windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

hi,

i am new in this world of linux. getting confused seeing a lot of linux
distro. I just want to use linux distro to learn linux from the scratch
level. please suggest me if fedora is the best place to start with. other
details are as follows:

confused between: fedora, openSUSE and ubuntu LTS

purpose of using linux: to learn from the scratch level

why linux: highly secured and better than windows

hardware: 250 gb hard disk, 2 gb ram, one samsung printer, speakers

when i use system: from a different job, whenever i get time, i do use the
system but in this less time, eager to learn linux

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Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Tom Horsley  wrote:


> > confused between: fedora, openSUSE and ubuntu LTS
>
> There isn't a lot of difference from the learning standpoint,
> but there are two main differences from an administration
> standpoint: fedora and openSUSE and many others use
> "rpm" packages and ubuntu and debian use "deb" packages
> to install software.
>
> There are various other administrative differences
> such as networking being described differently on
> fedora versus ubuntu, etc.
>

Well, I am looking for something in long terms, like the one with which I
start, I should remain there. And it must be highly secured (though I know
Linux is secured). But in future, I would learn the basics of
administration too, so please guide me which is a better administration -
rpm or deb?

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:22 PM, D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. wrote:

Ubuntu, I think is easier to get started from "scratch" with, but all
> three distributions that you listed will serve you just fine in
> learning the order of the penguin.
>

Oh I see, and in long term also, would it be good?


> Good luck
>

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Joe Wulf  wrote:

You ask good questions.
>

In fact, I was confused with (anyone would be, I guess) since it is the
ocean of distros!


> More than likely whichever flavor you try---you'll learn things.  Several
> points:
> -  Pick one and stick with it for a while.  Also, to learn more---you'll
> find a wealthy abundance of resources online to read up on.
> -  Assuming your main platform is Windows... consider something like
> "VirtualBox.org" in order to leverage virtualization (free even!) and build
> your unix/linux skills.
> -  Evaluate unix/linux forums (such as "nixcraft.com") where you can
> read, and ask questions.  There are many other good ones, too.
>

Okay.


> Best of luck to you in your new adventure!!!
>

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:45 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 <
n2xssvv.g02gfr12...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Others have already mentioned the packaging using either deb or rpm
> files, but you should also try downloading the various demo CD spins.
> This will give you a quick feel for the various GUI options available,
> and some of the software available.
>

I try live CDs too then.

Meanwhile, welcome to Linux, and I'm sure the penguin community and I
> wish you well in your adoption of Linux
>

Thanks.

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Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:45 AM, T.C. Hollingsworth <
tchollingswo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I am really thankful to all of you, Marko Vojinovic, Tim and all the
members for such great suggestions.

However, it was a coincidence that I have some Ubuntu LTS CD and just
installed it. Everything was okay and I have only some small issues. Well I
aslo had an CD of openSUSE 11.4, which I was installing (trying to). I had
some issues in it. I am writing these issues here, please elucidate it.

[FEDORA CORE IS GETTING DOWNLOADING as you suggested, I am going to give
live CDs a chance] But before I could successfully Install Fedora (after
downloading), I just clear my some doubts I had with the installation of
openSUSE which are as follows:

Thanks and Regards.

_


I installed Unbuntu LTS (had its CD). But I have planned to go with .rpm
side (whatever be the reasons, Fedora is under downloading process). Well,
right now I am having one CD of openSUSE 11.4 too. I just want to see how
openSUSE looks, before again installing Fedora. A couple of things,
confusing me a lot here are as follows. I am going step by step what I did
and what exactly I found in this operation of installing openSUSE 11.4.

Inserted the CD in the CD-ROM (yes it was the first boot option).
Everything was going on smooth but after some time I came to the windows
where I have to do something regarding 'partitioning'. The CD, by default
showed with the following output. It said me as followed:
 __

-Delete partition /dev/sda5 (111.25 GB)
-Create root volume /dev/sda6 (20.00 GB) with ext4
-Create volume /dev/sda6 (91.25 GB) for /home with ext4
-Use /dev/sda5 as swap
 -Set mount point of /dev/sda1 to /widows/c
 __

I continued with this (the above) default scheme which it took and didn't
click to 'edit the partition'. Finally arrived at the page where the
summary of what the distro is going to do in finally (for installation). At
this page/step was written in red, the following message:
 __

"The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely
below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24 (result
is error 18 during install grub MBR)."
 __

What does it ('the installation process') want to say?

Further, I was confused with what partitions to delete with. So I am giving
here that table also (which came at the same step on which above error
came). But before I give, I just want to tell that my requirement was to
install openSUSE only in the space in which current Ubuntu is residing and
making Windows XP remain intact (only my sis uses it).

Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the
above error (in red) came) was as follows:
 __

/dev/sda 232.89 GB

/dev/sda1   116.88 GB   HPFS/NTFSNTFS  /windows/c

/dev/sda1   116.01 GB   Extended

/dev/sad5   4.75 GB   Linux swapSwap Swap

/dev/sda6   20.00   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /

/dev/sda7   91.25   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /home
 __

In this partition table,

First line: Well, /dev/sda is the whole of hard disk and its capacity is
232.89 GB. Its well understood. But when I bought, the vendor told me the
capacity of 250 GB, so remaining (250-232.89) GB=17.11 GB are where, I
don't know.

Second line: /dev/sda1 is the Windows partition, and I guess it is taking
number '1' since it is the default boot option...? It has been formated by
NTFS file system as shown clearly.

Third line: /dev/sda1 extended? Is it windows only? If yes, why its size is
116.01 GB? and not 116.88 GB (which is in the line just above it). What
does it mean?

Fourth line: /dev/sda5 Okay Linux swap, understood and it is separate
partition. I don't know where /dev/sda2, /dev/sda3, /dev/sda4 have gone??
>From '1' it has jumped to -->> '5'...!

Fifth line: /dev/sda6 is the root, since at the last symbol '/' is coming
and again its a separate partition. But why it is calling Linux native? And
why there is coming a 'F' written just after 20.00 GB, what is it
representing?

Sixth line: /dev/sda7 ok its /home (written at the last), but it is also
'Linux native' and again that 'F'.

On the same stage (on which the partition table and the error in red was
being displayed), I had one more thing interesting, it is as follows. It
was under the heading 'Change Location':-
 __

-Boot from MBR is disabled (enable)
-Boot from "/" partition is disabled (enable)
 __

I don't know WHY to enable any one of the above options or to enable both
or to not touch? And what does they mean (the above options).

After I got this all, I j

Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Michael Ekstrand wrote:

That depends entirely on who you ask. Here, you are likely to get
> pro-RPM answers, as Fedora uses RPM and people choose it for a reason.
> Each has features and niceties that the other does not. Both are good
> package formats and systems; they just have different opinions about how
> the world works.
>
> RPM maintains data for verification of installed software. That has
> saved me on at least one occasion.
>
> DEB has the concept of optional dependencies, which can offer you
> greater flexibility in managing what software is installed on your
> system. That is probably the biggest Debian/Ubuntu package management
> feature I miss since switching to Fedora.
>
> If you're going to build packages, they're mostly just different. Both
> are pretty easy to do once you know what's going on; I find RPM slightly
> easier, but Debian provides lots of nice helper scripts for package
> builds (and those are inherited by Ubuntu).
>
> Pick one. You won't really go wrong. In my opinion, software
> availability, quality, and maintenance culture are more important
> factors for picking a Linux distribution than package manager, unless
> you have prior package manager knowledge you're looking to carry with
> you.  From those perspectives, I have selected Fedora (after using
> Debian and Ubuntu for quite some time), but YMMV.


