Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03.05.2014 02:54, Ben Davenport wrote: > No one quotes amounts as 63 k$ or 3 M$. The accepted standard at > least in the US is , i.e. $63k > or $3M. As you said, that's in the US, and I strongly suspect the sole reason is that in the US the curr

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

> the SI prefixes. People *do* use 63k USD, $63k, and $3M. I'll be the first > one As a counter argument, many sources (including the BBC) abbreviate million to 'm' (and billion to 'bn'), e.g. $3m, $3bn. I think any similarity with SI units here is coincidental. roy --

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Excellent move Jeff. Best would now be to establish XBT as the ISO code for bits. Regards, Tamas Blummer http://bitsofproof.com On 02.05.2014, at 21:17, Jeff Garzik wrote: > > > Related: > http://blog.bitpay.com/2014/05/02/bitpay-bitcoin-and-where-to-put-that-decimal-point.html > > -- >

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Think your example is not quite valid ... People say or write $88M or $45k I.e. use SI prefix as a suffix, else it would be more, not less, clear on what amount is being referred to. For me, "bits" are easy to say and one million as a factor is simple to understand. M-bits, kilobits, millibits

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 >Huh? Your examples demonstrate the *opposite* of your point. 'k' and >'M' *are* >the SI prefixes. People *do* use 63k USD, $63k, and $3M. Excellent point. Also, I frequently hear statements referring to mili-bitcoins, mBTC, pronounced as "mili-

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Luke, My point is that you never apply the prefixes to the currency unit itself. We don't spend kilodollars or megadollars. Ben On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Luke Dashjr wrote: > On Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:54:37 AM Ben Davenport wrote: > > My only addition is that I think we should all st

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:54:37 AM Ben Davenport wrote: > My only addition is that I think we should all stop trying to attach SI > prefixes to the currency unit. Name me another world currency that uses SI > prefixes. No one quotes amounts as 63 k$ or 3 M$. The accepted standard at > least in t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I live in Argentina. Here, 1BTC is around half of a monthly average wage (net), so, as you can imagine, the value of 1 BTC is *very* inconvenient for everyday transactions. Also it presents an important entry barrier for new adopters: It would be easier to accept buying thousands of "bits" than

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

It will also be important to chose the currency symbol for "bits" at the same time. Lowercase stroke "b" I think is the obvious choice. Unicode U+0180 Aaron On Friday, May 2, 2014, Alan Reiner wrote: > I've been a strong supporter of the 1e-6 unit switch since the beginning > and ready to do w

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I've been a strong supporter of the 1e-6 unit switch since the beginning and ready to do whatever I can with Armory to help ease that transition. I'm happy to prioritize a release that updates the Armory interface to make "bits" the default unit, when the time is right. I think it makes sense to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I fully support this (it's what I suggested over a year ago), but what it comes down to is BitPay, Coinbase, Blockchain and Bitstamp getting together, agreeing what they're going to use, and doing a little joint customer education campaign around it. If there's community momentum around "bits", gre

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Related: http://blog.bitpay.com/2014/05/02/bitpay-bitcoin-and-where-to-put-that-decimal-point.html -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- "Accelerate

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 14 November 2013 12:45, Melvin Carvalho wrote: > Rationale > === > > Given the recent rise in value there seems to be anecdotal evidence that 1 > bitcoin being so high is putting off a lot of normal buyers, because they > feel that putting down $400+ and only getting "1 coin", or having to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Hello, I see a lot of talk on this topic and get the senst that it is focused on default display only regarding the mBTC / uBTC questions. However, if the focus is broader, involving whether or how to express other currencies or moving further along to what that might even mean (since many people

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Regarding (ISO standards) currency symbols, XBT is already used as equivalent to 1 Bitcoin in numerous places, and XBC is taken and BT* belongs to Bhutan (and X** is already the default for non-national currency common items of trade), so IMHO we should define something like XUB as microbitcoins so

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I think * if we change to mBTC because your state currencys price for bitcoin make this a valid option we will change again in future * users do not like changes * we should keep a good standard A good standard should be * built on standards (e.g. SI) * backed by best practice: never force the use

