Re: USB flakes out?

[Tom Horsley]

Everyone seems to have ignored the important bits of info
in my original post: This only started happening when I
installed fedora 31, and it started happening on two separate
systems the same way :-).

The mice worked for years with no problems before f31.
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Re: USB flakes out?

[sixpack13]

On 19.11.19 13:59, Tom Horsley wrote:

Everyone seems to have ignored the important bits of info
in my original post: This only started happening when I
installed fedora 31, and it started happening on two separate
systems the same way :-).

The mice worked for years with no problems before f31.
___



Yup, I did !
I'm somewhat hot trying to fix *your* problems.
Should I fix that too ?

;-)

and what an lie:
nobody could fetch that your USB was running on F30 !

Please be honest!
you simply didn't notice it on F30, now F31 is to blame.

damn, damn F31...

I guess it has something to do with the *Expert* Mouse, it needs to be 
"Advanced Expert" for F31 !


:-)
--
sixpack13
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Re: USB flakes out?

[Ed Greshko]

On 11/19/19 8:59 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> Everyone seems to have ignored the important bits of info
> in my original post: This only started happening when I
> installed fedora 31, and it started happening on two separate
> systems the same way :-).
>
> The mice worked for years with no problems before f31.

I do not see any problems here.  3 systems have Kensington Expert Wireless TB 
Mouse and
utilize the Logitech Unifying Device for connectivity.  So, no wires.  Other 
systems use BT mice.

If I do unplug/plug the UD the mouse reconnects and indicates

new full-speed USB device number 6 using ehci-pci

I wonder why yours shows as low-speed USB device.  Just curious.

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Re: USB flakes out?

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:56:05 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:

> I wonder why yours shows as low-speed USB device.  Just curious.

Because it is plugged into a usb2 port to leave usb3 port free
for stuff that needs them. These are both wired mice, not wireless.

I was wondering if maybe older kernels used to reconnect
silently so no one noticed the port problem. That would explain
why I never saw it before (because it is hard to miss when
my button reprogramming disappears and drag lock stops working :-).
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Fedora 30->31 Client ID changed

[Richard Shaw]

I was wondering after I upgraded why I couldn't ssh into my workstation. I
thought maybe sshd got disabled or firewall changes.

Turns out that my "Client ID" changed after the upgrade and I got a
different IP address from my Mikrotik router.

It was VERY long, something like 23 hex numbers but after the
upgrade changed to the MAC address with a 1: on the front.

Anyone know why that would have happened?

The other Fedora 30 installs I have are of the "long" variety and I assume
I'll have to fix each one in my DHCP server after upgrading.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: Fedora 30->31 Client ID changed

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:18:37 -0600
Richard Shaw wrote:

> It was VERY long, something like 23 hex numbers but after the
> upgrade changed to the MAC address with a 1: on the front.

Does this machine have a bridge defined? Before fedora 31 the
bridge used to get the same MAC address as the physical
ethernet device connected to it. Now it gets a brand new
made up MAC. You can fix it by adding MACADDR="same mac as
actual NIC" to the ifcfg-bridge file.
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Re: Fedora 30->31 Client ID changed

[Richard Shaw]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 8:25 AM Tom Horsley  wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:18:37 -0600
> Richard Shaw wrote:
>
> > It was VERY long, something like 23 hex numbers but after the
> > upgrade changed to the MAC address with a 1: on the front.
>
> Does this machine have a bridge defined? Before fedora 31 the
> bridge used to get the same MAC address as the physical
> ethernet device connected to it. Now it gets a brand new
> made up MAC. You can fix it by adding MACADDR="same mac as
> actual NIC" to the ifcfg-bridge file.
>

No, it's bone stock as far as networking is concerned...

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: USB flakes out?

[Ed Greshko]

On 11/19/19 10:05 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:56:05 +0800
> Ed Greshko wrote:
>
>> I wonder why yours shows as low-speed USB device.  Just curious.
> Because it is plugged into a usb2 port to leave usb3 port free
> for stuff that needs them. These are both wired mice, not wireless.

Hummm

These machines are rather old.  When I run "lsusb -v" and grep on bcdUSB they 
all
show  2.00.  So, I don't think I have any USB3 ports.  Still I see full-speed 
USB
reported.

I'm pretty sure bcdUSB indicates the version since an even older laptop has 
2.00 and
1.10.

> I was wondering if maybe older kernels used to reconnect
> silently so no one noticed the port problem. That would explain
> why I never saw it before (because it is hard to miss when
> my button reprogramming disappears and drag lock stops working :-).
>

Not that I know of.  Other than the one time a kernel update caused some mice 
not to
be recognized I've never had a problem.

