccp4bb] [QUAR] Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Ethan Merritt
On Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:12:18 pm Lijun Liu wrote: > I think I need make it clear. Not their changes (f' and f") but their > contribution to reflection intensities changes. f' and f" are not "changes". They are the real and imaginary components of anomalous scattering. They are wavele

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Ethan Merritt
On Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:41:17 am Lijun Liu wrote: > Power on scattering by atoms is angle dependent, which is true for > both the real and imaginary parts. Actually, no. The f' and f" terms are independent of scattering angle, at least to first approximation. This is why the signal fr

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread William G. Scott
On Oct 14, 2010, at 7:40 AM, Ed Pozharski wrote: > On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 08:41 +0200, Tim Gruene wrote: >> This sounds as though you are saying that a single photon interacts >> with several >> electrons to give rise to a reflection. > > Not only with several - it shouldn't be much of an exagger

[ccp4bb] NUVISION 60GX glasses/emitters

2010-10-14 Thread David Roberts
Is there anybody out there who has a use for these glasses/emitters that would be willing to purchase some for a reduced fee? I have 16 pair (I think, I need to go check closely, but I have a lot of them), plus 6-7 emitters. I just need to go away from this type of system, probably to a mixed

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Lijun Liu
Power on scattering by atoms is angle dependent, which is true for both the real and imaginary parts. (Think about the plot of f vs sin(theta)/lamda). The f" contribution to anomalous scattering of F(000) is 0, just in contrast to that the real part in this (000) direction is the full number o

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ed Pozharski
On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 09:11 -0700, James Holton wrote: > I wonder if anyone on this > thread can explain to me the difference between a matrix and a > tensor? Matrix is a 2nd order tensor. Tensors may have any number of dimensions, including zero. Tensor is just a fancy name for a multidimensi

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Jacob Keller
As I sit here listening to the giant "whoosh" sound of all the world's biologists unsubscribing from the CCP4BB, I wonder if anyone on this thread can explain to me the difference between a matrix and a tensor? Since when are there biologists on this bb? JPK p.s. Is "whooshing" biologist-spec

[ccp4bb] Webinar -- "Scientific inquiry, inference and critical reasoning in the macromolecular crystallography curriculum"

2010-10-14 Thread Angela Criswell
Dear colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to an upcoming webinar to be presented by Bernhard Rupp titled "Scientific inquiry, inference and critical reasoning in the macromolecular crystallography curriculum". In this webinar, Bernhard will expand on his recent Journal of Applied Cr

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Bart Hazes
yes there is a F000, it is always in diffraction condition independent of crystal orientation (hx+ky+lz) is always zero for any xyz when hkl = 000 There are no Miller planes but I guess you can think of a "Miller volume" F000 is normally not use in map calculations and that is why the average va

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ethan Merritt
On Thursday, October 14, 2010 09:11:50 am James Holton wrote: > As I sit here listening to the giant "whoosh" sound of all the world's > biologists unsubscribing from the CCP4BB, I wonder if anyone on this > thread can explain to me the difference between a matrix and a tensor? In invoking the l

[ccp4bb] Sweet and discreet tweets about helices and sheets - @PDBeurope

2010-10-14 Thread Gerard DVD Kleywegt
Following feedback from students, collaborators and other structural biologists, the Protein Data Bank in Europe (PDBe; pdbe.org) has become aware of a need for a social networking presence to strengthen the link with current and potential users of its resources. So if you would like to be

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Jacob Keller
This F000 reflection is hard for me to understand: -Is there a F-0-0-0 reflection as well, whose anomalous signal would have a phase shift of opposite sign? -Is F000 always in the diffraction condition? -Is there interference between the scattered photons in F000? -Does F000 change in amplitude

Re: [ccp4bb] Problem installing CCP4 on MacOSX behind firewall?

2010-10-14 Thread William Scott
Two ideas: 1. Create a file in your home directory called ~/.curlrc and in it put the following line: -P - ftp 2. Use wget first, install wget with fink Then put the line DownloadMethod: wget into the file /sw/etc/fink.conf (or /sw64/etc/fink.conf ). I use wget. It seems to be mor

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Dale Tronrud
Just to throw a monkey wrench in here (and not really relevant to the original question)... I've understood that, just as the real part of F(000) is the sum of all the "normal" scattering in the unit cell, the imaginary part is the sum of all the anomalous scattering. This means that in the

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread James Holton
As I sit here listening to the giant "whoosh" sound of all the world's biologists unsubscribing from the CCP4BB, I wonder if anyone on this thread can explain to me the difference between a matrix and a tensor? I ask because I think stress and strain are mechanisms of radiation damage, but whe

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ian Tickle
Ed, I think you're confusing 'electric current' with 'electric current density'. The first is a scalar, the second a vector. The current I is defined as the surface integral of the density vector J with respect to the element of area dA: I = integral over S (J.dA) (how I wish we could use pro