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Fairly useless experiment, since the vast majority of users will almost always stay at the default. The winner will always be whatever was selected as the default initially. This might work if the default was randomly chosen, and you see what actually annoyed users enough to switch off of it most

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

so much discussion for a visual update... make this a user experiment: -give the user the possibility to use BTC/mBTC/uMTC -retrieve the results after some time -make the default the most used option 2014-03-14 16:15 GMT+00:00 Alex Morcos : > I think Mark makes some good arguments. > I realize t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Well, not sure I wanted to subscribe the mbtc vs ubtc list... its a default, not a big deal. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I think Mark makes some good arguments. I realize this would only add to the confusion, but... What if we did relabel 100 satoshis to be some new kind of unit ("bit" or whatever else), with a proper 3 letter code, and then from a user standpoint, where people are using mBTC, they could switch to us

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

A cup of coffee in Tokyo costs about 55 yen. You see similar magnitude numbers in both Chinas, Thailand, and other economically important East Asian countries. Expect to pay hundreds of rupees in India, or thousands of rupees in Indonesia. This concept that money should have low, single digits for

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Indeed, rounding is the obvious easy fix. Bitcoin Wallet rounds all amounts except if you type amounts with a higher precision. On 03/14/2014 04:32 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > The issue here is that most people are producing prices in BTC by just > multiplying through the spot rate with full precisio

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

The issue here is that most people are producing prices in BTC by just multiplying through the spot rate with full precision. Obviously if you converted dollar prices to Euro prices with the same technique, you'd also end up with lots of numbers after the decimal point, but in the real world nobody

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I don't know about financial software. I really don't get what you mean by weird notation? Bitcoin Wallet is made for ordinary users. They are used to real-world prices like EUR 1.63 / USD 2.26 (that would be the Espresso example). How can mBTC 3.56 be weird to these people? Granted, there are ex

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

>You give them a hard to interpret thing like mBTC and then wonder why >they rather look at local currency. Because the choices you gave them are bad. I don't think this is particularly true. The options people are given are all good in this case and all have their merits. The reason people are co

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I think you want to misunderstand me Andreas. It is astonishing arrogance to define the units because we in Bitcoin are used to some wierd notation and ignore that the vast majority of population and financial software in existence does not have a notion of prices with more than two decimals.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

By that definition 3.56 is a price. Maybe I misunderstood you and you're lobbying for mBTC? On 03/14/2014 03:57 PM, Tamas Blummer wrote: > you miss the point Andreas. It is not about the magnitude but about > the form of a price. > > A number with no decimals or with two decimals is percieved as

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

you miss the point Andreas. It is not about the magnitude but about the form of a price. A number with no decimals or with two decimals is percieved as a price in some currency. A number with more than two decimals is just not percieved as a price but as a geeky something that you rather convert

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 03:05:25PM +0100, Andreas Schildbach wrote: > btw. None of Bitcoin Wallet's users complained about confusion because > of the mBTC switch. In contrast, I get many mails and questions if > exchange rates happen to differ by >10%. At the moment, I imagine the vast majority of

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

How much do you pay for an Espresso in your local currency? At least for the Euro and the Dollar, mBTC 3.56 is very close to what people would expect. Certainly more familiar than µBTC 3558 or BTC 0.003578. Anyway, I was just sharing real-world experience: nobody is confused. On 03/14/2014 03:1

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

You give them a hard to interpret thing like mBTC and then wonder why they rather look at local currency. Because the choices you gave them are bad. I think Bitcoin would have a better chance to be percieved as a currency of its own if it had prices and fractions like currencies do. 3.558 mBTC o

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

btw. None of Bitcoin Wallet's users complained about confusion because of the mBTC switch. In contrast, I get many mails and questions if exchange rates happen to differ by >10%. I suspect nobody looks at the Bitcoin price. It's the amount in local currency that matters to the users. On 03/13/20

