Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 18:39 -0800, jack craig wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I regret to report that Moblin, my hope for a mobile linux, is dead. As someone alse already pointed out, Moblin is not dead. What is happening is that Moblin (intel-based) and Maemo (Arm-based) are merging to create MeeGo. MeeGo is supposed to have common lower layers, and alternative UX (User eXperience) layers. There will be UX layers for cell phones, tablets, netbooks, stationary media phones, and whatnot. MeeGo will use rpm as packaging mechanism. It will run X, have gtk support, but main GUI SDK will be QT. Given that it should support intel and arm and be based on rpm, is there some way fedora and MeeGo could interact? Could a platform with Intel and Nokia as sponsors cooperate with the huge Fedora community with RedHat as sponsor? Could Fedora become a development platform for both? It would certainly help defragment linux a bit. MeeGo is set to become the biggest linux on mobile devices if Nokia mean what they say: According to Ari Jaaksi, VP Nokia “We will put all our force behind making MeeGo THE operating system” and “Nokia will ship tons of MeeGo devices, Intel, too. And others will use MeeGo in their devices. It is open, free, powerful and compatible.” That said, I prefer running Fedora on my netbooks. I actually think there is no problem at all running a full gnome on a netbook. I usually remove the panels and install cairo-dock. I also make a few gui tweaks that I am used to doing on older hardware (getting rid of gradients in window borders and so on). Seriously, a netbook is more powerful than what I used to run linux on just 1-2 years ago. birger -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
On Tuesday 16 February 2010 04:52:10 Don Quixote de la Mancha wrote: > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Itamar Reis Peixoto > > in brazil the energy cost's alot of money, and arm don't wast energy, > > I am very happy with my Lord Sheeva running Fedora > > > > also reduced alot my eletric bill! > > Funny you should say that: I went to all kinds of effort and expense > to build the very most powerful Xeon box I could afford. > > What I didn't realize, was that it would generate so much heat that I > would not be able to tolerate its use with my window shut. The box is > in my bedroom; if I should fall asleep while it is running, I will > awaken drenched in sweat. You need to install an air conditioner. (sorry, couldn't resist... :-D ) Best, :-) Marko -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
Marko Vojinovic wrote: > On Tuesday 16 February 2010 04:52:10 Don Quixote de la Mancha wrote: > >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Itamar Reis Peixoto >> >>> in brazil the energy cost's alot of money, and arm don't wast energy, >>> I am very happy with my Lord Sheeva running Fedora >>> >>> also reduced alot my eletric bill! >>> >> Funny you should say that: I went to all kinds of effort and expense >> to build the very most powerful Xeon box I could afford. >> >> What I didn't realize, was that it would generate so much heat that I >> would not be able to tolerate its use with my window shut. The box is >> in my bedroom; if I should fall asleep while it is running, I will >> awaken drenched in sweat. >> > > You need to install an air conditioner. > > (sorry, couldn't resist... :-D ) > > In the winter time here in Taipei my dual Xeon system is my only source of heat -- Compliment, n.: When you say something to another which everyone knows isn't true. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
> (1) Curious about why you say Moblin is dead? I missed the announcement! > > (2) I'm writing this on a EeePC 1000HA (1GB, 160GB - but I'm using less > than 20G) running F12 very nicely. Moblin and Maemo are merging to produce one project using the best bits of each to produce a single distro www.meego.com I run Fedora/xfce/claws on my travelling netbook and its fast and useful. Not the quickest kernel compile box on the planet but that's not surprising. I do wish claws was better at handling slow imap links over mobile phone though. Alan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 01:38 -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > It's obvious you didn't even read my link. Please read my link. Bzzt, WRONG! Some other guy's comparison between two PCs that he has, bears no relation to a comparison of two PCs that I have. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Rawhide: How to confirm use of gallium with nouveau?
Rawhide provides 3D support for NVIDIA cards with the nouveau driver, via package mesa-dri-drivers-experimental. Is there a way to confirm that I'm using the gallium driver and not something else? glxinfo outputs the vendor as "nouveau" and I do get about 1000fps, but I thought I saw the vendor as "gallium" somewhere, rather than nouveau. Any ideas? Thanks, Chris -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
[slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
Hi, On 02/16/2010 02:58 PM, Alan Cox wrote: >> (1) Curious about why you say Moblin is dead? I missed the announcement! >> >> (2) I'm writing this on a EeePC 1000HA (1GB, 160GB - but I'm using less >> than 20G) running F12 very nicely. > > Moblin and Maemo are merging to produce one project using the best bits > of each to produce a single distro > > www.meego.com > Sorry for hijacking the thread but I wanted to point something out to the fedora folk out here who have not yet heard this -- MeeGo intends to use rpm instead of deb for package management (yay !). However, there's been a considerable amount of community bashing taking place out on the MeeGo mailing list by current Maemo community members who are partial to dpkg. A lot of the reasoning goes like this ...rpm has dependency issues ... ...rpm is slower than dpkg ... ...dpkg is more capable/stable/flexible than rpm ... Now, the reason I bring this up here is, I assume most people here have come to rely on and love yum (which is more like the front-end to something that, IMHO, most users don't use these days -- rpm). As a package management system, I think rpm is just as capable (if not more) than dpkg. However, the discussion on MeeGo is turning out to be very biased, with even an active dpkg maintainer chiming in with an offer to help (professionally too !) work out any possible issues related to adopting dpkg[1]. As someone who would love to work on MeeGo without having to try various hacks[2] to get a dev setup on a Fedora box, and also someone who would like to simply bring some balance in the conversation I mentioned, I request people with more rpm knowledge than mine to join the MeeGo list and participate in the thread. cheers, - steve [1] http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-February/85.html [2] http://blog.gbraad.nl/2009/11/maemo-5-sdk-on-fedora-12.html Although it might have worked when that post was written, the present installer script of the maemo sdk is broken on fedora because it first checks for apt, and if that fails, just works with .tgz archives but still makes a lot of assumptions about the install environment: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34924&page=2 -- random non tech spiel: http://lonetwin.blogspot.com/ tech randomness: http://lonehacks.blogspot.com/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Rawhide: How to confirm use of gallium with nouveau?
