Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube

[Joel Rees]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Ed Greshko  wrote:
> On 04/14/2012 02:15 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
>> Well, I just downloaded the tarball once more, and took a look. cmp
>> says today's tarball is different from yesterdays. Unpacking the
>> tarball and doing a diff -r reveals that they differ in the contents
>> of the readme (version goes up from .228 to .233) and the kde library,
>> /usr/lib/kde4/kcm/adobe/flash_player.so .

Noticed that libflashplayer is also different, so I went ahead and
moved today's libflashplayer in to see what would happen. No change.
(Guess I'm still not up to speed on reading diffs.)

I should note that some videos work, either way. (Live video of Heart
doing Heartless and another of B-52s doing Roam. The Roam video claims
to be a conversion to Theora.) Probably Theora/ogg and other free
stuff works and non-free stuff that depends on Flash to get around the
codec issue doesn't.

>> So, the versions shouldn't be at issue here. I guess I'll tell my
>> daughter that youtube is isn't going to work for a few days, until I
>> get more information, at least.
>>
>> Adobe's failure to provide cryptographic checksums for those further
>> undermines my trust in their processes.
>
> Why don't you switch your youtube experience to hmtl5?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/html5
>
> and join

Great idea!

Doesn't seem to make any difference, however.

I'm seeing some messages that may be related in /var/log/messages,
I'll have to copy paste them into this thread. And I'll try moving the
old Flash plugin back in to see if that tells me anything. May put
flash in one account on the box I'm using here, to see if it's perhaps
a CPU or other hardware issue but not now. Have some family business.

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systemctl without privilege

[Frank Murphy]

clamav-server installed using:
https://raw.github.com/csmart/naa/master/sysadmin/scripts/configure-clamd.sh


Am running clamd instance as user "clamav"

How can I get
the following to work as clamav,
or do I have to get user clamav
to join a privileged group?


--snips from freshclam.conf

# By default when started freshclam drops privileges and switches to the
# "clamav" user. This directive allows you to change the database owner.
# Default: clamav (may depend on installation options)
DatabaseOwner clamav


# Send the RELOAD command to clamd.
# Default: no
NotifyClamd /etc/clamd.d/clamav.conf (same as clamd.conf)

# Run command after successful database update.
# Default: disabled
OnUpdateExecute systemctl reload clamd.clamav.service


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Frank
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R: Re: Perhaps this exists already, and if not, it should...

[Antonio.montagnani]

Inviato da Samsung Mobile

 Original message 
Subject: Re: Perhaps this exists already, and if not, it should... 
From: Michael Hennebry  
To: Community support for Fedora users  
CC:  

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 14.04.2012 00:07, schrieb Michael Hennebry:
>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 17:19:23 -0400,
>>> You mean incorrectly. Like when I tried to provide links to html source
>>> using a text/plain mimetype and internet explorer disregarded this and
>>> treated the pages as html instead based on the URL ending in .html.
>>
>> Perhaps it be useful to be able to tell a browser --force text/plain
>
> and what do you think is the intention of "Content-Type: text/plain"?
> MSIE is simply to stupid to act as standards saying

I was suggesting that if either the browser or
the server does not know how to play nice,
the user might want to make a firm suggestion.
I've occasionally been annoyed by a text, not .txt,
file mime-typed application/binary or some such.

> noobs saying "but MSIE behaves correctly if the server is misconfigured"
> does not chnage this fact - a client must not make assumptions in
> cases where standards are defining correct behavior

-- 
Michael   henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu
"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword."  --  Lily
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Re: Perhaps this exists already, and if not, it should...

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.04.2012 13:43, schrieb Antonio.montagnani:
> I was suggesting that if either the browser or
> the server does not know how to play nice,
> the user might want to make a firm suggestion.
> I've occasionally been annoyed by a text, not .txt,
> file mime-typed application/binary or some such.

no thanks

there are really few servers which are configured wrong
poblems should be solved where they are and not on the
other side to hide them

if you hit one of this servers write a mail to the
admin if he has ever considered to do his job



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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[suvayu ali]

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 21:09, Andrew Gray  wrote:
> Again how do you kill a  cp in UNINTERRUPTIBLE SLEEP !!!

I'll repeat myself: "The only way to get rid of these processes is to
wait or reboot."

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Re: ThinkPad microphone not working

[suvayu ali]

Hi Stan,

Thanks for your helpful comments.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 18:33, stan  wrote:
> Did anything change around the time the mic stopped working?
>

I think I inadvertently dropped my backpack to the floor (from about 15
cm) with the ThinkPad inside along with a few books and some clothes. I
can't tell exactly when it stopped working since I didn't need the mic
for about a week. I had been successfully using the mic before.

> I don't think this is an alsa issue.  If alsamixer sees the mic, then
> alsa is handling it properly, if the driver and hardware are OK.
>
> Install pavucontrol and check how pulse is viewing the microphone.
> Perhaps it inadvertently got turned off?
>

Everything seems to be in order. Just for the sake of completeness I'm
posting screenshots from both alsamixer and pavucontrol. Alsamixer was
started like this:

$ alsamixer -c0 -Vcapture

> Look for permission conflicts, including SELinux, in the logs, when you
> try to use the mic.
>

I looked in /var/log/messages. I see no suspicious messages. But I do
see the following:

pulseaudio[1455]: module-alsa-card.c: Failed to find a working profile.
pulseaudio[1455]: module.c: Failed to load  module "module-alsa-card"
(argument: "device_id="29" name="platform-thinkpad_acpi"
card_name="alsa_card.platform-thinkpad_acpi" tsched=yes ignore_dB=no
card_properties="module-udev-detect.discovered=1""): initialization
failed.

Although I don't understand the error, I don't think this is related to
my problem as I see this is also present in old log files (from the time
when the mic worked).

> Try using arecord to record directly from alsa into a wav.
> arecord -d 10 -f cd -t wav foobar.wav
> If the default device doesn't work, you can try
> arecord -d 10 -f cd -t wav -D plughw:0 foobar.wav
> or
> arecord -d 10 -f cd -t wav -D plughw:1 foobar.wav
>
> If none of these work, I would suspect hardware failure.

None of these worked and I also looked at the alsa-devel thread you
referenced; I don't think that my issue is similar.

I guess that means this is hardware failure. Hopefully I won't have
problems with warranty since I bought this in Canada, and now I am in
Switzerland. :-|

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Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube

[Joel Rees]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Joel Rees  wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Ed Greshko  wrote:
>> On 04/14/2012 02:15 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
>>> Well, I just downloaded the tarball once more, and took a look. cmp
>>> says today's tarball is different from yesterdays. Unpacking the
>>> tarball and doing a diff -r reveals that they differ in the contents
>>> of the readme (version goes up from .228 to .233) and the kde library,
>>> /usr/lib/kde4/kcm/adobe/flash_player.so .
>
> Noticed that libflashplayer is also different, so I went ahead and
> moved today's libflashplayer in to see what would happen. No change.
> (Guess I'm still not up to speed on reading diffs.)
>
> I should note that some videos work, either way. (Live video of Heart
> doing Heartless and another of B-52s doing Roam. The Roam video claims
> to be a conversion to Theora.) Probably Theora/ogg and other free
> stuff works and non-free stuff that depends on Flash to get around the
> codec issue doesn't.
>
>>> So, the versions shouldn't be at issue here. I guess I'll tell my
>>> daughter that youtube is isn't going to work for a few days, until I
>>> get more information, at least.
>>>
>>> Adobe's failure to provide cryptographic checksums for those further
>>> undermines my trust in their processes.
>>
>> Why don't you switch your youtube experience to hmtl5?
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/html5
>>
>> and join
>
> Great idea!
>
> Doesn't seem to make any difference, however.
>
> I'm seeing some messages that may be related in /var/log/messages,
> I'll have to copy paste them into this thread. And I'll try moving the
> old Flash plugin back in to see if that tells me anything.

With the old flash plugin, youtube works fine.

> May put
> flash in one account on the box I'm using here, to see if it's perhaps
> a CPU or other hardware issue but not now.

Okay, the current flash plugin and yesterdays both work on this box. Except that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_GpxCUg9Vo

(heart playing heartless on TV back in the 70s) doesn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03S9o4sFxE

B52s playing Roam, does play.

html5 setting doesn't make any difference on this box, either.

This box is a netbook with the accursed Intel Atom N455, 32 bit
fedora. That box is AMD Sempron 2600, all 32 bit.

Guess I need to file a bug somewhere.

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Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube

[Fernando Cassia]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 03:15, Joel Rees  wrote:
> Well, I just downloaded the tarball once more, and took a look. cmp
> says today's tarball is different from yesterdays.