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Re: USB flakes out?

[Ed Greshko]

On 11/19/19 10:26 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> These machines are rather old.

OK, I found the spec sheet for the MB on these system.  And, yes, all usb are 
USB 2.0.

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.bash_profile: line execution based on su vs. direct login.

[home user]

(Fedora-30)

good morning,

My .bash_profile looks like this:
---
# .bash_profile

# Get the aliases and functions
if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
   . ~/.bashrc
fi

# User specific environment and startup programs

PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
export PATH

ksysguard &

# the end.
---
But I want the KSysGuard to be launched only when:
* the session is interactive (not batch, cron, anacron, or at);
and
* it's a direct login from the login screen, not an "su" connection.
How do I do that in my .bash_profile?  That is,
-
if [ what goes here? ]; then
   ksysguard &
fi
-
How do I, within the .bash_profile if test, distinguish su connection 
vs. direct login from the login screen?


Bill.
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Re: .bash_profile: line execution based on su vs. direct login.

[Garry Williams]

This may help: 
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/26676/how-to-check-if-a-shell-is-login-interactive-batch

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 11:14 AM home user  wrote:
>
> (Fedora-30)
>
> good morning,
>
> My .bash_profile looks like this:
> ---
> # .bash_profile
>
> # Get the aliases and functions
> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
> . ~/.bashrc
> fi
>
> # User specific environment and startup programs
>
> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
> export PATH
>
> ksysguard &
>
> # the end.
> ---
> But I want the KSysGuard to be launched only when:
> * the session is interactive (not batch, cron, anacron, or at);
> and
> * it's a direct login from the login screen, not an "su" connection.
> How do I do that in my .bash_profile?  That is,
> -
> if [ what goes here? ]; then
> ksysguard &
> fi
> -
> How do I, within the .bash_profile if test, distinguish su connection
> vs. direct login from the login screen?
>
> Bill.
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-- 
Garry Williams
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Re: USB flakes out?

[George N. White III]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 at 10:06, Tom Horsley  wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:56:05 +0800
> Ed Greshko wrote:
>
> > I wonder why yours shows as low-speed USB device.  Just curious.
>
> Because it is plugged into a usb2 port to leave usb3 port free
> for stuff that needs them. These are both wired mice, not wireless.
>
> I was wondering if maybe older kernels used to reconnect
> silently so no one noticed the port problem. That would explain
> why I never saw it before (because it is hard to miss when
> my button reprogramming disappears and drag lock stops working :-).
>

The EFI message was introduced long ago.Has USB3
port usage changed since you upgraded to Fedora 31?

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: USB flakes out?

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:42:51 -0400
George N. White III wrote:

> The EFI message was introduced long ago.Has USB3
> port usage changed since you upgraded to Fedora 31?

Nope. The only thing different on both these systems
is fedora 31. At least it only happens every few hours
(or even days), so it isn't constantly changing my
mouse buttons and it is easy to re-run the xinput
commands I have in a script when it does happen.
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Re: .bash_profile: line execution based on su vs. direct login.

[Ed Greshko]

On 11/20/19 12:13 AM, home user wrote:
> (Fedora-30)
>
> good morning,
>
> My .bash_profile looks like this:
> ---
> # .bash_profile
>
> # Get the aliases and functions
> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
>    . ~/.bashrc
> fi
>
> # User specific environment and startup programs
>
> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
> export PATH
>
> ksysguard &
>
> # the end.
> ---
> But I want the KSysGuard to be launched only when:
> * the session is interactive (not batch, cron, anacron, or at);
> and
> * it's a direct login from the login screen, not an "su" connection.
> How do I do that in my .bash_profile?  That is,
> -
> if [ what goes here? ]; then
>    ksysguard &
> fi
> -
> How do I, within the .bash_profile if test, distinguish su connection vs. 
> direct login from the login screen?
>

Are you a KDE user?  If so, and you want ksysguard started when you login to a 
KDE session
why not use System Settings-->Workspace--->Startup & Shutdown--->Autostart?


-- 
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Re: USB flakes out?

[George N. White III]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 at 14:58, Tom Horsley  wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:42:51 -0400
> George N. White III wrote:
>
> > The EFI message was introduced long ago.Has USB3
> > port usage changed since you upgraded to Fedora 31?
>
> Nope. The only thing different on both these systems
> is fedora 31. At least it only happens every few hours
> (or even days), so it isn't constantly changing my
> mouse buttons and it is easy to re-run the xinput
> commands I have in a script when it does happen.\
>

EFI is looking like a red herring.   Next on the list of
suspects with access to both systems is power
management.   Have a look at USB Power Management for Linux 5.3

(hasn't changed over many kernel versions).   A good first step would
be to disable USB PM and see if the issue goes away.