For whatever reason(s) (which actually I also don't understand at this
stage), I have decided to go with the .rpm side of Linux. As you say both
are great, so yes, anyone I choose, I win!

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Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

The main advantage of Linux systems is openness.
>

Correct but I am considering security too! Well, Linux is good overall.

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Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Tom Horsley  wrote:

I would say they are just different, not better or worse, though if
> you like a GUI package management tool, nothing beats "synaptic"
> on the ubuntu/debian family (I tend to prefer the command line
> tools since I use ssh to get to most systems and don't want
> to fool with remote X display, so for me it doesn't matter
> much if I use yum versus apt-get or rpm versus dpkg - it is
> just a question of sorting out all the command line options).
>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:10 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 <
n2xssvv.g02gfr12...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I like the openness, as well as the reliability, (it is much less likely
> to crash than windows).
>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Emilio Lopez  wrote:

I think Fedora is a good distro to start. As Joe Wulf said, is a good
> idea to install it in VirtualBox first, so you can play with linux &
> windows at the same time, and make the transition easier.
>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:02 PM, suvayu ali wrote:

The OP can also try out the live media for the three distros. I
> personally think live media is the least hassle free way to see what
> one is getting into before actual installation.
>

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Errol Mangwiro  wrote:

Yumex fan over here.


On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:46 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:

Both are equally good; it's like asking if chocolate is better than
> vanilla.  And, most things you're going to install will be available in
> both forms.  If you're looking for a highly secured distribution (or,
> "distro") Fedora is one good choice, as it includes SELinux: "Security
> Enhanced Linux."
>

I agree with all of the above and try live CDs and going with .rpm side.

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Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Ian Malone  wrote:

I would say the opposite, Fedora's short release cycle isn't for
> everyone (and I say this as someone who's used Fedora as their main OS
> since FC1 came out) and Fedora upgrades are maybe slightly more
> painful than Ubuntu ones. Ubuntu has an LTS (long term support)
> version which may allow you to avoid upgrading for a while and
> upgrades are more like large system updates (think service pack in
> Windows). RPM vs deb, yes there are differences, but it's probably
> going to be one of the last things you notice.
>
> For a beginner coming from Windows I think the major hurdle for either
> Ubuntu or Fedora (which are the two 'flagship' choices) is that their
> default desktop is now very different to windows. I was introduced to
> Unity (Ubuntu) last weekend and personally I think it's more awkward
> than Gnome-shell (Fedora). So you may want to look at XFCE or KDE
> spins of Fedora or Ubuntu. Live CDs and VirtualBox (haven't tried that
> one) are a good way to dip into the water.
>
> From a security point of view, Fedora perhaps focuses on security a
> bit more than Ubuntu does. This is a bit of a two edged sword if you
> find SELinux is preventing you doing something it shouldn't, but
> that's a much rarer occurence these days. It's also intentionally on
> the cutting edge, this means you get cut sometimes which often means
> time spent sorting out issues.
>
> Lastly, media friendliness: Fedora, again by choice, includes only
> software that can be described as free and open source, this excludes
> several things such as mp3 playback from the core system. There are
> easy solutions to this these days (just set up rpmfusion), but it does
> represent an extra level of difficulty (on the other hand, it isn't
> really difficult and might be a useful first exercise for somebody
> wanting to learn how things work). Ubuntu tends to include everything
> they think they can get away with.
>
> Haven't mentioned SUSE as I haven't used it for years.
>

Came to conclude whatever I choose, have to dig it out to know the things,
Linux is Linux.
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Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:08 AM, Rick Stevens  wrote:

Keep in mind that Fedora is a "cutting edge" distribution.  It's
> generally completely "updated" (replaced) every 6 months and old
> versions are only supported for two updates, e.g. when Fedora 16
> comes out, Fedora 14 will be obsoleted and orphaned (no updates).
>
> If you want a relatively stable environment (and if you're just
> learning, that might be a good idea), I'd go with Ubuntu, Debian or
> CentOS (CentOS is built from the same source as Red Hat Enterprise
> Linux).
>
> If you're willing to bleed a bit, then yeah, Fedora is the way to
> go.  As the old saying goes, "If you're not on the edge, you're taking
> up too much space." (he says, with tongue planted firmly in cheek)
>

Yeah and for learning purposes I guess too this is well, as somebody points
correct: I am going to stick with one particular distro for some time so
that I can know what exactly is Linux.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Gary Baribault  wrote:

 Hi, All three of the distributions you mentioned are major .. Ubuntu is
> more of a graphical Linux which will keep you safe, but will also restrict
> your learning experience in the sense that getting to a Root
> (administrator) command line is not encouraged. Fedore and SuSE are the
> other two major distributions, I personally used to use SuSE and have moved
> back to Fedora which has improved a lot lately (last 3 years). To me they
> are equivalent, but SuSE belongs to Novell, which was sold recently to
> AtachMate. SuSE also works closer with Microsoft, which for a Windows guy
> would seem better but for a Linux guy, makes us somewhat nervous!
>
> RPM/DEB both work well, and shouldn't influence your choice.
>

Yeah, but decided to go with .rpm side (whatever be the reasons, I don't
understand).

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:11 AM, Roger  wrote:

rpm or deb really doesn't matter, administration is, to me, about
> understanding the operating system components/applications.
>
> I use both Fedora and Ubuntu and have done so for years. Both have
> advantages.
> Ubuntu is stable, upgrades with no fuss, it's good for things that you
> "just want to work" and I've never noticed deb.
>
> Fedora is also very good and I no longer hold with the axium "If you
> ain't on the edge, you're taking too much space".
> As one small example, my Laser printer Fuji Xerox. Setting up laser
> printer in Fedora right up to Fedora 14 was a pain, pig of a job, hard
> to do at the best of times. Why! Fedora still did not see printers on
> USB. This is one reason I am reluctant to upgrade.
>
> Ubuntu found the printer.
>

That's a great point with Ubuntu that it finds automatically (as you are
saying) but in Fedora/SUSE, I guess installation or some troubleshooting
should be there before it (distro) catches the automatic detection of the
attached hard ware like printer. I doubt if it (fedora) would detect my
samsung (old) printer or not.


> I watch list discussion religiously to gauge Fedora problems before
> deciding whether to fresh install the next version. I usually skip 1 or
> 2 versions before doing so.
> I prefer Fedora for web development because it's file systems and
> commands are same as our server OS Centos, where as Ubuntu
> "apparently"   does things differently, files named differently and in
> different file systems.
>
> You have a 250 g hd. you can run 3 operating systems as suggested, in
> virtualbox or partitions, and see which works for you, but, while there
> is not much to pick between ubuntu and Fedora they are very different
> from windows.
>

That's a good point, I can try that, first start the download of all the
required CDs.

