Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:57 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: > Block times are not accurate enough for that. The times in your log are very accurate, assuming your system clock is remotely accurate. -- Jeff Garzik exMULTI, Inc. jgar...@exmulti.com ---

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > which ones are the lazy miners (> 120 seconds since last block). It's important to understand the motivations before acting— otherwise you'll fail to do anything useful. E.g. if they're empty because some miners want to drive up fees or fight

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Luke-Jr
On Friday, May 25, 2012 12:51:09 AM Jeff Garzik wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: > > On Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:33:12 PM Jeff Garzik wrote: > >> Comments? It wouldn't be a problem if these no-TX blocks were not > >> already getting frequent (1 in 20). > > > > FWIW, based

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: > On Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:33:12 PM Jeff Garzik wrote: >> Comments?  It wouldn't be a problem if these no-TX blocks were not >> already getting frequent (1 in 20). > > FWIW, based on statistics for Eligius's past 100 blocks, it seems 10% (1 in > 1

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Luke-Jr
On Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:33:12 PM Jeff Garzik wrote: > Comments? It wouldn't be a problem if these no-TX blocks were not > already getting frequent (1 in 20). FWIW, based on statistics for Eligius's past 100 blocks, it seems 10% (1 in 10) of 1-txn blocks is not actually unreasonable. This als

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Luke-Jr wrote: > These are problematic for legitimate miners: > 1) The freedom to reject transactions based on fees or spam filters, is > severely restricted. As mentioned in other replies, this is an important point > of Bitcoin's design. > 1b) This punishes miner

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Luke-Jr
On Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:33:12 PM Jeff Garzik wrote: > There appears to be some non-trivial mining power devoted to mining > empty blocks. Even with satoshi's key observation -- hash a fixed > 80-byte header, not the entire block -- some miners still find it > easier to mine empty blocks, rathe

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Robert McKay wrote: > If miners wanted to continue mining empty blocks without bothering to > monitor the Tx pool they would just switch to stuffing the empty blocks > with a dummy transaction of their own to get round your new rules. Yes. This was stated in the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Robert McKay
On Thu, 24 May 2012 12:33:12 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: > There appears to be some non-trivial mining power devoted to mining > empty blocks. Even with satoshi's key observation -- hash a fixed > 80-byte header, not the entire block -- some miners still find it > easier to mine empty blocks, rather

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Joel Joonatan Kaartinen wrote: > optimization that avoids rechecking transactions that have already been > verified as valid. Any transactions it doesn't have to verify are from the > pool, of course :) Work in this area is already progressing, though it is outsid

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
I think the strong verification would go well if you add it along with an optimization that avoids rechecking transactions that have already been verified as valid. Any transactions it doesn't have to verify are from the pool, of course :) On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Th

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Arthur Britto
I think you need the stronger change. Otherwise, the mystery miner could just put in a few transactions to himself to mask his block. His block would appear to be of some use while not being helpful. -Arthur On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > There appears to be some non-tr

[Bitcoin-development] Punishing empty blocks?

2012-05-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
There appears to be some non-trivial mining power devoted to mining empty blocks. Even with satoshi's key observation -- hash a fixed 80-byte header, not the entire block -- some miners still find it easier to mine empty blocks, rather than watch the network for new transactions. Therefore I was