Re: vnc server closed connection

2001-08-19 Thread Barn Owl

I found a the anwser on this one. For some reason -broadcast fails but
-query localhost works. one more note for the FAQ :)
Barn Owl wrote:
> 
> I am gettgin vnc server closed connection error when using vnc  -inetd
> option. Every thing works normal when starting vnc formteh command line.
> Any ideas where to look for the error?
> 
> EVan
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atom bomb in WINVNC

2001-08-19 Thread H. Th. van der Meer

I am tracking down a problem I have had with using VNC. Some times my
applications would crash without any traceable cause.
As far as I can see it now, WINVNC does something it shouldn't. It stores
the latest x,y coordinates in a windows property and addresses this property
with an windows ATOM GetProp(window,ATOM).

This looks like a very nice algorithm but the problem is that the Windows
ATOM table is linked to the desktop and is cleared when the user logs in (or
out?). The ATOM that WINVNC uses looses its validity when users log in (or
out?).

For some more information see article Q238721 in the Microsoft knowledge
base. They have a similar problem for common controls and MFC.

This is more than I can fix on a Friday afternoon, any suggestions?
Is my observation correct?

Henk van der Meer
Target Team Timing

PS
This problem started in this list as a Delphi problem see:
 VNC krasches Delphi apps on server
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VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread Dan Reisman

I installed VNC because I thought it was the only free program out there to
remotely control my server.  I have the server on a Windows NT4 Server, and
the viewers on 2 PCs running Win98SE.  Then, I found Microsoft NetMeeting's
Shared Desktop.  I have compared the performance of VNC with Microsoft
NetMeeting's Shared Desktop, and I have found the latter to be superior.  I
get a better picture, a lower latency, generally the same features of VNC,
plus you can issue a CTRL+ALT+DEL command to the server.  Before I do
something I would regret, what reasons are there for me not to stay with
NetMeeting, and uninstall VNC?

I appreciate your professional candidness on this issue.

Sincerely Yours,
Dan
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RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread timmy

yes, but does netmeeting work on unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc?

plus netmeeting uses 5 or more tcp ports to communicate, and a random amount
of udp ports from 5000-8000 (i beleive).

compare apples to apples, then you will find vnc is superior.

-tim

p.s. if you had actually read and/or realyl evaluated vnc, you can send a
ctrl-alt-del to host as well. you might want to research this type of post
first. the documentation is very good with vnc.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 10:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


I installed VNC because I thought it was the only free program out there to
remotely control my server.  I have the server on a Windows NT4 Server, and
the viewers on 2 PCs running Win98SE.  Then, I found Microsoft NetMeeting's
Shared Desktop.  I have compared the performance of VNC with Microsoft
NetMeeting's Shared Desktop, and I have found the latter to be superior.  I
get a better picture, a lower latency, generally the same features of VNC,
plus you can issue a CTRL+ALT+DEL command to the server.  Before I do
something I would regret, what reasons are there for me not to stay with
NetMeeting, and uninstall VNC?

I appreciate your professional candidness on this issue.

Sincerely Yours,
Dan
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to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread Yan Seiner

I've never run MS Net Meeting.  I try to stay away from MN apps for a
lot of reasons.

VNC is better because it runs on the platforms I need.  I run Win98SE in
a windows emulator on a linux workstation.  I manage a number of linux
servers remotely.  I travel all over the world and I need access to my
computer and my server.  I never know if I will be limited to bandwith,
ports, etc. where I am.

VNC will run, with tightVNC it needs little bandwith to be practical, it
can easily be run down a VPN connection, and it's as reliable as a rock.

Frankly, this really sounds like more MS FUD or troll-bait.

--Yan

Dan Reisman wrote:
> 
> I installed VNC because I thought it was the only free program out there to
> remotely control my server.  I have the server on a Windows NT4 Server, and
> the viewers on 2 PCs running Win98SE.  Then, I found Microsoft NetMeeting's
> Shared Desktop.  I have compared the performance of VNC with Microsoft
> NetMeeting's Shared Desktop, and I have found the latter to be superior.  I
> get a better picture, a lower latency, generally the same features of VNC,
> plus you can issue a CTRL+ALT+DEL command to the server.  Before I do
> something I would regret, what reasons are there for me not to stay with
> NetMeeting, and uninstall VNC?
> 
> I appreciate your professional candidness on this issue.
> 
> Sincerely Yours,
> Dan
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RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread Dan Reisman

Tim,
Thank you for your reply.  I am considering how VNC applies in my situation.
I don't use "unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc".

My main concern is how to lower the latency.

I tried ctrl-alt-del, and it did not work.  What documentation are you
talking about?

Also, please do me a favor.  I am new to open source apps, and I would
appreciate your patience.

