Re: [XeTeX] Combined sub- and superscript - solved
Am Sonntag 08 August 2010, 05:23:27 schrieb Michael Lynch:
> On 07/08/2010 23:32, Ross Moore wrote:
> > Hi Peter, Sebastien,
> >
> > On 08/08/2010, at 7:33 AM, Peter Dyballa
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Am 07.08.2010 um 22:44 schrieb Sebastian Gerecke:
> >>> BUT: This just has to be an utter hack and I can not believe it
> >>> is the way it is supposed to be done.
> >>
> >> This hack is necessary because mhchem is not aware of font
> >> features, it's a simple LaTeX package that maltreats simple TeX
> >> fonts in the usual ways.
> >>
> >>> I'm putting the scientific inferior numbers in the upper
> >>> position, and the scientific superiors in the lower position.
> >>> Does that make sense to anyone?
> >
> > The usual LaTeX way to do this would be to use the \sideset command
> > from AMSMath, that is with \usepackage{amsmath}.
> >
> > But this would be placing the usual ASCII numerals, and not using the
> > Unicode inferior and superior numerals. Those characters are very new
> > to the TeX world. A Google search brings up only a few mentions of
> > them on Microsoft pages. Thus you are not likely to find a good
> > solution having easy syntax, until someone writes a macro specially
> > for it, for use with XeTeX and other Unicode-aware TeX processing.
> >
> > If I've understood this correctly, you want the positioning of
> > \sideset with the characters being the Unicode superiors and
> > inferiors, which are full-sized glyphs. Furthermore, the input syntax
> > should be intuitive, allowing use of either ASCII numerals or the
> > Unicode points directly, for maximum flexibility.
> >
> > Should such support be in the unicode-math package? Probably not, as
> > super-/subscripts in math usually have the usual numerical meaning,
> > so it would be wrong to use separate characters, just for a purely
> > visual effect.
> >
> > Is a chemist going to learn about Unicode and XeTeX just to typeset
> > isotope names correctly? We could be so lucky!
> >
> > However maybe if someone on this list develops such a macro, it could
> > go into xltxtra.sty .
> >
> >> Well, otherwise it would look much worse...
> >
> > Indeed.
> >
> >> -- Mit friedvollen Grüßen
> >>
> >> Pete
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Ross
> >
> Hello all,
>
> I don't know anything about \sideset, but does this do what's needed?
>
> \newlength{\atomicwidth}
> \DeclareRobustCommand{\elem}[3]{%
> \settowidth{\atomicwidth}{\textsubscript{#2}}%
> \textsuperscript{#1}\hspace{-\atomicwidth}\textsubscript{#2}#3
> }
>
> \elem{14}{6}{C}
>
> (I've attached an example file demonstrating it.)
>
> This seems to produce the desired output, is easy to use, and has the
> advantage of playing equally nicely with fonts that don't have the
> required features.
>
> Mike
Hello Mike,
thanks for your code -- it works perfectly :-)
Much better actually than my own solution which is having a problem with
different font sizes.
This really solves my problem. Thanks to everyone your help and attention.
Cheers
Sebastian
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Re: [XeTeX] Combined sub- and superscript - solved
Am Sonntag 08 August 2010, 00:32:59 schrieb Ross Moore:
> Hi Peter, Sebastien,
>
> On 08/08/2010, at 7:33 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > Am 07.08.2010 um 22:44 schrieb Sebastian Gerecke:
> >> BUT: This just has to be an utter hack and I can not believe it is the
> >> way it is supposed to be done.
> >
> > This hack is necessary because mhchem is not aware of font features, it's
> > a simple LaTeX package that maltreats simple TeX fonts in the usual
> > ways.
> >
> >> I'm putting the scientific inferior numbers in the upper position, and
> >> the scientific superiors in the lower position. Does that make sense to
> >> anyone?
>
> The usual LaTeX way to do this would be to use the \sideset command from
> AMSMath, that is with \usepackage{amsmath}.
>
> But this would be placing the usual ASCII numerals, and not using the
> Unicode inferior and superior numerals. Those characters are very new to
> the TeX world. A Google search brings up only a few mentions of them on
> Microsoft pages. Thus you are not likely to find a good solution having
> easy syntax, until someone writes a macro specially for it, for use with
> XeTeX and other Unicode-aware TeX processing.
>
> If I've understood this correctly, you want the positioning of \sideset
> with the characters being the Unicode superiors and inferiors, which are
> full-sized glyphs. Furthermore, the input syntax should be intuitive,
> allowing use of either ASCII numerals or the Unicode points directly, for
> maximum flexibility.
That is exactly what I want, yes.
The Libertine webpage promotes the sub/superscipt feature and explicitly gives
the example of chemical formulars. That is why I thougt it would be easy to
use that feature.
>
> Should such support be in the unicode-math package?
> Probably not, as super-/subscripts in math usually have the usual numerical
> meaning, so it would be wrong to use separate characters, just for a
> purely visual effect.
>
> Is a chemist going to learn about Unicode and XeTeX just to typeset isotope
> names correctly? We could be so lucky!
>
> However maybe if someone on this list develops such a macro, it could go
> into xltxtra.sty .
The macro Mike has written works really well for me. Perhaps that could be
included somewhere?
>
> > Well, otherwise it would look much worse...
>
>Indeed.
>
> > --
> > Mit friedvollen Grüßen
> >
> > Pete
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ross
>
>
> --
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> http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
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Re: [XeTeX] Combined sub- and superscript - solved
On Sun, Aug 08, 2010 at 08:32:59AM +1000, Ross Moore wrote:
>
> Hi Peter, Sebastien,
>
> On 08/08/2010, at 7:33 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
> >
> > Am 07.08.2010 um 22:44 schrieb Sebastian Gerecke:
> >
> >> BUT: This just has to be an utter hack and I can not believe it is the way
> >> it
> >> is supposed to be done.
> >
> > This hack is necessary because mhchem is not aware of font features, it's a
> > simple LaTeX package that maltreats simple TeX fonts in the usual ways.
> >
> >> I'm putting the scientific inferior numbers in the upper position, and the
> >> scientific superiors in the lower position. Does that make sense to anyone?
>
>
> The usual LaTeX way to do this would be to use the \sideset command from
> AMSMath, that is with \usepackage{amsmath}.
>
> But this would be placing the usual ASCII numerals, and not using the Unicode
> inferior and superior numerals. Those characters are very new to the TeX
> world. A Google search brings up only a few mentions of them on Microsoft
> pages. Thus you are not likely to find a good solution having easy syntax,
> until someone writes a macro specially for it, for use with XeTeX and other
> Unicode-aware TeX processing.
>
Actually, the OpenType features he is using, map ASCII numbers to
special glyphs designed for subscript/superscript, but unlike TeX's
optical sizes, those glyphs are scaled and raised/lowered to give the
desired size and position, and thus can't be used with normal TeX
super/subscript mechanisms. May be Will Robertson can extend his new
realscripts package to handle such situations as well, if it does not
already since I didn't test it.
Regards,
Khaled
--
Khaled Hosny
Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
Free font developer
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