Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread Gilles Gouaillardet 

Saliya,

OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and automatically 
selects the best one per pair.
Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node communication, 
and the sm or vader btl for

intra node.
note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available for even 
more optimized configurations.


Cheers,

Gilles

On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:

Hi,

Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or options) in 
OpenMPI to improve communication between intra node processes. For 
example do they use something like shared memory?


Thank you,
Saliya

--
Saliya Ekanayake
Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914
http://saliya.org


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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread Saliya Ekanayake 
Thank you Gilles. Is there some documentation on vader btl and how I can
check which (sm or vader) is being used?

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
wrote:

> Saliya,
>
> OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and automatically
> selects the best one per pair.
> Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node communication, and
> the sm or vader btl for
> intra node.
> note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available for even
> more optimized configurations.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gilles
>
>
> On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or options) in OpenMPI
> to improve communication between intra node processes. For example do they
> use something like shared memory?
>
> Thank you,
> Saliya
>
> --
> Saliya Ekanayake
> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
> Indiana University, Bloomington
> Cell 812-391-4914
> http://saliya.org
>
>
> ___
> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> Link to this post: 
> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/08/27513.php
>
>
>
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> Searchable archives:
> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27514.php
>



-- 
Saliya Ekanayake
Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914
http://saliya.org

Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread Gilles Gouaillardet 

you can try
mpirun --mca btl_base_verbose 100 ...

or you can simply blacklist the btl you do *not* want to use, for example
mpirun --mca btl ^sm
if you want to use vader

you can run
ompi_info --all | grep vader
to check the btl parameters,
of course, reading the source code is the best way to understand what 
the vader btl can do and how


Cheers,

Gilles


On 9/1/2015 1:28 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
Thank you Gilles. Is there some documentation on vader btl and how I 
can check which (sm or vader) is being used?


On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
mailto:gil...@rist.or.jp>> wrote:


Saliya,

OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and
automatically selects the best one per pair.
Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node
communication, and the sm or vader btl for
intra node.
note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available for
even more optimized configurations.

Cheers,

Gilles


On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:

Hi,

Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or options) in
OpenMPI to improve communication between intra node processes.
For example do they use something like shared memory?

Thank you,
Saliya

-- 
Saliya Ekanayake

Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914 
http://saliya.org


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--
Saliya Ekanayake
Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914
http://saliya.org


___
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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread Saliya Ekanayake 
One more question. I found this blog from Jeff [1] on vader and I got the
impression that it's used only for peer-to-peer communications and not for
collectives. Is this true or did I misunderstand?


[1]
http://blogs.cisco.com/performance/the-vader-shared-memory-transport-in-open-mpi-now-featuring-3-flavors-of-zero-copy

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
wrote:

> you can try
> mpirun --mca btl_base_verbose 100 ...
>
> or you can simply blacklist the btl you do *not* want to use, for example
> mpirun --mca btl ^sm
> if you want to use vader
>
> you can run
> ompi_info --all | grep vader
> to check the btl parameters,
> of course, reading the source code is the best way to understand what the
> vader btl can do and how
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gilles
>
>
>
> On 9/1/2015 1:28 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>
> Thank you Gilles. Is there some documentation on vader btl and how I can
> check which (sm or vader) is being used?
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
> wrote:
>
>> Saliya,
>>
>> OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and automatically
>> selects the best one per pair.
>> Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node communication,
>> and the sm or vader btl for
>> intra node.
>> note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available for even
>> more optimized configurations.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or options) in OpenMPI
>> to improve communication between intra node processes. For example do they
>> use something like shared memory?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Saliya
>>
>> --
>> Saliya Ekanayake
>> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
>> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
>> Indiana University, Bloomington
>> Cell 812-391-4914
>> http://saliya.org
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> Link to this post: 
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/08/27513.php
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> Searchable archives:
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27514.php
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Saliya Ekanayake
> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
> Indiana University, Bloomington
> Cell 812-391-4914
> http://saliya.org
>
>
> ___
> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>
> Link to this post: 
> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27515.php
>
>
>
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> Link to this post:
> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27516.php
>



-- 
Saliya Ekanayake
Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914
http://saliya.org

Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread George Bosilca 
Without going too much in details collective communications can be
implemented as a collection of point-to-point. Open MPI uses point-to-point
messages for collective communications inside the node-boundaries, so if
your intra-node BTL is vader you will benefit from it not only on the
point-to-point communications but also during collective.

