offsite but your
> onsite is now getting better "Factoring" compression ratios.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> lamont
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:18 PM
> To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Sub
D] On Behalf Of
lamont
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:18 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Hi Curtis,
Unfortunately, this was already the case when I came, client encryption
is the only option and the tapes are needed to be sent to offsite.
I think we need t
VP Data Protection, GlassHouse Technologies
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> lamont
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:29 AM
> To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
>
>
Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
lamont
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:29 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Hi,
What would likely be the de-dupe ratio if tsm clients do archive
processing daily (file level, no tdps) with encryption enabled?
T
23/01/2008 15:47
Subject
Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Please respond to
ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
> As with all questions like this, the answer is "it depends".
> It depends on the
ge-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Wanda Prather
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:42 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Oooh, what a great question!
I'd guess if client encryption is on and working, the dedup ratio shou
essage-
> >From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> >lamont
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:29 AM
> >To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
> >Subject: [ADSM
anuary 23, 2008 8:42 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Oooh, what a great question!
I'd guess if client encryption is on and working, the dedup ratio should
be about 1:1; because the data should never encrypt the same way twice.
On 1/23/08, lamont <[EMA
Oooh, what a great question!
I'd guess if client encryption is on and working, the dedup ratio should be
about 1:1; because the data should never encrypt the same way twice.
On 1/23/08, lamont <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> What would likely be the de-dupe ratio if tsm clients do archive
>
Message-
>From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>lamont
>Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:29 AM
>To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
>Subject: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
>
>Hi,
>What would likely be the de-dupe ratio if tsm clients do
see.
Ben
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
lamont
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:29 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Hi,
What would likely be the de-dupe ratio if tsm clients do archive
proces
Hi,
What would likely be the de-dupe ratio if tsm clients do archive processing
daily (file level, no tdps) with encryption enabled?
Thanks.
+--
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Hi Wanda,
I'm thinking that deduplication might be especially useful for all
those copies of Windows System Objects that are backed up
periodically, for sites that have large numbers of Windows client
nodes. TSM/Windows is unable to back them up incrementally, which
means each backup of a System
"It depends".
Just another thing to think about:
Yes, it sounds cool to reduce the footprint of all those XP files if you
have hundreds of XP systems.
But, at a site where we were backing up about 200 desktops along with
Windoze severs, I sat down and actually spent a bunch of time looking at
wh
half Of
Richard Sims
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:13 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
On Aug 31, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Dave Mussulman wrote:
> ... Avamar said their software got
> 10-20% reduction on a backup of a stock Windows XP installation. A
> sin
On Aug 31, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Dave Mussulman wrote:
... Avamar said their software got
10-20% reduction on a backup of a stock Windows XP installation. A
single system, say it's the first one you added to your backup group.
That's not two users with the same email attachments saved, or
identical
al Message-
From: Dave Mussulman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:34 PM
To: Curtis Preston
Cc: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Data Deduplication
On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:09:09AM -0400, Curtis Preston wrote:
> Unlike a de-dupe VTL that can be used with TSM, d
On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:09:09AM -0400, Curtis Preston wrote:
> Unlike a de-dupe VTL that can be used with TSM, de-dupe backup software
> would replace TSM (or NBU, NW, etc) where it's used. De-dupe backup
> software takes TSM's progressive incremental much farther, only backing
> up new blocks/
Since this message is pretty pro-de-dupe, I want to mention that I don't
sell any of this stuff. I'm just excited about the technology, have
many customers large and small using it, and want to make sure it's
accurately represented.
>"We don't need tape, because disk is cheap!"
>[...hiatus...]
>"
>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:40:34 -0600, Kelly Lipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I'd like to steer this around a bit. Our sales folks are saying
> they are losing TSM opportunities to de-dup vendors. What specific
> business problem are customers trying to solve with de-dup?
> I'm thinking the fo
>I am 100% with you on the "why replicate backup" when you can more
>easily replicate data?!
If you've done away with traditional backup, then I'd agree. If you're
still making tapes (or virtual tapes), then you also want those tapes
offsite. You've got two choices: hand them to a dude in a tr
or Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Kelly Lipp
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:41 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
I'd like to steer this around a bit. Our sales folks are saying they
are losing TSM opportunities to de-dup vendors. What
day, August 29, 2007 3:12 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Kelly,
I have more than 1 customer considering a de-dup VTL product.
It's true that for regular file systems, TSM doesn't redump unchanged
files, so people aren't getting AS LARGE a reduc
07
> 719-266-8777
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Curtis Preston
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:08 PM
> To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Dedupl
At 03:40 PM 8/29/2007, Kelly Lipp wrote:
Help me get it because aside from the typical "I gotta have it
because the trade rags tell me I gotta have it", I don't get it!
Kelly,
I think you are correct in that TSM already gives you some of the
benefits that a more traditional backup product woul
nd to
"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To
ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
>As de-dup, from what I have read, compares across all files
>on a "system" (server, disk storage or whatever), it seems
>to me that this will be an enormous resour
gs, CO 80907
719-266-8777
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Curtis Preston
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:08 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
>As de-dup, from what I have r
>As de-dup, from what I have read, compares across all files
>on a "system" (server, disk storage or whatever), it seems
>to me that this will be an enormous resource hog
Exactly. To make sure everyone understands, the "system," is the
intelligent disk target, not a host you're backing up. A de-
: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Longo
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:46 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
I have been hearing bits and pieces about this de-dup thing.
Several things have me wondering , as folks on this list
o:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
>Dirk Kastens
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:18 AM
>To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
>Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
>
>Hi,
>
>Jon Evans wrote:
> > Dirk
> >
> > I also tried Data Domain and was not impressed. I now use
and non-prod backups should factor very well.
Hopee this helps!