>
> My thoughts on long term would suggest go with Ubuntu. I would say that
> once you are accustomed to Linux you will likely want to explore and
> will probably install Fedora or other on a separate partition so it is
> independent of Ubuntu.
>

I agree with you. So that a little exposure to Linux would be there and
then after getting some legs wet, I guess it would be easier for me.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 6:55 AM, D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. wrote:

All of the distributions listed have excellent support and release
> cycles, meaning you won't be worrying about when you're going to get
> the shiny new software.
>

Ah, well.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Tim  wrote:

It's always going to be hard to answer "which is best" queries.  As
> there's numerous criteria, and conflicting answers.
>
> If you want free support from other users, I would say Fedora and
> Ubuntu.  I haven't seen openSuse to comment on it.  I've noticed more
> knowledgeable answers on the Fedora list than the Ubuntu list, which
> seems to have more dumb suggestions, last time I looked.  By that I mean
> silly suggestions from people clearly don't know what they're talking
> about, and no corrections to such advice.
>

Oh I see. I guess Ubuntu seems more easier but not as technical as is
Fedora!


> That may have changed, with time.  But

Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:22 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

(1) WELCOME to the Linux community!
>

Thanks.


> (2) Don't hesitate to ask for help. This mailing list is a great resource
> of
> information and is followed by people who are seasoned linux users, as
> well as
> freshmen. That said, don't get offended by some nervous people telling you
> to
> "do your homework", point you to lmgtfy.com, and such. We have all been
> beginners once, and those who cannot tolerate beginner's questions should
> not
> be taken too seriously. ;-)
>

Yes, that really is good thing, beginners like me sometimes could ask some
silly questions (it may be due to not use of Linux ever) but always happy
to get the answer.


> (3) It's actually a good idea to do your own research before asking a
> question
> here. Look up the topic in google, search the mailing list archives, read a
> man page (those are the "instruction manuals" for a whole bunch of stuff in
> Linux), etc. Expect a learning curve, regardless of the distro you choose.
> Some things that are trivial in Windows (like, play mp3 music) are quite
> nontrivial in Fedora (only the first time you try it, of course), and vice
> versa. The difference between Windows and Linux is not just the security,
> names
> and price. Migrating to Linux means that you need to change your way of
> *thinking* about how a computer can or should be used.
>
For example, the idea of graphical user interface (a GUI) in Linux is just a
> commodity that is sometimes frowned upon. In contrast to Windows, where
> GUI is
> the *only* user interface available, in Linux mostly everything can be
> done on
> the command line (the CLI, or shell prompt, or console, or...). Learning to
> use it is one of the best ways to learn Linux. In Windows the "MS-DOS
> Prompt"
> is basically a thing of ancient history, and has no serious function in the
> system. This is just one of the *conceptual* differences you are about to
> encounter. Filesystem permissions and "don't log in as root" is another. If
> you have used only Windows so far, your complete knowledge about computers
> is
> about to be challenged, and you should expect that and embrace it.
>

I agree with you. I came to know that how Windows used to ties the hands,
even without using Linux. However, I am not from technical field of
softwares, and also was not Windows admin or something like that, but still
with a great surety claim that Linux is Linux, Windows is nothing in front
of it - in any aspect you can compare.


> Finally, the choice of actual distro to start learning is quite immaterial.
> Any will do. What you should plan, however, is the strategy to stick to
> some
> distro for a while (say, 6 months), and then switch to another, in order to
> compare and learn what is the same and what is distro-specific. It doesn't
> really matter where you start from... ;-)
>

Yes, perhaps any distro would give me the basics of Linux.

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Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 6:30 AM,  wrote:

The _basics_ are the same (certainly from an end-user point of view)
> Perhaps the best advice I can give you, is: put an extra harddisc in your
> PC.
> (if you are the "hasty type" consider a 250GB SDD)
>
> And you pick blindly any distro, and just get your hands wet.
> Don't be afraid to make mistakes: we all learned from our owns.
> Nowadays, you can't really break anything anymore.
> And if you manually change config files: make a copy of it, and if you are
> satisfied with it:
> Print it out and/or save it on a usb-stick.
> (so if you have to re-install it, you don't have to re-invent your wheel)
>
> Biggest diff, is the look-and-feel of the desktop managers, and the
> appropriate applications.
> But otoh KDE or Gnome (a certain version) looks the same on any distro.
>

Oh I see.


> So just try it. Work with it a couple of months. And try something else.
> Read the available docu.
> What is best suited for you only depends on you only.
>
> I started with slackware, tried RedHat, Debian, SuSE, CentOS, netBSD,
> FreeBSD.
> Perhaps I should try Gentoo...
> They all have their pro's and con's
>

You and other people here are really having great experiences.


> And for Tyro: Just try and find out what _you_ like best.
> There is no replacement for experience.
>

I agree this statement with blind eyes. 'Self-experience' is the biggest
satisfaction, it is in fact practical implementation in life!

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Joe Wulf  wrote:

Marko---really liked the pleasant and balanced reply---excellent!
> LinuxTyro---glad to see you replying to all the posts, keeping engaged,
> and having an open mind.
>

The only reason why I cannot fully devote myself here is due to the fact of
mine being in some other job, so I get really less time to learn Linux, but
as said, whenever, I get, I do try to sit in front of PC, however, it could
be as low as 5 to 10 minutes (not a joke)! I liked the Fedora Community,
really get very nice, technical and logical answers with a skilled aptitude.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:

The printer on the usb port was found on all Fedora versions I have used
> since F13. Earlier I had a different printer. So the problem with your
> printer may not be completely a Fedora problem.
>

Oh I see.
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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

 > "The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely
> > below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24
> (result
> > is error 18 during install grub MBR)."
> >  __
> >
> > What does it ('the installation process') want to say?
>
> Ok, you need to learn a bit or two about booting a PC. Dual-booting is a
> nontrivial thing to setup, so you need to be aware of what is actually
> going
> on inside.
>
> You want to read about that on
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting#Boot_sequence_on_standard_PC_.28IBM-
> PC_compatible.29
>

I am going to read this all as soon as I get the time.


> When you turn on a computer, the very first thing that happens is that the
> motherboard oscillator clock stats ticking. This invokes a piece of
> hardware
> that sends a reset signal to the processor. The processor than resets
> itself
> and starts executing commands from a fixed predetermined position in
> memory.
> This is where the bios resides.
>
> The bios gets loaded, does a bunch of initialization and self-testing
> stuff,
> and eventually looks up the MBR (master boot record) of your hard disk, to
> load an operating system.
>
> The MBR is located at the very beginning of the hard drive, and is 512
> bytes
> long. It contains the partition table of the disk, and a "stage 1"
> bootloader
> --- a small piece of code which knows "where to look" for an operating
> system
> to load. Now comes the catch --- this piece of code is very
> size-constrained,
> so it relies on bios routines to access the remainder of the hard disk. The
> bios, however, may be old, and not have built-in support to access the
> whole
> space of the 250 GB hard drive. Or maybe it can. It depends on your
> particular
> bios, and the SuSE installation cannot check whether bios is capable of
> this
> or not.
>

Oh I see.