I thought Adobe had dropped Linux support for Flash, expect in its
"embedded into Chrome" version?

FC

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Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
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Re: ThinkPad microphone not working

[suvayu ali]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 14:47, suvayu ali  wrote:
>> I don't think this is an alsa issue.  If alsamixer sees the mic, then
>> alsa is handling it properly, if the driver and hardware are OK.
>>
>> Install pavucontrol and check how pulse is viewing the microphone.
>> Perhaps it inadvertently got turned off?
>>
>
> Everything seems to be in order. Just for the sake of completeness I'm
> posting screenshots from both alsamixer and pavucontrol. Alsamixer was
> started like this:
>
> $ alsamixer -c0 -Vcapture

I forgot to include the screenshots :-p

http://imagebin.org/208058
http://imagebin.org/208059

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Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube

[Sam Varshavchik]

Joel Rees writes:


Well, I just downloaded the tarball once more, and took a look. cmp


Why are you making this more difficult than it needs to me?

Just install their yum repository package, and you get your Flash updates  
via Packagekit.


This morning PackageKit prompted me to update the kernel, all the other  
overnight Fedora updates, and Flash 11.2 update. So I did, rebooted, and I'm  
now watching Youboob.


No issues whatsoever. And this is even the 64 bit Flash plugin that I have  
here.


Haven't had to mess around with Flash tarballs, and all that nonsense, for a  
long, long time.




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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Dave Ihnat]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 01:35:38AM +, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
> So here is the question. Suppose I have several processes that run 
> concurrently and each outputs stuff to stdout. Can the combined output be 
> intermingled? 

If you just send the output to a file, you've no way of knowing exactly
when it will be output, or whether it will be buffered before writing.
You can mitigate this a bit by making every output line have a sequence and
process identifier--the PID and date in seconds would work--so you could
separate the streams later.

If you really would like to get output in sequence, write to a pipe, and
have a reader process drain the pipe to a logfile.  It's pretty easy; look
at "mknod" with the 'p' option, or "mkfifo".  I'd still suggest tagging
each output line with an identifier and sequence number.

Cheers,
--
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Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/14/2012 09:11 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
> With the old flash plugin, youtube works fine.
>
>> > May put
>> > flash in one account on the box I'm using here, to see if it's perhaps
>> > a CPU or other hardware issue but not now.
> Okay, the current flash plugin and yesterdays both work on this box. Except 
> that
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_GpxCUg9Vo
>
> (heart playing heartless on TV back in the 70s) doesn't.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03S9o4sFxE
>
> B52s playing Roam, does play.
>
> html5 setting doesn't make any difference on this box, either.
>
> This box is a netbook with the accursed Intel Atom N455, 32 bit
> fedora. That box is AMD Sempron 2600, all 32 bit.
>
> Guess I need to file a bug somewhere.

I am unable to follow what you are doing.  I thought there was one box...your
daughter's.  Now there are 2.  This and that.

FWIW, both of those URLs you cite play just fine under F16/Firefox/HTML5 on my 
Intel
i5 system.  As I said, and as Sam has also pointed out, there really is no 
reason to
mess with the tar file.  Nobody I know jumps through hoops longer.

Good luck.

-- 
Never be afraid to laugh at yourself, after all, you could be missing out on 
the joke
of the century. -- Dame Edna Everage
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Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube

[Fernando Cassia]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 03:30, Ed Greshko  wrote:
> Why don't you switch your youtube experience to hmtl5?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/html5

Just to parachute into this thread, and not being the OP...

I found the default plug-in to be lacking. Particularly, it displays
some youtube videos, but not others. A FF dialog pops up telling me it
needs to find Sorensen codec, I press OK, and then tells me it hasn't
found any.

I think this wouldn't happen if the default plug-in for vids were mplayer...

In fact, I uninstalled the default plugins, and installed gecko-mediaplayer*
works like a charm for all vids.

Just my $0.02
FC

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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/14/2012 09:33 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 01:35:38AM +, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
>> So here is the question. Suppose I have several processes that run 
>> concurrently and each outputs stuff to stdout. Can the combined output be 
>> intermingled? 
> If you just send the output to a file, you've no way of knowing exactly
> when it will be output, or whether it will be buffered before writing.
> You can mitigate this a bit by making every output line have a sequence and
> process identifier--the PID and date in seconds would work--so you could
> separate the streams later.
>
> If you really would like to get output in sequence, write to a pipe, and
> have a reader process drain the pipe to a logfile.  It's pretty easy; look
> at "mknod" with the 'p' option, or "mkfifo".  I'd still suggest tagging
> each output line with an identifier and sequence number.
>

Yes, the pipe idea would work well and ensure you get all the output.

The one problem would be if, as the OP's script is written, backgrounding of
processes is done there is no way to control the order of data being written to 
the
pipe.  And, as you pointed out, you may want to write out sequence numbers if 
that is
important.

-- 
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the joke
of the century. -- Dame Edna Everage
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Re: External eSATA drive not recognized on 2nd power up

[John Austin]

On Sun, 2012-04-08 at 12:34 +0100, John Austin wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-03-31 at 19:09 +0100, James Wilkinson wrote:
> > I asked Patrick:
> > > Does it work with older (pre 3.3) kernels?
> > 
> > Patrick Lists wrote:
> > > I don't have a pre-3.3 kernel as these are kickstart deployments of
> > > F16 + updates.
> > 
> > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=8 has links to
> > all the recent kernel builds, including the last 3.2 Fedora kernels.
> > 
> > You should be able to just download and install a suitable kernel.
> > 
> > Hope this helps,
> > 
> > James.
> > 
> > -- 
> > E-mail: james@ | “Sir, they’ve taken Mr. Rimmer!”
> > aprilcottage.co.uk | “Quick, let’s get out of here before they bring him
> >| back!”
> >| -- Kryten and Cat, ‘Red Dwarf’
> 
> 
> Just to say this problem still appears to be present with
> 
> ja@minix ~ 1$ uname -a
> Linux minix 3.3.1-3.fc16.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Apr 4 18:08:51 UTC 2012
> x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
> 
> where it is meant to have been cured
> 
> I have added details to
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=806676
> 
> I hope it gets solved soon as I use eSATA hotplug often each day !
> 
> John

Not fixed for me using
ja@minix ~ 1$ uname -a
Linux minix 3.3.1-5.fc16.x86_64

but it looks as if this may be the problem

http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-ide/msg43173.html
(Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:24:07 +08002012_04_13)

"...
> The fundamental problem with this patch is that all SATA ports are 
> hotpluggable... even the ones the firmware/silicon failed to mark as 
> hotpluggable via AHCI's PORT_CMD_MPSP | PORT_CMD_HPCP

So the acceptable solution is to add runtime pm support for hotpluggable
port.

I'll send new patches.

Thanks,
Lin Ming"


John






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Re: Perhaps this exists already, and if not, it should...

[Aaron Konstam]

On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 17:56 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: 
> I found myself on a command line window, wanting to open a PDF, and I
> didnt remember the name of the pdf reader that now comes as a default
> install for Fedora. Too many years of "just installing Acrobat" left
> me with "./acroread whatever.pdf" engraved into my brain cells.
> 
> So.. I had to go to "add/remove programs" type "PDF" in the search
> field, and then wait as the program showed the name of the app:
> evince.
> 
> Now that's great. I now know its 'evince whatever.pdf'.
> 
> But that got me thinking. Shouldn't there be a "meta-command" like
> "open filename.whatever" that just seeks the default file association
> in gnome or whatever, and find the app name, and invoke the right app
> without the end user having to memorize the exact app name associated
> with any given file extension type?.
> 
> I'm not exceptionally bright, and my bright ideas more often than not
> tend to be ideas implemented ages ago... so I guess that utilty might
> exist already, no?
> 
> FC
If you display the file as a GUI icon inn your home file system. Start
at the Home icon (or computer icon) and go down to the file, clicking
will show you options for opening a pdf file. Although evince will do
that, acroread is  the adobe reader application.


-- 
===
It's more than magnificent -- it's mediocre. -- Sam Goldwyn
===
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Perhaps this exists already, and if not, it should...

[Fernando Cassia]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:01, Aaron Konstam  wrote:
> Although evince will do
> that, acroread is  the adobe reader application.

You missed the point I was trying to make, completely.
Please, re-read my message. It has been answered already anyway.
But thanks for your response.

FC
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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Dave Ihnat]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 09:49:00PM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> The one problem would be if, as the OP's script is written,
> backgrounding of processes is done there is no way to control the
> order of data being written to the pipe.  And, as you pointed out,
> you may want to write out sequence numbers if that is important.