Thanks,
Dan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of timmy
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


yes, but does netmeeting work on unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc?

plus netmeeting uses 5 or more tcp ports to communicate, and a random amount
of udp ports from 5000-8000 (i beleive).

compare apples to apples, then you will find vnc is superior.

-tim

p.s. if you had actually read and/or realyl evaluated vnc, you can send a
ctrl-alt-del to host as well. you might want to research this type of post
first. the documentation is very good with vnc.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 10:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


I installed VNC because I thought it was the only free program out there to
remotely control my server.  I have the server on a Windows NT4 Server, and
the viewers on 2 PCs running Win98SE.  Then, I found Microsoft NetMeeting's
Shared Desktop.  I have compared the performance of VNC with Microsoft
NetMeeting's Shared Desktop, and I have found the latter to be superior.  I
get a better picture, a lower latency, generally the same features of VNC,
plus you can issue a CTRL+ALT+DEL command to the server.  Before I do
something I would regret, what reasons are there for me not to stay with
NetMeeting, and uninstall VNC?

I appreciate your professional candidness on this issue.

Sincerely Yours,
Dan
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RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread Joshua J. Kugler

The documentation can be found on the VNC web site.  As to the 
ctrl-alt-delete, right click on the task bar button for VNC, and select 
"Send Ctrl-Alt-Delete"

j- k-

At 17:02 Sunday 2001-08-19 -0700, you allegedly said:
>Tim,
>Thank you for your reply.  I am considering how VNC applies in my situation.
>I don't use "unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc".
>
>My main concern is how to lower the latency.
>
>I tried ctrl-alt-del, and it did not work.  What documentation are you
>talking about?
>
>Also, please do me a favor.  I am new to open source apps, and I would
>appreciate your patience.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan


Joshua J. Kugler
Fairbanks, Alaska
Computer Consultant--Web Developer
.--- --- ...  ..- .--.- ..- --. .-.. . .-.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ#:13706295
Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, in heaven, on earth, and 
under the earth, that Jesus Christ is LORD -- Count on it!
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Re: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread Andrew van der Stock

Yan, that wasn't what the dude asked for. It's not MS FUD or a troll. The
question is simple and the answers are as varied as everyone on this list.
Being rude or disdainful of a person's platform is extremely
counterproductive and causes a ghetto gap between platforms, and will
further marginalise your choice of platform as a viable option once it is
equal to the incumbent in functionality and productiveness.

Why would Microsoft platform people be interested in adopting open source
products if the only experience they ever get is to have their head bitten
off for daring to politely ask about the features of the product you'd like
them to use? Please, as a open source person, I politely ask you to think
before you post. There is no cost in being polite, and much cost to
everyone's efforts here by being rude.

To better answer the orignal question:

VNC can issue a Control-Alt-Delete (Secure Alert Sequence on NT) - right
click the title bar and choose "Send Control-Alt-Delete".
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/faq.html#q28

Documentation for WinVNC can be found here:
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/winvnc.html
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/winvncviewer.html

Is NetMeeting / Terminal Services more efficient than VNC?

Depends, but yes, usually. Read on for more information.

Normal VNC is slower than the sorta T.120 protocol mishmash that Netmeeting
uses for desktop sharing. Terminal Services uses a very similar protocol
called RDP which is also more efficient than standard VNC. As Microsoft has
better insights into how GDI works and optimize for that case at both ends,
both Netmeeting and TermSrv clients are more accurate, have fewer display
artifacts (read bugs - try using smooth scrolling in IE 5.5 or 6.0 without
the occasional full refresh in VNC and you know what I mean), can work
around user craziness (like the suppressing the backdrop), and can make
greater assumptions about the remote end of the connection; for example RDP
can encode a displayed string as a string and expect the remote end to have
the same truetype font and display it in exactly the same way. Sending the
string via RDP may save 50-60 kb in encoded tiles if VNC was in use.

RDP is also multi-streamed, allowing for multiple direction paths (ie disks,
serial ports, and so on are individual channels) and supports audio.

VNC is a simple protocol, and is very portable because its core design
values require so little on the client end. Therefore if portability and
heterogenous interoperability are key for you, then VNC is the right answer.
If you're using Microsoft Windows at both ends, I'm afraid the right answer
is likely to be NetMeeting or Terminal Services as they are clearly superior
at this time.

The strength of open source is that eventually, open source will add these
features and hopefully be on a par with TermSrv over time.

