Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev
On 11/01/2015 07:30 PM, Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev wrote: > If at least one year's notice was given, then people aren't going to > lose their money, since they have notice. So after realizing that I misread substantial portions of this thread due to a lack of attention to detail I'd like to point

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 113: Median time-past is a HARDfork, not a softfork!

2015-11-01 Thread Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev
On Monday, November 02, 2015 4:27:50 AM jl2...@xbt.hk wrote: > Currently, a tx maybe included in a block only if its locktime (x) is > smaller than the timestamp of a block (y) > > BIP113 says that a tx maybe included in a block only if x is smaller > than the median-time-past (z) > > It is alrea

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 113: Median time-past is a HARDfork, not a softfork!

2015-11-01 Thread jl2012 via bitcoin-dev
Currently, a tx maybe included in a block only if its locktime (x) is smaller than the timestamp of a block (y) BIP113 says that a tx maybe included in a block only if x is smaller than the median-time-past (z) It is already a consensus rule that y > z. Therefore, if x < z, x < y The new rul

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev
I guess by "locked transaction" you must mean a P2SH output? If so, that's a rather bizarre use of terms since outputs and transactions are very different things. 0xEAD9E623.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Are there actually any OP_CAT scripts currently in the utxo set? > A locked transaction could pay to an OP_CAT script with the private key being lost. Even if it is only in theory, i

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev
On Monday, November 02, 2015 12:23:27 AM Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev wrote: > It's a lot easier to justify the position: "nobody has the right to > change the meaning of someone else's outputs", than it is to justify, > "some small group of people gets to decide what's standard and what > isn't,

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev
On 11/01/2015 05:46 PM, Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev wrote: > An OP_CAT script that requires TBs of RAM to validate crosses the > threshold of reasonableness. Are there actually any OP_CAT scripts currently in the utxo set? It's one thing to have a theoretical scripting ability that gets removed b

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 5:28 PM, jl2012 via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I think it is very important to make it clear that non-standard txs and > non-standard scripts may become invalid in the future > There can be unavoidable situations which cause locked coins b

[bitcoin-dev] BIP 113: Median time-past is a HARDfork, not a softfork!

2015-11-01 Thread Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev
BIP 113 makes things valid which currently are not (any transaction with a locktime between the median time past, and the block nTime). Therefore it is a hardfork. Yet the current BIP describes and deploys it as a softfork. Furthermore, Bitcoin Core one week ago merged #6566 adding BIP 113 logic

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread jl2012 via bitcoin-dev
My answer is simply "No", you don't have to maintain backward compatibility for non-standard tx. The same question applies to P2SH. Before the deployment of BIP16, one could have created a time-locked tx with one of the output was in the form of HASH160 EQUAL. The , however, is not a hash of

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Compatibility requirements for hard or soft forks

2015-11-01 Thread Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev
On 10/30/2015 10:43 PM, Rusty Russell via bitcoin-dev wrote: > By that benchmark, we should aim for "reasonable certainty". A > transaction which would never have been generated by any known software > is the minimum bar. Adding "...which would have to be deliberately > stupid with many redundant