Re: [bitcoin-dev] Lightning Network's effect on miner fees

2015-10-14 Thread Daniel Stadulis via bitcoin-dev
It makes economic sense to include a transaction on the Lightning Network, iff the the fee to include the transaction on the blockchain is more than than the Time Value of Money of the encumbered funds on the Lightening Nodes amortized across the number of users pushing funds through a LN node. La

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Lightning Network's effect on miner fees

2015-10-14 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
On 10/14/2015 6:37 PM, s7r wrote: > On 10/14/2015 6:19 PM, Paul Sztorc wrote: > > LN transactions are a substitute good for on-chain transactions. > > > Therefore, demand for on-chain transactions will decrease as a > > result of LN, meaning that fees will be lower than they would > > otherwise be.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Lightning Network's effect on miner fees

2015-10-14 Thread Daniel Newton via bitcoin-dev
You could make the same argument about changetip, coinbase, bitstamp or any other entity that operates off chain transactions. 1) There is probably no way of blocking them or enforcing fee collection from entities that operate off chain transactions 2) They all have to settle on chain eventually

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Lightning Network's effect on miner fees

2015-10-14 Thread s7r via bitcoin-dev
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 10/14/2015 6:19 PM, Paul Sztorc wrote: > LN transactions are a substitute good for on-chain transactions. > > Therefore, demand for on-chain transactions will decrease as a > result of LN, meaning that fees will be lower than they would > otherwi

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Lightning Network's effect on miner fees

2015-10-14 Thread Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev wrote: > However, the two are also perfect compliments, as LN transactions cannot take > place at all without periodic on-chain transactions. Additionally, lightning network hot wallets are not an ideal place to store large quantities

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Lightning Network's effect on miner fees

2015-10-14 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
LN transactions are a substitute good for on-chain transactions. Therefore, demand for on-chain transactions will decrease as a result of LN, meaning that fees will be lower than they would otherwise be. However, the two are also perfect compliments, as LN transactions cannot take place at all wi

[bitcoin-dev] Lightning Network's effect on miner fees

2015-10-14 Thread s7r via bitcoin-dev
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hello, I am reading about the Lightning Network and the BIPs which need to be deployed until it can be fully functional. I have to say it's a neat solution to scale and have almost instant transactions in a peer 2 peer, distributed and trustless way