Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

Subject: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

Good day from Singapore,

I have just come across this article.

Article: Fedora's FESCo Rejects The Idea Of "-fno-omit-frame-pointer"
As Default Compiler Flag
Link: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-Rejects-No-Omit-FP

[QUOTE]

As a change proposal first initiated by Meta/Facebook developers, they
wanted -fno-omit-frame-pointer and -mno-omit-leaf-frame-pointer to be
added to the default C/C++ compilation flags.

...snipped...

Meta engineers believe that any performance cost is small and worth it
while SUSE engineers previously cited around possible 5~10%
regressions.

[/QUOTE]

From the above quotes, I thought that Meta/Facebook servers are using
Fedora Linux, or at least Linux servers.

Anyone can confirm?

Regards,

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore
Blogs:
https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com
https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com
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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 7:56 AM Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
 wrote:
>
> Subject: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?
>
> Good day from Singapore,
>
> I have just come across this article.
>
> Article: Fedora's FESCo Rejects The Idea Of "-fno-omit-frame-pointer"
> As Default Compiler Flag
> Link: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-Rejects-No-Omit-FP
>
> [QUOTE]
>
> As a change proposal first initiated by Meta/Facebook developers, they
> wanted -fno-omit-frame-pointer and -mno-omit-leaf-frame-pointer to be
> added to the default C/C++ compilation flags.
>
> ...snipped...
>
> Meta engineers believe that any performance cost is small and worth it
> while SUSE engineers previously cited around possible 5~10%
> regressions.
>
> [/QUOTE]
>
> From the above quotes, I thought that Meta/Facebook servers are using
> Fedora Linux, or at least Linux servers.
>
> Anyone can confirm?

I don't have first hand knowledge of Meta, but I have a fair amount of
enterprise experience. A large enterprise will have a large number of
technology stacks. It will look like the wild, wild west. They will
likely allow Fedora, in addition to other distros like Alpine, Debian,
the BSDs and Ubuntu. And they will also allow a heap of developmental
languages.

I often recommend Fedora Server anytime I see folks using RHEL or
CentOS. I don't understand why organizations run that antique software
that is no longer in development. Fedora provides modern software and
is in active development with continuous bug fixes.

The "in active development" part is important. Old versions of
software and kernels just accumulate more unfixed bugs over time. Most
developers don't spend time on old versions of software, so the known
bugs don't get fixed. Adversaries love that property of old software.
https://thenewstack.io/design-system-can-update-greg-kroah-hartman-linux-security/
.

I eat my own dog food. I run Fedora Servers at my house.

Jeff
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Heads-up: Google Chrome repo disabled on Fedora upgrade

[Chris Adams]

I upgraded several systems from Fedora 35 to 37 a few weeks ago.  I
realized yesterday that one (my primary desktop of course) was not
getting updates to Google Chrome, which has had some important security
fixes recently.  I realized that the Google Chrome yum repo had been
disabled - checking my backups, it was disabled when I did the upgrade
from 35 to 37.

I'm not sure why that happened (and why only on one system, out of at
least four with that repo enabled and Chrome installed), but others that
have done Fedora release upgrades (via dnf system-upgrade) and use
Chrome from the yum repo might want to check that it's still enabled (so
they're still getting security updates).
-- 
Chris Adams 
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Re: Heads-up: Google Chrome repo disabled on Fedora upgrade

[Roger Heflin]

I am looking on Fedora 36, and mine is still enabled, but there is a
google-chrome.repo.rpmnew file that has the initial setting of disabled, so
if that file replaced your prior file for some reason then it would be
disabled.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 8:03 AM Chris Adams  wrote:

> I upgraded several systems from Fedora 35 to 37 a few weeks ago.  I
> realized yesterday that one (my primary desktop of course) was not
> getting updates to Google Chrome, which has had some important security
> fixes recently.  I realized that the Google Chrome yum repo had been
> disabled - checking my backups, it was disabled when I did the upgrade
> from 35 to 37.
>
> I'm not sure why that happened (and why only on one system, out of at
> least four with that repo enabled and Chrome installed), but others that
> have done Fedora release upgrades (via dnf system-upgrade) and use
> Chrome from the yum repo might want to check that it's still enabled (so
> they're still getting security updates).
> --
> Chris Adams 
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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Roger Heflin]

If you aren't buying support from the OS distributor and/or the application
developer (and the app developer providing the support will only support
the enterprise releases) then it makes little sense to use the "enterprise"
variant.

