Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

2018-09-04 Thread Ori Bernstein
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 09:30:22 +1000, Tyga wrote: > Ha HA ! Good one ! > CPUs, such as Intel/AMD x64 > are vastly more complex so "optimising" C compilers are trying to make > something simple take advantage of something far more complex. Ironically, because of the complexity in the CPUs, many of

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

2018-09-04 Thread Chris McGee
> I believe that the core of the problem with the C language is that is > based upon abstracting the PDP-11 instruction set. CPUs, such as Intel/AMD > x64 are vastly more complex so "optimising" C compilers are trying to make > something simple take advantage of something far more complex. Perhap

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

2018-09-04 Thread Tyga
Ha HA ! Good one ! I believe that the core of the problem with the C language is that is based upon abstracting the PDP-11 instruction set. CPUs, such as Intel/AMD x64 are vastly more complex so "optimising" C compilers are trying to make something simple take advantage of something far more com

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

2018-09-04 Thread Charles Forsyth
Plan 9 C implements C by attempting to follow the programmer's instructions, which is surprisingly useful in systems programming. The big fat compilers work hard to find grounds to interpret those instructions as "undefined behaviour". On Sun, 2 Sep 2018 at 17:32, Chris McGee wrote: > Hi All, >

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

2018-09-04 Thread Chris McGee
> > Could even be that the many-eyes approach encouraged the complexity; > > in fact, that could easily be the unintended consequence. > > I suppose it made complexity seem less bad, for a while, but I was > thinking economic factors likely drove it to get more complex. Also, I get > the impressio

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

2018-09-04 Thread Ethan Gardener
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Lucio De Re wrote: > On 9/3/18, Ethan Gardener wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2018, at 1:40 PM, Chris McGee wrote: > >> While the idea that many eyes makes bugs shallower seems to have failed > >> in the world of complex behemoth software it may work here. > > > > I th

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

2018-09-04 Thread Lucio De Re
On 9/3/18, Ethan Gardener wrote: > On Mon, Sep 3, 2018, at 1:40 PM, Chris McGee wrote: >> While the idea that many eyes makes bugs shallower seems to have failed >> in the world of complex behemoth software it may work here. > > I think it worked for a while, but eventually complexity grew beyond