Although USB PM has been fairly stable, power management changes

are being made in other parts of the kernel, so collateral damage is a
possibility.




-- 
George N. White III
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Re: USB flakes out?

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:42:31 -0400
George N. White III wrote:

> EFI is looking like a red herring.   Next on the list of
> suspects with access to both systems is power
> management.   Have a look at USB Power Management for Linux 5.3
> 
> (hasn't changed over many kernel versions).   A good first step would
> be to disable USB PM and see if the issue goes away.

Thanks! That sounds like useful info. The kernel already had the
mouse set to not ever suspend, but backing up to the hub, I see it
set to "auto", so I disabled the hub PM and I'll see if I notice
the mouse go away again.
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Re: USB flakes out?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 11/18/19 12:46 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:

I'm now running fedora 31 on my system at home and at
work. On both systems I occasionally notice all my
xinput settings have reverted to default, as if I
unplugged my mouse and plugged it back in (even though
I didn't unplug it).

Has anyone else noticed USB weirdness like this? Looking
at dmesg, that seems to be what the kernel thinks
happened:

[   36.142138] 8021q: 802.1Q VLAN Support v1.8
[   36.188272] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): wlp0s29u1u2: link becomes ready
[28350.784597] usb 2-1-port5: disabled by hub (EMI?), re-enabling...
[28350.784606] usb 2-1.5: USB disconnect, device number 4
[28350.979282] usb 2-1.5: new low-speed USB device number 6 using ehci-pci
[28351.063350] usb 2-1.5: New USB device found, idVendor=047d, idProduct=1020, 
bcdDevice= 1.00
[28351.063355] usb 2-1.5: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=0
[28351.063358] usb 2-1.5: Product: Kensington Expert Mouse
[28351.063360] usb 2-1.5: Manufacturer: Kensington
[28351.066182] input: Kensington  Kensington Expert Mouse as 
/devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.5/2-1.5:1.0/0003:047D:1020.0005/input/input21
[28351.066409] hid-generic 0003:047D:1020.0005: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.10 
Mouse [Kensington  Kensington Expert Mouse] on usb-:00:1d.0-1.5/input0

Looks like a little less than 8 hours after the booted,
the kernel decided I just disconnected and reconnected
the mouse.

I have no idea what an EMI is, but that's what starts everything.



Hi Tom,

Probably not what you asked, but when does that stop me?

Is this a "add on" USB card?  I have the worst luck with
add on USB cards in both Windows and Linux.  My shop computer
has an add on USB 3.1 card that is a one shot card: I can read
a flash drive from it once.  After I eject the flash drive,
I have to reboot to get it to work again.  And this
was the forth card I tested.  The first three just
corrupted the data or blew out.

Never have any issue with the USB ports on the motherboard.
Are the malfunction port(s) on your motherboard?

-T


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Re: USB flakes out?

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 15:28:04 -0800
ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

> Never have any issue with the USB ports on the motherboard.
> Are the malfunction port(s) on your motherboard?

On the motherboard on both systems. I've tried disabling
the USB power management on the hub and I'll see what that
does.
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Re: USB flakes out?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 11/19/19 3:49 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 15:28:04 -0800
ToddAndMargo via users wrote:


Never have any issue with the USB ports on the motherboard.
Are the malfunction port(s) on your motherboard?


On the motherboard on both systems. I've tried disabling
the USB power management on the hub and I'll see what that
does.


Okay, I have seen that on ps/2 to USB converters.
Lights flash on the ps/2 keyboard every so often.
Never lost my settings though.

Also, have you tried other mice/keyboards from
other manufacturer?  I would be really suspicious
of your peripheral hardware at this point.
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Re: Thunderbird and text messages -

[Stephen Morris]

On 18/11/19 22:21, Bob Goodwin wrote:


On 11/18/19 1:01 AM, Tim via users wrote:

That sounds more like a change in how they were sent.  Though you could
look for options like display as plain text.  Or the opposite, if
they're being sent as HTML.

If the texts are being sent as attachments, rather than being the
message content, I think you're going to be stuck with this problem.
Most mail clients do not show attachments directly, though some can
have a click to view option for some kinds of attachments.  A sender
can suggest to automatically show the attachment, but that depends on
the sender doing it, and your client supporting it, and it being the
kind of data that the client can display by itself.
  -- uname


.