If you have to stay up on patches then the enterprise OSes might have some
value if you were not committed to keeping fedora on a version still
getting updates.

If you aren't paying for support and/or you are providing all of the
support internally, then you might as well be on one of the Fedora like
leading edge distributions with all the new features.


On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 7:27 AM Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 7:56 AM Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
>  wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?
> >
> > Good day from Singapore,
> >
> > I have just come across this article.
> >
> > Article: Fedora's FESCo Rejects The Idea Of "-fno-omit-frame-pointer"
> > As Default Compiler Flag
> > Link: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-Rejects-No-Omit-FP
> >
> > [QUOTE]
> >
> > As a change proposal first initiated by Meta/Facebook developers, they
> > wanted -fno-omit-frame-pointer and -mno-omit-leaf-frame-pointer to be
> > added to the default C/C++ compilation flags.
> >
> > ...snipped...
> >
> > Meta engineers believe that any performance cost is small and worth it
> > while SUSE engineers previously cited around possible 5~10%
> > regressions.
> >
> > [/QUOTE]
> >
> > From the above quotes, I thought that Meta/Facebook servers are using
> > Fedora Linux, or at least Linux servers.
> >
> > Anyone can confirm?
>
> I don't have first hand knowledge of Meta, but I have a fair amount of
> enterprise experience. A large enterprise will have a large number of
> technology stacks. It will look like the wild, wild west. They will
> likely allow Fedora, in addition to other distros like Alpine, Debian,
> the BSDs and Ubuntu. And they will also allow a heap of developmental
> languages.
>
> I often recommend Fedora Server anytime I see folks using RHEL or
> CentOS. I don't understand why organizations run that antique software
> that is no longer in development. Fedora provides modern software and
> is in active development with continuous bug fixes.
>
> The "in active development" part is important. Old versions of
> software and kernels just accumulate more unfixed bugs over time. Most
> developers don't spend time on old versions of software, so the known
> bugs don't get fixed. Adversaries love that property of old software.
>
> https://thenewstack.io/design-system-can-update-greg-kroah-hartman-linux-security/
> .
>
> I eat my own dog food. I run Fedora Servers at my house.
>
> Jeff
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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Gordon Messmer]

On 2022-12-06 04:55, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

 From the above quotes, I thought that Meta/Facebook servers are using
Fedora Linux, or at least Linux servers.



As far as I know, the answer is "No".  Their production platform is 
based on CentOS Stream.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA_Nd3crBuA

The presentation as a whole is worth watching for a view of practices in 
a large production environment.  The migration to Stream is mentioned 
around 23:30.


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Re: Heads-up: Google Chrome repo disabled on Fedora upgrade

[Dorian ROSSE]

Hello everybody,


For wear the navigators fornulately I am use npm (this is the packager 
JavaScript) thus read the shell npm for upgrade npm too for update or remove a 
version of program use this (because the shell npm show the package deprecated 
and some advice):
npm install (or remove) -g thenameoftheprogram@theversionoftheprogram

I believe you understand some of begun are to install chrome for example with 
this:
npm install chrome

I hope help the community with those examples,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: Roger Heflin 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 4:43:16 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: Heads-up: Google Chrome repo disabled on Fedora upgrade

I am looking on Fedora 36, and mine is still enabled, but there is a  
google-chrome.repo.rpmnew file that has the initial setting of disabled, so if 
that file replaced your prior file for some reason then it would be disabled.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 8:03 AM Chris Adams 
mailto:li...@cmadams.net>> wrote:
I upgraded several systems from Fedora 35 to 37 a few weeks ago.  I
realized yesterday that one (my primary desktop of course) was not
getting updates to Google Chrome, which has had some important security
fixes recently.  I realized that the Google Chrome yum repo had been
disabled - checking my backups, it was disabled when I did the upgrade
from 35 to 37.