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Chris Smart wrote: > > Any ideas? Nevermind, I found where I saw it. Vendor should be nouveau, but the renderer should be "Gallium3D" which mine is. For anyone interested, KDE desktop effects don't work - at least not with my GT8800 card. Thanks. -c -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 18:39 -0800, jack craig wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I regret to report that Moblin, my hope for a mobile linux, is dead. What's your source for this? > My hw is Asus, EeePC 1000, 1GB ram, 40GB disk. > > Anyone running FC (11 maybe?) on hw like this? Running F12 on an EEEPC 1000 with 2GB RAM and 160GB disk. Works fine. I can even run Windows 7 under VirtualBox (slow but usable in an emergency). poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Sendmail help sought
Tim wrote: > I'm not talking about IP addresses, I mean email addresses. Presume > that I am t...@localhost on my machine, and I masquerade my mail to > change localhost to the domain name of my ISP (e.g. example.com), and I > (now) send out my mail as t...@example.com, to save me from configuring > my mail clients. But, *I* shouldn't do that, because I am not user > "tim" on my ISP, some other person has that ISP mail account. That is exactly my problem. I am "tim" on my own machines, but "gayle...@eircom.net" to my ISP. > Masquerading has to be done with due care, as with just about all > aspects of running a mail server attached to the public internet. I must admit I am still not clear about the purpose of masquerading. What is a concrete situation where it might make sense? Incidentally, I don't think I am running a mail SERVER as I understand that term. I collect all my email from external mail servers with fetchmail . -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 5:08 AM, steve wrote: > Hi, > > On 02/16/2010 02:58 PM, Alan Cox wrote: >>> (1) Curious about why you say Moblin is dead? I missed the announcement! >>> >>> (2) I'm writing this on a EeePC 1000HA (1GB, 160GB - but I'm using less >>> than 20G) running F12 very nicely. >> >> Moblin and Maemo are merging to produce one project using the best bits >> of each to produce a single distro >> >> www.meego.com >> > Sorry for hijacking the thread but I wanted to point something out to the > fedora > folk out here who have not yet heard this -- MeeGo intends to use rpm instead > of > deb for package management (yay !). If after developing for your favorite open source project for years the company "sponsoring" that project decided tomorrow that it was merging with another project and you would need to switch to a different packaging system I suspect your reaction would be different. > However, there's been a considerable amount of community bashing taking place > out on the MeeGo mailing list by current Maemo community members who are > partial > to dpkg. A lot of the reasoning goes like this > > ...rpm has dependency issues ... > ...rpm is slower than dpkg ... > ...dpkg is more capable/stable/flexible than rpm ... While it is true that there is a fair number of silly arguments about the technical merits of the change, the real problem is that there was no transparency in the decision process leading to the change. There was no explanation that I have seen even stating clearly why the change is being made. I'm guessing it is related to LSB issues and the decision to have The Linux Foundation direct the project. Rather than adopting Fedora's package management system what Nokia has needed from the very beginning of maemo was to adopt Fedora's community model. Even if this merger somehow turns out well for its target audience I think it is a very sad display of the mismanagement of an open source project. John -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
How to move my / partition
I want to move the / partition on a (very ancient) Fedora-12 desktop from one SCSI disk to another (/dev/sdb3 to /dev/sda6), because the second disk is showing some signs of sickness. Is there any safe way of doing this while the machine is running? Unfortunately the CD drive does not appear to be working, and the machine (an Asus-P2B-LS) does not support booting from USB. I could download and install something like Knoppix, if it is possible to boot from it with grub? Any help or suggestions gratefully received. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: weird F12 printing problem
On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 20:32 -0500, fred smith wrote: > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 05:46:25PM -0600, Aaron Konstam wrote: > > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 11:20 -0500, fred smith wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 04:12:54PM +, Tim Waugh wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 04:07 -0800, Mike Cloaked wrote: > > > > > > I don't know if this will help but sometimes I have found that a > > > > > > printer > > > > > > seems to be shared according to the Fedora printer admin interface > > > > > > but > > > > > > does not work - in this situation going to localhost:631 in a > > > > > > browser and > > > > > > selecting that the printer concerned is "published" as a shared > > > > > > printer > > > > > > usually sorts this out for me. > > > > > > > > For a CUPS printer to be usable by another machine, you need: > > > > > > > > 1. the printer to be marked as 'Shared' (the Printer-> Shared checkbox) > > > > 2. the CUPS server to 'Publish shared printers' (Server-> Settings...-> > > > > Public shared printers connected to this system) > > > > 3. the firewall settings on the server to allow 'Network Printing > > > > Server' > > > > 4. the firewall settings on the client to allow 'Network Printing > > > > Client' > > > > > > > > Tim. > > > > */ > > > > > > > > > > It's NOT a shared printer. it is attached to the LAN with its own IP > > > address. > > Even so it needs to shared on the server that is distributing its > > services to the rest of the machines. Or are you connecting it to each > > computer independently. In my opinion that is a bad idea and can cause > > the problem you report. > > It only needs to be shared if all the other computers are printing > via that share. > > Since they AREN'T, it doesn't need to be shared. > > the printer supports lpd, ipp/http, jetdirect, and probably a handful > of other printing protocols, so it contains its own spool manager > and works just peachy when all computers print directly to it. But as you report it does not run peachy from one machine. I agree the printer can be printed to directly. I am just saying it sometimes causes problems as you have reported. In my opinion even on a home LAN having one of you machines as a print server is a good idea. I have done it your way and caused a big mess. The biggest problem with your approach is that when the printer environment is done your way configurations on all the machines have to be changed rather than only on one server machine. > > it spends about 99.999% of its time sitting idle. we don't print much > here, and I doubt we've ever had two different systems printing to it > at the same time. but even if we did, it would be expected to work fine, > given its internal print spooling implementations. > -- === If we see the light at the end of the tunnel, it's the light of an oncoming train. -- Robert Lowell === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: weird F12 printing problem
On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 14:01 +1030, Tim wrote: > fred smith: > >> It's NOT a shared printer. it is attached to the LAN with its own IP > >> address. > > Aaron Konstam: > > Even so it needs to shared on the server that is distributing its > > services to the rest of the machines. Or are you connecting it to each > > computer independently. > > No, that's not how such network printers work. They are their own > network device, their own print server. They don't need to have a host > computer. > They don't have to but they should to avoid headaches. -- === Psychiatry is the care of the id by the odd. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
inode0 wrote: > If after developing for your favorite open source project for years > the company "sponsoring" that project decided tomorrow that it was > merging with another project and you would need to switch to a > different packaging system I suspect your reaction would be different. Grown men, some of which have been Debian users/developers since its inception, are bickering over this non-issue. It's a very fun thread to follow on how not to handle a serious situation. > While it is true that there is a fair number of silly arguments about > the technical merits of the change, the real problem is that there was > no transparency in the decision process leading to the change. There > was no explanation that I have seen even stating clearly why the > change is being made. I'm guessing it is related to LSB issues and the > decision to have The Linux Foundation direct the project. It's been explained. The Moblin part of the merger is being used over the Maemo part. Simple as that. > > Rather than adopting Fedora's package management system what Nokia has > needed from the very beginning of maemo was to adopt Fedora's > community model. Everyone's tied up with RPM vs. Deb that they can't think straight. It's a big e-peen war that's not going to stop any time soon. The community will be at a loss due to the bike-shedding that will continue for months. > > Even if this merger somehow turns out well for its target audience I > think it is a very sad display of the mismanagement of an open source > project. MeeGo is a *brand-new* project run by two businesses that want to get started and produce a device with MeeGo in a few months. Should they have started at ground zero and asked "What glibc do you want? What shell do you want? What package system do you want?" That would have pushed them past 2010 to getting a 1.0 version out with the level of bickering already present. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: weird F12 printing problem