> In the end, you get the warning that the "stage 2" bootloader, which is to
> be
> positioned at the beginning of the /dev/sda6 partition, might be out of
> reach
> of bios. If it is, your system would fail to boot the SuSE installation.
> Windows would be bootable no problem, because its "stage2" bootloader is at
> the beginning of the /dev/sda1, which is on the "near end" of the hard
> drive,
> and thus certainly within the reach of bios.
>

What earlier I used to think is that, "BIOS only send the instructions to
the boot-loader (probably or whatever it sends the signal to) to just boot,
BIOS has not such a bigger memory to have the hard-disk, so hard-disk is
always beyond the hands of BIOS, but rather BIOS just sends the signal that
***IT*** should be booted and ***THAT*** gets booted.

Of course, once the OS gets booted,


from which location?


> it can see the whole disk with no
> problems, because the OS kernel (both the Windows and Linux one) is much
> more
> powerful than the bios, and does not rely on the bios to access the disk.
>

Okay.

You have two options:
>
> (1) To look up the docs/specifications of your bios version on the
> Internet,
> and read wheter or not it supports large hard drives (and how large).
>
(2) To experiment --- proceed with the installation of SuSE and hope that
> bios
> can access the disk that far. My bet is that it can, since Ubuntu had no
> problems booting from the same place on the disk. ;-)
>

You are absolutely correct and I got booted with SUSE, installed it with
all that default options and it got booted!


>  > Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the
> > above error (in red) came) was as follows:
> >  __
> >
> > /dev/sda 232.89 GB
> > /dev/sda1   116.88 GB   HPFS/NTFSNTFS  /windows/c
> > /dev/sda1   116.01 GB   Extended
> > /dev/sad5   4.75 GB   Linux swapSwap Swap
> > /dev/sda6   20.00   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /
> > /dev/sda7   91.25   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /home
> >  __
> >
> > First line: Well, /dev/sda is the whole of hard disk and its capacity is
> > 232.89 GB. Its well understood. But when I bought, the vendor told me the
> > capacity of 250 GB, so remaining (250-232.89) GB=17.11 GB are where, I
> > don't know.
>
> Q: How many meters are there in a kilometer?
> A: 1024 --- ask any programmer! :-)
>
> You want to read about that on
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Unit_multiples
>
> When a disk manufacturer says 1GB, they typically mean 1 000 000 000 bytes,
> which is 1000^3. When an OS says 1 GB (or more precisely 1GiB), it means
> 1 073 741 824 bytes, which is 1024^3. Hence the difference.
>
> Also, some of the space on the disk is used up for filesystem data (and its
> backups), some of it may be reserved for root (for administration
> purposes),
> etc.
>

Ah well.


>  > Second line: /dev/sda1 is the Windows partition, and I guess it is
> taking
> > nu

Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

This is how bootloading works... First, there is bios, which is programmed
> to
> look for and execute the boot code in the MBR, and it does so at some
> point.
> The "look for and execute" means that bios needs to access the MBR of the
> disk, read it into RAM memory, analyze whether the data contained there is
> executable, and if it is to point the processor to execute it.
>
> The "program" that gets executed like that is called the stage 1
> bootloader,
> and it is very very small (like 512 bytes or so), since the MBR doesn't
> have
> more space available. What this program does is to tell the bios to access
> some physical part of the hard disk, load it into memory and execute it.
> The
> bios knows nothing about partitions and filesystems, so it cannot be just
> pointed to "beginning of the partition /dev/sda6", but rather it must be
> given
> "physical" address of the place where it should look for data. This is
> explained in more detail in
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing
>
> The stage 1 bootloader has the LBA address of the beginning of the
> /dev/sda6
> partition, the LBA address of the end of the data to be read in, and the
> code
> to instruct the bios to go there, read that much data into memory, and
> execute
> it. If the bios is not designed to access the LBA address that far on the
> disk, it will fail and the machine won't boot. If it can, it goes there,
> reads
> the data into memory, and executes it.
>
> This data is called the stage 2 bootloader. It is a larger and more
> complicated program. It understands filesystems, it has a configuration
> file (in
> Fedora it is the /boot/grub/grub.conf file, feel free to take a look), it
> can
> interact with a user and offer various choices for the OS to boot. Once the
> bios loads it into memory and executes it, the stage 2 bootloader reads up
> its
> configuration file, on the /dev/sda6 partition. If the file isn't there,
> the boot
> fails (so the Ubuntu bootloader won't work if you deleted the Ubuntu system
> partition). Once the configuration is processed, the user is presented with
> options to load various OS's. Once the user makes a choice, the bootloader
> will do whatever is specified for that OS in the config file. Typically,
> it will
> load the kernel file (/boot/vmlinuz-something) into memory, and execute
> it. It
> doesn't need the bios for this anymore, since it knows how to access the
> disk
> itself.
>
> Another typical situation is to not load a kernel, but instead read some
> other
> stage 2 bootloader that resides on, say, /dev/sda1, and let that take over
> and
> repeat the whole thing for another OS. This is called chainloading, and
> that
> is how Windows gets booted from the Linux bootloader.
>
> At any rate, eventually some kernel gets loaded into memory, and the
> bootloader instructs the processor to execute that. And that's where the
> *real* fun begins... ;-) But that's another story,,, :-)
>
> > > Of course, once the OS gets booted,
> >
> > from which location?
>
> In Linux, the kernel is typically a file called vmlinuz-, and it
> resides in the /boot directory of the filesystem tree. This directory can
> be
> basically anywhere --- on its own partition, on the / partition, on some
> other
> disk, etc...  The stage 2 bootloader just needs to know where to look for
> it.
>
> In Windows, the kernel is (IIRC) the file C:\Windows\ntoskrnl.exe, or
> something
> like that. The stage 2 bootloader of Windows knows where and how to find
> it.
> The Windows' stage 2 bootloader gets loaded into memory and gets executed
> by
> the Linux stage 2 bootloader, if you choose to boot Windows when asked (the
> chainloading process).
>
> In other OS's the kernel file may be called whatever and be situated
> whereever,
> depending on the OS. ;-)
>
> > SUSE would automatically delete the MBR (which right now points to
> Ubuntu)
> > and would set the other defaults.in it?
>
> Yes, SuSE would wipe and rework the MBR so that it contains the stage 1
> bootloader that points to SuSE's new stage 2 bootloader, instead of the old
> Ubuntu's stage 2 bootloader (which was deleted during SuSE installation).
> Otherwise the transition from stage 1 to stage 2 in the boot sequence above
> would be broken.
>


> Yes. The above explanation should give you a clear idea what would happen
> if
> you leave Ubuntu stage 1 loader in MBR, and delete the stage 2 loader
> (along
> with the rest of the Ubuntu installation).
>
> Nothing is permanent, of course, it would just be a hassle to fix. Neither
> Windows nor Linux would boot, and you would need to boot from the
> installation
> DVD or something called the "Rescue CD", and use the rescue environment to
> reinstall both stages of the Linux bootloader (or reinstall Linux
> completely).
> You would need to know how to use the rescue environment and how to
> reconfigure
> the GRUB (the Linux bootloader) so that it loads e

Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:


> Nothing is permanent, of course, it would just be a hassle to fix. Neither
> Windows nor Linux would boot, and you would need to boot from the
> installation
> DVD or something called the "Rescue CD", and use the rescue environment to
> reinstall both stages of the Linux bootloader (or reinstall Linux
> completely).
> You would need to know how to use the rescue environment and how to
> reconfigure
> the GRUB (the Linux bootloader) so that it loads everything correctly. This
> requires reading the documentation, which is on the Internet and you can
> have
> a hard time accessing it, since your computer doesn't boot...


