Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 18:02 -0500, Ted Gould wrote: > I agree with the problems. I'm not sure that just a list solves them, > especially without a very transparent membership requirements. Ted, Thanks for your post, I think you've explained the same thoughts but in a much better way. I also tho

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

> > > My only reservation with this is that I had hoped for Ayatana work not to > be limited to Ubuntu. It is socially more difficult to engage upstreams if > they feel they will be prejudicing other distributions by doing so. But on > balance, it's probably worth the risk. > > Is there anything Ub

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

I think it's a great idea to integrate this into the existing Ubuntu structure. I like the idea of having a structure that mimics what we have in place in other areas of participation in the project - with a leadership team, and members who have "crossed the threshold", and others free to contribu

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

A team with a clear common goal is needed. I was trying to help define that common goal by proposing having a list of UX principles for Ubuntu. As Thorsten mentioned, there are people who wouldn't want to comply because they are

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 10:52 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > I don't think we can succeed if we work on a list that is free for > everyone to throw their ideas onto. I'm thinking that we need to > create an invitation-only list (which is publicly archived) alongside > this one. I understand what

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

Hey Mark, On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 10:52 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > This will be a controversial mail, so I'll ask in advance that we not > let it get heated. Considering the forewarning, I've given myself a few minuets to consider all the considerations, concerns and things of note I want to

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

This is my first contribution to this list. I have lurked in the background, merely watching and learning. And I would really like to continue to do so. I don't actually know how the list is archived, but it would be nice if I could continue to receive the emails, even if I never contribute again.

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:52:16 +0100 Mark Shuttleworth wrote: >I'm thinking that we need to create an invitation-only list (which is publicly archived) alongside this one. This is similar in concept to the ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-devel-discuss split that was controversial when it happened, but i

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

Given that fact that this is your mailing list, I appreciate the fact that you would discuss this fact with us. If the closed list is simply a conduit for Canonical's internal developers to communicate about the nitty gritty details of of architecture, then of course do it. You'd be silly not to.

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

Ayatana's mailing list. I fear the effect would be a silent community. Best regards Nicklas W Bjurman From: Mark Shuttleworth To: Ayatana List Sent: Fri, October 16, 2009 11:52:16 AM Subject: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma This will be a controversial

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Of course, that would happen through a list in which anyone who wanted to > join was welcome (this would also be a good place to find additional people > to invite to the core list). > OK, misunderstood you then. That sounds very reason

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 10:52 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > I don't think we can succeed if we work on a list that is free for > everyone to throw their ideas onto. I'm thinking that we need to > create an invitation-only list (which is publicly archived) alongside > this one. A while ago I adv

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

I understand that users do not always consider all facets of why or why not something is good design. I also understand that a design team exists by Canonical and there's a difference between "I want notifications in the middle of my screen cause that's where I see it best." vs. valid input that g

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

Fabian A. Scherschel wrote: > - Still provide a means for people not on the "inner circle" invite > list to give input Of course, that would happen through a list in which anyone who wanted to join was welcome (this would also be a good place to find additional people to invite to the core list). >

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

My thoughts, I don't see this idea as being all that bad. There is nothing non-open about having a team working on final decisions "behind closed doors". Because there will _always_ be a vehemently angered group of people in every decision made about Ubuntu, I don't see how it's remotely possibl

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

I have to say its resonable enough. Canonical is a company and is free to set their own priorities. As long as the decisions made are open to discussion its ok to have a more closed discussion. We already have brainstorm for an idea dump, that people can comment and vote on. So how about making a s

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

I agree with your decision. Art and design are something subjective and it's hard to set a direction if everyone wants the things to be done their way. I also believe in the UX and DX teams, who have given us real facts of their skill : Xsplash, the new GDM, messaging indicator, U1... In the end,

Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

With all due respect, I think that design decisions within Ubuntu are already pretty closed to anyone not in the know who has contacts to all the right people. This move would make the situation even worse. I understand the reasons for doing it though. Therefore, I have two proposals: - Still pro

[Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

This will be a controversial mail, so I'll ask in advance that we not let it get heated. I don't think we can succeed if we work on a list that is free for everyone to throw their ideas onto. I'm thinking that we need to create an invitation-only list (which is publicly archived) alongside this o