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 09:08:40AM -0600, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 20:32 -0500, fred smith wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 05:46:25PM -0600, Aaron Konstam wrote: > > > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 11:20 -0500, fred smith wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 04:12:54PM +, Tim Waugh wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 04:07 -0800, Mike Cloaked wrote: > > > > > > > I don't know if this will help but sometimes I have found that a > > > > > > > printer > > > > > > > seems to be shared according to the Fedora printer admin > > > > > > > interface but > > > > > > > does not work - in this situation going to localhost:631 in a > > > > > > > browser and > > > > > > > selecting that the printer concerned is "published" as a shared > > > > > > > printer > > > > > > > usually sorts this out for me. > > > > > > > > > > For a CUPS printer to be usable by another machine, you need: > > > > > > > > > > 1. the printer to be marked as 'Shared' (the Printer-> Shared > > > > > checkbox) > > > > > 2. the CUPS server to 'Publish shared printers' (Server-> > > > > > Settings...-> > > > > > Public shared printers connected to this system) > > > > > 3. the firewall settings on the server to allow 'Network Printing > > > > > Server' > > > > > 4. the firewall settings on the client to allow 'Network Printing > > > > > Client' > > > > > > > > > > Tim. > > > > > */ > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's NOT a shared printer. it is attached to the LAN with its own IP > > > > address. > > > Even so it needs to shared on the server that is distributing its > > > services to the rest of the machines. Or are you connecting it to each > > > computer independently. In my opinion that is a bad idea and can cause > > > the problem you report. > > > > It only needs to be shared if all the other computers are printing > > via that share. > > > > Since they AREN'T, it doesn't need to be shared. > > > > the printer supports lpd, ipp/http, jetdirect, and probably a handful > > of other printing protocols, so it contains its own spool manager > > and works just peachy when all computers print directly to it. > But as you report it does not run peachy from one machine. I agree the > printer can be printed to directly. I am just saying it sometimes causes > problems as you have reported. In my opinion even on a home LAN having > one of you machines as a print server is a good idea. I have done it > your way and caused a big mess. > > The biggest problem with your approach is that when the printer > environment is done your way configurations on all the machines have to > be changed rather than only on one server machine. that's true. it's a two-sided coin here: one way requires every machine to be tweaked if I change printers; the other way makes all printing depend on a single machine being up and working. I chose one side of the coin rather than the other. In a larger environment I might have gone the other way. as it is it's no more than six(-ish) computers. > > > > it spends about 99.999% of its time sitting idle. we don't print much > > here, and I doubt we've ever had two different systems printing to it > > at the same time. but even if we did, it would be expected to work fine, > > given its internal print spooling implementations. > > > > > > -- > === > If we see the light at the end of the tunnel, it's the light of an > oncoming train. -- Robert Lowell > === > Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net > > -- > users mailing list > users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines -- Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us - The Lord is like a strong tower. Those who do what is right can run to him for safety. --- Proverbs 18:10 (niv) - -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: How to move my / partition
> I want to move the / partition on a (very ancient) Fedora-12 desktop > from one SCSI disk to another (/dev/sdb3 to /dev/sda6), > because the second disk is showing some signs of sickness. > > Is there any safe way of doing this while the machine is running? > Unfortunately the CD drive does not appear to be working, > and the machine (an Asus-P2B-LS) does not support booting from USB. > > I could download and install something like Knoppix, > if it is possible to boot from it with grub? > > Any help or suggestions gratefully received. > If your system is still working well enough this is not too difficult. First download a CD image for F12 for your architecture--the netinstall CD is pretty small and any of them are sufficient. Then mount the image and grab the kernel and initrd from the isolinux partition and put them in your /boot partition (if they names conflict, change appropriately). Next update your grub.conf file to add an entry to boot this image/initrd. Add 'rescue' to the kernel line so it will boot in that mode. Alternately you can type that in when you boot. The entry will look something like this: title Fedora Rescue root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz rescue initrd /initrd.img When you boot this you will be running in RAM with the tools you need to do what you want. Don't have it mount your existing system--just get into a shell to do the dirty work. Assuming you are using lvm for your /dev/sdb3, you can do something along these lines (from memory--check syntax): pvcreate /dev/sda6 vgextend vg_your_vg /dev/sda3 pvmove /dev/sdb3 /dev/sda6 pvremove /dev/sdb3 I may be missing a step or two, but this idea works fine--I just had to do it myself and the main problem I had was reducing the size of a LV so it would fit on the new partition. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2691 - Release Date: 02/16/10 07:35:00 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
On 02/15/2010 07:31 PM, Chris Tyler wrote: > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 18:39 -0800, jack craig wrote: >> Hi Folks, >> >> I regret to report that Moblin, my hope for a mobile linux, is dead. >> >> My hw is Asus, EeePC 1000, 1GB ram, 40GB disk. >> >> Anyone running FC (11 maybe?) on hw like this? > > Hi Jack, > > (1) Curious about why you say Moblin is dead? I missed the announcement! see maemo.org > > (2) I'm writing this on a EeePC 1000HA (1GB, 160GB - but I'm using less > than 20G) running F12 very nicely. excellent! thx! > > -Chris > -- jack craig ja...@linuxlighthouse.com 831-684-1375 (Office) 831-596-6924 (cell) IM: jackcraigaptos (AIM) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: How to move my / partition
On 02/16/2010 08:29 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > I want to move the / partition on a (very ancient) Fedora-12 desktop > from one SCSI disk to another (/dev/sdb3 to /dev/sda6), > because the second disk is showing some signs of sickness. > > Is there any safe way of doing this while the machine is running? > Unfortunately the CD drive does not appear to be working, > and the machine (an Asus-P2B-LS) does not support booting from USB. > > I could download and install something like Knoppix, > if it is possible to boot from it with grub? > > Any help or suggestions gratefully received. > You may want to take a look at the gparted project - they have hard drive install documentation as well, as CD/USB/PXE boot images. http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livehd.php Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: How to move my / partition
On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 14:29 +, Timothy Murphy wrote: > I want to move the / partition on a (very ancient) Fedora-12 desktop > from one SCSI disk to another (/dev/sdb3 to /dev/sda6), > because the second disk is showing some signs of sickness. > > Is there any safe way of doing this while the machine is running? > Unfortunately the CD drive does not appear to be working, > and the machine (an Asus-P2B-LS) does not support booting from USB. > > I could download and install something like Knoppix, > if it is possible to boot from it with grub? > > Any help or suggestions gratefully received. Hi Timothy, If your / filesystem is on a logical volume, which is the default for F12 installations, you can move it easily: - Add the new disk. - Partition the disk (optional but recommended). One partition is fine, or if you're going to also boot from this disk, then create a new /boot partition as well. (fdisk) - Make the new partition a physical volume (PV). (pvcreate) - Add the PV to your volumg group (VG). (vgextend) - Tell your system to migrate your data off the old PV (pvmove) - When complete, tell the system to take the old PV out of the VG (vgreduce). - Optional - if desired, remove the PV metadata from the old PV (pvremove). Except for physically adding and removing the drives, these steps can be performed while the system is running, either from the command line or using the system-config-lvm GUI. Finally, set up your /boot partition and reset your grub configuration, and you should be good to go. As when performing any disk administration, backups are your safety net. -Chris -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > inode0 wrote: >> If after developing for your