Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > My first thought was that Autoconf is a relatively trivial attack v

Re: compressed release distribution formats (was: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor)

2024-04-02 Thread Jacob Bachmeyer
Eric Blake wrote: [adding in coreutils, for some history] [...] At any rate, it is now obvious (in hindsight) that zstd has a much larger development team than xz, which may alter the ability of zstd being backdoored in the same way that xz was, merely by social engineering of a lone maintainer

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Jacob Bachmeyer
Richard Stallman wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > My first thought was that Autoconf is a relatively triv

Re: checking aclocal m4 files (was: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor)

2024-04-02 Thread Jacob Bachmeyer
Bruno Haible wrote: Jacob Bachmeyer wrote: Another related check that /would/ have caught this attempt would be comparing the aclocal m4 files in a release against their (meta)upstream sources before building a package. This is something distribution maintainers could do without cooperatio

Re: binary data in source trees (was: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor)

2024-04-02 Thread Jacob Bachmeyer
Richard Stallman wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The issue seems to be releases containing binary data f

Re: reproducible dists and builds (was: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor)

2024-04-02 Thread Jacob Bachmeyer
Richard Stallman wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > What would be helpful is if `make dist' would guarantee

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 6:05 PM Karl Berry wrote: > > I'm also wondering whether the GNU system should recommend using zstd > instead of or in addition to xz for compression purposes. > > I'm not sure GNU explicitly recommends anything. Although the tarball > examples in standards.texi and

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On 4/2/24 16:42, Richard Stallman wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > My first thought was that Autoconf i

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Karl Berry
I'm also wondering whether the GNU system should recommend using zstd instead of or in addition to xz for compression purposes. I'm not sure GNU explicitly recommends anything. Although the tarball examples in standards.texi and maintain.texi all use gz, I don't think even gz is explicitly

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
I'm also wondering whether the GNU system should recommend using zstd instead of or in addition to xz for compression purposes. Automake gained support for dist-zstd back in 2019 [1], but I'm not sure how many projects are using it yet. [1] https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/automake.git/commit/?

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Richard Stallman
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The issue seems to be releases containing binary data for unit tests, > instea

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Richard Stallman
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > My first thought was that Autoconf is a relatively trivial attack vector > sin

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Richard Stallman
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There is not much one can do when a maintainer with signing/release > power do

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Richard Stallman
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There is not much one can do when a maintainer with signing/release > power do

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Richard Stallman
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > What would be helpful is if `make dist' would guarantee to produce the same > t

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Eric Blake
[adding in coreutils, for some history] On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 12:55:35PM -0400, Eric Gallager wrote: > I was recently reading about the backdoor announced in xz-utils the > other day, and one of the things that caught my attention was how > (ab)use of the GNU build system played a role in allowi

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Bruno Haible
Jacob Bachmeyer wrote: > Another related check that /would/ have caught this attempt would be > comparing the aclocal m4 files in a release against their (meta)upstream > sources before building a package. This is something distribution > maintainers could do without cooperation from upstream.

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Jose E. Marchesi
> Jose E. Marchesi wrote: >>> Jose E. Marchesi wrote: >>> > [...] > >> I agree that distcheck is good but not a cure all. Any static >> system can be attacked when there is motive, and unit tests are >> easily gamed. >> > The issue s