Well, it's guaranteed it will be in the order written by each process,
since the write to the pipe is queued in request order.  I'm
anal-retentive; the more useful data, the better.  The identifier &
sequence number gives me more data I can mung, and strip if I don't
need it.

Cheers,
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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/14/2012 10:09 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 09:49:00PM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> The one problem would be if, as the OP's script is written,
>> backgrounding of processes is done there is no way to control the
>> order of data being written to the pipe.  And, as you pointed out,
>> you may want to write out sequence numbers if that is important.
> Well, it's guaranteed it will be in the order written by each process,
> since the write to the pipe is queued in request order.  I'm
> anal-retentive; the more useful data, the better.  The identifier &
> sequence number gives me more data I can mung, and strip if I don't
> need it.

What I was referring to was the script as written by the OP and which may he 
executed as

./io.sh > pipe

The script contains multiple "echo &" commands which are not guaranteed to be
executed in order, especially on a multi-CPU system.

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Re: ThinkPad microphone not working

[stan]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 15:15:44 +0200
suvayu ali  wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 14:47, suvayu ali
>  wrote:
> >> I don't think this is an alsa issue.  If alsamixer sees the mic,
> >> then alsa is handling it properly, if the driver and hardware are
> >> OK.
> >>
> >> Install pavucontrol and check how pulse is viewing the microphone.
> >> Perhaps it inadvertently got turned off?
> >>
> >
> > Everything seems to be in order. Just for the sake of completeness
> > I'm posting screenshots from both alsamixer and pavucontrol.
> > Alsamixer was started like this:
> >
> > $ alsamixer -c0 -Vcapture
> 
> I forgot to include the screenshots :-p
> 
> http://imagebin.org/208058
> http://imagebin.org/208059

You're right, these look fine.  There is one other thing.  When I open
alsamixer in capture view on my cards, there is a setting for whether
capture is line in, cd, or mic. Is your capture set to mic?

I've had to switch this in the past when I wanted to record something
from a receiver via line in or from the mic.  Record wouldn't do what I
wanted, even though it was turned on.
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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[inode0]

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Amadeus W.M.  wrote:
>>
>> [egreshko@meimei test]$ grep ^A out | wc
>>      97      97     582
>> [egreshko@meimei test]$ grep ^B out | wc
>>      94      94     564
>> [egreshko@meimei test]$ grep ^C out | wc
>>      96      96     576
>
> I replicated this and indeed I don't get 100 lines of As, Bs and Cs.
> That's a new problem. Why don't I get all? Shouldn't all 300 echos have
> been launched when the script completes? And if the script has completed
> and there are echos running in the background, they should complete, no?
>
> I put a "wait" at the end of the script to wait for the completion of the
> echos, but I still get fewer lines than 100 per A, B, C.
>
> This is aggravating. So not all echos get executed (why?), yet I still
> don't see the output mingled.

I admit I am not really clear on what output you want to get but does
this give the output you want?

./ioTest.sh | cat > out

John
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Hal]

On 4/14/2012 8:08 AM, suvayu ali wrote:

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 21:09, Andrew Gray  wrote:

Again how do you kill a  cp in UNINTERRUPTIBLE SLEEP !!!

I'll repeat myself: "The only way to get rid of these processes is to
wait or reboot."



Pardon my stupidity, if you can observe ot determine the process number 
for the cp operation it appears one could use 'kill' and one of its 
options to remove the process.



YMMV...

--Hal.

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Re: ThinkPad microphone not working

[stan]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 14:47:49 +0200
suvayu ali  wrote:

> I looked in /var/log/messages. I see no suspicious messages. But I do
> see the following:
> 
> pulseaudio[1455]: module-alsa-card.c: Failed to find a working
> profile. pulseaudio[1455]: module.c: Failed to load  module
> "module-alsa-card" (argument: "device_id="29"
> name="platform-thinkpad_acpi"
> card_name="alsa_card.platform-thinkpad_acpi" tsched=yes ignore_dB=no
> card_properties="module-udev-detect.discovered=1""): initialization
> failed.
> 
> Although I don't understand the error, I don't think this is related
> to my problem as I see this is also present in old log files (from
> the time when the mic worked).

This is a long shot, but it might be that alsa has sorted your sound
devices in a different order on boot.  It sounds like it thinks your
acpi might be a sound device.

Try 
aplay -l
to see if it has your actual sound device in position 0.  Everything
looks like it, but ...

Also try booting to an older kernel (from before the problem), if you
have one. 

Maybe check the install date of alsa-lib if it is possible? Should be
in the modification time for /usr/lib[64]/libasound*.  On my system
(F17), libasound package was compiled on Feb 1.

> I guess that means this is hardware failure. 

Yeah, that would be my conclusion, though your description of the
possible failure cause doesn't seem very damaging.

> Hopefully I won't have
> problems with warranty since I bought this in Canada, and now I am in
> Switzerland. :-|

Surely they handle this case gracefully in these days of peripatetic
workers.
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/14/2012 10:54 PM, Hal wrote:
>
>
> On 4/14/2012 8:08 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 21:09, Andrew Gray  wrote:
>>> Again how do you kill a  cp in UNINTERRUPTIBLE SLEEP !!!
>> I'll repeat myself: "The only way to get rid of these processes is to
>> wait or reboot."
>>
>
> Pardon my stupidity, if you can observe ot determine the process number for 
> the cp
> operation it appears one could use 'kill' and one of its options to remove the
> process.
>
>

A.no

When you do a "kill" you are sending a "signal" to a process and that process 
will
act upon it depending on the signal.  For example, if you did a "kill -1" to the
named process it will cause it to reread its configuration files and zone files.

Whatever process you send the kill to must be in a state where it can receive 
and
process the signal.

If you process is stuck in a WAIT state it won't "catch" the signal.  The same 
is
true of Zombie processes.  Zombies are child processes whose parent process has 
died
unexpectedly.;

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[suvayu ali]

Hi Hal,

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 16:54, Hal  wrote:
> On 4/14/2012 8:08 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 21:09, Andrew Gray
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Again how do you kill a  cp in UNINTERRUPTIBLE SLEEP !!!
>>
>> I'll repeat myself: "The only way to get rid of these processes is to
>> wait or reboot."
>>
>
> Pardon my stupidity, if you can observe ot determine the process number for
> the cp operation it appears one could use 'kill' and one of its options to
> remove the process.

And I will repeat myself again: You _cannot_ kill a process in
uninterruptible sleep. Only way to get rid of this is to wait for it to
finish, or reboot the system. If you could interrupt it (sending SIGKILL
is a type of interruption), it wouldn't be called uninterruptible sleep
would it?

Some reference:


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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Amadeus W.M.]

> If you really would like to get output in sequence, write to a pipe, and
> have a reader process drain the pipe to a logfile.  It's pretty easy;
> look at "mknod" with the 'p' option, or "mkfifo".  I'd still suggest
> tagging each output line with an identifier and sequence number.
> 

For the sake of the argument, assume I echo 500 As, 500 Bs and 500 Cs. 

I don't care which process the output is coming from. It doesn't matter 
which order the As, Bs and Cs are output. All I care about is that I 
don't get 349As followed by 245Bs, etc. I want to see blocks of 500 each. 

I don't see how echoing into a pipe would change the problem. 
Theoretically, if several processes (e.g. echo) are running in the 
background, e.g. on a round robin basis, then potentially I could see 
random sequences of As, Bs and Cs. It doesn't seem to be the case in 
practice though. So which is it?

This has to do with the operating system internals, it's not a trivial 
question.

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Hal]

On 4/14/2012 11:15 AM, suvayu ali wrote:

Hi Hal,

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 16:54, Hal  wrote:

On 4/14/2012 8:08 AM, suvayu ali wrote:

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 21:09, Andrew Gray
  wrote:

Again how do you kill a  cp in UNINTERRUPTIBLE SLEEP !!!

I'll repeat myself: "The only way to get rid of these processes is to
wait or reboot."


Pardon my stupidity, if you can observe ot determine the process number for
the cp operation it appears one could use 'kill' and one of its options to
remove the process.

And I will repeat myself again: You _cannot_ kill a process in
uninterruptible sleep. Only way to get rid of this is to wait for it to
finish, or reboot the system. If you could interrupt it (sending SIGKILL
is a type of interruption), it wouldn't be called uninterruptible sleep
would it?

Some reference:



FINE..then REBOOT the darn thing and quit wasting time ..!!

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/14/2012 11:22 PM, Hal wrote:
> FINE..then REBOOT the darn thing and quit wasting time ..!! 

Actually, the only time wasted was yours in answering a question erroneously.