favorite open source project for years >> the company "sponsoring" that project decided tomorrow that it was >> merging with another project and you would need to switch to a >> different packaging system I suspect your reaction would be different. > > Grown men, some of which have been Debian users/developers since its > inception, are bickering over this non-issue. It's a very fun thread to > follow on how not to handle a serious situation. I think it is largely misdirected angst resulting from the poor community management practices that result in sudden changes like this dropping out of a corporate news release one morning. >> While it is true that there is a fair number of silly arguments about >> the technical merits of the change, the real problem is that there was >> no transparency in the decision process leading to the change. There >> was no explanation that I have seen even stating clearly why the >> change is being made. I'm guessing it is related to LSB issues and the >> decision to have The Linux Foundation direct the project. > > It's been explained. The Moblin part of the merger is being used over > the Maemo part. Simple as that. Did they flip a coin? That is the way it worked out, that isn't a reason. >> Rather than adopting Fedora's package management system what Nokia has >> needed from the very beginning of maemo was to adopt Fedora's >> community model. > > Everyone's tied up with RPM vs. Deb that they can't think straight. It's > a big e-peen war that's not going to stop any time soon. The community > will be at a loss due to the bike-shedding that will continue for months. Sad but true and the result of Nokia not understanding how to work with an open source community. >> Even if this merger somehow turns out well for its target audience I >> think it is a very sad display of the mismanagement of an open source >> project. > > MeeGo is a *brand-new* project run by two businesses that want to get > started and produce a device with MeeGo in a few months. Should they > have started at ground zero and asked "What glibc do you want? What > shell do you want? What package system do you want?" That would have > pushed them past 2010 to getting a 1.0 version out with the level of > bickering already present. It if were brand new they could do whatever they pleased to create it. But it isn't brand new. And it isn't just two businesses who can tell their paid staff what to work on tomorrow. Does Fedora bicker over which shell it wants? Does Red Hat require the shell to be bash? Who makes that decision? This is getting as silly as the arguments over rpm now. I think if we compare how Fedora's "corporate sponsor" has gone about helping to create, foster, and empower its community and compare that with the Nokia/maemo relationship there are valuable things to be learned. John -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
thunderbird 3.0 filters and tagging
Does anyone use a combination of filters to tag messages? I attempted to set one up today, but it doesn't tag the messages I created filters for. I wanted to see if I was missing something before filing a bug. Thanks, Michael -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
inode0 wrote: > It if were brand new they could do whatever they pleased to create it. > But it isn't brand new. And it isn't just two businesses who can tell > their paid staff what to work on tomorrow. How long has MeeGo be around for? > Does Fedora bicker over > which shell it wants? Does Red Hat require the shell to be bash? Who > makes that decision? This is getting as silly as the arguments over > rpm now. Precisely what I was driving at. > > I think if we compare how Fedora's "corporate sponsor" has gone about > helping to create, foster, and empower its community and compare that > with the Nokia/maemo relationship there are valuable things to be > learned. > I couldn't agree with you more, but there is hope in that Nokia is pairing up on the effort and wishes to expand (explore?). -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Sendmail help sought
On 02/16/2010 08:21 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > Tim wrote: > >> I'm not talking about IP addresses, I mean email addresses. Presume >> that I am t...@localhost on my machine, and I masquerade my mail to >> change localhost to the domain name of my ISP (e.g. example.com), and I >> (now) send out my mail as t...@example.com, to save me from configuring >> my mail clients. But, *I* shouldn't do that, because I am not user >> "tim" on my ISP, some other person has that ISP mail account. > But you can configure it so that t...@localhost gets mapped to gayle...@eircom.net bu your mail server. It is also possible to map all users except for specific ones to all go out as gayle...@eircom.net. Normally root does not get changed. I don't remember if postmaster does. > That is exactly my problem. > I am "tim" on my own machines, but "gayle...@eircom.net" to my ISP. > >> Masquerading has to be done with due care, as with just about all >> aspects of running a mail server attached to the public internet. > > I must admit I am still not clear about the purpose of masquerading. > What is a concrete situation where it might make sense? > You have a local network network that sends all outside mail through one mail server. The internal mail address may be something like lab1.foo.net, but mail headed for the Internet must be from foo.net or even bar.net in order for return messages to reach the proper mail server. For a home network, you may want different local accounts to go out through different ISP's mail servers. The need for running a masquerading mail server on a home system has become rare with the use of always on broadband connections. Also. mail clients like Thunderbird send the outgoing messages directly to the proper mail server without any name re-writing being necessary. For home networks, there is seldom a need for the local mail server to connect ot the Internet at all. > Incidentally, I don't think I am running a mail SERVER > as I understand that term. > I collect all my email from external mail servers with fetchmail . > > By default, Fedora runs Sendmail to handle locally generated mail from things like cron jobs. Depending how you have Fetchmail set up, it may also handle delivering the messages that Fetchmail gets. Fetchmail can be configured to rewrite fetched mail to a local mail address. One final note - for most home networks, Sendmail is overkill - you don't need most of the features. You may want to look into one of the lighter alternatives. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: thunderbird 3.0 filters and tagging
On 02/16/2010 10:23 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > Does anyone use a combination of filters to tag messages? I attempted to > set one up today, but it doesn't tag the messages I created filters for. > I wanted to see if I was missing something before filing a bug. > Could you give us a better idea of what you are trying to do? It may be that you are going about it the wrong way. For example, I have one filter rule that requires that the message pass 2 tests, and then has two actions preformed on it. One is to tag the message, and the other is to move it to another folder. Remember, you can require that the message passes all, the tests, or any one of several tests. You can also that run at specific stages of mail handling, or are only run manually. Also, the order that you run the filters is important - you can have a case were a rule that is run ahead of your filter redirects the message so your filter never sees it. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: thunderbird 3.0 filters and tagging
Mikkel wrote: > Could you give us a better idea of what you are trying to do? It may > be that you are going about it the wrong way. > > For example, I have one filter rule that requires that the message > pass 2 tests, and then has two actions preformed on it. One is to > tag the message, and the other is to move it to another folder. > Remember, you can require that the message passes all, the tests, or > any one of several tests. You can also that run at specific stages > of mail handling, or are only run manually. Also, the order that you > run the filters is important - you can have a case were a rule that > is run ahead of your filter redirects the message so your filter > never sees it. Doh! It was set to "match all" instead of "match any". Thanks. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: weird F12 printing problem
On 02/16/2010 09:10 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 14:01 +1030, Tim wrote: >> No, that's not how such network printers work. They are their own >> network device, their own print server. They don't need to have a host >> computer. >> > They don't have to but they should to avoid headaches. > Not really - you avoid one possible headache, but introduce another one. If the network printer has a built-in print server, and I would expect it to, it will easily handle being fed more then one job at a time. Depending on the amount of memory it has, it may be able to spool more then one job at a time. When you get into the larger commercial printers, then can handle spooling many jobs at the same time, with a different print queue for different paper trays, or different types of paper. Remember, most machines have a local print queue now days, and adding another machine to act as a print server adds another failure point and increases network traffic. This is one of those questions that the answer is "It depends on your needs, and how you use your network." Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?