  George.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Saliya Ekanayake  wrote:

> One more question. I found this blog from Jeff [1] on vader and I got the
> impression that it's used only for peer-to-peer communications and not for
> collectives. Is this true or did I misunderstand?
>
>
> [1]
> http://blogs.cisco.com/performance/the-vader-shared-memory-transport-in-open-mpi-now-featuring-3-flavors-of-zero-copy
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
> wrote:
>
>> you can try
>> mpirun --mca btl_base_verbose 100 ...
>>
>> or you can simply blacklist the btl you do *not* want to use, for example
>> mpirun --mca btl ^sm
>> if you want to use vader
>>
>> you can run
>> ompi_info --all | grep vader
>> to check the btl parameters,
>> of course, reading the source code is the best way to understand what the
>> vader btl can do and how
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/2015 1:28 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Gilles. Is there some documentation on vader btl and how I can
>> check which (sm or vader) is being used?
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Saliya,
>>>
>>> OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and automatically
>>> selects the best one per pair.
>>> Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node communication,
>>> and the sm or vader btl for
>>> intra node.
>>> note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available for even
>>> more optimized configurations.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or options) in
>>> OpenMPI to improve communication between intra node processes. For example
>>> do they use something like shared memory?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Saliya
>>>
>>> --
>>> Saliya Ekanayake
>>> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
>>> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
>>> Indiana University, Bloomington
>>> Cell 812-391-4914
>>> http://saliya.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
>>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>> Link to this post: 
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/08/27513.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> users mailing list
>>> us...@open-mpi.org
>>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>> Searchable archives:
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27514.php
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Saliya Ekanayake
>> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
>> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
>> Indiana University, Bloomington
>> Cell 812-391-4914
>> http://saliya.org
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>
>> Link to this post: 
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27515.php
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> Link to this post:
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27516.php
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Saliya Ekanayake
> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
> Indiana University, Bloomington
> Cell 812-391-4914
> http://saliya.org
>
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> Link to this post:
> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27517.php
>

Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread Gilles Gouaillardet 

Saliya,

btl is a point to point thing only.

collectives are implemented by the coll mca

the sm coll mca is optimized for shared memory, but support intra node 
communicators only.
the ml and hierarch coll have some optimizations for intra node 
communications.

as far as i know, none of these are used in production.

Cheers,

Gilles

On 9/1/2015 1:57 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
One more question. I found this blog from Jeff [1] on vader and I got 
the impression that it's used only for peer-to-peer communications and 
not for collectives. Is this true or did I misunderstand?



[1] 
http://blogs.cisco.com/performance/the-vader-shared-memory-transport-in-open-mpi-now-featuring-3-flavors-of-zero-copy


On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
mailto:gil...@rist.or.jp>> wrote:


you can try
mpirun --mca btl_base_verbose 100 ...

or you can simply blacklist the btl you do *not* want to use, for
example
mpirun --mca btl ^sm
if you want to use vader

you can run
ompi_info --all | grep vader
to check the btl parameters,
of course, reading the source code is the best way to understand
what the vader btl can do and how

Cheers,

Gilles



On 9/1/2015 1:28 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:

Thank you Gilles. Is there some documentation on vader btl and
how I can check which (sm or vader) is being used?

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet
mailto:gil...@rist.or.jp>> wrote:

Saliya,

OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and
automatically selects the best one per pair.
Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node
communication, and the sm or vader btl for
intra node.
note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available
for even more optimized configurations.

Cheers,

Gilles


On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:

Hi,

Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or
options) in OpenMPI to improve communication between intra
node processes. For example do they use something like
shared memory?

Thank you,
Saliya

-- 
Saliya Ekanayake

Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914 
http://saliya.org


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-- 
Saliya Ekanayake

Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914 
http://saliya.org


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--
Saliya Ekanayake
Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
Indiana University, Bloomington
Cell 812-391-4914
http://saliya.org


___
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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread George Bosilca 
The sm collective module has a priority of 0, which guarantees that it
never gets called. If you want to give it a try you should
set coll_sm_priority to any value over 30.

  George.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
wrote:

