Re: [XeTeX] centering using geometry package

[Axel E. Retif]

On 11/20/2011 01:48 AM, Kevin Godby wrote:



The vertical line on the far right is showing where the marginpar area
starts.  That vertical line is the left margin of the \marginpars.
The distance between the right edge of your box and that vertical line
is \marginparsep.  The width of the marginpar area (i.e., the width of
the margin notes) is \marginparwidth.


Very good!

Daniel,

Your document has another problem ---if you use A2 instead of A3 as 
paper size, you'll see your document has a page number. You need to put


\thispagestyle{empty}

right after \begin{document}. If you want to be sure your text area is 
centered (it is), use the crop package with an extra 2cm per side; then, 
when your done, you can comment out the crop line before sending your 
work to the printing shop. What I would do, then, is this:


\documentclass{book}
\setlength{\parskip}{0mm}%
\setlength{\parindent}{0mm}%
\usepackage{geometry}
\usepackage{pstricks}
\usepackage{pstricks-add}
\geometry{
  xetex,
  paperwidth=297mm,paperheight=420mm,landscape,
  centering,twoside=false,
  ignoreall,
  textheight=284mm,textwidth=400mm,
  truedimen,
%  showframe
  }
\usepackage[cam,width=440mm,height=324mm,center]{crop}
\begin{document}%
\thispagestyle{empty}
\psset{unit=1mm}%
\begin{pspicture}(-200,-142)(200,142)%

\psframe[fillstyle=none,linestyle=dotted,linecolor=blue](-200,-142)(200,142)%
\end{pspicture}%
\end{document}%

Best

Axel


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Re: [XeTeX] centering using geometry package

[Daniel Greenhoe]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Kevin Godby  wrote:
> The vertical line on the far right is showing where the marginpar area starts.

Thank for your excellent explanation. I invoked the options
  nomarginpar and noheadfoot
and everything seems to work great. Nary an extraneous line anywhere.
Thanks so much!!

Dan

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Kevin Godby  wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Daniel Greenhoe  wrote:
>> But one thing that concerns me is that there
>> is an extra vertical line that appears about 2.5mm to the right of the
>> text body frame box. Can somebody tell me, what is that line? Can I
>> eliminate it somehow? Here is a somewhat minimal example:
>
> The vertical line on the far right is showing where the marginpar area
> starts.  That vertical line is the left margin of the \marginpars.
> The distance between the right edge of your box and that vertical line
> is \marginparsep.  The width of the marginpar area (i.e., the width of
> the margin notes) is \marginparwidth.
>
> You won't need to worry about either of those values as long as you're
> not using \marginpars on that page.
>
> --Kevin Godby
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] centering using geometry package

[Daniel Greenhoe]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Axel E. Retif  wrote:

> ... your document has a page number. You need to put
> \thispagestyle{empty}

That is a good idea. I did put it in. Thanks!

> ...use the crop package ...

I like this idea and did try it on the real cover design. However, I
seem to be having some problems. With time, I'm sure they could be
solved. But for right now, I am just out of time. I may visit this
again sometime in the future however. It would be nice to have "cam"
crop marks on there even when sending it to a print shop (even though
they probably wouldn't use them).

Thank you for your help!

Dan

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Axel E. Retif  wrote:
> On 11/20/2011 01:48 AM, Kevin Godby wrote:
>
>
>> The vertical line on the far right is showing where the marginpar area
>> starts.  That vertical line is the left margin of the \marginpars.
>> The distance between the right edge of your box and that vertical line
>> is \marginparsep.  The width of the marginpar area (i.e., the width of
>> the margin notes) is \marginparwidth.
>
> Very good!
>
> Daniel,
>
> Your document has another problem ---if you use A2 instead of A3 as paper
> size, you'll see your document has a page number. You need to put
>
> \thispagestyle{empty}
>
> right after \begin{document}. If you want to be sure your text area is
> centered (it is), use the crop package with an extra 2cm per side; then,
> when your done, you can comment out the crop line before sending your work
> to the printing shop. What I would do, then, is this:
>
> \documentclass{book}
> \setlength{\parskip}{0mm}%
> \setlength{\parindent}{0mm}%
> \usepackage{geometry}
> \usepackage{pstricks}
> \usepackage{pstricks-add}
> \geometry{
>  xetex,
>  paperwidth=297mm,paperheight=420mm,landscape,
>  centering,twoside=false,
>  ignoreall,
>  textheight=284mm,textwidth=400mm,
>  truedimen,
> %  showframe
>  }
> \usepackage[cam,width=440mm,height=324mm,center]{crop}
> \begin{document}%
> \thispagestyle{empty}
> \psset{unit=1mm}%
> \begin{pspicture}(-200,-142)(200,142)%
>
> \psframe[fillstyle=none,linestyle=dotted,linecolor=blue](-200,-142)(200,142)%
> \end{pspicture}%
> \end{document}%
>
> Best
>
> Axel
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] centering using geometry package

[Axel E. Retif]

On 11/20/2011 03:50 AM, Daniel Greenhoe wrote:


On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Axel E. Retif  wrote:


[...]


