[Ayatana] Dash should be in full screen by default in desktop

Dash in full screen looks better. Thanks. -- This message was sent from Launchpad by Muhammad Nabil (https://launchpad.net/~ghogaru) using the "Contact this team" link on the Ayatana Discussion team page (https://launchpad.net/~ayatana). For more information see https://help.launchpad.net/YourAcco

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

I don't think the issue is using titles to display status; rather using menus. Look at Rhythmbox, Gnome Calculator, Empathy, and a few others. On Mar 16, 2011 9:28 PM, "Saleel Velankar" wrote: > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 6:58 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > >> Do you know of any Ubuntu application

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 6:58 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > Do you know of any Ubuntu application that was trying to use its menu > titles as an "indicator" in the first place? > > - -- > mpt > Firefox, private browsing mode. the tilebar is how private mode status is conveyed to user. -- Salee

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On 16.03.2011 18:08, David wrote: Hi, i just want to add my 2cts (but its to late for natty so you need to continue anyway ;-)) i think we should really let the user choose and just discussing about the best default. See settings.png Yes, I totally agree on that! __

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On 16.03.2011 10:23, Marc Lajoie wrote: Advantages to current setup: Increases free vertical space; removes visual clutter; creates a disincentive to use the menu as an "indicator" conveying useful information for which it's not suited (more standardized and consistent menu headings across di

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 03/16/2011 02:59 PM, Lee Hyde wrote: On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote: If you are not under too tight constraints, the questionshouldn't be how something is being done, not even how users would like to do it, but rather: how should they do it? I thoroughly disagree with this asse

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 16/03/11 17:16, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > You actually don't disagree with the assesment, because to do so, you > would have to understand what I said, instead of just loading off stuff > that is bugging you, but has nothing to do with my post. I used my own frustrations to illustrate a point and

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 03/16/2011 02:59 PM, Lee Hyde wrote: On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote: If you are not under too tight constraints, the questionshouldn't be how something is being done, not even how users would like to do it, but rather: how should they do it? I thoroughly disagree with this assessme

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

Hi, > I think more thought should be put into tools and > processes, so design experimentation can be accelerated and opened up to > more people. that's exactly why i am doing this unity web implementation. just at the moment i have more fun doing mockups than continuing add more elements of unit

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 16/03/11 15:00, Mitja Pagon wrote: > You picked the wrong example as "left-aligned" windows controls were not > a design decision "per se", but rather a decision based on Mark > Shuttleworth's own personal preference, as stated by himself. Never-the-less it was a design decision, simply one han

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 03/16/2011 02:21 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Wednesday, March 16, 2011 09:01:59 am Thorsten Wilms wrote: Sometimes the problem may be certain users stubbornness rather than anything else, especially if you design for the long term. So the answer may have to be wrapped up in a strategy to

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

I agree time to sign off, as this discussion is going nowhere and it's not really contributing much to anything anymore. Just remember, designers are you friends ;) Cheers, Mitja - Original Message - From: "Marc Lajoie" To: "Mitja Pagon" Cc: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net, "Lee Hyd

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

And you intend to understand your target audience's needs without including it in the discussion? Marc Lajoie ps. Where's your science that says that users resist changing their work-flow based "more [on] ... fear of change and the unknown"? Isn't it possible their preferences are not completely

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

There is absolutely nothing wrong with full-screen writing software from design perspective, actually they make a lot of sense in that particular case (backed by science), it's just that that doesn't make full-screen an optimal case for every application. I suspect that you are somewhat misint

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

You picked the wrong example as "left-aligned" windows controls were not a design decision "per se", but rather a decision based on Mark Shuttleworth's own personal preference, as stated by himself. Cheers, Mitja - Original Message - From: "Lee Hyde" To: "t w " Cc: ayatana@lists

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

I am a writer. I write fiction using my computer, which for me is a creative tool. My workflow is maybe chaotic, sometimes illogical, but it works for me. An interface that is not flexible enough to adapt to my creative workflow is a system I will not use. I am not about to change the way I create

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > If you are not under too tight constraints, the questionshouldn't be > how something is being done, not even how users would like to do it, but > rather: how should they do it? I thoroughly disagree with this assessment of UI/X design for the following re

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Wednesday, March 16, 2011 09:42:17 am Vishnoo wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 08:42 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > Else, we are in a huge mess, if they are lacking communication too.. :s > > > > A bug is a bug no matter who files it. If we're down to it's only a real > > bug if certain peo

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 08:42 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > > Else, we are in a huge mess, if they are lacking communication too.. :s > > A bug is a bug no matter who files it. If we're down to it's only a real bug > if certain people file the bug, then that's a real problem. > > Scott K

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On Wednesday, March 16, 2011 09:01:59 am Thorsten Wilms wrote: > On 03/16/2011 01:35 PM, Marc Lajoie wrote: > > A better analogy would be engineers designing a professional baking oven. > > The engineer insists, "No, you know nothing about heat flow, etc. This > > is how the oven should be designed

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > Especially given the huge role habituation and familiarity play in early > evaluation of concepts and implementations by users. > > It's a small step from workflow to ritual. > > Sometimes the problem may be certain users stubbornness rather than > anyth

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On 03/16/2011 01:35 PM, Marc Lajoie wrote: A better analogy would be engineers designing a professional baking oven. The engineer insists, "No, you know nothing about heat flow, etc. This is how the oven should be designed." The baker answers, "But that doesn't correspond to the way I cook!" A c

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Wednesday, March 16, 2011 08:35:32 am Vishnoo wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 08:37 -0300, Conscious User wrote: > > You completely missed my point. Yes, I'm talking about the lack of > > communication between the design team and the community, > > yup, I replied to only that part of your mail..