And without rescue CD (in this case of non-boot-ability), there is no other
option like booting from the installation CD (allocating the whole space to
one distro, like Fedora/SUSE)

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

This is how bootloading works...
>

Well, since (now) /home is a separate partition, but we cannot boot from
/home only because it is not containing the required file to get booted and
it is only for storing the data.?

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:


> In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home
> partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.


> You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is
> used
> for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite
> apps,
> local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings"
> folder
> in Windows, only much more useful.
>

Ah well, asked just for information, not going to do that, really there is
not reason to do that. But why I asked because everytime we do partition on
the hard disk when we can boot from each partition so just thought in that
way that /home is a partition but still it is there to have data only...

I was confused since I thought earlier that partitions are always bootable,
but we can have /home as partition which is still not booted (for
clarification).


> Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate
> partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the
> planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to
> use
> it.


Well, I could have all the separate partitions like you say, but as you
said to have only the separate partitions of '/' and 'home', so now I have
only Three partitions:-

linuxworld@linux-g34l:~> sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xfedcfedc

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1  63   245106699   122553318+   7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2   *   245108734   488396799   1216440335  Extended
/dev/sda5   478427136   488396799 4984832   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6   245108736   28704972720970496   83  Linux
/dev/sda7   287051776   47841484795681536   83  Linux

Partition table entries are not in disk order

But I don't know having separate all the partitions would server a good
purpose for initial tasks...? Perhaps they (people) might be using it  for
their personal reasons... (whatever those reasons are...).

One more thing amazing me is that, (however it could be a silly doubt, I
don't know...) when I typed in Ubuntu:

sudo fdisk -l

it worked. But here when I type the above command it doesn't work, but
rather what I need to type here is as follows:

sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Now, why that /sbin/ is coming, is it a bug (please don't laugh if it is
not...).

Thanks man.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:


> In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home
> partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.


> You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is
> used
> for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite
> apps,
> local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings"
> folder
> in Windows, only much more useful.
>

Ah well, asked just for information, not going to do that, really there is
not reason to do that. But why I asked because everytime we do partition on
the hard disk when we can boot from each partition so just thought in that
way that /home is a partition but still it is there to have data only...

I was confused since I thought earlier that partitions are always bootable,
but we can have /home as partition which is still not booted (for
clarification).


> Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate
> partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the
> planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to
> use
> it.


Well, I could have all the separate partitions like you say, but as you
said to have only the separate partitions of '/' and 'home', so now I have
only Three partitions:-

linuxworld@linux-g34l:~> sudo /sbin/fdisk -l


Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes

Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xfedcfedc

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1  63   245106699   122553318+   7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2   *   245108734   488396799   1216440335  Extended
/dev/sda5   478427136   488396799 4984832   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6   245108736   28704972720970496   83  Linux
/dev/sda7   287051776   47841484795681536   83  Linux

Partition table entries are not in disk order

But I don't know having separate all the partitions would server a good
purpose for initial tasks...? Perhaps they (people) might be using it  for
their personal reasons... (whatever those reasons are...).

One more thing amazing me is that, (however it could be a silly doubt, I
don't know...) when I typed in Ubuntu:

sudo fdisk -l

it worked. But here when I type the above command it doesn't work, but
rather what I need to type here is as follows:

sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Now, why that /sbin/ is coming, is it a bug (please don't laugh if it is
not...).

Thanks man.

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Re: windows migrant: choosing linux distribution

[Linux Tyro]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Heinz Diehl  wrote:

There are lots of good distributions out there. Just download a live
> CD .ISO, burn it, boot it and see what you've got. After playing
> around a little while with all of them, you'll surely find your way.
>

Sure and thanks man.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 7:27 AM, Ian Malone  wrote:


> True, but I thought I shouldn't overcomplicate an already long email
> by getting into a discussion about how you define free (or Free)
> software. Hence 'free and open source'.
>

Aah, well.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Joe Zeff  wrote:

For a partition to be bootable, it has to have the appropriate files on
> it to boot your computer.  Can you give me one reason why you'd want to
> have those files in /home, even if it is on its own partition, as it is
> on my computers?
>

Not have but just asked for clarification.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Greg Woods  wrote:

Yes, I can. I have a system with Windows dual boot, and I want to be
> able to hibernate Linux, boot into Windows, and then resume Linux from
> hibernation. With recent versions of Fedora, this is not possible from
> the standard grub configuration, because hibernating does something to
> the master boot loader block that causes it to boot immediately into the
> same Linux kernel that was hibernated, rather than presenting the usual
> boot menu. I do not have the option of booting Windows instead. This is
> done to prevent someone from accidentally booting the wrong kernel, thus
> clobbering their hibernation info. That is rather like shutting down the
> computer by pulling the plug out of the wall, which can obviously have
> bad consequences.
>

I really don't know what is hibernation and all that. Can you step by step
let me know or point me to the link what is hibdernation for beginners?


> Unfortunately, this safeguard does get in the way of my desire to
> hibernate Linux and boot into Windows. So I get around this by booting
> from /home. The master boot block contains pointers to the /home boot
> configuration that has nothing in it but chainloaders. Then grub inside
> Fedora is installed only on the Fedora root partition. This only
> requires that the contents of /boot/grub be copied
> to /home/boot/grub,  /home/boot/grub/grub.conf be edited appropriately,
> and that grub be installed on the master boot sector with root pointed
> at the /home partition.
>
> Doing it this way, when I fire up the machine, I am given a choice of
> Fedora or Windows. If I select Windows, then Windows will boot and run
> normally. If I select Fedora, then the boot block from the Fedora
> partition is loaded, the hibernated kernel immediately boots, and all is
> as I want it to be. That can also work with multiple Linux systems
> booting, as long as they do not share any swap partitions.
>
> So this is at least one reason why someone might want to boot
> from /home. It does, of course, require that you be comfortable playing
> around with boot loaders, and be comfortable reinstalling the master
> boot block from a rescue CD or DVD (in case you screw up, which of
> course I have done and had to recover this way).
>

I guess this much advanced and I am not able to understand all this - a
typical thoery. If you can explain step by step, I can understand. THANX
but a bit of it was understood by me.

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A general history question

[Linux Tyro]

Hi,

Excited to see this world of Linux. A general question came in mind
regarding the origin of Linux.

Well, it (Linux) is basically a kernel -- perhaps same in majority of all
the distros, almost all. Well, openSUSE also uses the technique of .rpm
which is again Red Hat Package Manager. So basically i get to know that it
was initially in Linux two sides -- 1) debian 2) rpm (as already discussed)
but just wanted to know that openSUSE also has been derived from Redhat
like many other distros have?