...use the crop package ...


I like this idea and did try it on the real cover design. However, I
seem to be having some problems. With time, I'm sure they could be
solved. But for right now, I am just out of time. I may visit this
again sometime in the future however. It would be nice to have "cam"
crop marks on there even when sending it to a print shop (even though
they probably wouldn't use them).


My guess is they *would* use them. It's always a good idea to bleed 
about a pica per side your cover image, in order to avoid a random nasty 
thin white line in some final works after trimming.


That's where crop marks come handy ---they indicate the intended trimmed 
size; the rest of the image in, then, the bleed.



Best

Axel


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Re: [XeTeX] centering using geometry package

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/20 Axel E. Retif :
> On 11/20/2011 03:50 AM, Daniel Greenhoe wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Axel E. Retif  wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> ...use the crop package ...
>>
>> I like this idea and did try it on the real cover design. However, I
>> seem to be having some problems. With time, I'm sure they could be
>> solved. But for right now, I am just out of time. I may visit this
>> again sometime in the future however. It would be nice to have "cam"
>> crop marks on there even when sending it to a print shop (even though
>> they probably wouldn't use them).
>
> My guess is they *would* use them. It's always a good idea to bleed about a
> pica per side your cover image, in order to avoid a random nasty thin white
> line in some final works after trimming.
>
> That's where crop marks come handy ---they indicate the intended trimmed
> size; the rest of the image in, then, the bleed.
>
My zwpagelayout can do both crop marks as well as set page layout,
show frames, se MediaBox, BleedBox and TrimBox in PDF. Unfortunately I
cannot make black overprint work with xdvipdfmx but I will try. A new
version is going to be released very soon (conflicts with ifxetex
[used eg by fontspec] and fancyhdr were fixed).
>
> Best
>
> Axel
>
>
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-- 
Zdeněk Wagner
http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz



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Re: [XeTeX] centering using geometry package

[Axel E. Retif]

On 11/20/2011 06:51 AM, Zdenek Wagner wrote:


2011/11/20 Axel E. Retif:


[...]


That's where crop marks come handy ---they indicate the intended trimmed
size; the rest of the image in, then, the bleed.


...the rest of the image *is*, then, the bleed.


My zwpagelayout can do both crop marks as well as set page layout,
show frames, se MediaBox, BleedBox and TrimBox in PDF.


Ah! It's good to know. I'll take a look at it. Thank you.



[...] I cannot make black overprint work with xdvipdfmx but I will try.


I use pdfTeX, so right now that's not a problem for me.


Best

Axel



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Re: [XeTeX] cmyk encoded files

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/20 Daniel Greenhoe :
> 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
>> Printed colour samples are commercially available.
>> They are printed on different types of papers and CMYK values are given.
>
> Is there any such thing available in book form? That is, could you
> make a recommendation? Here in Taiwan, there is something commonly
> sold called Pantone彩色聖經 (Pantone Cai3Se4 Sheng4Jing1 = Pantone Color
> Bible). I did finally locate one in a bookstore yesterday, but it was
> sealed up and I wasn't allowed to open it without buying it.
>
Hard to say but Pantone is not exactly what you need. I bouhgt some
small samples here in the Czech Republic, this is a link:
http://www.dtpstudio.cz/vzorniky/cmyk/basic
Using CMYK just limited colours can be printed. The colours are
obtained by subtractive mixing, therefore saturated colours cannot be
printed. You can only print colours that fall into the CMYK gamut. If
you do not print in full colour but need only one, two or three
colours, custom colours can be used. This is the time when you can use
Pantone. Often company logos are designed using custom colours. You
can also find CMYK approximations of custom colours, it may be in the
Pantone Bible. When using a custom colour, it need not be necessarily
100%, for instance the cover if this book was printed with the
following three colours: Blue GS 4C12, Red GS 3C41, Black. This is the
link to the book:
http://www.canopus.cz/dilo_ps/ps.html