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Second this comment. A change like this so soon after mt gox debacle would be one more sign of bitcoins 'instability' for skeptics and average folk who read only headlines. In general, it seems some people are looking to try and change the publics mental price of BTC which is more of a non-tech

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 3/13/14, Mike Hearn wrote: >> >> You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, >> which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon. >> > > + > > We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoin to make >> the decision. >> > > Hmmm ;) Didn't you just make an a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > The standard has become mBTC and that's what was adopted. It's too late to > try and sway this on a mailing list thread now. Just saying that doesn't make it so, nor does it make it a good idea. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I agree with you Jeff. The unit switch needs to happen once and once only, but that is exactly why I said the defaults really need to change in Bitcoin-Qt since that is still the main reference implementation and it will influence others. Bitpay could also take the lead here and make the switch to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear in May of last year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psychological value of a low-valued large-balance currency. (From: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220322.msg2334059#msg2334059) "The whole unit change seems so d

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

> > You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, > which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon. > + We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoin to make > the decision. > Hmmm ;) Didn't you just make an assumption about the future price? > This sou

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 3/13/14, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > > > Every volatility bump messes up expectations of what a bitcoin is worth, > so why are we bikeshedding uBTC vs mBTC? Just be done with it and do mBTC > now, and plan uBTC for just after the next price spike to $10KUSD or > whatever, > and then plan on roll

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 03/13/2014 01:51 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > > Well it looks like the consensus is to do it, instead of talking > about it. I'm going to make sure we get uBTC into the next Armory > release. > > > Hmm - be careful with the word "consensus" here. A bunch of people on > a mailing list d

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

> > Well it looks like the consensus is to do it, instead of talking about > it. I'm going to make sure we get uBTC into the next Armory release. > Hmm - be careful with the word "consensus" here. A bunch of people on a mailing list does not make consensus ;) If you survey other wallets, you'll

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thursday, March 13, 2014 4:37:02 PM slush wrote: > Display based on locale. Please don't bring locale into this. Bitcoin has always been intentionally locale-independent (hence BTC using xxx,xxx,xxx.xx format even in locales which swap the commas and periods). Localising display makes differe

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Internal accounting in satoshis. Display based on locale. Problem solved. On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Tamas Blummer wrote: > BTW, its not like this would be the first time this was raised, instead > the "ship left" while ignoring arguments. > > The idea of is up there for votes since March

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 6:36 PM, Alan Reiner wrote: > > On 03/13/2014 01:24 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > Well it looks like the consensus is to do it, instead of talking about > it. I'm going to make sure we get uBTC into the next Armory release. > As default? If so, only for new installs? Or will

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 03/13/2014 01:24 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > > Using milli- and micro- notation for currency units is also not very > well supported. Last time this thread was active, I believe there > was a > suggestion to use 1 XBT == 1 uBTC. > > > Unfortunately I think some people already starte

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

> > Using milli- and micro- notation for currency units is also not very > well supported. Last time this thread was active, I believe there was a > suggestion to use 1 XBT == 1 uBTC. Unfortunately I think some people already started using XBT to mean the same as BTC (another ship that sailed: so

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

It certainly is not subjective, in that people are far more used to dealing with whole numbers than decimals. Try reading the first one, then reading the second one. Tell those numbers to someone else, have them write it down, and see how many people screw up the first vs. the second. This has n

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Mark Friedenbach wrote: > Using milli- and micro- notation for currency units is also not very > well supported. Last time this thread was active, I believe there was a > suggestion to use 1 XBT == 1 uBTC. This would bring us completely within > the realm of suppor

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

This ship may have already sailed, but... Using milli- and micro- notation for currency units is also not very well supported. Last time this thread was active, I believe there was a suggestion to use 1 XBT == 1 uBTC. This would bring us completely within the realm of supported behavior in account

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

> > Even if a cup of coffee costs 3.12345 mBTC, that's a lot more annoying > than 3123.45 uBTC. > This is subjective though. To me the first price looks like the price of a cup of coffee (or I just mentally double it). The second looks like the price of an expensive holiday. If users really find

