Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had thought was fixed. But... The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release fixing known and critical bugs could be made. Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. Virgil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: > On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: > >> We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, >> and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press >> release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some >> other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major >> announcements. > > >> I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. >> I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to >> compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement >> here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. > > > I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new > versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the > latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can > be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had > thought was fixed. > > But... > > The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is > a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to > properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for > years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation > is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in > Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new > version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release > fixing known and critical bugs could be made. > > Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and > AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. > I think the compromise then is with quality. Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs, of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and fixing old bugs. Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing. That, I think, would be very inefficient. We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would allow us to release more frequently as well. I don't think either kind of "compromise" is what our users really want. IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2 months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done, hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers. Also, a public beta or "bug finding contests" is not a substitute for formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback. Regards, -Rob > Virgil > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Hyphenation Problems (was RE: AOO-Members dont forget voting)
In some cases, it comes down to having someone around who knows how to fix the problem and has undertaken to do so. The writing tools require an entirely different expertise than working on the source code. Some of them are, by virtue of their licenses, not maintainable directly by the Apache Project. Many of us can identify defects while lacking the means or circumstances where a repair can be offered and confirmed. - Dennis PS: If you know of a non-proprietary source of a correct en-US hyphenator, that might be something that could be looked into. PPS: The hyphenation dictionary distributed with Apache OpenOffice 4.0 is dated 2010-03-06. Sorry. (The one in LibreOffice was last updated in 2011-10-07, but that also involved an updated to use Hyphen 2.8.2). -Original Message- From: Virgil Arrington [mailto:cuyfa...@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 04:50 AM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting [ ... ] The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release fixing known and critical bugs could be made. Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. Virgil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Good Afternoon Rob & Group, I whole heartily agree with your summation. I would much prefer the slower paced actual fixing and additions that worked, then the fastpace "maybe it will work" and see if the users find the problems the developers missed. I don't stay abreast of LO, since I'm not using LO. My opinion is that there seems to be less to writer then there used to be. the dictionary is now working. Hopefully, a better update can be established so the user doesn't have to figure out whether they have the latest or not. Possibly some way to notify of upcoming updates? I WAS happy with v3.3, but I'm not not a heavy user of AOO, because it isn't 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, especially in the spread sheet department. I need converted "xls" to work with my AutoCad software, which currently it will not. That's mostly the fault of AutoDesk, who doesn't keep up with new world of office software. I am not one to hang on to expensive Office software because of one program that requires its usage. I am happy that Open Office is alive and progressing at a solid pace of excellence. I'm also ecstatic that its mainline rather then in "Incubation", that word gave me the shivers. Take Care. Scooter College Park, MD USA Rob Weir wrote on 7/20/2013 11:33 AM: On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had thought was fixed. But... The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release fixing known and critical bugs could be made. Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. I think the compromise then is with quality. Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs, of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and fixing old bugs. Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing. That, I think, would be very inefficient. We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would allow us to release more frequently as well. I don't think either kind of "compromise" is what our users really want. IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2 months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done, hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers. Also, a public beta or "bug finding contests" is not a substitute for formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback. Regards, -Rob Virgil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Scooter wrote: > Good Afternoon Rob & Group, > > I whole heartily agree with your summation. > I would much prefer the slower paced actual fixing and additions that > worked, then the fastpace "maybe it will work" and see if the users find the > problems the developers missed. > I don't stay abreast of LO, since I'm not using LO. My opinion is that there > seems to be less to writer then there used to be. the dictionary is now > working. Hopefully, a better update can be established so the user doesn't > have to figure out whether they have the latest or not. Possibly some way to > notify of upcoming updates? In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by default) and notifies the user if there is an update available. -Rob > I WAS happy with v3.3, but I'm not not a heavy user of AOO, because it isn't > 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, especially in the spread sheet > department. I need converted "xls" to work with my AutoCad software, which > currently it will not. That's mostly the fault of AutoDesk, who doesn't keep > up with new world of office software. I am not one to hang on to expensive > Office software because of one program that requires its usage. > I am happy that Open Office is alive and progressing at a solid pace of > excellence. I'm also ecstatic that its mainline rather then in "Incubation", > that word gave me the shivers. > > Take Care. > Scooter > College Park, MD USA > > Rob Weir wrote on 7/20/2013 11:33 AM: > >> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington >> wrote: >>> >>> On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: >>> We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. >>> >>> I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. >>> >>> >>> I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new >>> versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the >>> latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It >>> can >>> be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you >>> had >>> thought was fixed. >>> >>> But... >>> >>> The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 >>> is >>> a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version >>> to >>> properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for >>> years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when >>> hyphenation >>> is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in >>> Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new >>> version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim >>> release >>> fixing known and critical bugs could be made. >>> >>> Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and >>> AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. >>> >> I think the compromise then is with quality. >> >> Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The >> main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs >> to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and >> architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the >> product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we >> try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed >> chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs, >> of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and >> fixing old bugs. >> >> Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would >> mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing. >> That, I think, would be very inefficient. >> >> We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship >> based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would >> allow us to release more frequently as well. >> >> I don't think either kind of "compromise" is what our users really want. >> >> IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way >> to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2 >> months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done, >> hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers. >> >> Also, a public beta or "bug finding contests" is not a substitute for >> formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature >> testing. But they can be a good way to ge
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
I am using 3.4.1 and have never seen a notice that there was an update available. The only time I've heard of 4.0 is seeing someone on this list ask questions about it. I thought they were mistaken about the version. Dale Erwin Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03 Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org On 7/20/2013 5:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote: In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by default) and notifies the user if there is an update available. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Me too! I checked it manually (3.4.1) and result was "Open Office up to date". On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Dale Erwin wrote: > I am using 3.4.1 and have never seen a notice that there was an update > available. The only time I've heard of 4.0 is seeing someone on this list > ask questions about it. I thought they were mistaken about the version. > > Dale Erwin > Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03 > Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU > http://leather.casaerwin.org > > On 7/20/2013 5:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote: > >> In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via >> the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by >> default) and notifies the user if there is an update available. >> > > > --**--**- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > users-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > users-help@openoffice.apache.**org > > -- Mike Hancock :<)
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Dale Erwin wrote: > I am using 3.4.1 and have never seen a notice that there was an update > available. The only time I've heard of 4.0 is seeing someone on this list > ask questions about it. I thought they were mistaken about the version. > Yes, but that is because OpenOffice 4.0 as not been released yet. That will happen next week. After that you should get a notification of an update when you open AOO 3.4.1. It could take up to one week for that notification to occur, since it only checks once per week by default. -Rob > Dale Erwin > Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03 > Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU > http://leather.casaerwin.org > > > On 7/20/2013 5:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via >> the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by >> default) and notifies the user if there is an update available. > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