I'm not sure why that happened (and why only on one system, out of at
least four with that repo enabled and Chrome installed), but others that
have done Fedora release upgrades (via dnf system-upgrade) and use
Chrome from the yum repo might want to check that it's still enabled (so
they're still getting security updates).
--
Chris Adams mailto:li...@cmadams.net>>
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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Barry Scott]

> On 6 Dec 2022, at 12:55, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming 
>  wrote:
> 
> Meta engineers believe that any performance cost is small and worth it
> while SUSE engineers previously cited around possible 5~10%
> regressions.

meta engineers do a lot of performance work and their experience is what is 
being referred to.
Indeed along with the SUSE engineers experience.

As someone else said they are not using Fedora.

Barry

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Re: Youtube Videos Don't Play in Fedora

[Stephen Morris]

On 6/12/22 11:02, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 12/5/22 14:19, Stephen Morris wrote:
I tried replacing pipewire with pulseaudio by issuing "sudo dnf swap 
pipewire pulseaudio" but that failed because package "mutter" 
requires pipewire, I have no idea what that is, and mutter can't be 
uninstalled because it wants to uninstall "gnome-shell" which is not 
allowed.


"mutter" is basically the rendering engine for "gnome-shell" which 
explains the dependencies.  pulseaudio is deprecated now, pipewire is 
what should be used going forward.
Pipewire doesn't work. It was videos not playing without audio muted 
that started this thread. And from what I've seen on the net there is 
potentially a lot of manual configuration required to get pipewire to 
work, so my view on what I'm seeing is pipewire is not exactly stable.
I also can't remove pulseaudio because pulseaudio-module-bluetooth want 
to remove Gnome-shell.


regards,
Steve


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Re: Heads-up: Google Chrome repo disabled on Fedora upgrade

[Stephen Morris]

On 7/12/22 01:02, Chris Adams wrote:

I upgraded several systems from Fedora 35 to 37 a few weeks ago.  I
realized yesterday that one (my primary desktop of course) was not
getting updates to Google Chrome, which has had some important security
fixes recently.  I realized that the Google Chrome yum repo had been
disabled - checking my backups, it was disabled when I did the upgrade
from 35 to 37.

I'm not sure why that happened (and why only on one system, out of at
least four with that repo enabled and Chrome installed), but others that
have done Fedora release upgrades (via dnf system-upgrade) and use
Chrome from the yum repo might want to check that it's still enabled (so
they're still getting security updates).
Hi Chris, I could be wrong on this but I seem to recall from upgrades of 
previous fedora distributions that this was normal. I don't know about 
upgrading to F37 as I installed that from scratch.


regards,
Steve

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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Jonathan Billings]

On Dec 6, 2022, at 08:27, Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
> I often recommend Fedora Server anytime I see folks using RHEL or
> CentOS. I don't understand why organizations run that antique software
> that is no longer in development. Fedora provides modern software and
> is in active development with continuous bug fixes.

> The "in active development" part is important. Old versions of
> software and kernels just accumulate more unfixed bugs over time. Most
> developers don't spend time on old versions of software, so the known
> bugs don't get fixed. Adversaries love that property of old software.

That a pretty ignorant view of RHEL/CentOS. 

Red Hat backports known bug fixes to the software in RHEL. It also has modules 
that are updated at a faster cadence, too. 

I realize this is a Fedora list, but this kind of misinformation doesn’t really 
help Fedora. Many companies aren’t really interested in significant 
rearchitecting core parts of the service because of Fedora’s rapid pace. Just 
because it is the newest version doesn’t mean it has a backwards compatible 
API. New software also has new bugs, and less testing. 

I do agree that Fedora Server is a powerful platform, and I use it myself. But 
I’d have a hard time arguing it makes sense for customers running enterprise 
services with project lifetimes extending for several years. Making them use 
Fedora would often result in companies running EOL versions, leaving a platform 
with even more security holes.

