Re: [9fans] SCMs

2018-02-13 Thread Rui Carmo
> On 14 Feb 2018, at 01:47, Bakul Shah wrote: > > Dave MacFarlane's git client (dgit) does a decent job on plan9. This interests me greatly. Last time I checked there wasn’t a good enough got client, so I used Mercurial. Where is dgit exactly? R.

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Rui Carmo
> On 14 Feb 2018, at 00:31, s...@9front.org wrote: > > 1.) is the wrong approach. Just build inside Plan 9. You missed the rest of the thread. R.

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Lucio De Re
On 2/13/18, Mart Zirnask wrote: > On 13/02/2018, Lucio De Re wrote: >> Stenography (short-hand)? >> > Yes -- "everything is a line"! > https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/yeah-i-still-use-shorthand-and-a-smartpen/373281/ > Thank you for that bit of present-day archaeology. Any

Re: [9fans] SCMs

2018-02-13 Thread Bakul Shah
On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:13:36 -0800 Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > +100 on DVCS and needless complexity. cvs or sccs provides all the > functionality I've ever needed in an SCM system. Although I confess I > have been seduced by git's ability to instantly create and switch between > branches. I

Re: [9fans] SCMs

2018-02-13 Thread Erik Quanstrom
well of course a worm is only equivalent if a user can snap and name any part of the tree at any time, and creat a new tree from any historical point.- erik

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread sl
>> Rui, please present any issues you had with the step-by-step >> introductions in the fqa to us on the 9front mailinglist in a >> designated thread. > > The main issue for me is putting together a build environment on top > of KVM or Linux, which isn’t covered in the FQA. > > I can’t build 9fro

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Rui Carmo
> On 13 Feb 2018, at 19:10, Kurt H Maier > wrote: > >> For using QEMU’s virtualization features inside Hyper-V. > > If Hyper-V is still capable of running Xen guests, you may want to look > at the code on sources for a start in that direction. That way you > could skip

[9fans] SCMs

2018-02-13 Thread Lyndon Nerenberg
I struggle to understand how version control is not more actively used. It's not particularly necessary when you have global state with snapshots provided by a shared WORM fs. I always thought that argument was a bit suspect. And with the loss of sources.bell-labs.com, it's apparent why. T

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Mart Zirnask
On 13/02/2018, Lucio De Re wrote: > On 2/13/18, Daniel Camolês wrote: >> [ ... ] >> >> Maybe it's not impossible that someone would come up with a way to input >> text using a pen over a screen that's even more efficient and convenient >> than a keyboard. So far, such technology just doesn't exis

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread hiro
> It’s just that the world has moved on this has no relevance, our kvm based setups still work, regardless of microsoft's virtualized revolutions.

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 06:21:42PM +, Rui Carmo wrote: > > Yes. And to deliver an image for the Pi, built on Intel systems. Always good to specify the deliverables. > I struggle to understand how version control is not more actively used. It's not particularly necessary when you have global

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Bakul Shah
On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:16:02 + Steve Simon wrote: Steve Simon writes: > > > > I can't build 9front on a Pi (well, not in productive amounts of time) > > depends what you mean by productive. my pi3 will build a kernel in about 30 > secs (i am not by it so this is from memory). > > my dual 1

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Rui Carmo
> On 13 Feb 2018, at 18:12, Kurt H Maier wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 05:01:35PM +, Rui Carmo wrote: >> >> A full build environment (the way I’m used to having it) comprises the >> end-to-end automation for creating a full build, > > A full build of what? It's one command to rebui

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Steve Simon
> I can’t build 9front on a Pi (well, not in productive amounts of time) depends what you mean by productive. my pi3 will build a kernel in about 30 secs (i am not by it so this is from memory). my dual 1.6 atom at home takes about 14 secs for comparison. userspace would take much longer but i

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 05:01:35PM +, Rui Carmo wrote: > > A full build environment (the way I’m used to having it) comprises the > end-to-end automation for creating a full build, A full build of what? It's one command to rebuild the whole OS. Is that the goal? > triggered by an external

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Rui Carmo
> On 13 Feb 2018, at 16:25, Kurt H Maier wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 03:10:34PM +, Rui Carmo wrote: >> >> The main issue for me is putting together a build environment on top of KVM >> or Linux, which isn’t covered in the FQA. >> > > What is a "build environment"? The FQA contai

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Lyndon Nerenberg
Maybe it's not impossible that someone would come up with a way to input text using a pen over a screen that's even more efficient and convenient than a keyboard. So far, such technology just doesn't exist. Dust off the handwriting code that was done for the bitsy.