I view correcting your response as a community service.  :-) :-)

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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/14/2012 11:20 PM, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
> For the sake of the argument, assume I echo 500 As, 500 Bs and 500 Cs. 
>
> I don't care which process the output is coming from. It doesn't matter 
> which order the As, Bs and Cs are output. All I care about is that I 
> don't get 349As followed by 245Bs, etc. I want to see blocks of 500 each. 
>
> I don't see how echoing into a pipe would change the problem. 
> Theoretically, if several processes (e.g. echo) are running in the 
> background, e.g. on a round robin basis, then potentially I could see 
> random sequences of As, Bs and Cs. It doesn't seem to be the case in 
> practice though. So which is it?
>
> This has to do with the operating system internals, it's not a trivial 
> question.

Why don't you test it and see that it does make a difference?

[egreshko@meimei test]$ ./io.sh > out

[egreshko@meimei test]$ grep ^A out | wc
 98  98 588

[egreshko@meimei test]$ mkfifo pipe
[egreshko@meimei test]$ ./io.sh > pipe

[egreshko@meimei test]$ cat pipe | grep ^A | wc
100 100 600



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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/14/2012 11:20 PM, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
> Theoretically, if several processes (e.g. echo) are running in the 
> background, e.g. on a round robin basis, then potentially I could see 
> random sequences of As, Bs and Cs. It doesn't seem to be the case in 
> practice though. So which is it?

Oh, in practice you could see this.

A
B
C
A
B
A
C
B
C
A
B
C
B
A
C
[egreshko@meimei test]$



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Re: ThinkPad microphone not working

[suvayu ali]

Hey Stan,

I found something interesting, comments are below.

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:06, stan  wrote:
>
> This is a long shot, but it might be that alsa has sorted your sound
> devices in a different order on boot.  It sounds like it thinks your
> acpi might be a sound device.
>
> Try
> aplay -l
> to see if it has your actual sound device in position 0.  Everything
> looks like it, but ...
>

Things look in order.

$ aplay -l
 List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices 
card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 0: CONEXANT Analog [CONEXANT Analog]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

> Also try booting to an older kernel (from before the problem), if you
> have one.
>

I had tried this with no success. If it was a driver issue booting to a
kernel from before the problem started should have worked, but it
didn't.. But then I tried an old F15 Live USB (kernel 2.6.38), and it
works! So my hardware is actually okay. :)

It seems to me some bad settings are being cached somewhere; which would
also explain why booting to an older kernel also fails. Do you have any
ideas where these might be?

> Maybe check the install date of alsa-lib if it is possible? Should be
> in the modification time for /usr/lib[64]/libasound*.  On my system
> (F17), libasound package was compiled on Feb 1.
>

$ sudo yum history list alsa-lib
ID | Login user   | Date and time| Action(s)  | Altered
---
   525 | Suvayu Ali   | 2012-02-15 23:21 | Update |   18
   370 | System| 2011-10-22 23:30 | E, I, O, U | 2176

This dates back 2 months. so I would say its okay on that front.

>> Hopefully I won't have
>> problems with warranty since I bought this in Canada, and now I am in
>> Switzerland. :-|
>
> Surely they handle this case gracefully in these days of peripatetic
> workers.

The world is like a "global village" these days. ;)

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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[John Wendel]

On 04/14/2012 08:20 AM, Amadeus W.M. wrote:

If you really would like to get output in sequence, write to a pipe, and
have a reader process drain the pipe to a logfile.  It's pretty easy;
look at "mknod" with the 'p' option, or "mkfifo".  I'd still suggest
tagging each output line with an identifier and sequence number.


For the sake of the argument, assume I echo 500 As, 500 Bs and 500 Cs.

I don't care which process the output is coming from. It doesn't matter
which order the As, Bs and Cs are output. All I care about is that I
don't get 349As followed by 245Bs, etc. I want to see blocks of 500 each.

I don't see how echoing into a pipe would change the problem.
Theoretically, if several processes (e.g. echo) are running in the
background, e.g. on a round robin basis, then potentially I could see
random sequences of As, Bs and Cs. It doesn't seem to be the case in
practice though. So which is it?

This has to do with the operating system internals, it's not a trivial
question.


Actually it is semi-non-trivial. :-)

Unix/Linux makes the following guarantee ...

Multiple processes that open the same file for writing each maintain 
their own file positions, so they may overwrite the output of another 
process, unless the processes all open the file with the "O_APPEND" 
option. With the "O_APPEND" option, the system guarantees that the 
entire data from a single write by a process will be written to the end 
of the file as a indivisible block and will not be mixed with the output 
from another process. Without "O_APPEND", data from multiple processes 
may be intermixed in any order, or may seem to "disappear" (is 
overwritten by other data).


Of course, if you didn't write the code that is doing the output, you'll 
have to examine the source to see if it uses the "O_APPEND" open option. 
This may be non-trivial.


Regards,

John

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 23:14 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 04/14/2012 10:54 PM, Hal wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 4/14/2012 8:08 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
> >> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 21:09, Andrew Gray  wrote:
> >>> Again how do you kill a  cp in UNINTERRUPTIBLE SLEEP !!!
> >> I'll repeat myself: "The only way to get rid of these processes is to
> >> wait or reboot."
> >>
> >
> > Pardon my stupidity, if you can observe ot determine the process number for 
> > the cp
> > operation it appears one could use 'kill' and one of its options to remove 
> > the
> > process.
> >
> >
> 
> A.no
> 
> When you do a "kill" you are sending a "signal" to a process and that process 
> will
> act upon it depending on the signal.  For example, if you did a "kill -1" to 
> the
> named process it will cause it to reread its configuration files and zone 
> files.
> 
> Whatever process you send the kill to must be in a state where it can receive 
> and
> process the signal.

Exactly. The correct view of "kill -9" is not that you kill the process
but that you order the process to commit suicide. If it's not listening,
no amount of shouting is going to make a difference.

poc

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.04.2012 20:19, schrieb Patrick O'Callaghan:
>> When you do a "kill" you are sending a "signal" to a process and that 
>> process will
>> act upon it depending on the signal.  For example, if you did a "kill -1" to 
>> the
>> named process it will cause it to reread its configuration files and zone 
>> files.
>>
>> Whatever process you send the kill to must be in a state where it can 
>> receive and
>> process the signal.
> 
> Exactly. The correct view of "kill -9" is not that you kill the process
> but that you order the process to commit suicide. If it's not listening,
> no amount of shouting is going to make a difference.

that is all correct

on the other hand i am missing understanding that there
is no root-command to kill such processes without
"their help"

the kernel should be able to kill anything
sounds like a missing interface for me




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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Andy Blanchard]

On 14 April 2012 19:26, Reindl Harald  wrote:

>
> on the other hand i am missing understanding that there
> is no root-command to kill such processes without
> "their help"
>
> the kernel should be able to kill anything
> sounds like a missing interface for me
>

In theory, yes, but the problem would be that the kernel would no longer
have any way of knowing what state the device being waited on is in.
Depending on the device that could be very bad news and potentially result
in trashed data.

The only thing you can do is try to cause an abort/fail on whatever the
device is - in this case the NIC or the remote mount.  Couple of tricks I
used to use on tape drives that snarled up like this were:

1) Unload the device driver with "rmmod" - probably not possible here,
since it would be the NIC.
2) Put the machine into suspend/hibernate and then resume.

Once you've done that, even a SIGTERM might be sufficient to abort the
process.


I think we're looking at the wrong problem though; I'm more curious as to
why cp is being used for the copy instead of rsync, which is much more
tolerant of this kind of problem.  The OP said this was because "rsync was
too slow", but that's not my experience with cp vs rsync at all, especially
on subsequent copies. Perhaps a better angle of attack would be to see
what's taking so long using rsync?

-- 
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Re: ThinkPad microphone not working

[stan]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:30:37 +0200
suvayu ali  wrote:


> > Also try booting to an older kernel (from before the problem), if
> > you have one.
> >
> 
> I had tried this with no success. If it was a driver issue booting to
> a kernel from before the problem started should have worked, but it
> didn't.. But then I tried an old F15 Live USB (kernel 2.6.38), and it
> works! So my hardware is actually okay. :)

Excellent!

> It seems to me some bad settings are being cached somewhere; which
> would also explain why booting to an older kernel also fails. Do you
> have any ideas where these might be?

Do you have alsa-utils installed?  There is a program called alsactl in
that package that allows you to store sound device settings (as root),
and it says in the man page that it puts them in 
/var/lib/alsa/asound.state.
So you should be able to delete that file and alsa should then revert
to a default configuration and be settable.  If it then works, you can
use alsactl to save the working configuration. I'm not convinced this
will work, since it doesn't sound like you altered that file from when
it was working. But maybe something else changed it.

amixer is also in that package, lower level than alsamixer, to look at
all the settings. And you could try running the alsa-info.sh program
from the alsa web site,
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page 
to get a printout in prettier format than amixer.