Wow! i fired this email off when i got home last night and it stirred quite an exchange. however, a bit of background will show my reaction is not a knee-jerk on my part, just the culmination of a path turning sour. i used to work for danger before M$ bought it out. i enjoyed the mobile sidekick platform we provided despite its targeted youth market. its use for google/email on the go was Great! this is what i must have in my truck. when i later got laid off last spring, i decided to look for a way to use Linux in a similar portable form factor. after some looking about, the hot setup seemed to be a netbook and moblin. i chose moblin as i reasoned that backed by Intel (motivated by atom sales) should be a solid platform/open src steward to begin on. i selected a product direction of OBD to USB reasoning there may be a few gearheads in the fedora crowd that should also enjoy a window to their automotive computers. the project kept me busy all summer while i looked for new work. however, i was less than overwhelmed by the moblin desktop. in a landscape precious screen, they dedicate 1/3 to twitter/social networking(waste), 1/3 to the last jpg's i've looked at (yawn), and a paltry 1/3 for my desktop with icons & calendar space. 1/3 is not enough. i really just want a mobile fedora; i have it at home & work, i use it, i like it. as for meetoo, err, meego, its just another social centric os trying to compete with M$ products yet to be released. i hate a deployment that hides all the behind the scenes stuff i want to know about. moblin died for me because it failed to live up to my needs. my next posts will focus on adapting fc11 to a small form factor. thx again to all that reported using fc on the eeepc. as for meego, you and the kids have fun, i got work to do. On 02/16/2010 12:12 AM, birger wrote: > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 18:39 -0800, jack craig wrote: >> Hi Folks, >> >> I regret to report that Moblin, my hope for a mobile linux, is dead. > > As someone alse already pointed out, Moblin is not dead. > > What is happening is that Moblin (intel-based) and Maemo (Arm-based) are > merging to create MeeGo. > > MeeGo is supposed to have common lower layers, and alternative UX (User > eXperience) layers. There will be UX layers for cell phones, tablets, > netbooks, stationary media phones, and whatnot. > > MeeGo will use rpm as packaging mechanism. It will run X, have gtk > support, but main GUI SDK will be QT. > > Given that it should support intel and arm and be based on rpm, is there > some way fedora and MeeGo could interact? Could a platform with Intel > and Nokia as sponsors cooperate with the huge Fedora community with > RedHat as sponsor? Could Fedora become a development platform for both? > It would certainly help defragment linux a bit. > > MeeGo is set to become the biggest linux on mobile devices if Nokia mean > what they say: According to Ari Jaaksi, VP Nokia “We will put all our > force behind making MeeGo THE operating system” and “Nokia will ship > tons of MeeGo devices, Intel, too. And others will use MeeGo in their > devices. It is open, free, powerful and compatible.” > > That said, I prefer running Fedora on my netbooks. I actually think > there is no problem at all running a full gnome on a netbook. I usually > remove the panels and install cairo-dock. I also make a few gui tweaks > that I am used to doing on older hardware (getting rid of gradients in > window borders and so on). Seriously, a netbook is more powerful than > what I used to run linux on just 1-2 years ago. > > birger > -- jack craig ja...@linuxlighthouse.com 831-684-1375 (Office) 831-596-6924 (cell) IM: jackcraigaptos (AIM) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > inode0 wrote: >> It if were brand new they could do whatever they pleased to create it. >> But it isn't brand new. And it isn't just two businesses who can tell >> their paid staff what to work on tomorrow. > > How long has MeeGo be around for? This is semantics. Merging and renaming two existing things makes something new out of something that already exists. There wouldn't be any problem if it weren't for yanking an existing community from something they have been contributing to for years into something else with a press release. >> Does Fedora bicker over >> which shell it wants? Does Red Hat require the shell to be bash? Who >> makes that decision? This is getting as silly as the arguments over >> rpm now. > > Precisely what I was driving at. But Fedora doesn't bicker about this. Red Hat doesn't mandate this. Fedora as a community makes the decision. So why are we discussing it at all? Having transparent governance and community decision making does not mean bickering about such things. >> I think if we compare how Fedora's "corporate sponsor" has gone about >> helping to create, foster, and empower its community and compare that >> with the Nokia/maemo relationship there are valuable things to be >> learned. >> > > I couldn't agree with you more, but there is hope in that Nokia is > pairing up on the effort and wishes to expand (explore?). This sentiment I think everyone shared in the beginning. Give Nokia time to learn its way. But they began with old mistakes (core controlled by them and the community contributing on the edges, sound familiar?) and continue with a governance model that guarantees a dysfunctional community that at each sudden jerk feels used. Hope may spring eternal but eventually people get discouraged. John -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
inode0 wrote: > This is semantics. Merging and renaming two existing things makes > something new out of something that already exists. There wouldn't be > any problem if it weren't for yanking an existing community from > something they have been contributing to for years into something else > with a press release. You and I just think differently. People think differently. Thank goodness. > But Fedora doesn't bicker about this. Red Hat doesn't mandate this. > Fedora as a community makes the decision. So why are we discussing it > at all? Having transparent governance and community decision making > does not mean bickering about such things. The problem is communication. With Maemo there was none. I can't say much for Moblin as I haven't been involved at all. > This sentiment I think everyone shared in the beginning. Give Nokia > time to learn its way. But they began with old mistakes (core > controlled by them and the community contributing on the edges, sound > familiar?) and continue with a governance model that guarantees a > dysfunctional community that at each sudden jerk feels used. Hope may > spring eternal but eventually people get discouraged. Yes, they are starting out the "same" but you should really Google or read through some recent (as of this month) posts by @nokia folk that have posted road maps and such that detail an overhaul of what they want to accomplish. I'm holding out hope they follow that plan. You're free to think Nokia won't change. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
/etc/pki certificate questions