> Saliya,
>
> btl is a point to point thing only.
>
> collectives are implemented by the coll mca
>
> the sm coll mca is optimized for shared memory, but support intra node
> communicators only.
> the ml and hierarch coll have some optimizations for intra node
> communications.
> as far as i know, none of these are used in production.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gilles
>
>
> On 9/1/2015 1:57 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>
> One more question. I found this blog from Jeff [1] on vader and I got the
> impression that it's used only for peer-to-peer communications and not for
> collectives. Is this true or did I misunderstand?
>
>
> [1]
> http://blogs.cisco.com/performance/the-vader-shared-memory-transport-in-open-mpi-now-featuring-3-flavors-of-zero-copy
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
> wrote:
>
>> you can try
>> mpirun --mca btl_base_verbose 100 ...
>>
>> or you can simply blacklist the btl you do *not* want to use, for example
>> mpirun --mca btl ^sm
>> if you want to use vader
>>
>> you can run
>> ompi_info --all | grep vader
>> to check the btl parameters,
>> of course, reading the source code is the best way to understand what the
>> vader btl can do and how
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/2015 1:28 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Gilles. Is there some documentation on vader btl and how I can
>> check which (sm or vader) is being used?
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet <
>> gil...@rist.or.jp> wrote:
>>
>>> Saliya,
>>>
>>> OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and automatically
>>> selects the best one per pair.
>>> Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node communication,
>>> and the sm or vader btl for
>>> intra node.
>>> note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available for even
>>> more optimized configurations.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or options) in
>>> OpenMPI to improve communication between intra node processes. For example
>>> do they use something like shared memory?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Saliya
>>>
>>> --
>>> Saliya Ekanayake
>>> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
>>> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
>>> Indiana University, Bloomington
>>> Cell 812-391-4914
>>> http://saliya.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
>>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>> Link to this post: 
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/08/27513.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> users mailing list
>>> us...@open-mpi.org
>>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>> Searchable archives:
>>> 
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27514.php
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Saliya Ekanayake
>> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
>> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
>> Indiana University, Bloomington
>> Cell 812-391-4914
>> http://saliya.org
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>
>> Link to this post: 
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27515.php
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> Link to this post:
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27516.php
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Saliya Ekanayake
> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
> Indiana University, Bloomington
> Cell 812-391-4914
> http://saliya.org
>
>
> ___
> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>
> Link to this post: 
> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27517.php
>
>
>
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> Link to this post:
> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27519.php
>

Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI optimizations for intra-node process communication

2015-09-01 Thread Saliya Ekanayake 
Thank you George. This is what I was trying to find out after your reply
yesterday.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:32 AM, George Bosilca  wrote:

> The sm collective module has a priority of 0, which guarantees that it
> never gets called. If you want to give it a try you should
> set coll_sm_priority to any value over 30.
>
>   George.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
> wrote:
>
>> Saliya,
>>
>> btl is a point to point thing only.
>>
>> collectives are implemented by the coll mca
>>
>> the sm coll mca is optimized for shared memory, but support intra node
>> communicators only.
>> the ml and hierarch coll have some optimizations for intra node
>> communications.
>> as far as i know, none of these are used in production.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/2015 1:57 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>>
>> One more question. I found this blog from Jeff [1] on vader and I got the
>> impression that it's used only for peer-to-peer communications and not for
>> collectives. Is this true or did I misunderstand?
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://blogs.cisco.com/performance/the-vader-shared-memory-transport-in-open-mpi-now-featuring-3-flavors-of-zero-copy
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> you can try
>>> mpirun --mca btl_base_verbose 100 ...
>>>
>>> or you can simply blacklist the btl you do *not* want to use, for example
>>> mpirun --mca btl ^sm
>>> if you want to use vader
>>>
>>> you can run
>>> ompi_info --all | grep vader
>>> to check the btl parameters,
>>> of course, reading the source code is the best way to understand what
>>> the vader btl can do and how
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/1/2015 1:28 PM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Gilles. Is there some documentation on vader btl and how I can
>>> check which (sm or vader) is being used?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Gilles Gouaillardet <
>>> gil...@rist.or.jp> wrote:
>>>
 Saliya,

 OpenMPI uses btl for point to point communication, and automatically
 selects the best one per pair.
 Typically, the openib or tcp btl is used for inter node communication,
 and the sm or vader btl for
 intra node.
 note the vader btl uses the knem kernel module when available for even
 more optimized configurations.

 Cheers,

 Gilles


 On 9/1/2015 5:59 AM, Saliya Ekanayake wrote:

 Hi,

 Just trying to see if there are any optimizations (or options) in
 OpenMPI to improve communication between intra node processes. For example
 do they use something like shared memory?

 Thank you,
 Saliya

 --
 Saliya Ekanayake
 Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
 School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
 Indiana University, Bloomington
 Cell 812-391-4914
 http://saliya.org


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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Saliya Ekanayake
>>> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
>>> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
>>> Indiana University, Bloomington
>>> Cell 812-391-4914
>>> http://saliya.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
>>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>>
>>> Link to this post: 
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27515.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> users mailing list
>>> us...@open-mpi.org
>>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>> Link to this post:
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27516.php
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Saliya Ekanayake
>> Ph.D. Candidate | Research Assistant
>> School of Informatics and Computing | Digital Science Center
>> Indiana University, Bloomington
>> Cell 812-391-4914
>> http://saliya.org
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing listus...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>
>> Link to this post: 
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2015/09/27517.php
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> Subscription: http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> Link to this post:
>> http://w