On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:23 AM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Does Plan 9 Port help? I mean, libthread on Plan 9 Port alone could be
>> worth a ton to me in some situations.
>> Concurrent programming for th
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Charles Forsyth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> speaking of higher levels of abstraction:
> given some scientific code i've seen (before this, nothing to do with the
> things
> running on Blue Gene), i'd observe that fixing some of the algorithms used
> (which
> is
you could change the subject line to continue this discussion
for other reasons, but for this particular work on plan 9,
it's not worth getting into a discussion of aspects of belief
in particular C implementations. (just to add a contrasting data point,
at my previous employment we had examples o
> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't these require extensive run-time
> support, in addition to compiler support? Will the run-time libraries
> also be linux libraries running under a compatibility layer?
yes, but the final answer to the second question is unclear,
depending on the library
> Just a dumb question, as i'm totally out of this business, it is easier to
> write an emulator than translate the applications to plan9 c ? (for example)
> or to write (or port) the C++ and Fortran compilers and related tools?
it is easier (in both cases), but it's also not the point. applicat
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:53 AM, Philippe Anel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can you tell us why some things are impossible to scale with 5000 posix
> threads (and easy to scale with 5000 plan 9 style threads) ?
the trivial stuff you deal with first, like the default 8MB thread
stack which makes th
> Obviously depending on the C calls involved, some are re-entrant and some
> are not, and that makes a rather large difference too. You don't want to
> call strtok from two different threads (unless you have thread local storage
> available, then it might be safe).
malloc? it should be availabl
ead "procs",
> in much the same way Haskell "sparks" may end up real threads, or Erlang
> processes, might run in parallel.
>
> Dave
>
>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "ron minnich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: &qu
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 7:01 AM, erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> > I've been writing a lot of Erlang code lately, and I keep thinking about,
> > but not having too much time to do much about, wanting to have a runtime
> for
> > the libthread "threads" that could auto-schedule them to li
"Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:23 AM
Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Blue Gene
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Does Plan 9 Port help? I mean, libthr
> I've been writing a lot of Erlang code lately, and I keep thinking about,
> but not having too much time to do much about, wanting to have a runtime for
> the libthread "threads" that could auto-schedule them to libthread "procs",
> in much the same way Haskell "sparks" may end up real threads, o
t; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Blue Gene
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
hello
thanks for the clarifications Eric and Ron ☺,
btw, if you're planning to go to Greece to the 3rd. iwp9, i would love to see a
real
sheet of these ones:
http://www.atkielski.com/PDF/data/fortran.pdf
☺
slds.
gabi
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:25 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> i'
hello
thanks for the clarifications Eric and Ron ☺,
btw, if you're planning to go to Greece to the 3rd. iwp9, i would love to see a
real
sheet of these ones:
http://www.atkielski.com/PDF/data/fortran.pdf
☺
slds.
gabi
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:25 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> i'
OTECTED]>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:23 AM
Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Blue Gene
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Does Plan 9 Port help? I mean, libthread on
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does Plan 9 Port help? I mean, libthread on Plan 9 Port alone could be
> worth a ton to me in some situations.
> Concurrent programming for the win?
probably not for this community. When we had plan9port in xcpu we got
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:02 PM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:36 PM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > So is there any traction to use the new platform, or is it mostly just
> > people running their familiar apps and writing new apps for their
>
> the mindset that "everything is a Linux". Once you cross that Rubicon
> life gets much easier.
only if it's the rubicon and not the styx.
☺
- erik
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:36 PM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So is there any traction to use the new platform, or is it mostly just
> people running their familiar apps and writing new apps for their familiar
> programming environment?
There are always users who are adventurous. I
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:25 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > i'm asking from a technical point of view, i suppose dealing with the
> current users and customers is the real issue, right?
> >
>
> and tens of m
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:21 AM, erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Obviously Plan 9's compiler
>> isn't optimal.. but what really are the requirements people
>
> really? that depends on your definition of optimal.
> by my definition which heavily rates speed of compliation
> and correc
> Obviously Plan 9's compiler
> isn't optimal.. but what really are the requirements people
really? that depends on your definition of optimal.
by my definition which heavily rates speed of compliation
and correctness, it's sure closer than the competition.