I wondered where I can find fedora information regarding the cert files placed in: /etc/pki directory. Apparently, there is tls/certs/localhost.pem and tls/private/localhost.key; are these two files required? I also noticed that installing certain servers such as sendmail, spamd, imap, ... creates the pem/crl/key certs, but they contain default (otherwise incorrect [example.com]) certificate information? As for sendmail, I cd'd into the certs directory, issued: make sendmail.pem and enabled the SSL in sendmail.mc file, but apparently, I can no longer log into sendmail (Thunderbird keeps requesting the password) in order to send outgoing email messages, so I am wondering if "localhost" is involved somehow? I would like to rebuild these [self-signed] certificates so that they contain correct servers certificates, notably dovecot, sendmail, spamd, and lastly "localhost", if this is required? Does anyone recommend a very good site for dealing with the above issues? Kind regards, Dan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
On 02/16/2010 09:16 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > > Yes, they are starting out the "same" but you should really Google or > read through some recent (as of this month) posts by @nokia folk that i did! it was full of resentful/fearful n900 & n800 users fearing orphanages for their Nokia hw. talking heads can blabber all the marketing speak they want, but its the end user/developer whose opinion matters to me... i am not putting my trust in Nokia. for that matter, i'll be real leery of trusting Intel again, so much for stewardship! Not! > have posted road maps and such that detail an overhaul of what they want > to accomplish. I'm holding out hope they follow that plan. You're free > to think Nokia won't change. -- jack craig ja...@linuxlighthouse.com 831-684-1375 (Office) 831-596-6924 (cell) IM: jackcraigaptos (AIM) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
jack craig wrote: > i did! it was full of resentful/fearful n900& n800 users fearing > orphanages for their Nokia hw. > > talking heads can blabber all the marketing speak they want, but > its the end user/developer whose opinion matters to me... > > i am not putting my trust in Nokia. for that matter, i'll be real leery of > trusting Intel again, so much for stewardship! Not! Who are you going to turn to then? Fall in line, buy an iPhone, and be a good little boy? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
HELL No! Trading one flakey vendor for a closed vendor is no plan. I am going to track down best practice for shoehorning fc11 to my netbook. FC is a known quantity (w/quality); one i have relied on with success for years. besides, they have these great user communities! ;) On 02/16/2010 09:27 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > jack craig wrote: >> i did! it was full of resentful/fearful n900& n800 users fearing >> orphanages for their Nokia hw. >> >> talking heads can blabber all the marketing speak they want, but >> its the end user/developer whose opinion matters to me... >> >> i am not putting my trust in Nokia. for that matter, i'll be real leery of >> trusting Intel again, so much for stewardship! Not! > > Who are you going to turn to then? > > Fall in line, buy an iPhone, and be a good little boy? -- jack craig ja...@linuxlighthouse.com 831-684-1375 (Office) 831-596-6924 (cell) IM: jackcraigaptos (AIM) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: /etc/pki certificate questions
On Tuesday 16 February 2010 18:18:11 Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > Does anyone recommend a very good site for dealing with the > above issues? > I don't know any comprehensive site. I usually look at the openssl manpages and google. I suggest you to try the free certs at CACert. Even if they are not accepted by default in some (most?) browsers/clients, you'll learn how to deal with a real CA. There are decent instructions in their wiki. Most of the steps for making certs in Fedora are covered by the makefile in /etc/pki/tls/certs so: cd /etc/pki/tls/certs/ make If you just want self signed certs, use "make testcert" Hope this helps. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [slightly OT] rpm Vs deb [Was: Re: Moblin is dead, Fedora on netbooks?]
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > inode0 wrote: >> But Fedora doesn't bicker about this. Red Hat doesn't mandate this. >> Fedora as a community makes the decision. So why are we discussing it >> at all? Having transparent governance and community decision making >> does not mean bickering about such things. > > The problem is communication. With Maemo there was none. I can't say > much for Moblin as I haven't been involved at all. We are in the same position here. I haven't followed Moblin either and haven't said much if anything about the Moblin community. I've been a long time internet tablet user, both the N770 and N800 and do follow what is going on in the Maemo community. And I agree communication is a big part of the problem but I don't see how that will ever change when the governance that matters is done outside the Maemo community. >> This sentiment I think everyone shared in the beginning. Give Nokia >> time to learn its way. But they began with old mistakes (core >> controlled by them and the community contributing on the edges, sound >> familiar?) and continue with a governance model that guarantees a >> dysfunctional community that at each sudden jerk feels used. Hope may >> spring eternal but eventually people get discouraged. > > Yes, they are starting out the "same" but you should really Google or > read through some recent (as of this month) posts by @nokia folk that > have posted road maps and such that detail an overhaul of what they want > to accomplish. I'm holding out hope they follow that plan. You're free > to think Nokia won't change. Actually I think Nokia will change. If it doesn't the community it relies on will eventually unravel. I just worry that the change will not be good if it comes after the community gives up. John -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: /etc/pki certificate questions
Daniel B. Thurman wrote:
> Does anyone recommend a very good site for dealing with the
> above issues?
A site is not really required. It can be covered in one email.
I suggest creating a CA for yourself and then creating certs against
that CA. It will make updating your certs easier (unless you just want
to use 10+ year limits on all of your certs).
-Create CA
1. Make a ~/sslcerts, or whatever name you wish, directory.
2. Copy your /etc/pki/tls/openssl.cnf to your local directory. Make
changes to the new copy to match your environment.
3. Create your CA inside of your local directory:
mkdir certs private
touch index.txt
echo 01 > serial
openssl genrsa -out private/local_ca_cert.key 2048 \
openssl req -config openssl.cnf -new -x509 -days 3650 \
-key private/local_ca_cert.key -out local_ca_cert.crt -extensions v3_ca
(Change 3650 to however long you want your CA to last)
-Create user certs
Create the user certs from inside the ~/sslcerts directory:
openssl genrsa -out certs/${user}.key 2048
openssl req -config openssl.cnf -new -nodes -out certs/${user}.csr \
-key certs/${user}.key
openssl ca -config openssl.cnf -keyfile private/local_ca_cert.key \
-cert ${caname}_ca_cert.crt -out certs/${user}.crt -outdir \
certs -infiles certs/${user}.csr
Rinse and repeat for each $user. Copy the CA public key and user
private/public keys to a directory of your choice (possibly /etc/pki/)
to allow dovecot, httpd, or whatever daemon you wish to deploy TLS to
have access to them.
