Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin scripting and lisp

2022-03-05 Thread Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev
The circuit generated from Simplicity was larger than the hand made one. On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 6:20 PM ZmnSCPxj wrote: > Good morning Russell, > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 8:41 AM Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > > > It seems like a decent con

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recurring bitcoin/LN payments using DLCs

2022-03-05 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
This may be of interest: https://github.com/sapio-lang/sapio/blob/01830132bbbe39c3225e173e099f6e1a0611461c/sapio/examples/subscription.py Basically, a (old, python) sapio contract whereby you can make cancellable subscriptions that are essentially a time based autopay scheme whereby cancellation

Re: [bitcoin-dev] One testnet to rule them all

2022-03-05 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
Signet degrades to a testnet if you make your key OP_TRUE. It's not about needing 21M coins it's about easily getting access to said coins for testing, where it's kinda tricky to get testnet coins. On Sat, Mar 5, 2022, 6:17 PM wrote: > > There's no point to pegging coins that are worthless int

Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin scripting and lisp

2022-03-05 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Russell, > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 8:41 AM Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > > It seems like a decent concept for exploration. > > > > AJ, I'd be interested to know what you've been able to build with Chia Lisp > > and what your experience has been... e.g. what does the Ligh

Re: [bitcoin-dev] `OP_FOLD`: A Looping Construct For Bitcoin SCRIPT

2022-03-05 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Billy, > It sounds like the primary benefit of op_fold is bandwidth savings. > Programming as compression. But as you mentioned, any common script could be > implemented as a Simplicity jet. In a world where Bitcoin implements jets, > op_fold would really only be useful for scripts

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recurring bitcoin/LN payments using DLCs

2022-03-05 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Chris, > I think this proposal describes arbitrary lines of pre-approved credit from a > bitcoin wallet. The line can be drawn down with oracle attestations. You can > mix in locktimes on these pre-approved lines of credit if you would like to > rate limit, or ignore rate limiting

Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin scripting and lisp

2022-03-05 Thread Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev
On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 8:41 AM Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > It seems like a decent concept for exploration. > > AJ, I'd be interested to know what you've been able to build with Chia > Lisp and what your experience has been... e.g. what does the Li

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Draft Submission

2022-03-05 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
If you're serious about this, you should write up considerations around using the satoshi as a unit. That unit has none of the problems you describe. Satoshis is already a well accepted unit, and is likely to be a very practical one that might match within an order of magnitude of (the current buyi

Re: [bitcoin-dev] `OP_FOLD`: A Looping Construct For Bitcoin SCRIPT

2022-03-05 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
It sounds like the primary benefit of op_fold is bandwidth savings. Programming as compression. But as you mentioned, any common script could be implemented as a Simplicity jet. In a world where Bitcoin implements jets, op_fold would really only be useful for scripts that can't use jets, which woul

Re: [bitcoin-dev] One testnet to rule them all

2022-03-05 Thread vjudeu via bitcoin-dev
> There's no point to pegging coins that are worthless into a system of also > worthless coins, unless you want to test the mechanism of testing pegging. But testing pegging is what is needed if we ever want to introduce sidechains. On the other hand, even if we don't want sidechains, then the q

Re: [bitcoin-dev] One testnet to rule them all

2022-03-05 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
There's no point to pegging coins that are worthless into a system of also worthless coins, unless you want to test the mechanism of testing pegging. As is, it's hard enough to get people set up on a signet, if they have to run two nodes and then scramble to find testnet coins and then peg them we

[bitcoin-dev] One testnet to rule them all

2022-03-05 Thread vjudeu via bitcoin-dev
In testnet3, anyone can become a miner, it is possible to even mine a block on some CPU, because the difficulty can drop to one. In signet, we create some challenge, for example 1-of-2 multisig, that can restrict who can mine, so that chain can be "unreliably reliable". Then, my question is: why

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recurring bitcoin/LN payments using DLCs

2022-03-05 Thread Chris Stewart via bitcoin-dev
Hey ZmnSCPxj, I thought about this for a few days and I think you are right. In the case of recurring payments this is identical to nLocktime. When doing recurring payments with this scheme, you probably want to rate limit subsequent UTXOs _with_ nlocktimes to make sure a malicious Netflix can't w

Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin scripting and lisp

2022-03-05 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
It seems like a decent concept for exploration. AJ, I'd be interested to know what you've been able to build with Chia Lisp and what your experience has been... e.g. what does the Lightning Network look like on Chia? One question that I have had is that it seems like to me that neither simplicit

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Annex Purpose Discussion: OP_ANNEX, Turing Completeness, and other considerations

2022-03-05 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 5:59 AM Anthony Towns wrote: > On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 11:21:41PM +, Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > I've seen some discussion of what the Annex can be used for in Bitcoin. > > > https://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/taproot-bip-review/2019/taproot-bip-review.201