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Kurt H Maier
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 03:10:34PM +, Rui Carmo wrote: > > The main issue for me is putting together a build environment on top of KVM > or Linux, which isn’t covered in the FQA. > What is a "build environment"? The FQA contains an entire chapter (3.3.1) on installing to qemu on linux. I

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Lucio De Re
On 2/13/18, Daniel Camolês wrote: > [ ... ] > > Maybe it's not impossible that someone would come up with a way to input > text using a pen over a screen that's even more efficient and convenient > than a keyboard. So far, such technology just doesn't exist. > Stenography (short-hand)? Fashion is

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Lucio De Re
I have a lot of admiration for cinap, he's "deep". But he is also the best qualified person to estimate whether improvements in 9front are portable back to legacy and I'm sure that is, sadly, not high on his agenda. Conservatively, I'd like legacy to be the entry system to Plan 9 and categorise m

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Lucio De Re
9front is not something I'm familiar with, but Plan 9 legacy is trivial to install (I still use VMware ESXi as the host) and you can rebuild the entire system with a handful of commands once you've got that far. Naturally, you may prefer a different approach, but do you need that to be your first

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Rui Carmo
> On 13 Feb 2018, at 11:05, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Rui, please present any issues you had with the step-by-step > introductions in the fqa to us on the 9front mailinglist in a > designated thread. The main issue for me is putting together a build environment on top of KVM or Linux,

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Daniel Camolês
Well because... A keyboard is very cheap and if you could pay for your tablet, you can probably afford it? And it's an efficient way to input text, way more efficient than any handwriting on a screen. I understand the sunken cost fallacy, but seriously, there's a reason handwriting on tablets is n

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread hiro
Does our fshalt -r work for rebooting without pressing reset? SSH has been completely rewritten by cinap, it's working much better than any former port, aiju also integrated sftp support. After this cinap fixed vt. Together these changes allow certain linux management tasks to be more comfortable t

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Ethan Grammatikidis
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018, at 12:52 PM, Daniel Camolês wrote: > You could use, you know, a keyboard with my ordinary tablet? sure! with a $600 tablet whose main trick is the handwriting input? why would i buy the tablet? -- The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. -- Chaucer

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread sl
> On 2/13/18, Rui Carmo wrote: > > I get the current website and some of the in-jokes, but a step-by-step guide > > for installing, building and contributing would be great ... > > It's so easy to fall into the trap of elitism, while bemoaning the > shortage of development hands needed to bring P

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Ethan Grammatikidis
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Lucio De Re wrote: > On 2/12/18, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > > [ a neat rant I agree almost to the pixel with... ] Thanks! > The message, of course, is that one should not need hundreds of > thousands of files deployed on a workstation and that there should be

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Lucio De Re
On 2/13/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > Lucio, what commit are you missing in 9front that you would like to see > merged? > Wrong person, Hiro :-) I am a strict 9legacy user, down to only a few patches past a very old Plan 9 release, just enough modernity to run Go plus a few of my own tiny

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Daniel Camolês
You could use, you know, a keyboard Em 13 de fev de 2018 10:49, "Ethan Grammatikidis" escreveu: > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018, at 2:51 PM, hiro wrote: > > your features sound neat, but they don't solve the problem of inputing > > longer text. > > > > i imagine many would find handwriting more comfortab

Re: [9fans] ReMarkable!

2018-02-13 Thread Ethan Grammatikidis
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018, at 2:51 PM, hiro wrote: > your features sound neat, but they don't solve the problem of inputing > longer text. > i imagine many would find handwriting more comfortable than tapping a lot. possibly more accurate too, although an osk on a screen that big isn't too bad for a

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread hiro
We found a great little niche for plan9 hidden between other web browsers^W^Woperating systems. Nowadays it's too easy to run multiple OS, virtually and natively. Cpu virtualization features helped, and there's so much cheap but totally capable hardware on ebay, and it fits in your backpack. There

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread hiro
Lucio, what commit are you missing in 9front that you would like to see merged?

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread hiro
Rui, please present any issues you had with the step-by-step introductions in the fqa to us on the 9front mailinglist in a designated thread.

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Lucio De Re
On 2/13/18, Rui Carmo wrote: > I get the current website and some of the in-jokes, but a step-by-step guide > for installing, building and contributing would be great ... It's so easy to fall into the trap of elitism, while bemoaning the shortage of development hands needed to bring Plan 9 (or an

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-13 Thread Rui Carmo
> On 13 Feb 2018, at 03:06, Lucio De Re wrote: > Touche'. I'd certainly like to contribute, but herding the Plan 9 cats > is beyond any managerial skills I may have. I think management wouldn’t be the issue. From the outside looking in, what transpires the most is that there is very little inf