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Re: Nehalem network performance
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 07:35:11AM +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 14:59 -0500, Kelvin Ku wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:22:05PM +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > > which > > > > was throttling the CPUs to 1.6 GHz (from a maximum of 2.4 GHz). I > > > > attempted to > > > > remedy this by setting InterruptThrottleRate=0,0 in the e1000e driver, > > > > after > > > > which we had one full day of testing with zero rx_missed_errors, but the > > > > application still reported packet loss. > > > > > > rx_missed_error usually get triggered when the kernel is slow to handle > > > incoming hardware interrupts. > > > There's a trade-off here, increase the interrupt rate and you'll > > > increase the kernel CPU usage as the expense of lower latency - decrease > > > the interrupt rate, and you'll reduce the CPU usage at the expense of a > > > higher chance of hitting the RX queue limit. > > > I'd suggest you try setting the InterruptThrottleRate to 1000, while > > > increasing the RX queues to 4096. > > > (sbin/ethtool -G DEVICE rx 4096) > > > > > > You could try enabling multi-queue by adding IntterruptType=2, > > > RSS=NUM_OF_QUEUE and MQ=1 to your modprobe.conf.d. > > > > I'll try these suggestions later today. Note that I was able to disable > > interrupt throttling on the on-board 82574L NICs without seeing any > > rx_missed_errors. > > Did it help? I switched to an 82576 NIC. The kernel igb driver (version 1.3.16-k2) has multiqueue enabled by default with 4 rx and 4 tx queues. I'm running with 4096 rx ring entries enabled. The target app is performing well on the igb NIC whereas on the e1000e NIC it was missing packets. I say "missing" rather than "dropped" because these packets don't show up on any error counters. However, in throughput testing, we can't receive faster than 905-910 Mbps whereas we can reliably receive at 950 Mbps on our older non-Nehalem machines. > > > > > > > > > Can you post the output of $ mpstat -P 1 ALL during peak load? > > > > > > > We run "mpstat -P 5 ALL" continuously; is this sufficient resolution? I've > > attached the mpstat output from the 09:30-10:30 yesterday, which is one of > > the > > busiest hours of the day for multicast traffic. > > ~15'000 interrupts/core seems rather high to me - especially considering > the fact that this is a 1GbE link. > Reducing the InterruptThrottleRate to 1000/5000 while increasing the > queue count (ethtool -G ... rx ...) should decrease it. > > > > Also, here is the top of the output from powertop. Are you running with > > C-STATE > > enabled? It is somewhat troubling that more than half of the time is spent > > in > > the most power-saving state (C3), but I think this is averaged across all > > CPUs. > > I usually disable power management. > Be advised, that we are using 10GbE cards and not 1GbE, so we are more > vulnerable to > scaling-the-core-down-right-when-the-cards-starts-flooding-the-hell-out-of-it... I notice that ASPM is enabled on the 82576 NIC and the PCIe ports. Have you disabled ASPM? Disabling C-STATE had no effect on throughput or app performance. I'm going to test with ASPM disabled later today. > > P.S. Please post your complete hardware configuration. (Board, CPU, > in-which slot did you put the NIC, etc) > > - Gilboa I've attached dmidecode and lspci output. Here's a summary: Motherboard: Supermicro X8DTL-iF CPU: Single Xeon E5530 RAM: 3x1GB 1333MHz DDR3 ECC Registered The 82576 NIC is inserted into a PCIe 2.0 x8 slot. - Kelvin -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Nehalem network performance
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 07:35:11AM +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > > > > Can you post the output of $ mpstat -P 1 ALL during peak load? > > > > > > > We run "mpstat -P 5 ALL" continuously; is this sufficient resolution? I've > > attached the mpstat output from the 09:30-10:30 yesterday, which is one of > > the > > busiest hours of the day for multicast traffic. > > ~15'000 interrupts/core seems rather high to me - especially considering > the fact that this is a 1GbE link. > Reducing the InterruptThrottleRate to 1000/5000 while increasing the > queue count (ethtool -G ... rx ...) should decrease it. Oops, forgot to respond to this. The interrupt rate is currently around 4500 intr/s in total (i.e. the sum of intr/s over all cores) under load, which seems normal. Also, I've attached the dmidecode and lspci output. - Kelvin testhost.dmidecode.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data testhost.lspci.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: How to move my / partition
Chris Tyler wrote: >> I want to move the / partition on a (very ancient) Fedora-12 desktop >> from one SCSI disk to another (/dev/sdb3 to /dev/sda6), >> because the second disk is showing some signs of sickness. > If your / filesystem is on a logical volume, which is the default for > F12 installations, you can move it easily: Thanks for your response. But unfortunately these are not LVM partitions, as I should have said. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Update problems
Updates were available: Total size: 181 M Is this ok [y/N]: y Downloading Packages: Running rpm_check_debug ERROR with rpm_check_debug vs depsolve: kernel-uname-r = 2.6.30.9-96.fc11.x86_64 is needed by (installed) kmod-nvidia-2.6.30.9-96.fc11.x86_64-190.42-1.fc11.1.x86_64 kernel-uname-r = 2.6.30.9-99.fc11.x86_64 is needed by (installed) kmod-nvidia-2.6.30.9-99.fc11.x86_64-190.42-1.fc11.2.x86_64 kernel-uname-r = 2.6.30.9-102.fc11.x86_64 is needed by (installed) kmod-nvidia-2.6.30.9-102.fc11.x86_64-190.42-1.fc11.3.x86_64 Complete! (1, [u'Please report this error in http://yum.baseurl.org/report']) This happened earlier today, so I thought I'd check, at indicated URL. When I tried to login, I received Technical details: yum.baseurl.org uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: *.osuosl.org , osuosl.org The certificate expired on 08/18/2009 12:48 PM. = I've often seen outdated security certificates, but this one exists but belong to another site. Rather weird, no? As for the error message, I suppose it's because my kernel is: uname -r 2.6.31.12-174.2.3.fc12.x86_64 So the kmod-nvidia module is just late. Ooops! locate kmod-nvidia-2.6.31.12-174.2.3.fc12.x86_64 /var/lib/yum/yumdb/k/69046e192dd5d70f1e63533744b72ec773a8efd1-kmod-nvidia-2.6.31.12-174.2.3.fc12.x86_64-190.53-1.fc12.1-x86_64 Can somebody explain? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
F12: Missing clamd-wrapper & clamav-milter in /etc/init.d?