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Mike is making an assumption that is not necessary, which is the price of the most commonly used unit should be between is $.50 and $1000. The issue to revisit or not shouldn't require $1,000,000 Bitcoin price. Typing a ton of decimals is incredibly annoying. Doing the mental math in my head is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 13 March 2014 16:50, Mike Hearn wrote: > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > >> Such hand-wavy, data-free logic is precisely why community >> coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in >> this manner. >> > > That ship sailed months ago. If you wanted

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

BTW, its not like this would be the first time this was raised, instead the "ship left" while ignoring arguments. The idea of is up there for votes since March 2013 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149150.0 and received the most votes. I remembered this last time on this list here: htt

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Alan Reiner wrote: > Of course, as Mike said, this ship may have already sailed, but if > there's any way to revisit this, I'm there. We're just about to do > another Armory release and could support this very easily. mBTC now just means the issue -will- be revi

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 13.03.2014, at 17:14, Alan Reiner wrote: > We've been working with Marty Zigman who's creating a Bitcoin plugin for > NetSuite accounting platform, and he was already forced to switch > micro-BTC long ago for exactly the reasons described above. I think the > system will track up to 3 decima

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Every volatility bump messes up expectations of what a bitcoin is worth, so why are we bikeshedding uBTC vs mBTC? Just be done with it and do mBTC now, and plan uBTC for just after the next price spike to $10KUSD or whatever, and then plan on rolling back to mBTC when the price crashes from altc

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 04:50:14PM +0100, Mike Hearn wrote: > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > > > Such hand-wavy, data-free logic is precisely why community > > coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in > > this manner. > > > > That ship sailed mon

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 03/13/2014 10:32 AM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: >> BitPay should use mBTC as well. Unless you can point to any major wallets, >> exchanges or price watching sites that use uBTC by default? >> >> I think it is highly optimistic to assume we'll need an

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Such hand-wavy, data-free logic is precisely why community > coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in > this manner. > That ship sailed months ago. If you wanted a big push for uBTC, then would have been the time. T

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I second the name 'bit' for μBTC. On Mar 13, 2014 11:19 AM, "Tamas Blummer" wrote: > Jeff's arguments are understood and supported by those who worked in > finance. > > Existing financial applications have often problems dealing with more than > 2 decimals. > People who work in finance are used t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Jeff's arguments are understood and supported by those who worked in finance. Existing financial applications have often problems dealing with more than 2 decimals. People who work in finance are used to two decimals. Neither systems nor people in finance have a problem with large numbers though

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > BitPay should use mBTC as well. Unless you can point to any major wallets, > exchanges or price watching sites that use uBTC by default? > > I think it is highly optimistic to assume we'll need another 1000x shift any > time soon. By now Bitcoin

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

BitPay should use mBTC as well. Unless you can point to any major wallets, exchanges or price watching sites that use uBTC by default? I think it is highly optimistic to assume we'll need another 1000x shift any time soon. By now Bitcoin isn't obscure anymore. Lots of people have heard about it. G

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Based on this seeming consensus, BitPay was headed towards uBTC internally, and hoped to coordinate messaging and rollout with others in the community. Ah well, proceed apace, and Bitcoin Wallet will catch up, I suppose. Multiple unit changes negatively impact users, but we are already there :/

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Indeed. And users were crying for mBTC. Nobody was asking for µBTC. I must admit I was not aware if this thread. I just watched other wallets and at some point decided its time to switch to mBTC. On 03/13/2014 02:31 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > The standard has become mBTC and that's what was adopted

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Resurrecting this topic. Bitcoin Wallet moved to mBTC several weeks > ago, which was disappointing -- it sounded like the consensus was > uBTC, and moving to uBTC later --which will happen-- may result in > additional user confusion, thanks t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

The standard has become mBTC and that's what was adopted. It's too late to try and sway this on a mailing list thread now. On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Gary Rowe wrote: > The MultiBit HD view is that this is a locale-sensitive presentation > issue. As a result we offer a simple configuratio