Both Fedora and RHEL/CentOS have their place. 

--
Jonathan Billings
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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 7:04 PM Jonathan Billings  wrote:
>
> On Dec 6, 2022, at 08:27, Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
> > I often recommend Fedora Server anytime I see folks using RHEL or
> > CentOS. I don't understand why organizations run that antique software
> > that is no longer in development. Fedora provides modern software and
> > is in active development with continuous bug fixes.
>
> > The "in active development" part is important. Old versions of
> > software and kernels just accumulate more unfixed bugs over time. Most
> > developers don't spend time on old versions of software, so the known
> > bugs don't get fixed. Adversaries love that property of old software.
>
> That a pretty ignorant view of RHEL/CentOS.

I don't believe it's as ignorant as you think. Unfortunately, it's the
reality of the situation.

> Red Hat backports known bug fixes to the software in RHEL. It also has 
> modules that are updated at a faster cadence, too.

The keyword is "known". Developers don't work on 5 or 10 year old
software. Existing bugs don't get uncovered and fixed. They don't
become "known", so they don't get backported and fixed.

That's exactly the point Greg HK makes at
https://thenewstack.io/design-system-can-update-greg-kroah-hartman-linux-security/
. No one is working on old kernels. Problems in old kernels are going
to remain latent and unfixed. Kernel developers and Red Hat may
backport an occasional fix, but they are not fixing all the problems.

The same thing happens in userland. I help maintain several projects,
and contribute to many others. None of those projects concern
themselves with 5 or 10 year old software. The problems in old
software remain unfixed.

The way to avoid the problems is to use something that's being
actively developed. That's what Greg HK is telling us. Fedora makes it
especially easy to use software that is being actively developed
because Fedora usually packages the current release of whatever is
going into the package.

And dnf-system-upgrade every 6 months is a small price to pay for
Fedora (https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/dnf-system-upgrade/).
You get Red Hat processes and stability with modern software. Its a
win-win.

Jeff
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libnvidvia

[Bill Cunningham]

    I have the hand brake cli installed in my f37 distro environment. 
It complains it wants libnvidia-encoder.so1 library or such. I have 
tried dnf provides and I get nothing from the standard fedora 37 repo as 
well as rpmfusion's free repo. This must be required in creating a mv4 
from an ISO from a DVD created using genisoimage. Does anyone know an 
answer to this?  I am not finding this shared library. Trying to create 
using,


HandBrakeCLI -i iso.iso -o iso.m4v ,

gives errors but there's no breaking. The CLI reports 10% done but 
doesn't advance any farther than that.


B
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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Jonathan Billings]

On Dec 6, 2022, at 19:32, Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
> 
> And dnf-system-upgrade every 6 months is a small price to pay for
> Fedora (https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/dnf-system-upgrade/).
> You get Red Hat processes and stability with modern software. Its a
> win-win.

I suppose it’s a win if you’re the one being paid to fix broken systems. :/

I am fine with your suggestion for the modern containerized platforms or cloud 
service, using agile methodology, and constantly spinning out new versions. 
Release early and release often. Not everyone has that workflow. 

It all boils down to risk assessment. 

Greg K-H has a good point and what he describes is one of the risks with using 
enterprise Linux. The kernel in RHEL doesn’t get all fixes in the upstream. On 
one hand, one of those bug fixes might end up being a security hole down the 
road. But on the other hand, that is a risk that Red Hat takes and is 
responsible to fix. This is why you pay for RHEL. 

In your model, every bug, breaking api change and orphaned package is your 
problem and it’s up to you to fix whatever code you use to run your service.

Some companies would rather pay another company to take that risk than shoulder 
it themselves. 

I’m glad that Fedora is the basis of future RHEL. I will be able to tell what 
will work and will not in new releases. I’ll get valuable experience in the new 
software and maybe even get a hand in guiding the path to future releases. I 
will have the same basic OS on my laptop as what I’m running in production. I 
am also happy to know that people use Fedora Server in production as an 
alternative to other distros.

