Re: [zfs-discuss] snapdir visable recursively throughout a dataset

2007-02-06 Thread Darren J Moffat

Ben Rockwood wrote:

Robert Milkowski wrote:

I haven't tried it but what if you mounted ro via loopback into a zone


/zones/myzone01/root/.zfs is loop mounted in RO to /zones/myzone01/.zfs
  


That is so wrong. ;)

Besides just being evil, I doubt it'd work.  And if it does, it probly 
shouldn't.   I think I'm the only one that gets a rash when using LOFI.


lofi or lofs ?

lofi - Loopback file driver
Makes a block device from a file
lofs - loopback virtual file system
Makes a file system from a file system


--
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Re: [zfs-discuss] snapdir visable recursively throughout a dataset

2007-02-06 Thread Ben Rockwood

Darren J Moffat wrote:

Ben Rockwood wrote:

Robert Milkowski wrote:

I haven't tried it but what if you mounted ro via loopback into a zone


/zones/myzone01/root/.zfs is loop mounted in RO to /zones/myzone01/.zfs
  


That is so wrong. ;)

Besides just being evil, I doubt it'd work.  And if it does, it 
probly shouldn't.   I think I'm the only one that gets a rash when 
using LOFI.


lofi or lofs ?

lofi - Loopback file driver
Makes a block device from a file
lofs - loopback virtual file system
Makes a file system from a file system


Yes, I know.  I was referring more so to loopback happy people in 
general. :)


benr.
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Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] snapdir visable recursively throughout a dataset

2007-02-06 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Ben,

Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 10:19:54 AM, you wrote:

BR> Darren J Moffat wrote:
>> Ben Rockwood wrote:
>>> Robert Milkowski wrote:
 I haven't tried it but what if you mounted ro via loopback into a zone


 /zones/myzone01/root/.zfs is loop mounted in RO to /zones/myzone01/.zfs
   
>>>
>>> That is so wrong. ;)
>>>
>>> Besides just being evil, I doubt it'd work.  And if it does, it 
>>> probly shouldn't.   I think I'm the only one that gets a rash when 
>>> using LOFI.
>>
>> lofi or lofs ?
>>
>> lofi - Loopback file driver
>> Makes a block device from a file
>> lofs - loopback virtual file system
>> Makes a file system from a file system

BR> Yes, I know.  I was referring more so to loopback happy people in 
BR> general. :)

What's wrong with it?
Every sparse zone you've got in a system is using lofs anyway.


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 Robertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello zfs-discuss,

  It looks like when zfs issues write cache flush commands se3510
  actually honors it. I do not have right now spare se3510 to be 100%
  sure but comparing nfs/zfs server with se3510 to another nfs/ufs
  server with se3510 with "Periodic Cache Flush Time" set to disable
  or so longer time I can see that cache utilization on nfs/ufs stays
  about 48% while on nfs/zfs it's hardly reaches 20% and every few
  seconds goes down to 0 (I guess every txg_time).

  nfs/zfs also has worse performance than nfs/ufs.

  Does anybody know how to tell se3510 not to honor write cache flush
  commands?

-- 
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 Robert  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Robert,

Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 12:55:19 PM, you wrote:

RM> Hello zfs-discuss,

RM>   It looks like when zfs issues write cache flush commands se3510
RM>   actually honors it. I do not have right now spare se3510 to be 100%
RM>   sure but comparing nfs/zfs server with se3510 to another nfs/ufs
RM>   server with se3510 with "Periodic Cache Flush Time" set to disable
RM>   or so longer time I can see that cache utilization on nfs/ufs stays
RM>   about 48% while on nfs/zfs it's hardly reaches 20% and every few
RM>   seconds goes down to 0 (I guess every txg_time).

RM>   nfs/zfs also has worse performance than nfs/ufs.

RM>   Does anybody know how to tell se3510 not to honor write cache flush
RM>   commands?


Is there mdb hack to disable issuing write cache flushes by zfs?

It could be better than disabling it on the array itself as less scsi
commands would be send.


