Re: opinions: backups

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2022-08-14 at 21:04 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 7:29 PM Cameron Simpson 
> wrote:
> 
> > On 14Aug2022 15:22, Emmett Culley 
> > wrote:
> > > I've been using BackupPC for many years.  It can use rsync via
> > > ssh for
> > > remote backups or rsync directly for local (LAN) backup.  It can
> > > automatically dedup as well.
> > 
> > We had a client using BackupPC. Maybe for a single PC it works
> > well.
> > They were backing up several (well over 10) PCs to a NAS. It
> > hammered
> > the system in both I/O and CPU. Combined with some (old kernel)
> > filesystem bugs, it would mangle the filesystem. It seems to do the
> > rsync protocol _in Perl_ at the BackupPC end, and uses an elaborate
> > hash-named file tree for the deduplication function. It needed a
> > special
> > web interface to browse/restore.
> > 
> > It kind of works, but does not scale.
> > 
> 
> Looks like you haven't taken a look in a while.  BackupPC 3.x used a
> perl
> version of rsync to add the extra stuff it needed to work, but
> BackupPC 4.x
> (which has been released for a few years now) forked rsync to provide
> the
> magic. It also now uses sqlite instead of hard links to manage
> deduplication.
> 
> I only backup about 6 computers but it's for a home environment. I've
> currently got 6.36TB backed up only consuming 675GB of space.

Just for comparison, using Borg my backup info shows:

Original size  Compressed sizeDeduplicated size
  2.91 TB  2.23 TB121.89 GB

(i.e. the actual disk usage is 121.89GB)

That currently holds 22 backup sets (monthly, weekly and daily) going
back a couple of years.

poc
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Re: opinions: backups

[Neal Becker]

I use borg and am very happy with it.  As Chris, I only backup /home,
everything else is replaceable.  Oh, I occasionally make a backup of /etc
also.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 6:05 AM Patrick O'Callaghan 
wrote:

> On Sun, 2022-08-14 at 21:04 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 7:29 PM Cameron Simpson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 14Aug2022 15:22, Emmett Culley 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I've been using BackupPC for many years.  It can use rsync via
> > > > ssh for
> > > > remote backups or rsync directly for local (LAN) backup.  It can
> > > > automatically dedup as well.
> > >
> > > We had a client using BackupPC. Maybe for a single PC it works
> > > well.
> > > They were backing up several (well over 10) PCs to a NAS. It
> > > hammered
> > > the system in both I/O and CPU. Combined with some (old kernel)
> > > filesystem bugs, it would mangle the filesystem. It seems to do the
> > > rsync protocol _in Perl_ at the BackupPC end, and uses an elaborate
> > > hash-named file tree for the deduplication function. It needed a
> > > special
> > > web interface to browse/restore.
> > >
> > > It kind of works, but does not scale.
> > >
> >
> > Looks like you haven't taken a look in a while.  BackupPC 3.x used a
> > perl
> > version of rsync to add the extra stuff it needed to work, but
> > BackupPC 4.x
> > (which has been released for a few years now) forked rsync to provide
> > the
> > magic. It also now uses sqlite instead of hard links to manage
> > deduplication.
> >
> > I only backup about 6 computers but it's for a home environment. I've
> > currently got 6.36TB backed up only consuming 675GB of space.
>
> Just for comparison, using Borg my backup info shows:
>
> Original size  Compressed sizeDeduplicated size
>   2.91 TB  2.23 TB121.89 GB
>
> (i.e. the actual disk usage is 121.89GB)
>
> That currently holds 22 backup sets (monthly, weekly and daily) going
> back a couple of years.
>
> poc
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-- 
*Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it*
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Re: opinions: backups

[Barry Scott]

> On 16 Aug 2022, at 19:27, Neal Becker  wrote:
> 
> I use borg and am very happy with it.  As Chris, I only backup /home, 
> everything else is replaceable.  Oh, I occasionally make a backup of /etc 
> also.

I back /home and /etc because if I missed a config change then I need /etc to 
rebuild.
As pointed out a list of installed packages is use full to backup as well.
I put that info in a file in /etc.

(I keep all config in a svn repo - so should not need the /etc backup. But 
sometimes
I miss an edit that matters and the /etc backup is noise compared to /home).

Some times I have critical app data in /var and back that up as needed.