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ganesh Natrajan
Ed, The direction of current in an electrical circuit has nothing to do with any coordinate system. It is defined by convention in electricity as the direction opposite to that in which the electrons are moving. So the current is indicated as being from + to - in a circuit. Of course, you may chan

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ed Pozharski
Again, definitions are a matter of choice. Under your strict version I still may consider electric current as vector, if I introduce the coordinate system in the circuit. When I transform the coordinate system (from clockwise to counterclockwise), current changes direction with it. By the way, c

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Joseph Cockburn
Electrical current is a 4-vector, is it not? > Correct! - and an alternating electric current is represented as a > complex number (then it's conventional to use the symbol 'j' for > sqrt(-1) to avoid confusion with 'i', the symbol for electric > current!). Since as you say electric current is a

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ian Tickle
Correct! - and an alternating electric current is represented as a complex number (then it's conventional to use the symbol 'j' for sqrt(-1) to avoid confusion with 'i', the symbol for electric current!). Since as you say electric current is a scalar not a vector, then a complex number has to be a

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Joseph Cockburn
> The definition game is on! :) > > Vectors are supposed to have direction and amplitude, unlike scalars. I think that this is part of the problem here. Whilst vector quantities do possess both size and direction, not everything that possesses size and direction is necessarily a vector by definiti

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ganesh Natrajan
The definition of a vector as being something that has 'magnitude' and 'direction' is actually incorrect. If that were to be the case, a quantity like electric current would be a vector and not a scalar. Electric current is a scalar. A vector is something that transforms like the coordinate system

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question (another)

2010-10-14 Thread Ed Pozharski
On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 08:41 +0200, Tim Gruene wrote: > This sounds as though you are saying that a single photon interacts > with several > electrons to give rise to a reflection. Not only with several - it shouldn't be much of an exaggeration to say that the photon senses all the electrons in th

Re: [ccp4bb] vector and scalars

2010-10-14 Thread Ed Pozharski
The definition game is on! :) Vectors are supposed to have direction and amplitude, unlike scalars. Curiously, one can take a position that real numbers are vectors too, if you consider negative and positive numbers having opposite directions (and thus subtraction is simply a case of addition of a

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question

2010-10-14 Thread Ian Tickle
I don't see any conflict here: all you're saying is that there's a 1-to-1 mapping between the complex scalar a+i*b in C and the 2-D vector (a,b) in R^2. However the vector does not have all the properties of the original complex scalar: for example I can happily compute a value for log(a+i*b) but

Re: [ccp4bb] Problem installing CCP4 on MacOSX behind firewall?

2010-10-14 Thread Tim Gruene
Dear Mads, the first error message _might_ be due to a dead link, but without further information that's difficult to tell. The second error message says that curl tried to get the archive using ftp. When you download something through the ccp4 web site your computer is probably using http, and m

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question

2010-10-14 Thread Tim Gruene
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:34:30PM +0100, Ian Tickle wrote: > Formally, a complex number (e.g. a structure factor) is not a vector. Formally, C is isomorphous to R^2 (at least that's what math departments in Germany teach, and it's not difficult to prove), therefore complex numbers are vectors. Tha

Re: [ccp4bb] embarrassingly simple MAD phasing question

2010-10-14 Thread Ian Tickle
Formally, a complex number (e.g. a structure factor) is not a vector. Just because the addition & subtraction rules (i.e. 'a+b' & 'a-b') are defined for real numbers, complex numbers and vectors doesn't make a complex number a vector, any more than it makes a real number a vector (or vice versa).

[ccp4bb] Problem installing CCP4 on MacOSX behind firewall?

2010-10-14 Thread Mads Gabrielsen
I have a problem installing CCP4 on a MacOSX 10.6.4. When I follow the procedure on Bill Scott's web-pages to install the precompiled version, I get an error message saying Err http://sage.ucsc.edu stable/main Packages 403 Forbidden When trying to install it via the normal Fink way, I get curl

Re: [ccp4bb] cad, freerflag, uniqueify : free set when making anomalous from merged data

2010-10-14 Thread Eleanor Dodson
To try to answer the Q I think you are asking.. If you keep anomalous seperate you will get a file from ctruncate with h k l F+ SIGF+ F- SIGF- I+ SIGI+ I- SIGI- The observations flagged as F- or I- etc are actually measured for the reflection -h-k-l So uniqueify generates markers for eac

Re: [ccp4bb] protein ligand energy

2010-10-14 Thread John R Helliwell
Dear Colleagues, I see I should quote the last sentence of our abstract of Bradbrook et al 1998:- This work demonstrates the difficulty in relating structure to thermodynamics, but suggests that dynamic models are needed to provide a more complete picture of ligand - receptor interactions. Be