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 Robertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread Jonathan Edwards


On Feb 6, 2007, at 06:55, Robert Milkowski wrote:


Hello zfs-discuss,

  It looks like when zfs issues write cache flush commands se3510
  actually honors it. I do not have right now spare se3510 to be 100%
  sure but comparing nfs/zfs server with se3510 to another nfs/ufs
  server with se3510 with "Periodic Cache Flush Time" set to disable
  or so longer time I can see that cache utilization on nfs/ufs stays
  about 48% while on nfs/zfs it's hardly reaches 20% and every few
  seconds goes down to 0 (I guess every txg_time).

  nfs/zfs also has worse performance than nfs/ufs.

  Does anybody know how to tell se3510 not to honor write cache flush
  commands?


I don't think you can .. DKIOCFLUSHWRITECACHE *should* tell the array
to flush the cache.  Gauging from the amount of calls that zfs makes to
this vs ufs (fsck, lockfs, mount?) - i think you'll see the  
performance diff,

particularly when you hit an NFS COMMIT.  (If you don't use vdevs you
may see another difference in zfs as the only place you'll hit is on  
the zil)


btw - you may already know, but you'll also fall to write-through on  
the cache
if your battery charge drops and we also recommend setting to write- 
through
when you only have a single controller since a power event could  
result in

data loss.  Of course there's a big performance difference between
write-back and write-through cache

---
.je
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Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Jonathan,

Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 5:00:07 PM, you wrote:

JE> On Feb 6, 2007, at 06:55, Robert Milkowski wrote:

>> Hello zfs-discuss,
>>
>>   It looks like when zfs issues write cache flush commands se3510
>>   actually honors it. I do not have right now spare se3510 to be 100%
>>   sure but comparing nfs/zfs server with se3510 to another nfs/ufs
>>   server with se3510 with "Periodic Cache Flush Time" set to disable
>>   or so longer time I can see that cache utilization on nfs/ufs stays
>>   about 48% while on nfs/zfs it's hardly reaches 20% and every few
>>   seconds goes down to 0 (I guess every txg_time).
>>
>>   nfs/zfs also has worse performance than nfs/ufs.
>>
>>   Does anybody know how to tell se3510 not to honor write cache flush
>>   commands?

JE> I don't think you can .. DKIOCFLUSHWRITECACHE *should* tell the array
JE> to flush the cache.  Gauging from the amount of calls that zfs makes to
JE> this vs ufs (fsck, lockfs, mount?) - i think you'll see the  
JE> performance diff,
JE> particularly when you hit an NFS COMMIT.  (If you don't use vdevs you
JE> may see another difference in zfs as the only place you'll hit is on  
JE> the zil)

IMHO it definitely shouldn't actually. The array has two controllers
and write cache is mirrored. Also this is not the only host using that
array. You can actually win much of a performance, especially with
nfs/zfs setup (lot of synchronous ops) I guess.

IIRC Bill posted here some tie ago saying the problem with write cache
on the arrays is being worked on.



JE> btw - you may already know, but you'll also fall to write-through on  
JE> the cache
JE> if your battery charge drops and we also recommend setting to write- 
JE> through
JE> when you only have a single controller since a power event could  
JE> result in
JE> data loss.  Of course there's a big performance difference between
JE> write-back and write-through cache


I can understand reduced performance with one controller (however I
can force write-back on se3510 even with one controller - depending on
situation we can argue if it would be wise or not) however until write
cache is protected I definitely do not want ZFS to issue
DKIOCFLUSHWRITECACHE.


Ideally ZFS could figure out itself with recognized arrays.
But I would like to be able to set it my self on pool basis anyway
(there're always specific situations).

-- 
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 Robertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://milek.blogspot.com

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Re: [storage-discuss] Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread eric kustarz


IIRC Bill posted here some tie ago saying the problem with write cache
on the arrays is being worked on.


Yep, the bug is:
6462690 sd driver should set SYNC_NV bit when issuing SYNCHRONIZE  
CACHE to

SBC-2 devices

We have a case going through PSARC that will make things works  
correctly with regards to flushing the write cache and non-volatile  
caches.


