I just installed 9vx under Linux on my eee pc, it's a delight to be able to run
2 or 3 instances of plan 9 with no bother under Linux! I can't really run Plan
9 as my main OS at the moment, but it seems there's not a big performance hit
to run it in 9vx.
I want to say "thanks!" to Russ for packag
I'd like to make a "graphical shell" which could do this sort of thing, it
would also have a textual format for saving and suitable for editing.
I think it would be good to have an equivalent graphical tool for each command
line tool, as powerful as the original one; and an editable graphical
repr
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 06:22:28PM +0800, sqweek wrote:
> http://gsoc.cat-v.org/projects/kencc/
Looks good, I can't seem to find how to download that, is there anonymous hg
access or a tarball at all?
Speaking of hg - I think we should patch it to support empty directories so
that the inferno che
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 11:23:24PM +1000, Sam Watkins wrote:
> Speaking of hg - I think we should patch it to support empty directories so
> that the inferno checkout actually builds.
It's a bit sad when a modern OS (inferno) from one of the best labs in the
world does not build (from
Let's fix this now. Here is a one-line fix, which is simpler and cleaner than
a multi-empty-file commit. My old fix mkdir -p `
hi,
I wanted to have a whinge about one fault I find in unix: commands such as cat,
grep etc. do not handle an empty argument list correctly. For example,
cat
should output nothing and exit - concatenating 0 files. Instead it copies
stdin to stdout, which is inconsistent. This problem still
On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 10:01:09AM -0700, Rob Pike wrote:
> cat * /dev/null
>
> is the recommended solution.
Thanks Rob,
That works with cat, but it won't work with chmod, grep -L, ls, find, file
and many others. I think all of the unix and plan 9 utilities that deal
with a variable number of f
On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:03:27 +1100 Sam Watkins wrote:
> find -name '*.c' | xargs cat | cc -
On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 11:46:16AM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
> Your example doesn't hang (and if it does, your xargs is broken).
hm sorry, I meant:
cat `find -name *.c` | cc -
&
I wrote:
> I don't see how this can be fixed in unix without breaking umpteen million
> shell scripts.
On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 06:12:15AM +0200, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
> By creating new commands with distinct new names.
I thought of a better way. We can fix the commands without breaking
com
sqweek:
> It seems to me the obvious way to gain consistency is to do the list parsing
> in one place only:
hi sqweek,
Thanks for the thoughtful response. You are right, it could be fixed with
another tool like xargs. I wrote a similar tool "modify" which I use to modify
files in place with sta
> you're retaining the inconsistency, but candy-coating it.
No, I'm offering a simple syntax using which one can avoid the inconsistency.
I'm retaining the option to have inconsistent behaviour, for backward
compatibility, and because some people seem to like it for command-line use.
cat *
John Stalker:
> For what it's worth, I agree that it's a problem.
hooray! thanks :)
> Does it need fixing? Implementing it properly would break most shell scripts
> I've written.
Well, I have a fix that should not break any real scripts, I repeat it below.
Russ Cox:
> to the original poster:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 06:50:28PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> > The mention that "... the overhead of cache coherence restricts the ability
> > to scale up to even 80 cores" is also eye openeing. If we're at aprox 8
> > cores today, thats only 5 yrs away (if we double cores every
> > 1.5 yrs)
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:50:48PM +0100, Richard Miller wrote:
> > It's easy to write good code that will take advantage of arbitrarily many
> > processors to run faster / smoother, if you have a proper language for the
> > task.
>
> ... and if you can find a way around Amdahl's law (qv).
"The s
> > There is a vast range of applications that cannot
> > be managed in real time using existing single-core technology.
>
> please name one.
Your apparent lack of imagination surprises me.
Surely you can see that a whole range of applications becomes possible when
using a massively parallel sy
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 04:21:16PM +0100, roger peppe wrote:
> BTW it seems the gates quote is false:
>
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bill_Gates
maybe the Ken quote is false too - hard to believe he's that out of touch
Great idea, I like it :) I'll have a look at the code later.
You're using it on old unix/linux not plan 9 I guess? thanks.
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 05:54:12AM +, Andy Spencer wrote:
> My friend Mike and I were talking a while back about Unix init systems
> and came to the conclusion that mk's
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:18:47PM -0600, Latchesar Ionkov wrote:
> How do you plan to feed data to these 31 thousand processors so they
> can be fully utilized? Have you done the calculations and checked what
> memory bandwidth would you need for that?
I would use a pipelining + divide-and-conque
On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 07:45:40PM +0100, Eris Discordia wrote:
> Another embarrassingly parallel problem, as Sam Watkins pointed out, arises
> in digital audio processing.
The pipelining + divide-and-conquer method which I would use for parallel
systems is much like a series of production
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 01:12:58AM +, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> I would appreciate if the folks who were in the room correct me, but if I'm
> not mistaken Ken was alluding to some FPGA work/ideas that he had done
> and my interpretation of his comments was that if we *really* want to
> make thi
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:05:19PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > Details of the calculation: 7200 seconds * 30fps * 12*16 (50*50 pixel
> > chunks) * 50 elementary arithmetic/logical operations in a pipeline
> > (unrolled). 7200*30*12*16*50 = 20 trillion (20,000,000,000,000)
> > processi
I wrote:
>I calculated roughly that encoding a 2-hour video could be parallelized by a
>factor of perhaps 20 trillion, using pipelining and divide-and-conquer
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 03:16:22AM +0100, matt wrote:
> I know you are using video / audio encoding as an example and there are
> probably
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 09:11:10AM -0700, Russ Cox wrote:
> > Can you give one example of a slow task that you think cannot benefit much
> > from parallel processing?
>
> Rebuilding a venti index is almost entirely I/O bound.
