Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-17 Thread jlspc via bitcoin-dev
Hi aj, I completely agree with your observation that there's an important trust/safety vs. capital-efficiency tradeoff, and I almost completely agree with your analysis. > (There are probably ways around this with additional complexity: eg, > you could peer with a dedicated node, and have the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-17 Thread jlspc via bitcoin-dev
Hi Rusty, > I've read the start of the paper on my vacation, and am still > digesting it. But even so far, it presents some delightful > possibilities. Great! > As with some other proposals, it's worth noting that the cost of > enforcement is dramatically increased. It's no longer one

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-17 Thread jlspc via bitcoin-dev
Hi Antoine, Thanks for your note. Responses are in-line below: > Hi John, > Thanks for the proposal, few feedback after a first look. > > If Bitcoin and Lightning are to become widely-used, they will have to > be adopted by casual users who want to send and receive bitcoin, but > who > do not

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Actuarial System To Reduce Interactivity In N-of-N (N > 2) Multiparticipant Offchain Mechanisms

2023-09-17 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On September 8, 2023 3:27:38 PM HST, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev wrote: >Now, suppose that participant A wants B to be assured that >A will not double-spend the transaction. >Then A solicits a single-spend signature from the actuary, >getting a signature M: > >current state +

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Actuarial System To Reduce Interactivity In N-of-N (N > 2) Multiparticipant Offchain Mechanisms

2023-09-17 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Dave, Sent with Proton Mail secure email. --- Original Message --- On Monday, September 18th, 2023 at 12:12 AM, David A. Harding wrote: > > On September 8, 2023 3:27:38 PM HST, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: > > > Now, suppo

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-17 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning John, > On the other hand, if the consensus rules are changed to allow even simple > covenants, this scaling bottleneck is eliminated. > The key observation is that with covenants, a casual user can co-own an > off-chain Lightning channel without having to sign all (or any) of the