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Sladen wrote on 16/03/11 11:29: > > On Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: >> >> Do you know of any Ubuntu application that was trying to use its menu >> titles as an "indicator" in the first place? > > The Gimp and various other MDI app

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 08:37 -0300, Conscious User wrote: > > > You completely missed my point. Yes, I'm talking about the lack of > communication between the design team and the community, yup, I replied to only that part of your mail.. and referred only to that part as being re-hashed.. :-) >

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

I gladly concede the point. But that's exactly the sort of situation that requires interaction, conversation in order to resolve. Coming back to the analogy of having bakers design a nuclear reactor: I find this to be a faulty analogy. A better analogy would be engineers designing a professional b

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:00:35 AM Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > (It would be interesting to replace maximization with a standard > function that really *does* make "all the available screen space ... > dedicated to this window".) This is one of the most hated features in osx, imo. It takes

Re: [Ayatana] Consolidated Keyboard Indicator (or: Polyglots need love, too)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marc Lajoie wrote on 15/03/11 15:22: > > Hey, wow, I see you guys are already way ahead of me on this one. > So how can I help? Is there already some code on this that I can hack > on? >... The existing menu is part of gnome-settings-daemon.

Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Marc Lajoie wrote: > to voice my opinion on what sort of interface There is another harder part, which is that the idea doesn't always correspond to the solution. For example, "I want the wall to be orange" could (after much further investigation) turn actually to be a reques

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

Design may or may not be an exact science--about the facts, as you say--but what people actually prefer certainly isn't. There may be occasions when the majority of people would prefer a slightly sub-optimal solution to the design-dictated optimal solution, for aesthetic reasons for which no adequa

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

> Is it a coincidence that the two of them worked in Open source projects > _before_ joining Canonical design team..? ;-) > > This topic has been hashed, re-hashed over-n-over again several times.. > I, for one, definitely see a huge improvement in communication from the > design team. Several m

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

Not off the top of my head (which is not an admission that such applications don't exist, I just don't have time to hunt through my app catalogue right now). But one of the solutions proposed for the hidden menu problem, that of not showing the title at all for maximized windows, would probably lea

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > Do you know of any Ubuntu application that was trying to use its menu > titles as an "indicator" in the first place? The Gimp and various other MDI applications prepend an asterisk ('*') to the front of the window title to show an edited, but unsav

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Saleel Velankar wrote on 15/03/11 19:39: > > On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:34:52 PM Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: >> >> I have a simple proposal to fix these problems: The application title >> should be removed from Unity's menu bar. > > Possibly. The titl

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marc Lajoie wrote on 16/03/11 09:23: >... > Advantages to current setup: Increases free vertical space; removes > visual clutter; creates a disincentive to use the menu as an > "indicator" conveying useful information for which it's not suited > (more

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Coulson wrote on 15/03/11 18:44: > On Tue, 2011-03-15 at 17:34 +, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: >... >> I have a simple proposal to fix these problems: The application title >> should be removed from Unity's menu bar. I'm reliably informed that

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Tue, 2011-03-15 at 21:17 -0300, Conscious User wrote: > > Remco wrote: > > The thing I find jarring is that we have this mysterious design > > team that basically discusses things behind our backs here at > > Ayatana. I understand that a small team with face-to-face > > meetings can be benefici

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

Peace indeed. I'm not implying that you or anyone else is stupid, I'm stating, and as irritating as it might be to you, the fact, that most people on here (most, not all) don't understand what interaction design is about (and that implies lack of understading, not supidity), and you just proved

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

On Tue, 2011-03-15 at 17:34 +, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > After several weeks of trying, last week I finally succeeded in > installing Natty to test Unity. > > I was disappointed to see that in Unity, menus are invisible until you > mouse

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

You can drop the ad hominem attacks. The everyone's-stupid-but-me attitude is not very productive. Advantages to current setup: Increases free vertical space; removes visual clutter; creates a disincentive to use the menu as an "indicator" conveying useful information for which it's not suited (mo

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

And what may those advantages be? Not every application is a web browser and not all applications are the same, so this "trend" Chrome supposedly started does not automatically apply to all and every application. Also this quest for abolishing menus is complete nonsense propagated by people who

Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity

Le mardi 15 mars 2011 à 16:37 -0700, Dylan McCall a écrit : > > After several weeks of trying, last week I finally succeeded in > > installing Natty to test Unity. > > > > I was disappointed to see that in Unity, menus are invisible until you > > mouse over where they are supposed to be. For a wind