Hope it helps

> Dan
>
>
>
> 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
>> 2011/11/20 Daniel Greenhoe :
>>> 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
 No.
>>>
 LCMS is a good choice.
>>> LCMS is "Little Color Management System"?
>>> (http://www.color.org/opensource.xalter)?
>>>
>> Yes.
>>
 1. It ensures that the colours you specify in the document will be 
 converted to cmyk.
 However, the corrections are wrong.
 2. xcolor does not look into inserted graphics,...
>>>
>>> But what if I hand define all my colors using cmyk syntax like this for 
>>> example
>>>     \definecolor{magenta}{cmyk}{0,1,0,0}
>>> and create all my graphics using pstricks and related packages (with
>>> no inserted graphics)?
>>> Then won't the resulting pdf be cmyk compliant and contain exactly the
>>> colors I defined?
>>>
>> That's what I do. Printed colour samples are commercially available.
>> They are printed on different types of papers and CMYK values are
>> given. Thus you select the required colour on a proper paper and use
>> it. Sometimes I select the colour in gimp and then using LCMS convert
>> the values from RGB to CMYK. Scanned images are also easy. I keep them
>> as TIF, using LCMS convert them to CMYK and then by tiff2pdf to PDF
>> that can be included by \includegraphics.
>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
 2011/11/19 Daniel Greenhoe :
> Print shops often require pdf files containing color to be encoded
> using CMYK colorspace values.
>
> Version 2.11 of the xcolor package says that cmyk is "supported by
> Postscripts directly" (page 8). So if I simply specify
>  \usepackage[cmyk]{xcolor}
> in the preamble and compile with XeTeX/XeLaTeX, is that sufficient to
> ensure the resulting pdf is cmyk encoded?
>
 No.

 1. It ensures that the colours you specify in the document will be
 converted to cmyk. However, the corrections are wrong. If you wish to
 convert the colours properly, you have to use colour profiles. LCMS is
 a good choice. Useful ICC profiles come with different products as
 Adobe Reader, colour printers, scanners etc. They can also be
 downloaded from the web. Calculations in the xcolor package can only
 be used if you are satisfied with approximate colours. It is written
 in the documentation that conversions are device dependent.

 2. xcolor does not look into inserted graphics, you have to convert
 your images to cmyk separately. Again LCMS is a good tool for this
 purpose.

> Secondly, is there any free utility available for checking the
> colorspace encoding of pdf files (maybe similar to foolab's pdffonts
> for checking embedded fonts).
>
 I have not found any. Since I produce PDF files for printing very
 often, I calculated that commercial Adobe Acrobat is cheaper than the
 risk of paying unusable books, thus I have bought it.

> Many thanks in advance,
> Dan
>
>
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 --
 Zdeněk Wagner
 http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/
 http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz



 --
 Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Subscriptions, Archive, and List inform

Re: [XeTeX] cmyk encoded files

[Daniel Greenhoe]

Thank you for the color information. It just seems that there should
be a color printing standard that print houses strive to follow and
that someone would produce a booklet based on that standard.

I saw this in a document from one print house:

"Consumer quality printers have a wide margin for variation. The best
way to verify the final color output, when submitting a file to a
printer, is to purchase a Pantone to Process Swatch booklet from a
local professional art supply shop. This book contains Pantone
calibrated color swatches that you can compare to the CMYK color
percentages of your digital file"

But if there is no "professional art supply shop" around, where does
one find such a booklet?


On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Zdenek Wagner  wrote:
> 2011/11/20 Daniel Greenhoe :
>> 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
>>> Printed colour samples are commercially available.
>>> They are printed on different types of papers and CMYK values are given.
>>
>> Is there any such thing available in book form? That is, could you
>> make a recommendation? Here in Taiwan, there is something commonly
>> sold called Pantone彩色聖經 (Pantone Cai3Se4 Sheng4Jing1 = Pantone Color
>> Bible). I did finally locate one in a bookstore yesterday, but it was
>> sealed up and I wasn't allowed to open it without buying it.
>>
> Hard to say but Pantone is not exactly what you need. I bouhgt some
> small samples here in the Czech Republic, this is a link:
> http://www.dtpstudio.cz/vzorniky/cmyk/basic
> Using CMYK just limited colours can be printed. The colours are
> obtained by subtractive mixing, therefore saturated colours cannot be
> printed. You can only print colours that fall into the CMYK gamut. If
> you do not print in full colour but need only one, two or three
> colours, custom colours can be used. This is the time when you can use
> Pantone. Often company logos are designed using custom colours. You
> can also find CMYK approximations of custom colours, it may be in the
> Pantone Bible. When using a custom colour, it need not be necessarily
> 100%, for instance the cover if this book was printed with the
> following three colours: Blue GS 4C12, Red GS 3C41, Black. This is the
> link to the book:
> http://www.canopus.cz/dilo_ps/ps.html
>
> Hope it helps
>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
>>> 2011/11/20 Daniel Greenhoe :
 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
> No.