If the above don't yield a solution to your problem, is it possible to
check the state file on the F15 live, and somehow get a copy of that
into your current installed OS?  Or run amixer or alsa-info.sh and look
at a diff with your current system.
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/14/2012 11:19 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

Exactly. The correct view of "kill -9" is not that you kill the process
but that you order the process to commit suicide. If it's not listening,
no amount of shouting is going to make a difference.


As another example, your CPU sometimes disables interrupts while it's 
processing one because what it's doing is too time-bound to be broken 
into.  If something happens and it hangs, even pushing the reset button 
(assuming your box has one) will work; it takes power cycling.  I had 
that happen, occasionally, when I was doing tech support and I'd have to 
tell callers to pull the power cord for a few seconds.  (It also 
happened to my own box once or twice, years ago.)  Once, the computer 
was a laptop and the caller had to go hunt up a screwdriver to take the 
battery out.

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/14/2012 11:42 AM, Andy Blanchard wrote:

In theory, yes, but the problem would be that the kernel would no longer
have any way of knowing what state the device being waited on is in.
Depending on the device that could be very bad news and potentially
result in trashed data.


I'd think that there'd have to be a special command, requiring root, to 
do it for exactly that reason.  There's no way you can safely automate 
that decision, and it's probably best if the average user doesn't have 
direct access to it; if nothing else, having to use either su or sudo 
along with a password (and possibly a confirmation dialog) would remind 
people that this isn't something you do lightly.  How it gets done, 
alas, is beyond me because I don't know enough about such things.

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.04.2012 20:55, schrieb Joe Zeff:
> Once, the computer was a laptop and the caller had to go hunt up a 
> screwdriver to take the battery out.

not really

every computer i know does a hard power-off pressing the power-button
for 5 seconds if all other things are failing



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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[My Usenet]

On 04/14/2012 01:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 14.04.2012 20:55, schrieb Joe Zeff:
>> Once, the computer was a laptop and the caller had to go hunt up a 
>> screwdriver to take the battery out.
> not really
>
> every computer i know does a hard power-off pressing the power-button
> for 5 seconds if all other things are failing
>
>
> Typically if you need to do a bios reset - then unplugging the battery
> will be helpful.  Of course you can also reset the CMOS by jumper at
> that point - but I don't see that being an issue in a page fault or
> any other likely multi-pipe error.  Everything that could cause such a
> fault would have to be post-mutex layer.  Resetting the machines power
> should take care of it - but this is a very strange error to be
> hypothesizing in the first place.  I'd be curious to know if both
> systems bash is of the same release or not.. 



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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Michael Hennebry]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012, Andy Blanchard wrote:


On 14 April 2012 19:26, Reindl Harald  wrote:



on the other hand i am missing understanding that there
is no root-command to kill such processes without
"their help"

the kernel should be able to kill anything
sounds like a missing interface for me



In theory, yes, but the problem would be that the kernel would no longer
have any way of knowing what state the device being waited on is in.
Depending on the device that could be very bad news and potentially result
in trashed data.


Of course the kernel has no way of knowing that the bad news has not already
happened and that continued waiting is not just making things worse.

It would seem sensible to be able to kill
any process that is not reset immune.
For that matter, it would seem sensible to be able to
kill any process that is not power button immune.
Perhaps kill --with-extreme-prejudice and kill --with-all-prejudice  .

Under what circumstance would killing a waiting process
be worse than a process that should have waited,
but terminated instead?

--
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"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword."  --  Lily
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/14/2012 12:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

every computer i know does a hard power-off pressing the power-button
for 5 seconds if all other things are failing


This was about ten or twelve years ago.  I'm not sure, but I might have 
even had them try that.  (Please note that even then, their laptop was 
so old that they needed a screwdriver to remove the battery.  Don't know 
what happened after that, as I ended the call and told them to call back 
after they'd gotten control of the computer back.)  I do know that when 
it happened to me at home, it didn't matter how long I held down the 
power button, nothing happened.  Only pulling the plug worked.  Still, 
it's nice to know that current computers don't have that problem.

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/14/2012 12:13 PM, My Usenet wrote:

Typically if you need to do a bios reset - then unplugging the battery
will be helpful.


I take it that you didn't bother to read my original post.  I was 
talking about a computer hanging while processing an interrupt with 
interrupts disabled.  Not something that's likely to happen because of a 
simple page fault or other error, or even at all.[1]  Think of it as a 
black swan: something that's not supposed to exist, but does, once in a 
great while.  Fixing it doesn't require a BIOS reset, just restarting 
the computer, and under the circumstances, that generally requires[2] 
pulling the plug.


[1]That's the type of bug that's supposed to be swatted before the BIOS 
goes into production.

[2]or did back when I was on the phones
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[jdow]

On 2012/04/14 12:30, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 04/14/2012 12:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

every computer i know does a hard power-off pressing the power-button
for 5 seconds if all other things are failing


This was about ten or twelve years ago. I'm not sure, but I might have even had
them try that. (Please note that even then, their laptop was so old that they
needed a screwdriver to remove the battery. Don't know what happened after that,
as I ended the call and told them to call back after they'd gotten control of
the computer back.) I do know that when it happened to me at home, it didn't
matter how long I held down the power button, nothing happened. Only pulling the
plug worked. Still, it's nice to know that current computers don't have that
problem.


I was about to comment a little more acerbicly that he's obviously a youngster.
Killing power used to be the only way to shut down a locked up computer with
ANY then available OS on it. I remember those bad old days too well.

{^_-}
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[jdow]

On 2012/04/14 12:37, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 04/14/2012 12:13 PM, My Usenet wrote:

Typically if you need to do a bios reset - then unplugging the battery
will be helpful.


I take it that you didn't bother to read my original post. I was talking about a
computer hanging while processing an interrupt with interrupts disabled. Not
something that's likely to happen because of a simple page fault or other error,
or even at all.[1] Think of it as a black swan: something that's not supposed to
exist, but does, once in a great while. Fixing it doesn't require a BIOS reset,
just restarting the computer, and under the circumstances, that generally
requires[2] pulling the plug.

[1]That's the type of bug that's supposed to be swatted before the BIOS goes
into production.
[2]or did back when I was on the phones


In today's terms with the momentary contact ON button the OFF feature, unless
disabled in the BIOS, will turn it off after 2 to 5 seconds camped on the
power button. As long as that is enabled in the BIOS it will perform a hard
shutdown. Of course, if the heart is racing sometimes it is wise to tell the
poor victim, hold it in for 30 seconds or until the computer shuts down. 5
seconds can often seem like an eternity. (Yes, I have met at least one BIOS
that had a "what do I do with the power button press" that could disable the
hard reboot.)

{^_^}
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/14/2012 12:25 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:

Under what circumstance would killing a waiting process
be worse than a process that should have waited,
but terminated instead?


I think that the idea is that if the process is in an uninterruptable 
sleep, it's for a good reason and the kernel is expected to assume that 
the programmer knew what he was doing and why.  Most of the time, that's 
a good assumption; in fact, almost always.  Alas, there's currently no 
way to override that on the very rare occasions that it's wrong.

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Andy Blanchard]

On 14 April 2012 20:06, Joe Zeff  wrote:

> I'd think that there'd have to be a special command, requiring root, to do
> it for exactly that reason.  There's no way you can safely automate that
> decision, and it's probably best if the average user doesn't have direct
> access to it; if nothing else, having to use either su or sudo along with a
> password (and possibly a confirmation dialog) would remind people that this
> isn't something you do lightly.  How it gets done, alas, is beyond me
> because I don't know enough about such things.


I'm not an expert at this low a level of the kernel either, but I think
that it would, in theory, be possible for the kernel to forcibly unload a
program, then try to cleanly close any open file handles and similar "tidy
up" operations.

That still leaves the problem of dealing the actual device which caused the
lockup in the first place, which is now in an unknown state. Depending on
what it is you might want to "offline" it until the next reboot, "reset" it
(rmmod, insmod), or even perform an immediate shutdown of the system.  In
many cases the kernel just isn't going to know the correct course of
action, especially if the device is remote or a more unusual peripheral.

Could get messy, and who is the user going to blame for *their* incorrect
call?  I'd assume that the current status quo is the safest bet with
regards to potential data loss.