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

The MultiBit HD view is that this is a locale-sensitive presentation issue. As a result we offer a simple configuration panel giving pretty much every possible combination: icon, m+icon, μ+icon, BTC, mBTC, μBTC, XBT, mXBT, μXBT, sat along with settings for leading/trailing symbol, commas, spaces

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Resurrecting this topic. Bitcoin Wallet moved to mBTC several weeks ago, which was disappointing -- it sounded like the consensus was uBTC, and moving to uBTC later --which will happen-- may result in additional user confusion, thanks to yet another decimal place transition. On Sun, Nov 17, 201

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

We're with uBTC too. Been waiting for the signal to do this, let's do it right after the fee system is improved. -wendell grabhive.com | twitter.com/hivewallet | gpg: 6C0C9411 On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:03 AM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Go straight to uBTC. Humans and existing computer systems handle num

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

One of the strongest results from psychology is the power of defaults over people's behavior. Opt-in vs. opt-out national organ donation policies mean the difference between organ donation rates under ~10% to over ~90%. Most people sti

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/15/13 5:19 PM, Drak wrote: > Maybe, but again from the user's perspective they pay someone, and > they receive money - just like you do with paypal using an email > address. The technical bits in the middle dont matter to the user > and trying to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 16 November 2013 01:10, Luke-Jr wrote: > On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:41:56 AM Drak wrote: > > So "a payment clears after one confirmation, but you might want to wait > > until the payment has been confirmed n times". > > Then at least you are not using the same word for two different mea

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Nov 15, 2013, at 05:10 PM, Luke-Jr wrote:On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:41:56 AM Drak wrote:So "a payment clears after one confirmation, but you might want to waituntil the payment has been confirmed n times".Then at least you are not using the same word for two different meaningsand you're

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/15/13 4:41 PM, Drak wrote: > For years, people had a problem with "email address", instead > using "email number" but they got there eventually. Most people > nowadays use "email address" So "payment address" or "bitcoin > address" make better s

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:41:56 AM Drak wrote: > So "a payment clears after one confirmation, but you might want to wait > until the payment has been confirmed n times". > Then at least you are not using the same word for two different meanings > and you're using stuff more familiar in popu

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 14 November 2013 23:01, Luke-Jr wrote: > I wonder if it might make sense to bundle some other terminology fixups at > the > same time. > A very good idea. > Right now, Bitcoin-Qt has been using the term "confirmations" (plural) to > refer to how many blocks deep a transaction is buried. We

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:45:41AM +0100, Wladimir wrote: > Good point - For me its too much clutter to show multiple boxes everywhere > (we already support unit conversion by changing the dropdown box in the > amount widget), but I'm going to make the verification dialog show the > totals in all

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Alan, I highly recommend that if we make any move towards this, that the > software show verification in both/all units. > > For instance, there should be 3 input fields, one for "BTC", one for > "mBTC" one for "uBTC". As the user enters a value in one of the fields, it > would automatically upd

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 01:37:56AM -0800, Alex Kravets wrote: > Hi guys, Alex, you're top-posting and not trimming your replies. > I've seen many many non-geeks be utterly intimidated and confused by > 0.000X quantities and/or mBTC & uBTC notation Yes, people really can't tell any differenc

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

While we're discussing the emotive (though actually of real relevance for bitcoin user comprehension and sentiment) I couldnt resisnt to add some trivia reference it is amusing that a currency rarely in history had to deflate (remove 0s) rather than inflate (add 0s). Viz this hyperinflated fifty t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Hi guys, I've seen many many non-geeks be utterly intimidated and confused by 0.000X quantities and/or mBTC & uBTC notation Yes, $10 being rougnly 10,000 Won in South Korean is a great example where large amounts of units work very well in a major economy. FWIW, I would prefer the entire

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 05:53:16PM -0500, Alan Reiner wrote: > I really like the XBT idea. It makes a lot of sense to match the ISO I really don't. Just use the SI prefixes. > currency symbol (though the ISO guys will have to adjust the way they've > defined the "XBT"). And I do agree that goin