And out of debian and .rpm, both seem to be the oldest but I guess debian
is more old...? Was just talking of linux not unix (like freebsd).

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Re: A general history question

[Linux Tyro]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Linux Tyro  wrote:

Excited to see this world of Linux. A general question came in mind
> regarding the origin of Linux.
>
> Well, it (Linux) is basically a kernel -- perhaps same in majority of all
> the distros, almost all. Well, openSUSE also uses the technique of .rpm
> which is again Red Hat Package Manager. So basically i get to know that it
> was initially in Linux two sides -- 1) debian 2) rpm (as already discussed)
> but just wanted to know that openSUSE also has been derived from Redhat
> like many other distros have?
>
> And out of debian and .rpm, both seem to be the oldest but I guess debian
> is more old...? Was just talking of linux not unix (like freebsd).
>

Well, this question might seem silly to somebody but being a beginner these
question(s) often come in mind, so I just get to know the better
experiences of the people -- of course Linux experts. If it (this question)
is irrelevant, I am sorry, just cancel the question.

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Re: A general history question

[Linux Tyro]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:37 PM, inode0  wrote:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution
>

I read this..

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Don Quixote de la Mancha <
quix...@dulcineatech.com> wrote:

Richard Stallman and his colleagues at The Freesoftware Foundation
> assert that the proper term is "GNU/Linux", because in reality linux
> is just - "just!" - the operating system kernel.
>
> There's not a whole lot you can do with a kernel all by itself.  While
> the kernel is the first program to run in a complete operating system,
> with all the other programs being launched via the facilities of the
> kernel, a complete system - what we know as a "distribution" or
> "distro" - requires user space runtime libraries such as the Standard
> C Library, "daemons" that run invisibly in the background, some way to
> set up the configuration of the system - for GNU/Linux, these are text
> files mostly located in /etc - tools to allow the user to create,
> delete and edit various file formats, and for a computer with a
> graphical user interface, a way for the screen "real estate" to be
> divided up among programs that want to display graphics, as well as to
> send keyboard and mouse input to the appropriate GUI program.
>
> Richard Stallman originally set out to write a complete new - and
> better - source code-compatible clone of the very proprietary,
> expensive and closed-source operating system UNIX.
>
>  Among his reasons for wanting to do so was that the source to UNIX
> was at first distributed more or less freely by AT&T, when AT&T was
> broken up into many competing telephone companies.  The AT&T breakup
> also lifted many of the regulatory restrictions once placed on AT&T as
> a natural monopoly.  Now free of the restrictions that prevented it
> from competing in the computer business, AT&T realized there was money
> to be made in selling UNIX.
>
> A UNIX SystemV binary-executable license was expensive, with the
> license price increasing with the number of allowable logged-in users.
>
> A SystemV source code license was collosally expensive, with the
> licensees being bound by restrictive non-disclosure agreements, as
> well as the obligation to pay AT&T for any source or binaries that the
> licensees passed on to others.  Such source licenses were only
> affordable to those who found some way to charge a lot of money for
> whatever they produced from it.
>
> Stallman - or RMS as he prefers to be called - started out by
> developing GNU - which stands for "GNU's Not UNIX", which itself
> expands to "GNU's Not UNIX Not UNIX" and so on - from the outside in.
> That is, rather than writing a kernel from scratch than adding user
> space software that ran on top of that kernel, RMS and his colleagues
> at The Free Software Foundation developed a great deal of user space
> software first.
>
> RMS and I share a common trait for which we are both often criticized:
> we are very picky about our work, and don't particularly care if it
> takes a long time to get it right.
>
> More or less the first program that RMS wrote for use by GNU was a
> text editor called GNU Emacs.  That originally stood for "Editor
> Macros", as it was originally a set of simple macros, more or less
> like Word or Excel macros, for the editor that was built in to the
> LISP artificial intelligence workstations that RMS used at the MIT AI
> Laboratory in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
>
> Writing Emacs in C, with an integrated LISP interpreter enabled Emacs
> to be portable to other kinds of computers, with Emacs being quite
> powerfuly extensible by writing Emacs LISP (or elisp) programs for it.
>
> Emacs is pretty small and quick by today's standards, compared to say
> Firefox or the Gnome or KDE desktops, but back in the day it was said
> to stand for not "Editor Macros" but "Eight Megs And Constantly
> Swapping" - I first used it on a 16 MHz Sun Workstation with but four
> megabytes of memory! - as well as "Emacs Makes A Computer Slow".
>
> When Emacs was used on a GUI computer, it was popular to give it a
> Kitchen Sink icon!
>
> It could readily be argued that RMS would have by now made a lot more
> progress with GNU had he not spent so much time writing Emacs,
> improving it as well as porting it to so many completely alien
> computing platforms.  However, if you learn to use Emacs really,
> really well, you well find that it can do a great deal more than edit
> text.  For most coders who are Emacs fans, it does everything that
> today's Integrated Development Environments such as Visual Studio,
> CodeWarrior, Xcode and KDevelop can do.  It can actually do a great
> deal more, and is readily customizable by writing elisp programs.
>
> Thus Emacs all by itself empowered all of us coders to accomplish a
> great deal more with less effort and in less time than we could have
> with the programmer's editors of the day, such as the original UNIX
> vi.  Today's Vim (VI iMproved) works just like the UNIX vi, but it can
> do a great dea

An idea: good for community implementation

[Linux Tyro]

Hi,

I have an idea as follows:

Fedora should celebrate every year its birth-day, like having a great party
and celebration of its success and an optional party for all to attend
(people attending with their own money of travel) and so it becomes more
like that of 'a great achievement', how this idea is?

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Re: An idea: good for community implementation

[Linux Tyro]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Michael Ekstrand wrote:

I think this already happens, except twice a year rather than once -
> every release. When a new Fedora version is released, there are parties
> around the world for Fedora users and developers to gather and
> celebrate. Not all in one place, but the distributed nature seems to be
> more consistent with how Fedora, and free/open source software in
> general, work. And I'm sure that if you happened to be halfway around
> the world and dropped in on a release party, people would be thrilled.
>
> For more on release parties, see the info in the wiki, including lists
> of past and upcoming release parties:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party
>

Ah, thanks, I really didn't know this, great. Cheers.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Greg Woods  wrote:

All this was just an answer to the question "why would anybody ever want
> to boot from /home". I don't claim this is the optimal setup.
>

Yes, it was just a question for information point of view, and now cleared
that /home is for the data storage purpose and separate so that newer
installation(s) / up-gradation(s) doesn't show any data loss - that's why.

However, people with their different intention(s) separate even /var, /tmp,
/boot with their personal choice. I cannot do that until I get my legs
weight a little!

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Greg Woods  wrote:

Yes, unfortunately, whether Linux suspend and/or hibernate will work
> well is a function of exactly what hardware you have. I think it's
> gotten a lot better, and it works on most anything I have tried it with,
> but as you point out, there are still some laptops where it just doesn't
> work.
>

Hibernation and Suspension of distro -- these options are a little typical
for me at least, I just either logout or Shut down.

Logout - The current user logs out of the session.
Restart - To restart the computer to get back the session.
Shutdown - The machine is off now.