The tricky part is getting vendors to actually support SYNC_NV bit.   
If you your favorite vendor/array doesn't support it, feel free to  
give them a call...


eric

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Re: Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread Jonathan Edwards


On Feb 6, 2007, at 11:46, Robert Milkowski wrote:

  Does anybody know how to tell se3510 not to honor write cache  
flush

  commands?


JE> I don't think you can .. DKIOCFLUSHWRITECACHE *should* tell the  
array
JE> to flush the cache.  Gauging from the amount of calls that zfs  
makes to

JE> this vs ufs (fsck, lockfs, mount?)


correction .. UFS uses _FIOFFS which is a file ioctl not a device  
ioctl which makes
sense given the difference in models .. hence UFS doesn't care if the  
device write
cache is turned on or off as it only makes dkio calls for geometry,  
info and such.


you can poke through the code to see what other dkio ioctls are being  
made by z ..
i believe it's due to the design of a closer tie between the  
underlying devices and
the file system that there's a big difference.  The DKIOCFLUSH PSARC  
is here:

http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2004/652/spec/

however I'm not sure if the 3510 maintains a difference between the  
entire array cache
and the cache for a single LUN/device .. we'd have to dig up one of  
the firmware
engineers for a more definitive answer.  Point well taken on shared  
storage if we're

flushing an array cache here :)

---
.je
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Re: [zfs-discuss] boot disks & controller layout...

2007-02-06 Thread Richard Elling

ozan s. yigit wrote:

not strictly a zfs question but related: after giving a lot of thought
to the appropriate zpool layout in an x4500, we decided to use raidz2
5x(7+2)+1 layout, paying attention to having no more than two disks per
set in each controller. in the process, i want to move my root mirror
to another controller, say C6T0. is there any reason why factory install
comes with C5T0 and C5T4? a limitation of the bios or some other reason
i am missing? (i may need to RTFM harder... :)


BIOS limitation.

For a discussion on why you don't need to worry:
http://blogs.sun.com/relling/entry/zfs_raid_recommendations_space_vs

 -- richard
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Re: [zfs-discuss] boot disks & controller layout...

2007-02-06 Thread ozan s. yigit

ah, good stuff.
thanks.

oz

Richard Elling [in response to my question] wrote:

ozan s. yigit wrote:

... is there any reason why factory install
comes with C5T0 and C5T4? a limitation of the bios or some other reason
i am missing? (i may need to RTFM harder... :)


BIOS limitation.

For a discussion on why you don't need to worry:
http://blogs.sun.com/relling/entry/zfs_raid_recommendations_space_vs

 -- richard


--
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if you want to have your head in the clouds
you need to keep your feet on the ground. -- terry pratchett
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Re[2]: [storage-discuss] Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello eric,

Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 5:55:23 PM, you wrote:

>>
>> IIRC Bill posted here some tie ago saying the problem with write cache
>> on the arrays is being worked on.

ek> Yep, the bug is:
ek> 6462690 sd driver should set SYNC_NV bit when issuing SYNCHRONIZE  
ek> CACHE to
ek> SBC-2 devices

Thanks. I see a workaround there (I saw it earlier but it doesn't
apply to 3510) and I have a question - setting zil_disable to 1
won't actually completely disable cache flushing, right? (still every
txg group completes cache would be flushed)??


ek> We have a case going through PSARC that will make things works  
ek> correctly with regards to flushing the write cache and non-volatile  
ek> caches.

There's actually a tunable to disable cache flushes:
zfs_nocacheflush and in older code (like S10U3) it's zil_noflush.

H...


ek> The tricky part is getting vendors to actually support SYNC_NV bit.   
ek> If you your favorite vendor/array doesn't support it, feel free to  
ek> give them a call...

Is there any work being done to ensure/check that all arrays Sun sells
do support it?