-- 
Andy

*The only person to have all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe*
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Andy Blanchard]

On 14 April 2012 20:25, Michael Hennebry wrote:

>
> Under what circumstance would killing a waiting process
> be worse than a process that should have waited,
> but terminated instead?
>
>
Waiting for a timeout implies a reasonably sane state of affairs regarding
any data in transit, and if the worst has already happened then it's not
going to make any difference.  Either way, it forces the end user to make a
hopefully sensible decision about how to reset the device and recover from
the situation.

If, on the otherhand, you do a soft reset of the device and resume
transfering data...  Well, think about the garbage that can come out of a
printer when jobs go wrong, now imagine that being written to a hard disk,
tape drive, etc.

-- 
Andy

*The only person to have all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe*
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/14/2012 12:40 PM, jdow wrote:

As long as that is enabled in the BIOS it will perform a hard
shutdown. Of course, if the heart is racing sometimes it is wise to tell
the
poor victim, hold it in for 30 seconds or until the computer shuts down.


Back when I was on the phone, you sometimes needed to power down a 
computer, leave it off long enough for the RAM to go blank and then turn 
it on.  I never told them how long to leave their computer off; I had 
them turn it off, counted quietly to fifteen (or watched my watch) and 
then told them to turn it back on.  Probably, if I'd had to do what you 
suggest, I'd have them push AND HOLD the power button while I counted 
off the seconds.  The advantage, of course, is the fact that my emotions 
aren't involved, so I'm more likely to get the count right.


And, to comment on something in your other post, there was a time, when 
I was doing senior tech support, that I was very impatient with junior 
techs who didn't see, understand or do things I considered obvious. 
Then I realized that most of them didn't have the experience to be aware 
of these things and that it wasn't fair of me to expect them to know 
most of what I did.  I suspect that I was much, much easier to work with 
after that, although I'm sure that the Zoloft helped.

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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Andy Blanchard]

On 14 April 2012 20:37, jdow  wrote:

> I was about to comment a little more acerbicly that he's obviously a
> youngster.
> Killing power used to be the only way to shut down a locked up computer
> with
> ANY then available OS on it. I remember those bad old days too well.
>
> {^_-}


Shudder.   I remember those days too.

Of course, these days we thankfully have an excellent operating system
available that lets us perform a clean shutdown from all but the most
severe of lockups using a combination of "SysReq" and some other key. :)

-- 
Andy

*The only person to have all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe*
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Alan Cox]

> Under what circumstance would killing a waiting process
> be worse than a process that should have waited,
> but terminated instead?

When it leaves the system in an unstable state or where corruption could
follow. Far better then to leave that process stuck unless things sort
out.

In the case of NFS btw read the mount page for the "soft" and "intr"
options and also read about umount -f.

Alan
 
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Tom Horsley]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:11:36 +0100
Alan Cox wrote:

> In the case of NFS btw read the mount page for the "soft" and "intr"
> options and also read about umount -f.

One of my favorite near infinite hangs is a giant process that
decides to core dump across NFS. I don't know if it is still
the case, but once upon a time when linux started writing
a core file, it would never stop for any reason till it was
done.

When you do the math and find that it will take several days
to finish the core dump across the NFS link, pulling the plug
on the machine becomes the best option :-).
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Alan Cox]

> One of my favorite near infinite hangs is a giant process that
> decides to core dump across NFS. I don't know if it is still
> the case, but once upon a time when linux started writing
> a core file, it would never stop for any reason till it was
> done.

We fixed that one 8)

Alan
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Shane]

On 04/14/2012 04:11 PM, Alan Cox wrote:

Under what circumstance would killing a waiting process
be worse than a process that should have waited,
but terminated instead?

When it leaves the system in an unstable state or where corruption could
follow. Far better then to leave that process stuck unless things sort
out.


   But, drivers can also be reset.  And resetting a driver should, in 
theory, reset the hardware.  So a system should never be left in an 
unstable state.  But, what if there are other requests pending of that 
same hardware?  The only alternative is to invalidate those requests and 
issue an I/O error.  But the app-handlers should catch these and deal 
with them reasonably.


  Then there's the question of what could require an infinite amount of 
time for a driver to return?  How long will a human wait?  I can't think 
of a request that isn't bounded by some physical time limit except for a 
requested sleep alarm.  And I can't think of a request that I'm willing 
to wait on for 3 days.  There really shouldn't be a "wait-forever" state 
because that just means "wait until the user powers me off".  I think 
all states should be bounded.  At least bounded from the standpoint of 
returning to user-level for further action (either re-invocation of the 
wait or exiting).  Let the app-layer determine what to do if the lower 
level can't do something - the app-layer is free to re-invoke the kernel 
request.


  Shane

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F16: Webcam by Logitech (Orbicam) is not working

[antonio montagnani]

Installed F16 on a quite old laptop (Acer 5672WLMI) of a friend of mine 
replacing WinXp: everything is o.k., Fedora is running smoothly, the 
only problem is that the webcam is not recognized, also lsusb doesn't 
show anything.
I guess that webcam is a Logitech Orbicam, from the specification, also 
the hardware lister doesn't show anything.


Any clue??
--
Antonio M
Skype: amontag52

Linux Fedora F16 (Verne) on Acer 5720

http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
http://www.campingmonterosa.com
http://www.studiodacolpaloschi.it



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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Michael D. Setzer II]

On 14 Apr 2012 at 9:45, John Wendel wrote:

Date sent:  Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:45:50 -0700
From:   John Wendel 
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject:Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent 
processes

> On 04/14/2012 08:20 AM, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
> >> If you really would like to get output in sequence, write to a
> >> pipe, and have a reader process drain the pipe to a logfile.  It's
> >> pretty easy; look at "mknod" with the 'p' option, or "mkfifo".  I'd
> >> still suggest tagging each output line with an identifier and
> >> sequence number.
> >>
> > For the sake of the argument, assume I echo 500 As, 500 Bs and 500
> > Cs.
> >
> > I don't care which process the output is coming from. It doesn't
> > matter which order the As, Bs and Cs are output. All I care about is
> > that I don't get 349As followed by 245Bs, etc. I want to see blocks
> > of 500 each.
> >
> > I don't see how echoing into a pipe would change the problem.
> > Theoretically, if several processes (e.g. echo) are running in the
> > background, e.g. on a round robin basis, then potentially I could
> > see random sequences of As, Bs and Cs. It doesn't seem to be the
> > case in practice though. So which is it?
> >
> > This has to do with the operating system internals, it's not a
> > trivial question.
> >
> Actually it is semi-non-trivial. :-)
> 
> Unix/Linux makes the following guarantee ...
> 
> Multiple processes that open the same file for writing each maintain
> their own file positions, so they may overwrite the output of another
> process, unless the processes all open the file with the "O_APPEND"
> option. With the "O_APPEND" option, the system guarantees that the
> entire data from a single write by a process will be written to the
> end of the file as a indivisible block and will not be mixed with the
> output from another process. Without "O_APPEND", data from multiple
> processes may be intermixed in any order, or may seem to "disappear"
> (is overwritten by other data).
> 
> Of course, if you didn't write the code that is doing the output,
> you'll have to examine the source to see if it uses the "O_APPEND"
> open option. This may be non-trivial.
> 

Interesting thread. Did the following modified test to see what I 
would get, and at the end it does get 100 100 600 for the As, Bs, 
and Cs by using a file for the output instead of stdout. 

The resulting file does a somewhat random pattern of the 5 
character blocks. This was run on my quad core system.

#!/bin/bash
rm ./outtest
i=0
while [ $i -lt 100 ];
do
echo "A" >>./outtest &# e.g. 500 As
echo "B" >>./outtest & 
echo "C" >>./outtest & 

i=$(($i+1))
done
sleep 5
grep ^A ./outtest |wc
grep ^B ./outtest |wc
grep ^C ./outtest |wc



> Regards,
> 
> John
> 
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+--+
  Michael D. Setzer II -  Computer Science Instructor  
  Guam Community College  Computer Center  
  mailto:mi...@kuentos.guam.net
  mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
  http://www.guam.net/home/mikes
  Guam - Where America's Day Begins
  G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+--+

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu (Original)
Number of Seti Units Returned:  19,471
Processing time:  32 years, 290 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes
(Total Hours: 287,489)

BOINC@HOME CREDITS
SETI12076418.310558   |   EINSTEIN 7674404.639852
ROSETTA  4421834.189334   |   ABC 12313717.425001

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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Cameron Simpson]

On 14Apr2012 09:45, John Wendel  wrote:
| > I don't see how echoing into a pipe would change the problem.
| > Theoretically, if several processes (e.g. echo) are running in the
| > background, e.g. on a round robin basis, then potentially I could see
| > random sequences of As, Bs and Cs. It doesn't seem to be the case in
| > practice though. So which is it?