Regards,
Charles Hart
David Longo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
08/29/2007 10:45 AM
Please respond to
"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To
ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
cc
Subject
Re:
I have been hearing bits and pieces about this de-dup thing.
Several things have me wondering , as folks on this list also
testify.
One thing I haven't heard about is performance. Even with TSM
clients,there is the thing not do "compression" on the client
due to performance issues. That is just
on it for de-dupe to work.
---
W. Curtis Preston
Backup Blog @ www.backupcentral.com
VP Data Protection, GlassHouse Technologies
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Dirk Kastens
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:18 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIS
tor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Dirk Kastens
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:18 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Hi,
Jon Evans wrote:
> Dirk
>
> I also tried Data Domain and was not impressed. I now use Diligent's
> Protect
Hi,
Jon Evans wrote:
Dirk
I also tried Data Domain and was not impressed. I now use Diligent's
Protectier and its far more impressive. Its scalable, reasonably priced,
achieves throughput of 200mb per second and better and factoring ratio's
of
Over 10 to 1
We mainly backup normal files and on
SM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
According to Dilligent, when RMAN uses Multiplexing, it intermingles
the
data from each RMAN so the data block will be different every time so
the
blocks are different, similar to Multiplexing with Netbackup... I'm
not
an RMAN exp
ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Dirk Kastens
Sent: 27 August 2007 08:31
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Hi,
> Writing a de-dupe backup product isn't easy. EMC bought Avamar and
> Symantec bought Data Center Technologies to
--Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Paul Zarnowski
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:01 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Curtis - I'm unclear on your terminology. Are you equating "subfile"
to &q
Curtis - I'm unclear on your terminology. Are you equating "subfile"
to "block" level deduping? To me, block level means block
boundaries, whereas subfile doesn't have the boundary
restriction. Perhaps I interpret these words this way because of my
history. To me, a block is a 4K chunk (or 1K
>As others have noted, different vendors dedup at different levels of
>granularity.
I think I'd put it slightly differently. I'd say that they each
approach it differently. Those different approaches may have advantages
and disadvantages with different data types.
>When I spoke to Diligent at
At 12:40 PM 8/27/2007, Curtis Preston wrote:
Every block coming into the device should be compared to every other
block ever seen by the device.
As others have noted, different vendors dedup at different levels of
granularity. When I spoke to Diligent at the Gartner conference over
a year ago
Thanks Curtis!
Charles Hart
UHT - Data Protection
Curtis Preston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
08/27/2007 01:22 PM
Please respond to
"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To
ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
ion, GlassHouse Technologies
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Charles A Hart
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:53 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
According to Dilligent, when RMAN uses Multiplexing, it i
http://unitedteams.uhc.com/uht/EnterpriseStorage/DataProtection/default.aspx
Curtis Preston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
08/27/2007 11:40 AM
Please respond to
"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To
ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: [ADSM-L] Data
nted.
Ben
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Curtis Preston
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:40 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Data Deduplication
>3) Oracle Specific
>Do not use RMAN's Multiplexing i
>Every pitch I've yet seen on de-dupe has glossed over where the
>metadata goes, and how it's defended. If you see a data deduplication
>solution which doesn't take at -least- as much care over the DB as we
>do in TSM land, then my opinion is "Flee at flank s
>3) Oracle Specific
>Do not use RMAN's Multiplexing in RMAN will combine 4
>Channels together and the backup data then will be unique every time
thus
>not allowing forde-duping)
>Use the File Seq=1 (Then run multiple channels)
I don't
t;ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
> 08/27/2007 02:31 AM
> Please respond to
> "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
>
>
> To
> ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>> Writing a de-dupe
At 09:24 AM 8/27/2007, Charles A Hart wrote:
We are seeing 10 and 15:1 on our Oracle and DB2, Exchange 12:1 (The
DB's and Exchange all do Daily Full Backups) In the regular Win
env, we see 1.45 and 2:1 ick...
Charles, how many windows clients was this with? I've been thinking
about this and a
>> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 04:58:45 -0400, "Hughes, George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> said:
> Is TSM planning on adding data deduplication similar to avamar? I
> understand how TSM does not duplicate data now but minor edits in
> files or simple file name changes w
:1 ick...
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Charles
Dirk Kastens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
08/27/2007 02:31 AM
Please respond to
"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To
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cc
Subject
Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Hi,
>
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Dirk Kastens
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:31 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
Hi,
> Writing a de-dupe backup product isn't easy. EMC bought Avamar and
> Symantec bought Data Center Technologies to get their respective
&g
Hi,
Writing a de-dupe backup product isn't easy. EMC bought Avamar and
Symantec bought Data Center Technologies to get their respective
products. I don't know of any other de-dupe companies for IBM to
acquire, so they'll have to write their own. That may take them a bit
longer.
We're just te
>Is TSM planning on adding data deduplication similar to avamar?
As mentioned by Richard, the closest thing TSM has to this now is
subfile backup. It is related to de-duplication, where once it has a
backup of a given file, it backs up only the changed bytes of that file.
This is also refer
But it is being pursued for future release - after the conversion of the DB to
DB2.
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager on behalf of Richard Sims
Sent: Sun 8/26/2007 7:23 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Deduplication
On Aug 26, 2007, at 4:58
On Aug 26, 2007, at 4:58 AM, Hughes, George wrote:
Is TSM planning on adding data deduplication similar to avamar? I
understand how TSM does not duplicate data now but minor edits in
files
or simple file name changes would result in additional copies of the
entire file using TSM today.
Except
Is TSM planning on adding data deduplication similar to avamar? I
understand how TSM does not duplicate data now but minor edits in files
or simple file name changes would result in additional copies of the
entire file using TSM today.
We recently had a pitch from EMC on avamar. I can think of
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