-- 
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 Robertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://milek.blogspot.com

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Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] Re: ZFS volume is hosing BIOS POST on Ultra20 (BIOS 2.1.7)

2007-02-06 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Casper,

Monday, January 22, 2007, 2:56:16 PM, you wrote:

>>Is there an BIOS uptade for Ultra20 to make it understand EFI?


CDSC> Understanding EFI is perhaps asking too much; but I believe the
CDSC> latest BIOS no longer hangs/crashes when it encountered EFI labels
CDSC> on disks it examines.  (All disks it probes)

That's what we looked for. Somehow my friend missed that.
Thank you.

-- 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Meta data corruptions on ZFS.

2007-02-06 Thread dudekula mastan
Hi All,
   
  No one has any idea on this ?
   
  -Masthan

dudekula mastan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  Hi All,
   
  In my test set up, I have one zpool of size 1000M bytes.
   
  On this zpool, my application writes 100 files each of size 10 MB.
   
  First 96 files were written successfully with out any problem.
   
  But the 97 file is not written successfully , it written only 5 MB (the 
return value of write() call ). 
   
  Since it is short write my application tried to truncate it to 5MB. But 
ftruncate is failing with an erroe message saying that No space on the devices.
   
  Have you people ever seen these kind of error message ?
   
  After ftruncate failure I checked the size of 97 th file, it is strange. The 
size is 7 MB but the expected size is only 5 MB.
   
  You help is appreciated.
   
  Thanks & Regards
  Mastan
   

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Re: [storage-discuss] Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread Neil Perrin



Robert Milkowski wrote On 02/06/07 11:43,:

Hello eric,

Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 5:55:23 PM, you wrote:



IIRC Bill posted here some tie ago saying the problem with write cache
on the arrays is being worked on.



ek> Yep, the bug is:
ek> 6462690 sd driver should set SYNC_NV bit when issuing SYNCHRONIZE  
ek> CACHE to

ek> SBC-2 devices

Thanks. I see a workaround there (I saw it earlier but it doesn't
apply to 3510) and I have a question - setting zil_disable to 1
won't actually completely disable cache flushing, right? (still every
txg group completes cache would be flushed)??


ek> We have a case going through PSARC that will make things works  
ek> correctly with regards to flushing the write cache and non-volatile  
ek> caches.


There's actually a tunable to disable cache flushes:
zfs_nocacheflush and in older code (like S10U3) it's zil_noflush.


Yes, but we didn't want to publicise this internal switch. (I would
not call it a tunable). We (or at least I) are regretting publicising
zil_disable, but using zfs_nocacheflush is worse. If the device is
volatile then we can get pool corruption. An uberblock could get written
before all of its tree.

Note, zfs_nocacheflush and zil_noflush are not the same.
Setting zil_noflush stopped zil flushes of the write cache, whereas
zfs_nocacheflush will additionally stop flushing for txgs.




H...


ek> The tricky part is getting vendors to actually support SYNC_NV bit.   
ek> If you your favorite vendor/array doesn't support it, feel free to  
ek> give them a call...


Is there any work being done to ensure/check that all arrays Sun sells
do support it?



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[zfs-discuss] The ZFS MOS and how DNODES are stored