For more technical details on Terminal Services:
http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=54&ArticleID=3594

To configure Netmeeting to use a firewall (it is as bad as a previous posted
said):
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q158/6/23.asp

Terminal Services uses a single TCP/IP port (tcp/3389).

hope this helps,
Andrew

- Original Message -
From: "Yan Seiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


> I've never run MS Net Meeting.  I try to stay away from MN apps for a
> lot of reasons.
>
> VNC is better because it runs on the platforms I need.  I run Win98SE in
[snip]
> VNC will run, with tightVNC it needs little bandwith to be practical, it
> can easily be run down a VPN connection, and it's as reliable as a rock.
>
> Frankly, this really sounds like more MS FUD or troll-bait.
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RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread timmy

http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/faq.html#q31 for ctrl-alt-del

http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/faq.html#q50 for speed issues

http://www.tightvnc.com/ for really fast vnc


Good luck.

-tim



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 5:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


Tim,
Thank you for your reply.  I am considering how VNC applies in my situation.
I don't use "unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc".

My main concern is how to lower the latency.

I tried ctrl-alt-del, and it did not work.  What documentation are you
talking about?

Also, please do me a favor.  I am new to open source apps, and I would
appreciate your patience.

Thanks,
Dan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of timmy
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


yes, but does netmeeting work on unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc?

plus netmeeting uses 5 or more tcp ports to communicate, and a random amount
of udp ports from 5000-8000 (i beleive).

compare apples to apples, then you will find vnc is superior.

-tim

p.s. if you had actually read and/or realyl evaluated vnc, you can send a
ctrl-alt-del to host as well. you might want to research this type of post
first. the documentation is very good with vnc.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 10:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


I installed VNC because I thought it was the only free program out there to
remotely control my server.  I have the server on a Windows NT4 Server, and
the viewers on 2 PCs running Win98SE.  Then, I found Microsoft NetMeeting's
Shared Desktop.  I have compared the performance of VNC with Microsoft
NetMeeting's Shared Desktop, and I have found the latter to be superior.  I
get a better picture, a lower latency, generally the same features of VNC,
plus you can issue a CTRL+ALT+DEL command to the server.  Before I do
something I would regret, what reasons are there for me not to stay with
NetMeeting, and uninstall VNC?

I appreciate your professional candidness on this issue.

Sincerely Yours,
Dan
-
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RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread timmy

The Documentation for the Win32 version is located at:

http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/winvncviewer.html

The fourth paragraph details send a ctrl-alt-del to host.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 5:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


Tim,
Thank you for your reply.  I am considering how VNC applies in my situation.
I don't use "unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc".

My main concern is how to lower the latency.

I tried ctrl-alt-del, and it did not work.  What documentation are you
talking about?

Also, please do me a favor.  I am new to open source apps, and I would
appreciate your patience.

Thanks,
Dan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of timmy
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


yes, but does netmeeting work on unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc?

plus netmeeting uses 5 or more tcp ports to communicate, and a random amount
of udp ports from 5000-8000 (i beleive).

compare apples to apples, then you will find vnc is superior.

-tim

p.s. if you had actually read and/or realyl evaluated vnc, you can send a
ctrl-alt-del to host as well. you might want to research this type of post
first. the documentation is very good with vnc.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 10:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


I installed VNC because I thought it was the only free program out there to
remotely control my server.  I have the server on a Windows NT4 Server, and
the viewers on 2 PCs running Win98SE.  Then, I found Microsoft NetMeeting's
Shared Desktop.  I have compared the performance of VNC with Microsoft
NetMeeting's Shared Desktop, and I have found the latter to be superior.  I
get a better picture, a lower latency, generally the same features of VNC,
plus you can issue a CTRL+ALT+DEL command to the server.  Before I do
something I would regret, what reasons are there for me not to stay with
NetMeeting, and uninstall VNC?

I appreciate your professional candidness on this issue.

Sincerely Yours,
Dan
-
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to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread Dan Reisman

Andrew, thanks.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andrew van der
Stock
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


Yan, that wasn't what the dude asked for. It's not MS FUD or a troll. The
question is simple and the answers are as varied as everyone on this list.
Being rude or disdainful of a person's platform is extremely
counterproductive and causes a ghetto gap between platforms, and will
further marginalise your choice of platform as a viable option once it is
equal to the incumbent in functionality and productiveness.

Why would Microsoft platform people be interested in adopting open source
products if the only experience they ever get is to have their head bitten
off for daring to politely ask about the features of the product you'd like
them to use? Please, as a open source person, I politely ask you to think
before you post. There is no cost in being polite, and much cost to
everyone's efforts here by being rude.

To better answer the orignal question:

VNC can issue a Control-Alt-Delete (Secure Alert Sequence on NT) - right
click the title bar and choose "Send Control-Alt-Delete".
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/faq.html#q28

Documentation for WinVNC can be found here:
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/winvnc.html
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/winvncviewer.html

Is NetMeeting / Terminal Services more efficient than VNC?

Depends, but yes, usually. Read on for more information.