All the iPhone messages listed show the .txt attachment at the bottom 
and the message text area is blank, those bcc copies from my computer 
display my text response as usual. Those same files/messages can be 
read if I boot Fedora-29' The only variable I see is Fedora, 
apparently it no longer works with the attachments ...


View as plain text or any of the three does not seem to change what I 
see.



Just one question on this, in 
Edit->Preferences->Composition->HTMLStyle->Configure text format 
behaviour->Send Options do you have the option "Send messages as plain 
text if possible" unticked or ticked. This option may have changed its 
default setting in the version of Thunderbird in F31. I had to tick this 
option for emails sent to this mail list, but I could have also added 
this user list domain to the text only domains to achieve the same 
thing. I'm using Thunderbird 72.0a1 so my options may be slightly 
different to yours.


regards,
Steve

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Re: USB flakes out?

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:38:33 -0800
ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

> Also, have you tried other mice/keyboards from
> other manufacturer?  I would be really suspicious
> of your peripheral hardware at this point.

I've used these for years, and this only started happening
when fedora 31 was installed on both systems. Hardware
seems really unlikely to me.
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Re: USB flakes out?

[jdow]

On 20191119 15:04:58, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:42:31 -0400
George N. White III wrote:


EFI is looking like a red herring.   Next on the list of
suspects with access to both systems is power
management.   Have a look at USB Power Management for Linux 5.3
<https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.3/driver-api/usb/power-management.html>
(hasn't changed over many kernel versions).   A good first step would
be to disable USB PM and see if the issue goes away.


Thanks! That sounds like useful info. The kernel already had the
mouse set to not ever suspend, but backing up to the hub, I see it
set to "auto", so I disabled the hub PM and I'll see if I notice
the mouse go away again.


Another thing that comes to mind, that I have seen, is a flaky USB cable. 
Flexing it would cause a USB reset for the device. And mice seem to get a lot of 
flexing due a lot of movement.

{o.o}
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Re: .bash_profile: line execution based on su vs. direct login.

[home user]

(responding to three posts)

(Garry)
> This may help:
> 
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/26676/how-to-check-if-a-shell-is... 

Thank-you, Garry.  I read it.  I don't see how that helps.  Here's the 
scenario:

-
[part 1]
user1 powers up the workstation; it boots up fine; the login screen is 
displayed.

user1 logs in as user1; user1's .bash_profile launches ksysguard.
(it's interactive mode now, right?)
user1 launches a terminal.
[part 2]
in the terminal, user1 enters the command "su --login user2".
su prompts for user2's password; he enters it.
(it's interactive mode now, right?)
-
Now it's unlikely that user2 wants a new ksysguard launched by his 
.bash_profile at this point, since the ksysguard launched by user1's 
.bash_profile is still running.


But if after power-up and boot-up, the user logs in as user2, there is 
not a ksysguard already running.  Yet he's in interactive mode.  So his 
.bash_profile should launch ksysguard.


My sense is that testing for interactive mode won't work here.  I've 
also looked at info on bash (before opening this thread).  My sense is 
that some su vs. direct login indicator that can be tested inside a bash 
script does not exist.  (If I'm wrong, I'd like to know!)  Now I'm 
looking for a different kind of solution.


(Ed)
> Are you a KDE user?
Thank-you, Ed.
Well, after 6 years, you haven't made me a KDE convert yet!  :)
I'm mostly a Gnome user.
> If so, and you want ksysguard started when you login to a KDE session
> why not use System Settings-->Workspace--->Startup & 
Shutdown--->Autostart?
I put ksysguard in between the "then" and the "fi" hoping that making 
this simple and concrete would help this thread go quick and easy.  The 
real .bash_profile has stuff there that's more complicated and less well 
known.


(me)
After coming to think that login and interactive modes are not the 
answer, I started digging into ps, and piping its output into grep.  
Unfortunately, that generates another process "grep ksysguard ...".  
Piping into "grep -v ..." also doesn't help.  After groping all over 
grep and bash today and trying lots of things, I got lucky.  In the GNU 
Grep 3.3 web page

"http://www.gnu.org/software/grep/manual/grep.html";,
I found this:
-
7. Why do people use strange regular expressions on |ps| output?

ps -ef | grep '[c]ron'

If the pattern had been written without the square brackets, it would 
have matched not only the |ps| output line for |cron|, but also the |ps| 
output line for |grep|. Note that on some platforms, |ps| limits the 
output to the width of the screen; |grep| does not have any limit on the 
length of a line except the available memory.