Barry



> 
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 6:05 AM Patrick O'Callaghan  > wrote:
> On Sun, 2022-08-14 at 21:04 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 7:29 PM Cameron Simpson  > >
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > On 14Aug2022 15:22, Emmett Culley  > > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I've been using BackupPC for many years.  It can use rsync via
> > > > ssh for
> > > > remote backups or rsync directly for local (LAN) backup.  It can
> > > > automatically dedup as well.
> > > 
> > > We had a client using BackupPC. Maybe for a single PC it works
> > > well.
> > > They were backing up several (well over 10) PCs to a NAS. It
> > > hammered
> > > the system in both I/O and CPU. Combined with some (old kernel)
> > > filesystem bugs, it would mangle the filesystem. It seems to do the
> > > rsync protocol _in Perl_ at the BackupPC end, and uses an elaborate
> > > hash-named file tree for the deduplication function. It needed a
> > > special
> > > web interface to browse/restore.
> > > 
> > > It kind of works, but does not scale.
> > > 
> > 
> > Looks like you haven't taken a look in a while.  BackupPC 3.x used a
> > perl
> > version of rsync to add the extra stuff it needed to work, but
> > BackupPC 4.x
> > (which has been released for a few years now) forked rsync to provide
> > the
> > magic. It also now uses sqlite instead of hard links to manage
> > deduplication.
> > 
> > I only backup about 6 computers but it's for a home environment. I've
> > currently got 6.36TB backed up only consuming 675GB of space.
> 
> Just for comparison, using Borg my backup info shows:
> 
> Original size  Compressed sizeDeduplicated size
>   2.91 TB  2.23 TB121.89 GB
> 
> (i.e. the actual disk usage is 121.89GB)
> 
> That currently holds 22 backup sets (monthly, weekly and daily) going
> back a couple of years.
> 
> poc
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it
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Re: unremovable gnome packages

[Adrian Sevcenco]

On 8/14/22 00:19, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 8/13/22 11:42, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:

On 8/10/22 16:20, Roger Heflin wrote:

dnf --noautoremove group remove gnome-desktop

If you have a group installed (gnome-desktop) it appears to add
the protection to prevent that group from being removed, so the
entire group has to go.
Thanks a lot for info! Unfortunately it does not work: 
[root@c340-sev ~]# dnf --noautoremove group remove gnome-desktop 
Error: Problem: The operation would result in removing the

following protected packages: gnome-shell (try to add
'--skip-broken' to skip uninstallable packages)

Why in the world would be gnome-shell unremovable? And does anyone
have an idea where is the list of packages deemded unremovable?


I assume this was a workstation install.  You need to replace the
"fedora-release-identity-workstation" package with a different
identity.


Thanks a lot for info!! I was not aware of this kind of packages
and their content!!

The problem was solved by installing (--allowerasing) the kde identity

Thanks a lot!
Adrian
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Re: unremovable gnome packages

[Samuel Sieb]

On 8/16/22 14:48, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:

On 8/14/22 00:19, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 8/13/22 11:42, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:

On 8/10/22 16:20, Roger Heflin wrote:

dnf --noautoremove group remove gnome-desktop

If you have a group installed (gnome-desktop) it appears to add
the protection to prevent that group from being removed, so the
entire group has to go.
Thanks a lot for info! Unfortunately it does not work: [root@c340-sev 
~]# dnf --noautoremove group remove gnome-desktop Error: Problem: The 
operation would result in removing the

following protected packages: gnome-shell (try to add
'--skip-broken' to skip uninstallable packages)

Why in the world would be gnome-shell unremovable? And does anyone
have an idea where is the list of packages deemded unremovable?


I assume this was a workstation install.  You need to replace the
"fedora-release-identity-workstation" package with a different
identity.


Thanks a lot for info!! I was not aware of this kind of packages
and their content!!

The problem was solved by installing (--allowerasing) the kde identity


You could also do that with:
dnf swap fedora-release-identity-workstation fedora-release-identity-kde
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Re: opinions: backups

[Bill Cunningham]

On 8/16/2022 5:24 PM, Barry Scott wrote:




On 16 Aug 2022, at 19:27, Neal Becker  wrote:

I use borg and am very happy with it.  As Chris, I only backup /home, 
everything else is replaceable.  Oh, I occasionally make a backup of 
/etc also.


