Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Alan Reiner
The purpose of creating BIP 0010 now, is to encourage a standard that developers /want/ to adopt, from the outset. Every developer who is planning to touch multi-signature transactions, is going to have to solve the problem of multi-sig tx exchanges, eventually. By offering an excellent solut

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread theymos
For now I think requiring direct-connection negotiation is best for these kinds of things. A direct connection is OK in most cases, and more complicated schemes will be more likely to fail. Maybe the IP transactions protocol can be used. In the future, I imagine that users of ultra-lightweight

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
It's propably best to create a separate p2p network for off-band information like this. No need to involve the blockchain with it. - Joel On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 16:18 -0500, Gavin Andresen wrote: > One more thought on putting arbitrary stuff in the scriptSig: > > Miners could decide to revolt and

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Gavin Andresen
One more thought on putting arbitrary stuff in the scriptSig: Miners could decide to revolt and remove the extra scriptSig information before including the transaction in their blocks. They'd still get the full transaction fee, and the transaction would still validate so the block would be accepte

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Michael Grønager
Crossing posts ;) I like your idea! - It adds a pricetag to distributing a signature - and - as you mention it will be part of the standard. It is only up to the clients if they want to support it or not, but it does give you 0-conf world wide instantaneous anonymously distribution of half-bake

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Michael Grønager
Hi Gavin / Alan, Agree that we would also need to consider these "half" transaction valid. At least for the time being up to the lock_time, and one could have an extra constrain - that the lock_time should be within e.g. 30minutes that would avoid the will-never-be-completed cases. My main con

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Gavin Andresen
> I don't think partially-signed transactions belong on the main Bitcoin > P2P network, mostly because I don't see any way of preventing somebody > from endlessly spamming bogus, will-never-be-completed partial > transactions just to be annoying. ... of course I write that and then start thinking

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Gavin Andresen
> 1. from client1 I issue a transaction containing one of the signatures, with > a locktime e.g. 10 minutes from now and a sequence of 0. This transaction is > now posted to the p2p network. As Alan said, that won't work-- it will not be relayed across the network because it isn't a valid transa

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Alan Reiner
Actually, I'm not sure if your solution works, because it relies on broadcasting a tx to the network that isn't valid. I believe that the first tx in your proposal will be rejected and thus you'll need to exchange the tx's offline. However, third-parties could pretty easily and conveniently h

Re: [Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Alan Reiner
That's what my proposal was for, in BIP 0010: https://github.com/genjix/bips/blob/master/bip-0010.md However, I just found a minor problem with it that should be addressed if we want to enable super-lightweight clients that only sign tx's without needing the blockchain. Simply that the TxIns d

[Bitcoin-development] multisig, op_eval and lock_time/sequence...

2011-11-09 Thread Michael Grønager
Hi All, Along with the multisig/op_eval BIPs (11/12) I am considering how the actual client functionality could be. Some of you might already have the solution for this - if not I would like to propose the following... Lets consider the 2 of 3 multisig - and lets say I now have some coins henc