Perhaps I should have specified a processor-bound task. I don't know m
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 04:28:20PM -0700, Sam'l B wrote:
> Is anyone working on making them play nice together? Is it possible, even?
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 04:53:23PM +, Jacob Todd wrote:
> Plan 9 works fine in qemu on both windows (xp at least) and linux.
I found 9vx works well so far.
S
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 08:49:41PM -0700, ron minnich wrote:
> How is it that companies that want you to buy their IT expertise
> outsource their own? It makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense - sell poor service+brand at high price, buy good
service at low price.
Sam
I think my main points were good.
* can parallelize by duplicating subsystems / divide and conquer
* can parallelize by pipelining, even down to the arithmetic level
* latency is limited by Ahmdal's law, potential throughput should not be
* multi-tasking can potentially use close to the fu
> - a factory's line can be brought to a standstill if one of its
> elements breaks;
one would hope that software elements do not break so much
> - a factory 's line is at least as slow as its slowest worker
a slow part of the line can be split / duplicated to use multiple workers
> - if all th
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 01:33:37PM +1100, Bruce Ellis wrote:
> Contact me off list and I'll explain it.
I'd rather like to know why too, if you can post the reason to the list.
Sam
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 01:30:12PM +1100, Bruce Ellis wrote:
> Any one tried a Asus Eee PC T91? I claim it is the best outta the box
> $500 computer available (this week anyway). I'm scribbling on it as I
> speak. Touch/Swivel/Tablet screen, All the usual stuff and gps and tv
> tuner and ... lotsa
VNC or similar "remote desktop" with sound support can be useful for things
like pair-programming over then internet, if you are working on an app or game
that uses sound.
Sam
I don't know how hideously complicated it would be, to implement a module
interface that would support loading linux modules into whatever other OS such
as Plan 9. I suppose it would be vastly simpler than something like "wine" for
example. I think that would be useful, because so many devices ar
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 05:43:35PM +1100, Sam Watkins wrote:
> I don't know how hideously complicated it would be, to implement a module
> interface that would support loading linux modules into whatever other OS
> such as Plan 9.
also perhaps it would be possible to run modul
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 05:51:37PM +1100, Sam Watkins wrote:
> also perhaps it would be possible to run modules in userland, again drivers
> needing access to direct memory-mapped devices and not doing that through the
> kernel might be a problem.
sorry for repeated posting! appare
Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>I've had responsiveness issues when the viewing machine hasn't enough CPU
>power to decode the screen data in real-time. A lot of power seems to be
>needed, my PDA, a 416MHz ARM can't cope with any compression at all, I have
>to limit vncviewer to copyrect and raw en
hi Jun,
It looks interesting. Is there a windoze version under development? I suppose
there are suitable VM systems that run on windoze. Of course your potential
user-base grows if you support windoze! The VM could still run Debian or some
other OS of course.
Your page says it's safe to run a
I have two ideas for io functions that I think would be helpful, they are
alternative options to solve a simple problem really. I don't know if plan 9
has any functions like these already.
For example, when starting a CGI script for a POST request, a httpd reads the
http headers but typically als
On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 08:36:29PM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
> >Another example, a little server that allows connections on a single port
> >443 for https and ssh. Ideally after reading the "GET" or ssh banner, it
> >can just exec whichever server is needed (or fork and exec something like
>
On Sat, Dec 05, 2009 at 01:06:49PM +0900, Jun OKAJIMA wrote:
> Currently not.
> But maybe in the future?
If you want to do that (make it run on windows) you might like to look at
pendrivelinux.com which has various examples of firing up VMs to run linux from
a usb device under windows, the techniq
> the standard way of passing file descriptors is by fork/exec.
> this allows security is handled by the normal means.
Erik/others, would you please give some feedback on my idea (a join call which
connects two fds together and disowns them from the process). Passing fds
around does not solve the
On Sat, Dec 05, 2009 at 08:26:20AM -0500, erik quanstrom wrote:
> if you don't need to modify the data futher, then exec the guy who
> does.
This is my issue - when I want to exec, too much of the request data has
already been read. I don't want to be calling read(fd, buf, 1) in a loop.
I would l
On Sat, Dec 05, 2009 at 12:59:34PM -0800, Bakul Shah wrote:
> You cut out the bit about buffering where I explained what I meant.
Your idea seems good, so long as the OS buffers data and keeps it around until
all readers have consumed it there would be no problem. This would be another
possible s
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 12:24:05PM +, roger peppe wrote:
> if you wanted it, an "fd join" driver could be simply
> implemented in a similar way:
>
> bind '#j4.5' /mnt/joined
> open /mnt/joined/data to get a (read-only) fd that satisfies reads from fd 4
> until eof, then fd 5.
That's not what
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 03:18:38PM -0200, Maur??cio CA wrote:
> I also have an old plan of teaching professional computer
> programming for blind people, since I watched a movie named
> Sneakers, where a blind guy named Whistler uses a computer through
> something that looks like some kind of brail
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:58:30AM +, Tim Climber wrote:
> Is this possible for UNIX philosophy to develop further? Let's say,
> XML-coded trees or graphs instead of one-line strings in stdin/
> stdout.Or LISP S-expressions. New set of utilities for filtering such
> streams, grep for XML trees,
hi,
I am wondering what you think about the capabilities of 9p compared to
http/1.1. Perhaps this seems like an odd comparison, but I think 9p and http
are broadly similar in purpose and functionality. While writing a simple
webserver, I got to thinking that http is really a very capable protoco
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:20:00PM -0500, John Floren wrote:
> Please see lsub's Op and my Streaming talk at the most recent IWP9.
Ok, thanks. I did not know that 9p has latency problems even when reading a
single file. I was talking about pipelining, where you can ask the server to
send a dozen
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