> LCMS is a good choice.
 LCMS is "Little Color Management System"?
 (http://www.color.org/opensource.xalter)?

>>> Yes.
>>>
> 1. It ensures that the colours you specify in the document will be 
> converted to cmyk.
> However, the corrections are wrong.
> 2. xcolor does not look into inserted graphics,...

 But what if I hand define all my colors using cmyk syntax like this for 
 example
     \definecolor{magenta}{cmyk}{0,1,0,0}
 and create all my graphics using pstricks and related packages (with
 no inserted graphics)?
 Then won't the resulting pdf be cmyk compliant and contain exactly the
 colors I defined?

>>> That's what I do. Printed colour samples are commercially available.
>>> They are printed on different types of papers and CMYK values are
>>> given. Thus you select the required colour on a proper paper and use
>>> it. Sometimes I select the colour in gimp and then using LCMS convert
>>> the values from RGB to CMYK. Scanned images are also easy. I keep them
>>> as TIF, using LCMS convert them to CMYK and then by tiff2pdf to PDF
>>> that can be included by \includegraphics.
>>>
 Dan




 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
> 2011/11/19 Daniel Greenhoe :
>> Print shops often require pdf files containing color to be encoded
>> using CMYK colorspace values.
>>
>> Version 2.11 of the xcolor package says that cmyk is "supported by
>> Postscripts directly" (page 8). So if I simply specify
>>  \usepackage[cmyk]{xcolor}
>> in the preamble and compile with XeTeX/XeLaTeX, is that sufficient to
>> ensure the resulting pdf is cmyk encoded?
>>
> No.
>
> 1. It ensures that the colours you specify in the document will be
> converted to cmyk. However, the corrections are wrong. If you wish to
> convert the colours properly, you have to use colour profiles. LCMS is
> a good choice. Useful ICC profiles come with different products as
> Adobe Reader, colour printers, scanners etc. They can also be
> downloaded from the web. Calculations in the xcolor package can only
> be used if you are satisfied with approximate colours. It is written
> in the documentation that conversions are device dependent.
>
> 2. xcolor does not look into inserted graphics, you have to convert
> your images to cmyk separately. Again LCMS is a good tool for this
> purpose.
>
>> Secondly, is there any free utility available for checking the
>> colorspace encoding of pdf files (maybe similar to foolab's pd

Re: [XeTeX] (OT) Re: TeX in the modern World. (goes OT) Was: Re: Whitespace in input

[Dominik Wujastyk]

IBM golf ball "Selectric"?

Luxury!

My university used to beat me over the head with an abacus made of stone
for 25 hours a day, before sending me to do data entry with a chisel at the
back end of a cave lit only by burning data-cards, while solving Eulerarian
equations for fluid motion using machine-code programming on the ribs of a
dead antelope.  Try telling that to the kids today!  Will they believe you?



On 19 November 2011 09:27, Philip TAYLOR  wrote:

>
>
> Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>
> Me I am almost 50 and have been around computers since the 80s.
>>First was a Apple IIe, at the university we used a main frame.
>>
>
> My first computer was a Clary 404, with 8K of magnetic core memory,
> a magnetic card reader and/or teletype as input device, and an
> IBM golf ball "Selectric" typewriter for output.  A 3rd-year
> undergraduate, working under my supervision, wrote a chess end-game
> solver that would run on this machine and solve end-game problems
> in reasonable time.  I wonder how many programmers today could do
> the same with 125 000 times as much memory (1Gb) ?
>
> ** Phil.
>
>
>
> --**
> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>  
> http://tug.org/mailman/**listinfo/xetex
>


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Re: [XeTeX] cmyk encoded files

[Andy Lin]

If your local Eslite doesn't have such a booklet, and they can't order
one, you might want to try asking around at small print shops. They're
actually fairly substantial and are along the same lines as the
Pantone book that you found. However, if you're at a print shop
anyway, you can just ask to see their sample book, which should show
the stocks and inks and treatments that they have available.