Seems that I am not getting the init scripts for clamd/clamav-milters. Here is what I have installed: # rpm -qa| grep clam clamav-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 clamav-data-0.95.3-1200.fc12.noarch exim-clamav-4.69-17.fc12.i686 clamav-milter-upstart-0.95.3-1200.fc12.noarch clamav-update-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 clamav-filesystem-0.95.3-1200.fc12.noarch clamav-server-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 clamav-milter-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 clamav-lib-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 Has something changed? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: F12: Missing clamd-wrapper & clamav-milter in /etc/init.d?
Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > > Seems that I am not getting the init scripts for clamd/clamav-milters. > > Here is what I have installed: > > # rpm -qa| grep clam > clamav-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 > clamav-data-0.95.3-1200.fc12.noarch > exim-clamav-4.69-17.fc12.i686 > clamav-milter-upstart-0.95.3-1200.fc12.noarch > clamav-update-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 > clamav-filesystem-0.95.3-1200.fc12.noarch > clamav-server-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 > clamav-milter-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 > clamav-lib-0.95.3-1200.fc12.i686 > > Has something changed? I believe you need to install the -sysvinit packages. The clamav packages are split up in a rather... interesting way. -- ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~ Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. -- Douglas Adams pgpYm9vNrCB6j.pgp Description: PGP signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: radeon driver / fc12 / ati hd 4770
On 10/02/10 19:21, gary artim wrote: > fyi, i just went over to the 2 machine and talked with the users of > them. they showed me that within > konquerer and kconsole the fonts get funky graphics, like the > character set is set incorrectly. But not consistent > at all. Moves around to different parts of the screen. Sometime the > boarder area is hosed. Sometime the > desktop icons are unreadable. The zebra lines and checked board images > on the background seem to > come and go. > > i'll try changing to radeonhd -- i remember giving it a quick shot in > the beginning and having trouble getting a gdm > login screen. Will try again. -- g. > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:31 AM, gary artim wrote: > >> will do. >> >> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 09:07:58 -0800, >>> �gary artim wrote: >>> Thanks Tom -- I'll give it a shot. Any other options/opinions are welcomed -- l'll gladly put a wiki up explaining how and what works if i can make that happen -- don't you just love video cards!? >>> Please make sure there are bugzilla entries for the problems you encountered >>> using the ati driver. Even if you need to use radeonhd to get things to >>> work, >>> the bugs are more likely to get fixed if the developers are told about them. >>> >>> >> >> have you tried mesa-dri-drivers-experimental? they are working very well here (F12 X86_64 HD3400) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: How to move my / partition
> Chris Tyler wrote:
>
>>> I want to move the / partition on a (very ancient) Fedora-12 desktop
>>> from one SCSI disk to another (/dev/sdb3 to /dev/sda6),
>>> because the second disk is showing some signs of sickness.
> But unfortunately these are not LVM partitions, as I should have said.
to be *terse*:
read;
man rsync { note -a -u -v options
man mkinitrd
man fstab
man grub.conf { if there was one :)
man chroot
with /dev/sda5 mounted, 'rsync' / to /mnt/sda6 [or how ever you have it
mounted].
if you have '/home' on a separate partition, note in 'man rsync' how to
eliminate '/home'. same applies to '/boot'.
after copy, make changes to '/boot/grub/grub.conf' and '/etc/fstab' to
reflect new locations.
'cd' to mounted directory for new '/', run 'chroot', cd to '/boot' and
run 'mkinitrd'.
reboot.
it has been a while that i last ran such, but i do believe that is it.
hth.
--
peace out.
tc,hago.
g
.
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
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Re: radeon driver / fc12 / ati hd 4770
yes I did try them, same results. g On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, psmith wrote: > On 10/02/10 19:21, gary artim wrote: >> fyi, i just went over to the 2 machine and talked with the users of >> them. they showed me that within >> konquerer and kconsole the fonts get funky graphics, like the >> character set is set incorrectly. But not consistent >> at all. Moves around to different parts of the screen. Sometime the >> boarder area is hosed. Sometime the >> desktop icons are unreadable. The zebra lines and checked board images >> on the background seem to >> come and go. >> >> i'll try changing to radeonhd -- i remember giving it a quick shot in >> the beginning and having trouble getting a gdm >> login screen. Will try again. -- g. >> >> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:31 AM, gary artim wrote: >> >>> will do. >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: >>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 09:07:58 -0800, �gary artim wrote: > Thanks Tom -- > > I'll give it a shot. Any other options/opinions are welcomed -- l'll > gladly put a wiki up explaining how and what works if i can make that > happen -- don't you just love video cards!? > Please make sure there are bugzilla entries for the problems you encountered using the ati driver. Even if you need to use radeonhd to get things to work, the bugs are more likely to get fixed if the developers are told about them. >>> >>> > > have you tried mesa-dri-drivers-experimental? they are working very well here > (F12 X86_64 HD3400) > > -- > users mailing list > users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Convert MS Windows XPM file to run under Qemu-KVM?
I was thinking about the possibility of converting the Micro$oft XPM VM free file download to run on qemu-kvm. After doing some research on Google it looks like there maybe a way to convert their VM to run if the right tools can be found and downloaded. Anybody else thought about this or tried it? I know about the licensing issues, I just want to know if it can be done. Regards; Leland C. Scott KC8LDO -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: How to move my / partition
On 02/16/2010 07:49 PM, g wrote:
>> Chris Tyler wrote:
>>
I want to move the / partition on a (very ancient) Fedora-12 desktop
from one SCSI disk to another (/dev/sdb3 to /dev/sda6),
because the second disk is showing some signs of sickness.
>
>> But unfortunately these are not LVM partitions, as I should have said.
>
> to be *terse*:
>
> read;
> man rsync { note -a -u -v options
> man mkinitrd
> man fstab
> man grub.conf { if there was one :)
No, grub has an info page:
info grub
> man chroot
--
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cummi...@kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)
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Re: How to move my / partition
Kevin J. Cummings wrote: > No, grub has an info page: > > info grub this is true. i am 'old school' and keep forgetting about 'info'. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Leading number in package names when updating with yum
Hi all, can somebody explain what the leading number in some package names means when running "yum update", for example Feb 17 07:25:19 Updated: 1:openoffice.org-calc-3.1.1-19.26.fc12.i686 ^^ After having updated, no such pkg has been installed. Regards Joachim Backes http://www.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~backes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Leading number in package names when updating with yum
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 08:26:43 +0100, Joachim Backes wrote: > Hi all, > > can somebody explain what the leading number in some package names > means when running "yum update", for example > > Feb 17 07:25:19 Updated: 1:openoffice.org-calc-3.1.1-19.26.fc12.i686 It's the epoch. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