-
So user2's .bash_profile if block should look like this:
-
if ! [[ "ps -ef | grep [k]sysguard" ]] ; then
   ksysguard &
fi
-
I tried it.  It works, both with direct login (ksysguard is launched) 
and su (a second ksysguard is not launched).


The main problem is solved.  But this leaves me with two follow-up 
questions:
1. How does the [first_letter] prevent matching the ps output line for 
grep?  (I'm almost certain I'm not the only member of this list not 
knowing the answer to this!)  It works, and I'm using it, but it would 
be good to really understand how it works (beyond what the GNU grep page 
says).  I saw no hint of an answer in the regular expression write-up.
2. Is there a way to have a *single* grep match one string and not 
another.  Example: find all lines containing "ksysguard" but not 
"grep".  Note that

grep ksysguard | grep -v grep
is *not* what I'm looking for.

thanks,
Bill.

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Re: .bash_profile: line execution based on su vs. direct login.

[Ed Greshko]

On 11/20/19 11:55 AM, home user wrote:

FWIW, it is bad practice to answer multiple posts in the same message.

Anyway

> > Are you a KDE user?
> Thank-you, Ed.
> Well, after 6 years, you haven't made me a KDE convert yet!  :)
> I'm mostly a Gnome user.

For GNOME it is almost as simple.

If the directory doesn't already exist

mkdir ~/.config/autostart

Then create a file called something like ksysguard.desktop in that directory 
with the following contents.

[Desktop Entry]
Version=1.0
Name=Ksysguard
GenericName=Watch
Exec=ksysguard
Terminal=false
Type=Application

And you're done.

ksysguard will start the next time you login.


-- 
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
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Re: USB flakes out?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 11/19/19 4:50 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:38:33 -0800
ToddAndMargo via users wrote:


Also, have you tried other mice/keyboards from
other manufacturer?  I would be really suspicious
of your peripheral hardware at this point.


I've used these for years, and this only started happening
when fedora 31 was installed on both systems. Hardware
seems really unlikely to me.


Dig into the archives and make yourself a Fedora 30 Live
USB stick.  See if the problem reoccurs.


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Re: .bash_profile: line execution based on su vs. direct login.

[Todd Zullinger]

home user wrote:
> After coming to think that login and interactive modes are not the answer, I
> started digging into ps, and piping its output into grep.  Unfortunately,
> that generates another process "grep ksysguard ...".  Piping into "grep -v
> ..." also doesn't help.  After groping all over grep and bash today and
> trying lots of things, I got lucky.  In the GNU Grep 3.3 web page
> "http://www.gnu.org/software/grep/manual/grep.html";,
> I found this:
> -
> 7. Why do people use strange regular expressions on |ps| output?
> 
> ps -ef | grep '[c]ron'

You could also use 'pgrep ksysguard' instead of piping ps to
grep.  That avoids both a pipe and the need to hide the grep
command from the grep.

> The main problem is solved.  But this leaves me with two follow-up
> questions:
> 1. How does the [first_letter] prevent matching the ps output line for
> grep?  (I'm almost certain I'm not the only member of this list not knowing
> the answer to this!)  It works, and I'm using it, but it would be good to
> really understand how it works (beyond what the GNU grep page says).  I saw
> no hint of an answer in the regular expression write-up.

When you run ps -ef | grep ksysguard, the ps list includes
entries for both ps -ef and grep ksysguard.  Adding the
bracets around a character in the grep command means that
the grep pattern is looking for that one character followed
by the others, in the case of 'grep [k]sysguard' the regular
expression is k followed by sysguard.

In the ps -ef output, the string [k]sysguard doesn't match
because there are literal brackets there.  In the grep
regex, those brackets have special meaning.  So this is a
good method for filtering such matches in the output of ps.

But pgrep is generally easier and purpose-built for that
particular problem.

> 2. Is there a way to have a *single* grep match one string and not another. 
> Example: find all lines containing "ksysguard" but not "grep".  Note that
> grep ksysguard | grep -v grep
> is *not* what I'm looking for.

Yes, by ensuring the regex is precise and doesn't match both
lines, which is just what using [k]sysguard does.  You might
be able to do this with something fancy like a negative
lookbehind, using 'grep -P' but I'm not sure.

Or you could use a regex which took advantage of the ps -ef
output format, like ps -ef | grep '[0-9] ksysguard'.  That
won't match the grep for ksysguard because it's only looking
for a number followed by a space, followed by ksysguard.

Both are far less elegant/readable than grep [k]sysguard. :)
Which is itself less elegant than using pgrep.  And in this
case, I think, pgrep is far less elegant than using the
desktop's autostart functions, as Ed showed for both Gnome
and KDE.

-- 
Todd


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