Colour printing in Asia is significantly cheaper than elsewhere in the
world. You may find it easier to just request a proof before you
commit to a larger order. Or, failing that, compile a swatch card
composed of all the colours that are in your document and ask them to
print that. Between process (cmyk) or Pantone, just remember that
Pantone colours are much more expensive, but they do offer a wide
range of possible colours.

HTH,
Andy


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Re: [XeTeX] cmyk encoded files

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/20 Daniel Greenhoe :
> Thank you for the color information. It just seems that there should
> be a color printing standard that print houses strive to follow and
> that someone would produce a booklet based on that standard.
>
> I saw this in a document from one print house:
>
> "Consumer quality printers have a wide margin for variation. The best
> way to verify the final color output, when submitting a file to a
> printer, is to purchase a Pantone to Process Swatch booklet from a
> local professional art supply shop. This book contains Pantone
> calibrated color swatches that you can compare to the CMYK color
> percentages of your digital file"
>
> But if there is no "professional art supply shop" around, where does
> one find such a booklet?
>
This information is a bit misleading. As I wrote, Pantone are custom
colours that cannot be printed with CMYK, they can only be
approximated. Such swatches are useful if you have to approximate a
Pantone colour with CMYK. It sometimes happens.

However, colour printing is a bit science and a bit art. What you see
is light reflected by the printed page. The light is reflected by the
paper and some wavelengths are subtracted (absorbed) by the inks. What
remains is perceived by your eye and your brain perceives it as some
colour (colour is not a physical property, it exists only in our
brains). If I neglect subjective perception by our eyes and brains,
the colour is determined by the printed ink, by the paper and even by
the light. It makes little sense to search for CMYK percentages before
you select a paper. It happened to me just a few months ago. I had to
typeset a poetry book for children with a lot of colour pictures. The
publisher did not ask my advice and selected a paper with a beautiful
structure that would be very nice for a poetry book but absolutely
unsuitable for colour pictures. Fortunatelly they printed just one
sample book that had to be thrown to a trash. In offset printing the
inks are not applied all at the same time but sequentially. Thus the
printed page consists of layers. The order influences the resulting
colour. Thus if you buy swatches, you should know the paper used, the
order of colour printing, the ICC profile used (this corresponds to
the ink types). For instance, in European print houses different CMYK
inks are used in comparison to USA but even in Europe some printer
houses may use US inks. This is important to know before you convert
colours to CMYK. Some print houses offer ICC profiles for their
devices for free. And of course, when looking at the swatches, you
have to use a standard light. Standard bulbs can be bought in art
shops. Good print houses have them installed in customer rooms so that
a customer can see a printed sample properly.

Some print houses are reliable and you know that they will always
print the same document in the same way with the same colours, some
are unreliable. In good print houses you can always ask for printing a
sample, in the really good ones they even do it for free. There are
also companies that can produce a custom CMYK ICC profile. You have to
print a standard sample on the same device and the same paper and they
will measure it by a spectrometer and give you an ICC file. It may
cost some 50 $ but if you produce an expensive book, it is worth that
money.

I do not use custom CMYK profiles. First I calibrated my flatbed
scanner using an IT8 target supplied with the scanner. Then I
calibrated my inkjet by printing IT8 and measuring it by the
calibrated scanner. All this can be done by VueScan (www.hamrick.com).
My screen is not calibrated but I can compare a color table on screen
with the same table printed on my calibrated inkjet. Now when I take a
photo with my digital camera and have it printed in a photolab, I get
exactly the same colour as on my screen. I played a bit in order to
find an ICC profile that I could plug into LCMS for conversion to
CMYK. Now when I have a document prited by offest or by a digital
machine, I get the same colour as on my screen. Thus I have a standard
production chain: scanner - screen - inkjet - offset - digital
printer.

And where to buy all the things? I found an internet shop in our
country that sells swatches, standard bulbs, textbooks, software and a
lot of other useful things. You may find one in your country.
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Zdenek Wagner  
> wrote:
>> 2011/11/20 Daniel Greenhoe :
>>> 2011/11/20 Zdenek Wagner :
 Printed colour samples are commercially available.
 They are printed on different types of papers and CMYK values are given.
>>>
>>> Is there any such thing available in book form? That is, could you
>>> make a recommendation? Here in Taiwan, there is something commonly
>>> sold called Pantone彩色聖經 (Pantone Cai3Se4 Sheng4Jing1 = Pantone Color
>>> Bible). I did finally locate one in a bookstore yesterday, but it was
>>> sealed up and I wasn't allowed to open it without buying it.
>>>
>> Hard to say but Pantone is no