- erik
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:03 AM, don bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Can you elaborate here? What tricks can the IBM compilers use
>> that the Plan 9 ones can't? Are we talking optimization?
yes. Quite impressive optimization. Which results in very high
measured performance. At least when I'
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, don bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Can you elaborate here? What tricks can the IBM compilers use
>> that the Plan 9 ones can't? Are we talking optimization?
>
> No, really, that's not troll bait. I'm actually interested in
> understanding the project's basis f
Can you elaborate here? What tricks can the IBM compilers use
that the Plan 9 ones can't? Are we talking optimization?
>
No, really, that's not troll bait. I'm actually interested in
understanding the project's basis for discriminating against
specific compiler capability. Obviously Plan 9's co
ron minnich wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Steven D. Vormwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't these require extensive run-time
support, in addition to compiler support? Will the run-time libraries also
be linux libraries running under a compatibility
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Steven D. Vormwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't these require extensive run-time
> support, in addition to compiler support? Will the run-time libraries also
> be linux libraries running under a compatibility layer?
binarie
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Benjamin Huntsman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, does that mean that you guys have a version of XLC that can produce Plan
> 9 binaries, or are you using some other method to "convert" it's output?
>
I convert the ELF from the toolchain to a.out. It's very
stra
>What is XLC and where can I find more information on the standard?
XLC is IBM's POWER/PowerPC compiler. It produces great code, but is expensive.
So, does that mean that you guys have a version of XLC that can produce Plan 9
binaries, or are you using some other method to "convert" it's output
1. rewrite apps in plan 9 c. The Plan 9 C compiler is fine for what we
do on Plan 9. For scientific apps, it's not that great a compiler. The
IBM compilers know all the tricks. The effort to get Plan 9 C up to
the standards of XLC is mind-boggling. And XLF? We're not going to
write a Fortran compi
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:41 AM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Build on Linux, run on Plan 9.
So there's not so much a need for gcc & al. to run on Plan 9, as for
them to target it.
(Then we can put the gcc-p9 executables on a handy Linux box
(linuxemu?), and write shell-script wrappe
ron minnich wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Steven D. Vormwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So would developers on this platform be encouraged to use languages and
features currently in plan 9 for HPC development, or would they target
existing HPC languages and features, which would be ad
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:25 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Just a dumb question, as i'm totally out of this business, it is easier to
> write an emulator than translate the applications to plan9 c ? (for example)
> or to write (or port) the C++ and Fortran compilers and related too
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:10 AM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In the HPC world, there is lots of conservatism. There is an editor at
> LANL, named Fred, written in Fortran, that has been in use for longer
> than most of you have been alive. Until very recently, it was a
> required part
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Steven D. Vormwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So would developers on this platform be encouraged to use languages and
> features currently in plan 9 for HPC development, or would they target
> existing HPC languages and features, which would be added to plan 9, e
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Steven D. Vormwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So would developers on this platform be encouraged to use languages and
> features currently in plan 9 for HPC development,
>
It is unlikely that existing features in Plan 9 scale applications (or
system services)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:25 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> i'm asking from a technical point of view, i suppose dealing with the current
> users and customers is the real issue, right?
>
and tens of millions of lines of fortran that no one understands anymore
Its not that we aren't pr
ron minnich wrote:
In the HPC world, there is lots of conservatism. There is an editor at
LANL, named Fred, written in Fortran, that has been in use for longer
than most of you have been alive. Until very recently, it was a
required part of any HPC system.
So, we're doing a binary compatibility
Hello,
Just a dumb question, as i'm totally out of this business, it is easier to
write an emulator than translate the applications to plan9 c ? (for example) or
to write (or port) the C++ and Fortran compilers and related tools?
i'm asking from a technical point of view, i suppose dealing with
In the HPC world, there is lots of conservatism. There is an editor at
LANL, named Fred, written in Fortran, that has been in use for longer
than most of you have been alive. Until very recently, it was a
required part of any HPC system.
So, we're doing a binary compatibility module so we can run
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Roman V. Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Do you have any bits and pieces of the software ecosystem not
> readily available on Plan9 (dreadful things like a C++ compiler)
> covered by these funds or is your intention to use available
> Plan9 userland as-is?
On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 13:47 -0500, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Steven Vormwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is there any (public) information about how plan 9 is/was being used on Blue
> > Gene? The only information I can find seems to be "press release"-type
>
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Steven Vormwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there any (public) information about how plan 9 is/was being used on Blue
> Gene? The only information I can find seems to be "press release"-type
> papers that just say that it runs on Blue Gene, but not what it was
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