I back /home and /etc because if I missed a config change then I need 
/etc to rebuild.

As pointed out a list of installed packages is use full to backup as well.
I put that info in a file in /etc.

That's a good idea. I truthfully don't use users because no one but me 
uses my machine. I know everyone says use a normal user and just sudo 
into root. But all I access is in root anyway, so I just login. I too 
just backup what I want at this point. Is it safe btw to erase all the 
invisible files in the /home root directory? Bash scripts and all? I 
erase a few root scripts that applications make and send to /~ but I am 
very careful.


   Does anyone still use clonzilla or partimage? They are a bit aged.

(I keep all config in a svn repo - so should not need the /etc backup. 
But sometimes
I miss an edit that matters and the /etc backup is noise compared to 
/home).


Some times I have critical app data in /var and back that up as needed.

Barry


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Re: opinions: backups

[Richard Shaw]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 5:23 PM Bill Cunningham 
wrote:

> On 8/16/2022 5:24 PM, Barry Scott wrote:
>
> On 16 Aug 2022, at 19:27, Neal Becker  wrote:
>
> I use borg and am very happy with it.  As Chris, I only backup /home,
> everything else is replaceable.  Oh, I occasionally make a backup of /etc
> also.
>
>
> I back /home and /etc because if I missed a config change then I need /etc
> to rebuild.
> As pointed out a list of installed packages is use full to backup as well.
> I put that info in a file in /etc.
>
> That's a good idea. I truthfully don't use users because no one but me
> uses my machine. I know everyone says use a normal user and just sudo into
> root. But all I access is in root anyway, so I just login. I too just
> backup what I want at this point. Is it safe btw to erase all the invisible
> files in the /home root directory? Bash scripts and all? I erase a few root
> scripts that applications make and send to /~ but I am very careful.
>
>Does anyone still use clonzilla or partimage? They are a bit aged.
>

I wouldn't use them for general backup purposes but clonezilla is still a
good choice when upgrading a drive.  I might consider using one of them to
back up a whole system when it's a utility or micro server, but backing up
a whole desktop system seems like a waste of disk space unless you just
have money to burn.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: unremovable gnome packages

[mxanthropocene]

Hi, you need to swap the release identity package. That determines what
desktop packages are protected by dnf.

Type dnf search fedora-release-identity- to see what's available. Then
run

sudo dnf swap fedora-release-identity-workstation fedora-release-
identity-(kde, cinnamon, mate-compiz, xfce, other package that's
appropriate for what you intend to be running) 

Hope this helps!

On Wed, 2022-08-10 at 13:58 +0200, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:
> Hi! I was trying to remove the gnome packages and because of gnome-
> shell
> i'm stuck with this list:
> gnome-autoar-0.4.3-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-bluetooth-42.2-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-bluetooth-libs-42.2-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-control-center-42.3-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-control-center-filesystem-42.3-1.fc36.noarch
> gnome-desktop3-42.3-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-desktop4-42.3-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-keyring-42.1-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-keyring-pam-42.1-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-online-accounts-3.44.0-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-session-42.0-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-session-wayland-session-42.0-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-settings-daemon-42.2-1.fc36.x86_64
> gnome-shell-42.3.1-1.fc36.x86_64
> 
> So, why is gnome-shell not-removable??? is it not a desktop
> application??
> Is there a way to solve this __nicely__ ?
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> Adrian
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Re: puzzling message/suggestion during weekly patches. [SOLVED]

[Jonathan Billings]

On Aug 15, 2022, at 12:56, home user  wrote:
> 
> definition of "cruft", " crud", "junk", etc..
> years-old whatever no longer being used,
> collecting dust,
> taking up space,
> getting in the way,
> until finally being trashed.
> Then, 6 days later, you need it and wish you still had it!

It’s not just the files that can be old. It could be the filesystems and other 
infrastructure. 

For example, I had a rather old installation that I had been upgrading for many 
years, and it used LVM. Every time I booted it complained that it was using 
older, unsupported LVM metadata (although it still worked). 

I wanted to switch to btrfs so it was a good excuse to reinstall from scratch. 

I had long since switched to postfix anyway. I had /etc in etckeeper git and it 
was trivial to clone before reinstall. 

--
Jonathan Billings
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