Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-24 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at 21:43, Peter Todd wrote: > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 02:02:24PM +0200, Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 at 23:07, Greg Sanders wrote: > > > > > A large number of coins/users sit on custodial rails and this would

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-24 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
There are many countermeasures that can be done, we've only implemented a subset of them as more haven't been needed. Mainly we wait some time to make sure any conflicting transaction has time to propagate on the network. We have well connected nodes with basic redundancy. When they are available

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-21 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
gacy >> patterns and features, preventing progress, at which point do we want to >> break compatibility with them? >> >> Best, >> Sergej >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 3:59 PM Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev < >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfound

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-21 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
ress, at which point do we want to break compatibility with them? Best, Sergej On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 3:59 PM Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev >> wrote: &g

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-21 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 at 21:58, Anthony Towns wrote: > So, what I'm hearing is: > > * lightning works great, but is still pretty small > * zeroconf works great for txs that opt-out of RBF > * opt-in RBF is a pain for two reasons: > - people don't like that it's not treated as zeroconf >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-21 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
This is factually incorrect and not required for us to do what we do. On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at 00:13, Peter Todd wrote: > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 05:58:41AM +1000, Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-20 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
umptions about what will be propagated and mined. > > Best regards, > Ruben > > > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 2:44 PM Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 at 09:22, Anthony Towns wrote: >&

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-20 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
rticular, let's try from all sides to find more ways to create more interaction on these topics. I've pinged a few colleagues that work on payments in the space and hope they will chime in more in this forum! All the best, Sergej > Le mer. 19 oct. 2022 à 10:33, Sergej Kotliar via

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-20 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 at 09:22, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 04:29:57PM +0200, Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > The > > biggest risk in accepting bitcoin payments is in fact not zeroconf risk > > (it's actually quite easily managed), &g

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-19 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
9 Oct 2022 at 17:43, Jeremy Rubin wrote: > If they do this to you, and the delta is substantial, can't you sweep all > such abusers with a cpfp transaction replacing their package and giving you > the original txn? > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 7:33 AM Sergej Kotliar via bi

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-19 Thread Sergej Kotliar via bitcoin-dev
Hi all, Chiming in on this thread as I feel like the real dangers of RBF as default policy aren't sufficiently elaborated here. It's not only about the zero-conf (I'll get to that) but there is an even bigger danger called the american call option, which risks endangering the entirety of BIP21 "Sc