2007-02-06 Thread Bill Moloney
ZFS documentation lists snapshot limits on any single file system in a pool at 
2**48 snaps, and that seems to logically imply that a snap on a file system 
does not require an update to the pool’s currently active uberblock.  That is 
to say, that if we take a snapshot of a file system in a pool, and then make 
any changes to that file system, the copy on write behavior induced by the 
changes will stop at some synchronization point below the uberblock (presumably 
at or below the DNODE that is the DSL directory for that file system).  
In-place updates to a DNODE that has been allocated in a single sector sized 
ZFS block can be considered atomic, since the sector write will either succeed 
or fail totally, leaving either the old version or the new version, but not a 
combination of the two.  This seems sensible to me, but the description of 
object sets beginning on page 26 of the ZFS On-Disk Specification, states that 
the DNODE type DMU_OT_DNODE (the type of the DNODE that’s included in the 1KB 
objset_phys_t structure) will have a data load of an array of DNODES allocated 
in 128KB blocks, and the picture (Illustration 12 in the spec) shows these 
blocks as containing 1024 DNODES.  Since DNODES are 512 bytes, it would not be 
possible to fit the 1024 DNODES depicted in the illustration and if DNODES did 
live in such an array then they could not be atomically updated in-place.  If 
the blocks in question were actually filled with an array of block pointers 
pointing to single sector sized blocks that each held a DNODE then this would 
account for the 1024 entries per 128KB block shown, since block pointers are 
128 bytes (not the 512 bytes of a DNODE), but in this case wouldn’t such 128KB 
blocks be considered to be indirect block pointers, forcing the dn_nlevels 
field shown in the object set DNODE at the top left of Illustration 12 to be 2, 
instead of the 1 that’s there ?  I’m further confused by the  illustration’s 
use of dotted lines to project the contents of a structure field (as seen in 
the projection of the metadnode field of the objset_phys_t structure found at 
the top of the picture) and arrows to represent pointers (as seen in the 
projection of the block pointer array of the DMU-OT-DNODE type dnode, also at 
the top of the picture), but the blocks pointed to by these block pointers seem 
to actually contain instances of DNODES (as seen from the projection of one of 
these instances in the lower part of the picture).  Should this projection be 
replaced by a pointer to the lower DNODE ?
 
 
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Re: Re[2]: [storage-discuss] Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] se3510 and ZFS

2007-02-06 Thread eric kustarz


On Feb 6, 2007, at 10:43 AM, Robert Milkowski wrote:


Hello eric,

Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 5:55:23 PM, you wrote:



IIRC Bill posted here some tie ago saying the problem with write  
cache

on the arrays is being worked on.


ek> Yep, the bug is:
ek> 6462690 sd driver should set SYNC_NV bit when issuing SYNCHRONIZE
ek> CACHE to
ek> SBC-2 devices

Thanks. I see a workaround there (I saw it earlier but it doesn't
apply to 3510) and I have a question - setting zil_disable to 1
won't actually completely disable cache flushing, right? (still every
txg group completes cache would be flushed)??


Right, zil_disable is orthogonal to flushing the write cache.  With  
or without the ZIL, ZFS is consistent on disk.  Disabling the  
flushing of the write cache (as Neil just mentioned) *can cause  
corruption*.




ek> The tricky part is getting vendors to actually support SYNC_NV  
bit.

ek> If you your favorite vendor/array doesn't support it, feel free to
ek> give them a call...

Is there any work being done to ensure/check that all arrays Sun sells
do support it?




We're working it from our end, but i'm sure we won't cover all 3rd  
party vendors...


eric


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[zfs-discuss] Re: solaris - ata over ethernet - zfs - HPC

2007-02-06 Thread roland
>We've considered looking at porting the AOE _server_ module to Solaris,
>especially since the Solaris loopback driver (/dev/lofi) is _much_ more
>stable than the loopback module in Linux (the Linux loopback module is a
>stellar piece of crap). 

ok, it`s quite old and probably not the most elegant solution - but unstable?
could you underline that somehow?
i use the loopback module for years and never had a problem.
anyway - it`s getting a competitor: bugfixed version of dm-loop device-mapper 
target has just been posted on dm-devel today.

roland
 
 
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[zfs-discuss] Re: solaris - ata over ethernet - zfs - HPC

2007-02-06 Thread Wes Felter

Kevin Abbey wrote:

Does this seem like a good idea?  I am not a storage expert and am 
attempting to create a scalable distributed storage cluster for an HPC 
cluster. 


An AOE/ZFS/NFS setup doesn't sound scalable or distributed; your ZFS/NFS 
server may turn out to be a bottleneck.


Wes Felter - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[zfs-discuss] Re: Limit ZFS Memory Utilization

2007-02-06 Thread Richard L. Hamilton
If I understand correctly, at least some systems claim not to guarantee
consistency between changes to a file via write(2) and changes via mmap(2).
But historically, at least in the case of regular files on local UFS, since 
Solaris
used the page cache for both cases, the results should have been consistent.