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 04:07:58PM -0600, Allen Piscitello wrote: > Obviously the answer is to just display all fees and trading rates as BTC > or MBTC (.005 MBTC fee? how cheap!). On a more serious note, the > transition should definitely be thought out well as it could be very > damaging to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Go straight to uBTC. Humans and existing computer systems handle numbers > to the left of the decimals just fine (HK Dollars, Yen). The opposite is > untrue (QuickBooks really does not like 3+ decimal places). > I have used mBTC for a long ti

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

Hi Jeff, such a vote is up there since March: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149150.0 Votes are in favor of it. Advantages are obvious: 1. having satoshi as 1/100 of the main unit is familiar to people like USD and cent 2. All existing financial software can deal/store big numbers bu

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I disagree. There's a real perception and usability issue with the current interface combined with the current price. People are intimidated by the current system, even though the price really reflects Bitcoin starting to spread its wings (maybe prematurely, bubble-style, but the price will have

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 15 November 2013 01:37, Daniel F wrote: > > This is a decentralized currency, and we should avoid centralizing > > decisions. This is something that impacts the community at large, and > > deserves input and discussion at every level. > > > > I would suggest posting on all possible forums "pr

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

> This is a decentralized currency, and we should avoid centralizing > decisions. This is something that impacts the community at large, and > deserves input and discussion at every level. > > I would suggest posting on all possible forums "proposal: switch to > uBTC, labelled as ISO prefers (XBT

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/14/13 4:15 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: > On Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:11:26 PM Mark Friedenbach wrote: >> "key id" (thanks sipa). > > To be clear, I wasn't suggesting renaming scriptPubKey, which sipa > was talking about with "key id"; just the > de

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:11:26 PM Mark Friedenbach wrote: > On 11/14/13 3:01 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: > > I think we all know the problems with the term "address". People > > naturally compare it to postal addresses, email addresses, etc, > > which operate fundamentally different. I suggest that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Drak wrote: > Unless something is recommended/done by the bitcoin core developers I doubt > much will change at bitcoin user/consumer level. While the sentiment is appreciated, it seems important to gently push back a bit, and remind: This is a decentralized curr

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Mark Friedenbach wrote: > "key id" (thanks sipa). +1, short and accurate -- Jeff Garzik Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- Drea

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:11:26 PM Mark Friedenbach wrote: > "key id" (thanks sipa). > > I know it's a more technical term, but that is rather the point. It > was a fundamental error to call hashed-pubkeys "addresses" as people > either associate this with "account" or physical addresses,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/14/13 3:01 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: > I think we all know the problems with the term "address". People > naturally compare it to postal addresses, email addresses, etc, > which operate fundamentally different. I suggest that we switch to > using "invoi

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:53:16 PM Alan Reiner wrote: > I really like the XBT idea. It makes a lot of sense to match the ISO > currency symbol (though the ISO guys will have to adjust the way they've > defined the "XBT"). And I do agree that going right to uBTC and > skipping mBTC makes s

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:07:58 PM Allen Piscitello wrote: > Obviously the answer is to just display all fees and trading rates as BTC > or MBTC (.005 MBTC fee? how cheap!). On a more serious note, the > transition should definitely be thought out well as it could be very > damaging to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Alan Reiner wrote: > I really like the XBT idea. It makes a lot of sense to match the ISO Indeed. The decimal place move would be an excellent time to switch. Jeff -- DreamFactory

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

I really like the XBT idea. It makes a lot of sense to match the ISO currency symbol (though the ISO guys will have to adjust the way they've defined the "XBT"). And I do agree that going right to uBTC and skipping mBTC makes sense, too. I'd prefer them not be called "micro bitcoins." I really

Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc

On 14 November 2013 22:32, Drak wrote: > On 14 November 2013 22:00, Alan Reiner wrote: > >> Just keep in mind it will be a little awkward that 54.3 uBTC is the >> smallest unit that can be transferred [easily] and the standard fees are >> 500 uBTC.It's not a deal breaker, >> > > The fed was

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