Writes certainly _used_ to be atomic unless they overflowed a buffer.
For example,

  echo 1 &
  echo 2 &

will always write "1\n" and "2\n" (in whichever order runs first) and
never interleave them.  500 "A"s shouldn't overflow a buffer either.

| > This has to do with the operating system internals, it's not a trivial
| > question.
| >
| Actually it is semi-non-trivial. :-)
| 
| Unix/Linux makes the following guarantee ...

Ireelevant promise:

| Multiple processes that open the same file for writing each maintain 
| their own file positions, so they may overwrite the output of another 
| process, unless the processes all open the file with the "O_APPEND" 
| option.

This only matters if the processes _independently_ opened the file.
So this:

  echo AAA >foo &
  echo BBB >foo &

pretty much _will_ overwrite each other. But the OP effectively has this:

  ( echo AAA &
echo BBB &
  ) >foo

Only _one_ open file handle in play. The writes may happen in either
order but they will _not_ overwrite each other because there is only one
file handle, and thus only one file position pointer.

| Of course, if you didn't write the code that is doing the output, you'll 
| have to examine the source to see if it uses the "O_APPEND" open option. 
| This may be non-trivial.

Not in the shell. This:

  echo AAA >>foo

uses O_APPEND.

But it is not the issue at hand.

Cheers,
-- 
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Reality is that which refuses to go away when I stop believing in it.
- Phillip K. Dick
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Re: F16: Webcam by Logitech (Orbicam) is not working

[Tommy Pham]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM, antonio montagnani
 wrote:
> Installed F16 on a quite old laptop (Acer 5672WLMI) of a friend of mine
> replacing WinXp: everything is o.k., Fedora is running smoothly, the only
> problem is that the webcam is not recognized, also lsusb doesn't show
> anything.
> I guess that webcam is a Logitech Orbicam, from the specification, also the
> hardware lister doesn't show anything.
>
> Any clue??
> --
> Antonio M
> Skype: amontag52
>
> Linux Fedora F16 (Verne) on Acer 5720
>
> http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
> http://www.campingmonterosa.com
> http://www.studiodacolpaloschi.it
>
>
>
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Search for uvc (USB Video Class) driver.  It may support your webcam
in question.

HTH,
Tommy
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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Amadeus W.M.]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:45:50 -0700, John Wendel wrote:

> On 04/14/2012 08:20 AM, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
>>> If you really would like to get output in sequence, write to a pipe,
>>> and have a reader process drain the pipe to a logfile.  It's pretty
>>> easy; look at "mknod" with the 'p' option, or "mkfifo".  I'd still
>>> suggest tagging each output line with an identifier and sequence
>>> number.
>>>
>> For the sake of the argument, assume I echo 500 As, 500 Bs and 500 Cs.
>>
>> I don't care which process the output is coming from. It doesn't matter
>> which order the As, Bs and Cs are output. All I care about is that I
>> don't get 349As followed by 245Bs, etc. I want to see blocks of 500
>> each.
>>
>> I don't see how echoing into a pipe would change the problem.
>> Theoretically, if several processes (e.g. echo) are running in the
>> background, e.g. on a round robin basis, then potentially I could see
>> random sequences of As, Bs and Cs. It doesn't seem to be the case in
>> practice though. So which is it?
>>
>> This has to do with the operating system internals, it's not a trivial
>> question.
>>
> Actually it is semi-non-trivial. :-)
> 
> Unix/Linux makes the following guarantee ...
> 
> Multiple processes that open the same file for writing each maintain
> their own file positions, so they may overwrite the output of another
> process, unless the processes all open the file with the "O_APPEND"
> option. With the "O_APPEND" option, the system guarantees that the
> entire data from a single write by a process will be written to the end
> of the file as a indivisible block and will not be mixed with the output
> from another process. Without "O_APPEND", data from multiple processes
> may be intermixed in any order, or may seem to "disappear" (is
> overwritten by other data).
> 
> Of course, if you didn't write the code that is doing the output, you'll
> have to examine the source to see if it uses the "O_APPEND" open option.
> This may be non-trivial.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John

Now we're getting somewhere. Any references for that? 

No, I didn't write the code and it's not echo, it's in fact curl. But >> 
instead of > should do, no?


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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Amadeus W.M.]

> 
> | Multiple processes that open the same file for writing each maintain |
> their own file positions, so they may overwrite the output of another |
> process, unless the processes all open the file with the "O_APPEND" |
> option.
> 
> This only matters if the processes _independently_ opened the file. So
> this:
> 
>   echo AAA >foo &
>   echo BBB >foo &
> 
> pretty much _will_ overwrite each other. But the OP effectively has
> this:
> 
>   ( echo AAA &
> echo BBB &
>   ) >foo
> 
> Only _one_ open file handle in play. The writes may happen in either
> order but they will _not_ overwrite each other because there is only one
> file handle, and thus only one file position pointer.
> 

This is a fine point and it does make sense. However, why do I not get 
all 100 blocks of As, 100 blocks of Bs, etc. The for loop has 100 
iterations, so there should be 100 lines each. 

Also, how would I know I'm overwriting the buffer. The output of each 
process (the echo in the example) is not 500 bytes but more like 30-40 
Kb, possibly more, but not Mb.


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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Amadeus W.M.]

> 
> [egreshko@meimei test]$ mkfifo pipe
> [egreshko@meimei test]$ ./io.sh > pipe
> 
> [egreshko@meimei test]$ cat pipe | grep ^A | wc
> 100 100 600
> 

It does seem to work, but can you explain why it does? Would it still 
work if each process outputs, say, 1Mb? 100Mb? 

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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Cameron Simpson]

On 15Apr2012 02:32, Amadeus W.M.  wrote:
| > | Multiple processes that open the same file for writing each maintain |
| > their own file positions, so they may overwrite the output of another |
| > process, unless the processes all open the file with the "O_APPEND" |
| > option.
| > 
| > This only matters if the processes _independently_ opened the file. So
| > this:
| >   echo AAA >foo &
| >   echo BBB >foo &
| > 
| > pretty much _will_ overwrite each other. But the OP effectively has
| > this:
| >   ( echo AAA &
| > echo BBB &
| >   ) >foo
| > 
| > Only _one_ open file handle in play. The writes may happen in either
| > order but they will _not_ overwrite each other because there is only one
| > file handle, and thus only one file position pointer.
| > 
| 
| This is a fine point and it does make sense. However, why do I not get 
| all 100 blocks of As, 100 blocks of Bs, etc. The for loop has 100 
| iterations, so there should be 100 lines each. 

I don't know yet. I need to test it out on my own system.

| Also, how would I know I'm overwriting the buffer. The output of each 
| process (the echo in the example) is not 500 bytes but more like 30-40 
| Kb, possibly more, but not Mb.

Sum the expected number of bytes for the file. Examine the file size.
If they differ then either overwriting is happening or the echoes are
not all successful. If the file is VERY small then it is probably
overwriting. But if it is roughtly the expected size then not all the
writes are making it to the file, so echo is writing incomplete data or
not all the echoes run.

BUT:

in another post you write:

  No, I didn't write the code and it's not echo, it's in fact curl.

Oh. You should have said that earlier. Curl will be doing multiple
writes (versus echo which will be doing only one).

  But >>
  instead of > should do, no?

Definitely yes. But again, that only matters if you had lots of curl
commands each with its own >> file open. But your code had one >> open
and lots of echoes (well, curls) using it.

Which is it? (Actually, both should work. But we need to know what is
actually goging on.)

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

BTW, this is an informal explanation, and if any linguists wish to point out
any fallacies, they are free to go and fuck themselves.
- pet...@visigoth.demon.co.uk (James Petts)
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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Cameron Simpson]

On 15Apr2012 02:36, Amadeus W.M.  wrote:
| > [egreshko@meimei test]$ mkfifo pipe
| > [egreshko@meimei test]$ ./io.sh > pipe
| > [egreshko@meimei test]$ cat pipe | grep ^A | wc
| > 100 100 600
| > 
| 
| It does seem to work, but can you explain why it does? Would it still 
| work if each process outputs, say, 1Mb? 100Mb? 

This is not functionally different to using a pipe on the command line,
btw.

What's happening with the pipe is that your grep does not see end of
file until _all_ the processes using the pipe (for write i.e. the curls)
have exited. So it sees all data.

if your script forks off lots of curls into a file and does not wait for
them all, then you may get to run the grep before they all finish, hence
the weird results.

Note that you can only wait for immediate children (whereas the pipe
does not show EOF until all attached processes have exited - that means
it works for non immediate children too).