Since zfs uses somewhat different mechanisms, does it still have the same
consistency between write(2) and mmap(2) that was historically present
(whether or not "guaranteed") when using UFS on Solaris?
 
 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] VxVM volumes in a zpool.

2007-02-06 Thread Mike Gerdts

On 1/18/07, Tan Shao Yi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

Was wondering if anyone had experience working with VxVM volumes in a
zpool. We are using VxVM 5.0 on a Solaris 10 11/06 box. The volume is on a
SAN, with two FC HBAs connected to a fabric.

The setup works, but we observe a very strange message on bootup. The
bootup screen is attached at the bottom of this e-mail.


I suspect that the problem is that
svc:/system/vxvm/vxvm-sysboot:default needs to be online before
svc:/system/filesystem/local:default.  I bet that adding something
like the following to /var/svc/manifest/system/vxvm/vxvm-sysboot.xml:

   
   
   

You can then run:

 svccfg import /var/svc/manifest/system/vxvm/vxvm-sysboot.xml

On your next boot it should bring up (or try to...) vxconfigd (which
should make volumes available) before the first zfs commands are run.
I suspect that if /usr or /opt is a separate file system, you may have
issues with this dependency.

This is based upon 5 minutes of looking, not a careful read of all the
parts involved.

Mike

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Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Limit ZFS Memory Utilization

2007-02-06 Thread Sanjeev Bagewadi

Richard,

Richard L. Hamilton wrote:


If I understand correctly, at least some systems claim not to guarantee
consistency between changes to a file via write(2) and changes via mmap(2).
But historically, at least in the case of regular files on local UFS, since 
Solaris
used the page cache for both cases, the results should have been consistent.

Since zfs uses somewhat different mechanisms, does it still have the same
consistency between write(2) and mmap(2) that was historically present
(whether or not "guaranteed") when using UFS on Solaris?
 


Yes, it does have the consistency. There is specific code to keep
the page cache (needed in case of mmaped files) and the ARC caches 
consistent.


Thanks and regards,
Sanjeev.

--
Solaris Revenue Products Engineering,
India Engineering Center,
Sun Microsystems India Pvt Ltd.
Tel:x27521 +91 80 669 27521 


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Re: [zfs-discuss] Meta data corruptions on ZFS.

2007-02-06 Thread Sanjeev Bagewadi

Masthan,



*/dudekula mastan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:


Hi All,
 
In my test set up, I have one zpool of size 1000M bytes.
 

Is this the size given by zfs list ? Or is the amount of disk space that 
you had ?
The reason I ask this is because ZFS/Zpool takes up some amount of space 
for its house keeping.
So, if you add 1G worth of disk space to the pool the effective space 
available is a little less (few MBs)

than 1G.


On this zpool, my application writes 100 files each of size 10 MB.
 
First 96 files were written successfully with out any problem.


Here you are filling the FS to the brim. This is a border case and the 
copy-on-write nature of ZFS

could lead to the behaviour that you are seeing.

 
But the 97 file is not written successfully , it written only 5 MB

(the return value of write() call ).
 
Since it is short write my application tried to truncate it to

5MB. But ftruncate is failing with an erroe message saying that No
space on the devices.

This is expected because of the copy-onwrite nature of ZFS. During 
truncate it is trying to allocate

new disk blocks probably to write the new metadata and fails to find them.

 
Have you people ever seen these kind of error message ?



Yes, there are others who have seen these errors.

 
After ftruncate failure I checked the size of 97 th file, it is

strange. The size is 7 MB but the expected size is only 5 MB.



Is there any particular reason that you are pushing the filesystem to 
the brim ?
Is this part of some test ? Please, help us understand what you are 
trying to test.


Thanks and regards,
Sanjeev.

--
Solaris Revenue Products Engineering,
India Engineering Center,
Sun Microsystems India Pvt Ltd.
Tel:x27521 +91 80 669 27521 


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