I just don’t agree with your assessment that enterprise Linux has no value. Not 
everyone has the headcount or technical ability to use Fedora for their 
infrastructure. And I think it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.  

--
Jonathan Billings
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Re: Youtube Videos Don't Play in Fedora

[Tim via users]

On Wed, 2022-12-07 at 09:03 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
> Pipewire doesn't work. It was videos not playing without audio muted 
> that started this thread. And from what I've seen on the net there is 
> potentially a lot of manual configuration required to get pipewire to 
> work, so my view on what I'm seeing is pipewire is not exactly stable.
> I also can't remove pulseaudio because pulseaudio-module-bluetooth want 
> to remove Gnome-shell.

It does on my Fedora 36 installation, without me doing anything.  I did
a default fresh install, and this's what it installed, I didn't do any
customisation of audio:  It has pipepire and wireplumber, there's no
pulseaudio.  I haven't tried swapping or having two conflicting things
together.  I'm yet to try Fedora 37.  I do have an issue where the
volume control applet (MATE) keeps crashing, but it reloads and audio
is still playing before, during, and after.  The crashing is a recent
thing, in the last few weeks.  I hadn't had it before then.

So I'm inclined to say it does "work," but there's some aspect of it
that's a problem with your system.  Possibly because you did an upgrade
install you've inherited a conflict.  I stopped doing them years ago
because of that kind of thing (amongst other upgrade problems - like it
taking an age to work out what packages to install, me spending ages
managing choice conflicts, very slow installs, lots of config
debugging, etc).

I've noted throughout your thread that you also have problems with
pulseaudio, and getting youtube videos to even start playing (here,
they'll play even without any audio hardware enabled).  So, it sounds
like you have quite a few conflicts.

Do you have a spare hard drive that you can try a fresh install to,
with your usual drive unplugged?  Or can you try running a live disc?
 
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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Tim via users]

On Tue, 2022-12-06 at 19:30 -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> The keyword is "known". Developers don't work on 5 or 10 year old
> software. Existing bugs don't get uncovered and fixed. They don't
> become "known", so they don't get backported and fixed.
> 
> That's exactly the point Greg HK makes at
> https://thenewstack.io/design-system-can-update-greg-kroah-hartman-linux-security/
> . No one is working on old kernels. Problems in old kernels are going
> to remain latent and unfixed. Kernel developers and Red Hat may
> backport an occasional fix, but they are not fixing all the problems.

Odd.  On my CentOS 7 system, my last kernel update was mid-November,
the prior the month before, another a month before that, another a
month before that.  Hardly not being worked on.  The kernel is an on-
going thing, and various distros backport what they can.

And we do have applications with long history, LibreOffice being just
one that springs to mind.  Though some people might argue some projects
never fix bugs, as many bug reports go back many years with no
resolutions, it's full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes.

> The same thing happens in userland. I help maintain several projects,
> and contribute to many others. None of those projects concern
> themselves with 5 or 10 year old software. The problems in old
> software remain unfixed.

My experience with programmers is that they don't like having the rug
pulled out from under them mid-development.  There are many programs
that spend years in development (pre- and post-release).  That's harder
to do when you have to keep re-learning the quirks of systems.

Likewise with sysadmins.  Many features upgrades are entirely unwanted,
bug fixes is all they're interested in.

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Re: Youtube Videos Don't Play in Fedora

[Samuel Sieb]

On 12/6/22 14:03, Stephen Morris wrote:

On 6/12/22 11:02, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 12/5/22 14:19, Stephen Morris wrote:
I tried replacing pipewire with pulseaudio by issuing "sudo dnf swap 
pipewire pulseaudio" but that failed because package "mutter" 
requires pipewire, I have no idea what that is, and mutter can't be 
uninstalled because it wants to uninstall "gnome-shell" which is not 
allowed.