IN the definitions of the above form (the above three) can simple tell me
the same about 'Hibernate' and 'Suspend', as simple as written above so
that the broader non technical community can understand?


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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Tim  wrote:


> With suspend and hibernate, the computer stores everything that it's
> currently doing (documents your reading/editing, pages you're browsing,
> etc), so that when you wake the computer up, you resume from where you
> left off.
>
> Hibernate stores it to hard drive, and the next bootup will read this
> and resume, automatically.
>
> Suspend does it to RAM.  So your computer needs (minimal) power
> continuously available to it, to keep what it's stuffed into memory.  If
> the memory is lost, then the next boot will be a cold boot.
>

But without intentionally deleting memory, how could it be lost except for
the case that power has gone and I am not using UPSCold boot simply
means that it doesn't need credentials to log-on?


> When it works, resuming from a suspend can be quicker.  Hence why the
> riskier option exists.
>
> Both are security hazards, though.  If you have an encrypted system, to
> protect you against what a thief could do with your data, being able to
> resume makes it easier for them to crack in.  Because resume will only
> ask you for a log on password, the cold boot decrypt password query was
> answered, by you, when you originally booted up.
>

But still how thief can log-in when I have encrypted password, password
necessary to boot in, disabled booting via CD-rom, disabled booting via
usb. Still chances are there that the thief can crack in ?

Some sort of hardware token, such as a key that must be inserted while
> booting, but is kept separate from the computer, is the simplest way to
> avoid that problem.
>

This I didn't understand how to achieve, but thanks for the above
explanation. Now, I know the difference between Hibernation and Suspension.
Would prefer it now.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:

> But without intentionally deleting memory, how could it be lost except
> for the case
> > that power has gone and I am not using UPSCold boot simply means
> that it doesn't
> > need credentials to log-on?
>
> cold boot means a normal boot from powered off state because if you lost
> power-supply
> while suspend to RAM is active your state IS powered off
>

Ah well.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Tim  wrote:

Tim:
> >> Suspend does it to RAM.  So your computer needs (minimal) power
> >> continuously available to it, to keep what it's stuffed into memory.
> >> If the memory is lost, then the next boot will be a cold boot.
>
> Linux Tyro:
> > But without intentionally deleting memory, how could it be lost except
> > for the case that power has gone and I am not using UPSCold boot
> > simply means that it doesn't need credentials to log-on?
>
> Your power fails, your laptop battery goes flat, your laptop goes into a
> power save mode that's inadequate for keeping the RAM contents intact...
>
> I've always wondered about the last one, since computers use dynamic
> RAM, these days, you can't just keep supplying power to the RAM, it
> needs constantly refreshing.
>
>
> > But still how thief can log-in when I have encrypted password,
> > password necessary to boot in, disabled booting via CD-rom, disabled
> > booting via usb. Still chances are there that the thief can crack in ?
>
> With a cold boot, a thief would have to break all your encryption before
> they could attempt to hack in.  They've got to get it to boot, before
> they can hack it.
>
> With a resume, the drive is already mounted to the system in an
> un-encrypted manner, just there's no currently logged in user.  That's
> the state that a hibernated/suspended machine will resume to (running,
> but keyboard/mouse locked out until you login).
>
> They've only got to manage to log in.  If you've left servers running,
> there may be one that's vulnerable to a hack.  If you've left a mail
> client running, it may be spewing your password straight out the network
> port, every few minutes.
>
> Of course, if you have a computer that auto-logs you in without you
> entering any password, or you have suspend/hibernate not lock access
> away during the suspend/hibernate process, a resume/boot-up will let
> anybody straight in unchallenged.
> >
> >> Some sort of hardware token, such as a key that must be inserted
> >> while booting, but is kept separate from the computer, is the
> >> simplest way to avoid that problem.
> >
> > This I didn't understand how to achieve, but thanks for the above
> > explanation.
>
> You're welcome, and I don't have a ready answer for how one might go
> about doing it.  But it's the kind of thing you'd have to do (making
> booting and resuming dependent on something that you kept separate from
> the laptop).


Ah, got the diea, thanks.

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offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

Hi,

can one let me know about the excellent offline docs to learn linux from
scratch?

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 3:48 AM, suvayu ali wrote:

Depending on what you want to learn:
>
> man 
> info  or pinfo 
>
> (lets say you want to learn about your shell and you use bash, then
> the  is bash)
>
> That said, man or info documentation pages can be sometimes very
> information dense and difficult to follow. It is often much better to
> follow dedicated tutorials on the Internet. So a better solution would
> be "  tutorial"
>
> If you want to learn more about how to administer/manage your machine,
> maybe read the release notes that comes with Fedora. You could also
> download the various guides released by the Fedora docs team in
> PDF/HTML form. 
>

Okay, I see, ty.

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 8:11 AM, g  wrote:

On 11/14/2011 09:48 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 09:30, Linux Tyro  wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> can one let me know about the excellent offline docs to learn linux from
> >> scratch?
> ---
>
> as mentioned, for fedora;
>
> > If you want to learn more about how to administer/manage your machine,
> > maybe read the release notes that comes with Fedora. You could also
> > download the various guides released by the Fedora docs team in
> > PDF/HTML form. <http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/index.html>
>
>
> in addition:
>
> linux from scratch;
>  http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
>  http://tldp.org/LDP/lfs/LFS-BOOK-6.1.1.pdf
>  http://tldp.org/LDP/lfs/LFS-BOOK-6.1.1-HTML/index.html
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_From_Scratch
>
> highly recommend;
>  Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition
>  http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
>  [download as pdf or html]
>
> fedora linux;
>  http://docs.fedoraproject.org/
>  http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/Installation_Guide/
>  http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/Installation_Guide/
>
> redhat linux;
>  http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/
>
> general linux;
>  http://www.comptechdoc.org/
>  http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/
>
> plus;
>  see my sig.
>
>
> if you need more, a google search of "linux from scratch" should give
> you over 1M00 hits.
>
> hth.
> --
>
> peace out.
>
> tc.hago,
>
> g
> .
>
> *please reply "plain text" only. "html text" are deleted*
>
> 
> in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
> **
> help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
> **
> to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
> to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
> **
> The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
> So I installed Linux.
> **
> learn linux:
> 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
> 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
> 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
> 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
>

I would just say "THANKS".

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:

> I would just say "THANKS".
>
> 10K of quoted text with one line at the bottom.  Please don't do that
> again.


;).., the meaning of that 'THANKS' is that: I would have to go through the
links and see and start learning linux from zeroth level...

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:

> Most of that 10K of text wasn't the links.

I agree.

> Quoting them, and only them would have been sufficient.

Sufficient for what...? Didn't get you...!

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM, g  wrote:

> learning linux is not a 3 or 4 day adventure. it takes time. and, you did
> ask for "from scratch".

> if you want an 'all in one' source, go with "Rute". it is very thorough and
> the html version is only a 1.5 meg gzip download. i can not comment on the
> 'pdf' size as i did not pull it because i find 'html' easier to use as i
> can make my own bookmarks for later referencing.

I see., it would take time to learn then.