Consider:

  for n in `seq 1 100`
  do  echo FOO &
  done >zot
  wait

All the echoes are immediate children of the shell. Wait works fine.

Versus:

  for n in `seq 1 100`
  do
( echo foo & )
  done
  wait

The echoes are grandchildren. Wait waits only for the subshells. The
subshells exits very quickly because they in turn are not waiting for
the echoes.

Versus:

  for n in `seq 1 100`
  do
( echo foo &
  wait
)
  done
  wait

and:

  for n in `seq 1 100`
  do
( echo foo &
  wait
) &
  done
  wait

Both wait for all their children correctly.

Then consider this:

  for n in `seq 1 100`
  do
{ echo foo & }
  done
  wait

All immediate children. Ok.

But:

  for n in `seq 1 100`
  do
{ echo foo & } | grep snot
  done
  wait

In this case the echo is running in a subshell (needed to make the
pipeline). The wait will not wait for the echoes. (However, the grep
won't exit until the echo exits anyway because it will not see EOF on
the pipe, so the script as a whole works anyway.)

The point here is that some control constructs, particularly pipelines
and subshells, run their commands as grandchildren, being children of
the subshell instead of the main script shell. Wait is only one level
deep.

Therefore we may need to see the real code.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

We're bad-t-the-bone! Bad-t-the-bone!
- Universally feared Denizen warcry,
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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/15/2012 10:36 AM, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
> It does seem to work, but can you explain why it does? Would it still 
> work if each process outputs, say, 1Mb? 100Mb? 

It works fine when i is set to 100.

I think I'll leave the explanations to Cameron, who is doing a *much* better 
job in
that department.

-- 
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the joke
of the century. -- Dame Edna Everage
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Re: Can't kill hung remote CP copy

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 20:26 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> Am 14.04.2012 20:19, schrieb Patrick O'Callaghan:
> >> When you do a "kill" you are sending a "signal" to a process and that 
> >> process will
> >> act upon it depending on the signal.  For example, if you did a "kill -1" 
> >> to the
> >> named process it will cause it to reread its configuration files and zone 
> >> files.
> >>
> >> Whatever process you send the kill to must be in a state where it can 
> >> receive and
> >> process the signal.
> > 
> > Exactly. The correct view of "kill -9" is not that you kill the process
> > but that you order the process to commit suicide. If it's not listening,
> > no amount of shouting is going to make a difference.
> 
> that is all correct
> 
> on the other hand i am missing understanding that there
> is no root-command to kill such processes without
> "their help"
> 
> the kernel should be able to kill anything
> sounds like a missing interface for me

Privilege has nothing to do with it. The process cannot be killed
because it is in a state where it will not wake up in order to process
the kill signal, which in turn is because it's waiting on something
which "has to happen". "D" state is meant for waiting on events which
will definitely happen and happen quickly, e.g. an interrupt signalling
completion of a DMA transfer; unfortunately most of the filesystem
interface was designed when the only filesystems were on
directly-attached disks and if an expected interrupt didn't happen then
you had a hardware issue. The problem arises when we try to apply this
to network-attached devices, where things are much more uncertain. We
want network disks to look like local disks to the applications
programmer, but once in a while reality has a way of intruding.

The non-interruptible nature of some states is a fundamental part of how
Unix/Linux processes work at the kernel level. Changing it would require
a radical redesign. Perhaps some of the real-time project work would be
relevant, but good luck getting that accepted into the mainline kernel.

poc

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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Amadeus W.M.]

> 
> if your script forks off lots of curls into a file and does not wait for
> them all, then you may get to run the grep before they all finish, hence
> the weird results.

If ioTest.sh is the original example I posted, I'm NOT doing this:

./ioTest.sh | grep ^A | wc -l

I am doing this:

./ioTest.sh > out  # go drink beer
grep ^A out | wc -l

All echos should have completed by the time I do grep. Yet I see fewer 
than 100 lines.

It does work if I append instead of write though.



> 
> Note that you can only wait for immediate children (whereas the pipe
> does not show EOF until all attached processes have exited - that means
> it works for non immediate children too).
> 
> Consider:
> 
>   for n in `seq 1 100`
>   do  echo FOO &
>   done >zot
>   wait
> 

With this exact script, it works for FOO (probably because it's short). 
For FOO...(1000 Os) I see again fewer than 100 lines in "zot". 
This, if I iterate 100 times. If I iterate, say, 10-20 times only, I seem 
to get all the lines. Can it have something to do with the number of jobs 
executed in the background?



The real code is like this:

#!/bin/bash

for url in $(cat myURLs)
do
curl -s $url &
done



I pipe the combined curl outputs to a program that parses the html and 
keeps track of something (I do pipe afterall). I could do that serially 
(without &), but parallel is better. I'm only spewing out some 20 network 
requests simultaneously and so far no warnings from verizon. I'm guessing 
if I do 1000, say, I might set off some alarms. But that's another 
problem.


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Re: off topic: combined output of concurrent processes

[Amadeus W.M.]

> Definitely yes. But again, that only matters if you had lots of curl
> commands each with its own >> file open. But your code had one >> open
> and lots of echoes (well, curls) using it.
> 
> Which is it? (Actually, both should work. But we need to know what is
> actually goging on.)

It's the latter, i.e. a single redirection for all curls. Redirection to 
a file was for examining the output only, cause it did cross my mind that 
the output might be messed up (although it didn't seem to, in practice). 
But as I mentioned in yet another post I'm piping the combined curls into 
a parser. Not separately.


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Re: F16: Webcam by Logitech (Orbicam) is not working

[antonio montagnani]

Tommy Pham ha scritto / said the followingil giorno/on 15/04/2012 01:13:

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM, antonio montagnani
  wrote:

Installed F16 on a quite old laptop (Acer 5672WLMI) of a friend of mine
replacing WinXp: everything is o.k., Fedora is running smoothly, the only
problem is that the webcam is not recognized, also lsusb doesn't show
anything.
I guess that webcam is a Logitech Orbicam, from the specification, also the
hardware lister doesn't show anything.

Any clue??
--
Antonio M
Skype: amontag52

Linux Fedora F16 (Verne) on Acer 5720

http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
http://www.campingmonterosa.com
http://www.studiodacolpaloschi.it



--




Search for uvc (USB Video Class) driver.  It may support your webcam
in question.

HTH,
Tommy


tnx

I don't understand why on my personal Acer (That is an Aspire5720) 
uvcvideo is loadedshall I have to try modprobe the driver???


--
Antonio M
Skype: amontag52

Linux Fedora F16 (Verne) on Acer 5720

http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
http://www.campingmonterosa.com
http://www.studiodacolpaloschi.it



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Re: F16: Webcam by Logitech (Orbicam) is not working

[Tommy Pham]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:24 PM, antonio montagnani
 wrote:
> Tommy Pham ha scritto / said the following    il giorno/on 15/04/2012 01:13:
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM, antonio montagnani
>>   wrote:
>>>
>>> Installed F16 on a quite old laptop (Acer 5672WLMI) of a friend of mine
>>> replacing WinXp: everything is o.k., Fedora is running smoothly, the only
>>> problem is that the webcam is not recognized, also lsusb doesn't show
>>> anything.
>>> I guess that webcam is a Logitech Orbicam, from the specification, also
>>> the
>>> hardware lister doesn't show anything.
>>>
>>> Any clue??
>>> --
>>> Antonio M
>>> Skype: amontag52
>>>
>>> Linux Fedora F16 (Verne) on Acer 5720
>>>
>>> http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
>>> http://www.campingmonterosa.com
>>> http://www.studiodacolpaloschi.it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>
>
>>
>> Search for uvc (USB Video Class) driver.  It may support your webcam
>> in question.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Tommy
>
>
> tnx
>
> I don't understand why on my personal Acer (That is an Aspire5720) uvcvideo
> is loadedshall I have to try modprobe the driver???

Did you do 'yum search uvc'?  I don't remember the off the top of my
head what packages you'll need but according to [1], it should support
your webcam:
046d:09b0   Acer OrbiCam (Acer notebooks)   Logitech

from [1] also:
Linux 2.6.26 and newer includes the Linux UVC driver natively. You
will not need to download the driver sources manually unless you want
to test a newer version or help with development.

the UVC 1.1.1 works for both my Logitech Quickcam STX, Orbit MP, and
Lenovo T420 integrated webcam.

HTH,
Tommy

[1] http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/


>
> --
> Antonio M
> Skype: amontag52
>
> Linux Fedora F16 (Verne) on Acer 5720
>
> http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
> http://www.campingmonterosa.com
> http://www.studiodacolpaloschi.it
>
>
>
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