"mutter" is basically the rendering engine for "gnome-shell" which 
explains the dependencies.  pulseaudio is deprecated now, pipewire is 
what should be used going forward.
Pipewire doesn't work. It was videos not playing without audio muted 
that started this thread. And from what I've seen on the net there is 
potentially a lot of manual configuration required to get pipewire to 
work, so my view on what I'm seeing is pipewire is not exactly stable.


Clearly pipewire *is* working for the vast majority of people with no 
configuration required.  I didn't even notice the transition.  If you 
look online, you are most likely going to find the people that are 
having trouble because all the ones that are working have no reason to 
post.  And often the reason it's not working is because of messing with 
the configs.


I also can't remove pulseaudio because pulseaudio-module-bluetooth want 
to remove Gnome-shell.


Considering that I have gnome-shell installed without that package, it's 
not actually required.  You need to look at the dependency messages to 
see what's causing the problem.

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Re: Are Meta/Facebook servers using Fedora Linux?

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 11:46 PM Tim  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2022-12-06 at 19:30 -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > The keyword is "known". Developers don't work on 5 or 10 year old
> > software. Existing bugs don't get uncovered and fixed. They don't
> > become "known", so they don't get backported and fixed.
> >
> > That's exactly the point Greg HK makes at
> > https://thenewstack.io/design-system-can-update-greg-kroah-hartman-linux-security/
> > . No one is working on old kernels. Problems in old kernels are going
> > to remain latent and unfixed. Kernel developers and Red Hat may
> > backport an occasional fix, but they are not fixing all the problems.
>
> Odd.  On my CentOS 7 system, my last kernel update was mid-November,
> the prior the month before, another a month before that, another a
> month before that.  Hardly not being worked on.  The kernel is an on-
> going thing, and various distros backport what they can.

You are not getting all the fixes. From Greg's talk:

Kroah-Hartman gave a good example of how a benign looking
bug can turn into something nasty. Some three years ago a
TTY1 layer bug was fixed. Back then it looked like a
normal, harmless bug. The kernel community fixed it, pushed
it in the new release and was done with it. Three years
later someone was found it to be a security bug. Now
companies freaked out. They didn’t bother to use the
patches back then, and now even companies like SUSE and Red
Hat had to go back and fix all their old stuff.

Here's one I have first hand knowledge of from 2021. It should have
gotten a CVE, but Mitre's website would not accept my report/request:
https://github.com/weidai11/cryptopp/issues/1072 . Here's another one
from 2018: https://github.com/weidai11/cryptopp/issues/602 .

I'm fairly certain an attacker can exploit both of those. Neither got
CVEs (though I tried). Neither was backported to earlier versions of
the library.

I've seen other projects do the same with memory errors. Some don't
even bother trying to get a CVE because they consider it a security
theatre. These bugs are more instances of the Greg's TTY1 layer bug.
No one thinks it is important. Companies like Red Hat and SUSE will
never know to pick-up the change because there's no signalling to
them.

> ...
> > The same thing happens in userland. I help maintain several projects,
> > and contribute to many others. None of those projects concern
> > themselves with 5 or 10 year old software. The problems in old
> > software remain unfixed.
>
> My experience with programmers is that they don't like having the rug
> pulled out from under them mid-development.  There are many programs
> that spend years in development (pre- and post-release).  That's harder
> to do when you have to keep re-learning the quirks of systems.

No one likes revisiting old code. It's just something you have to do,
like going to the dentist.

> Likewise with sysadmins.  Many features upgrades are entirely unwanted,
> bug fixes is all they're interested in.

Ideally, you stay lock-step with technology you depend on, and the
break/fix cycle is small as you keep pace with things. But put it off
for several years, and you'll find you boxed yourself into a bad
place. You will find you are carrying a lot of technological debt, and
you are accepting a lot of risk.

And the worst thing about it (to me) is: a company puts off the
maintenance to keep profits up and shareholders happy. But they screw
me, you, our families and friends when the data breach comes. And to
add insult to injury, then they issue those repulsive statements like,
"it was an advanced persistent threat" or "we care deeply about
security." Hogwash. They made their choices, and it was to trade
security and our online safety for profits.

Jeff
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