> reason for posting other links;

>  to give you a link for "from scratch" site. the 'html' link was so that
>  you could 'skim' to see what you would be getting in 'pdf' download.

>  redhat and fedora, for specific distribution.

> for future help and assistance, i would suggest you set your gmail to
> send 'text/plain' emails. there are several knowledged subscribers who
> send 'text/html' directly to trash and never see such post.

Yes, that is good to use for future too! I also prefer html since it
is eary to navigate in...!

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:

> I was referring to the long quote ABOVE the links which had no reason being 
> in your reply.

Those were good links, I guess.

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:

> You were thanking somebody for sending you some links.  Quoting the
> links themselves was sufficient to give context; quoting the entire post
> was redundant.

Really sorry, but my way of saying thanks is that, however, it depends
on person to person. Your choice, is also good, no interference from
my side.

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Re: offline docs

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Ed Greshko  wrote:

> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

> Especially 3.1 and 3.17

> I don't see any problem in politely informing those "new members" and
> "new to Linux" of the standard practice of this list.

Definitely good thing, I appreciate.

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penta-booting hard-disk: who would administer the hard-disk office?

[Linux Tyro]

Hi,

As I have liked Linux (yes, I am windows convert), so with 2 GB RAM
and 250 GB hard-disk, I am now going to make hard-disk penta boot as
follows:-

Fedora - 20 GB - installing it,  - /root  (20 GB)
openSUSE - 10 GB installing with /root (10 GB)
Ubuntu - 10 GB installing with /root (10 GB)
Debian - 10 GB installing with /root (10 GB)
Mint - 10 GB installing with /root (10 GB)

/home - 190 GB (remaining space)

In this scenario,  I have just few doubts:

While suppose I first install Fedora, I have to use /root for 20 GB,
/home for 190 GB (which automatically becomes Logical partition...?)
or should I make both primary and logical other distros...?

Similarly proceeding with all distros, and allocating space from the
unallocated ones, okay but installed other distros would come in
Extended...(obviously...?)

After final installation, which distros would govern the booting menu?
Since some may have GRUB2 and others may have GRUB Legacy, so changing
one file might disturb the other or vice-versa? Or is it like that if
I have installed /root (Fedora) at first, so only /boot/grub/menu.lst
of Fedora would govern the hard-disk and the changes made in this file
would be done automatically with other installed distros too...Trying
this new geeky way of installation but I have no prior experience
since earlier I had installed only two distros - Fedora dual booted
with Windows, but now I am trying to remove Windows completely and
installed these distros Any suggestionswelcomeThanks.

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Re: penta-booting hard-disk: who would administer the hard-disk office?

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Ed Greshko  wrote:

> What is the purpose for doing all of this?  Is it just to play with each
> distro?  That is, not really work?  If that is the case, then maybe
> you'd be better off using one distro and then having VM's for the others.

Well the purpose is to know the things, it would however,be done on the holiday.

> I'm a bit surprised you're loading up OpenSuse.  You seemed to have just
> left the OpenSuse mailing list after having getting into a dust-up over
> the purpose of the mailing list.  Your last message on OpenSuse was
> "Goodbye OpenSuse".  Do you still plan to use it and just have given up
> on the OpenSuse community?

I am using mainly Fedora, openSUSE would be a second installation, it
is just trials. Goodbye 'openSUSE' doesn't mean that one cannot
reinstall it but yes, it is not the main installation, which is Fedora
and it is the one which could occupy the hard-disk in majority.

I am playing with all these on holidays since I heard some one saying,
'The more you do practice with your hands, the better you know abt the
stuff'.

Said that, I don't know which distributions' /boot/grub/menu.lst would
actually govern? Since editing one would have essentially changes in
the other too? I don't know but I am guessing to not go with LVM right
now, but only in the Extended partition.(I hope, a better
strategy).

Sharing /home would, I guess not a problem, since I would be giving
different user names in each distributions.

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Re: penta-booting hard-disk: who would administer the hard-disk office?

[Linux Tyro]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 3:33 AM, Ed Greshko  wrote:

> Where in India do you live?  Have you had any luck in finding a LUG near
> you as was suggested a while back?  I as that since you've said you are
> a "beginner", you have chosen a pseudonym to reflect that, and it just
> seemed that you'd benefit from that type of one-on-one environment.

I live in the Northern part of India. Well out of the job getting time
for LUG is typical still I would have to find the one to know the
geeky ways around the computers, that's of much enhanced curiosity.

> Years ago I ran an LUG internal to a company and it helped the new hires
> learn the ins and outs.

You do still ran that? How often you come to India or you have ever been to?

> Of course you can install openSuse.  I'm just surprised that, being a
> beginner, you'd install that distro when their community seemed a bit
> hostile when it came to, what they felt, were basic questions that could
> be easily answered by doing a bit of research.

Yeah, I could have Googled but that showed me terrific results and for
a newbie, it was painful so I got afraid in the beginning.

> Well, as a beginner, aren't you concerned that you'll be dividing up
> your time too much so that you'll not become proficient in one area and
> that you'll confuse the way things are done among the distros?

Good suggestion but as a beginner I just wanted to play with the
distros for which I am downloading the LIVE CDs too and yes you are
correct, I should stick with Fedora so that I can get the grip of one
that I am using, a better way, I agree.

> I'm sure others will be better at guiding you to a working configuration
> that you think you want.

Oh, okay.

> I still like using VM's for my "alternate" distros as it is easy to take
> snap shots as you muck around and you can have multiple distros up and
> running at the same time so you can compare things.  Also, when and if
> you get tired of a particular distro you just delete the VM's.  Makes
> redistribution of empty space a whole lot easier.

Okay VM, hmmm, but I guess we lose some functionality in VM, however,
this is just a newbie guess.Rather, if Live CD is there, why not
to play around a few and then see...?

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 6:27 AM, Ian Malone  wrote:

> I agree with this, it doesn't matter /too/ much which distribution
> Linux Tyro actually goes with if you want to get general experience in
> using Linux.

Yeah, going with both - Fedora and openSUSE.

> Having lots of different distributions installed you'll
> find that you:
> 1. End up doing lots of admin tasks on all of them. On this list we
> tend to deal with lots of Fedora issues (e.g. not liking Gnome3, use
> XFCE instead, problems with SELinux), but other distros will have
> their own problems. With five distros you could potentially end up
> doing five times as much of this annoying problem solving stuff. That
> might be exactly the experience you're looking for or it might get in
> the way of doing more interesting stuff. However...

That's just a holiday play to see the geeky way, if it works out or
not! However, I am sure that I would come back to the end with three
options - Scientific Linux (and that's why Fermi Lab, CERN are using
it!!), and Fedora and openSUSE

> 2. You'll probably end up using one over the others.

I agree this fact.

> I had to break into the windows install on my laptop last month because it 
> turned out
> I hadn't actually booted it into windows for two years and had
> forgotten the password.

:), Windows people don't prefer now a days, I guess so less
secured, without a doubt!

> Picking one and going with VMs for the others as Ed Greshko suggests
> is probably a good compromise,

But I know it is for sure a compromise only!

> unless you really want to investigate a
> good way of getting so many systems to boot together happily.

Yeah sure.

Thanks.
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