Normal VNC is slower than the sorta T.120 protocol mishmash that Netmeeting
uses for desktop sharing. Terminal Services uses a very similar protocol
called RDP which is also more efficient than standard VNC. As Microsoft has
better insights into how GDI works and optimize for that case at both ends,
both Netmeeting and TermSrv clients are more accurate, have fewer display
artifacts (read bugs - try using smooth scrolling in IE 5.5 or 6.0 without
the occasional full refresh in VNC and you know what I mean), can work
around user craziness (like the suppressing the backdrop), and can make
greater assumptions about the remote end of the connection; for example RDP
can encode a displayed string as a string and expect the remote end to have
the same truetype font and display it in exactly the same way. Sending the
string via RDP may save 50-60 kb in encoded tiles if VNC was in use.

RDP is also multi-streamed, allowing for multiple direction paths (ie disks,
serial ports, and so on are individual channels) and supports audio.

VNC is a simple protocol, and is very portable because its core design
values require so little on the client end. Therefore if portability and
heterogenous interoperability are key for you, then VNC is the right answer.
If you're using Microsoft Windows at both ends, I'm afraid the right answer
is likely to be NetMeeting or Terminal Services as they are clearly superior
at this time.

The strength of open source is that eventually, open source will add these
features and hopefully be on a par with TermSrv over time.

For more technical details on Terminal Services:
http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=54&ArticleID=3594

To configure Netmeeting to use a firewall (it is as bad as a previous posted
said):
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q158/6/23.asp

Terminal Services uses a single TCP/IP port (tcp/3389).

hope this helps,
Andrew

- Original Message -
From: "Yan Seiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


> I've never run MS Net Meeting.  I try to stay away from MN apps for a
> lot of reasons.
>
> VNC is better because it runs on the platforms I need.  I run Win98SE in
[snip]
> VNC will run, with tightVNC it needs little bandwith to be practical, it
> can easily be run down a VPN connection, and it's as reliable as a rock.
>
> Frankly, this really sounds like more MS FUD or troll-bait.
-
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to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop

2001-08-19 Thread Dan Reisman

Thanks, Tim.  With your help, I figured it out.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of timmy
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


The Documentation for the Win32 version is located at:

http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/winvncviewer.html

The fourth paragraph details send a ctrl-alt-del to host.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 5:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


Tim,
Thank you for your reply.  I am considering how VNC applies in my situation.
I don't use "unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc".

My main concern is how to lower the latency.

I tried ctrl-alt-del, and it did not work.  What documentation are you
talking about?

Also, please do me a favor.  I am new to open source apps, and I would
appreciate your patience.

Thanks,
Dan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of timmy
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


yes, but does netmeeting work on unix/linux/solaris/max etc etc?

plus netmeeting uses 5 or more tcp ports to communicate, and a random amount
of udp ports from 5000-8000 (i beleive).

compare apples to apples, then you will find vnc is superior.

-tim

p.s. if you had actually read and/or realyl evaluated vnc, you can send a
ctrl-alt-del to host as well. you might want to research this type of post
first. the documentation is very good with vnc.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Reisman
Sent: August 19, 2001 10:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VNC vs. Microsoft NetMeeting's Shared Desktop


I installed VNC because I thought it was the only free program out there to
remotely control my server.  I have the server on a Windows NT4 Server, and
the viewers on 2 PCs running Win98SE.  Then, I found Microsoft NetMeeting's
Shared Desktop.  I have compared the performance of VNC with Microsoft
NetMeeting's Shared Desktop, and I have found the latter to be superior.  I
get a better picture, a lower latency, generally the same features of VNC,
plus you can issue a CTRL+ALT+DEL command to the server.  Before I do
something I would regret, what reasons are there for me not to stay with
NetMeeting, and uninstall VNC?

I appreciate your professional candidness on this issue.

Sincerely Yours,
Dan
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Re: VNC for Nokia 9210 ???

2001-08-19 Thread Dean Shaw

Mark if you do find anything for the 9210 let me know.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dean

- Original Message -
From: Marc Weigert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:50 AM
Subject: VNC for Nokia 9210 ???


> Hello,
>
> can anyone tell me, if there is a version of VNC for Nokia 9210 in the
> pipeline? We bought these devices to administer our Win2k boxes whilst
being
> out of the office, but unfortunaltey we have had to realize that Nokia
> switched their OS from Geos to Symbian EPOC6. Well... we thought we can
use
> the Java applet via the 9210 webbrowser, but this browser does not support
> Java :(
>
> Is there someone on the list that already runs VNC in any form from a
Nokia
> 9210 - or does anyone know if there is a development for an appropriate
> version on the way? Some usenet post did say, you need to recompile EPOC5
> applications (therefore exists a VNC version) to run under EPOC6, as it
> makes use of another code (Unicode?).
>
> Sorry if I didn't describe my problem clear enough - English is not my
> mother language ;)
>
> Thank you all in advance!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
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