Re: [FRIDAY] Why isn't Java Open Source?

[netsql]

groovy!

.V

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:

Oh no... here we go :) LOL




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Re: [OT] Stinking IDEs

[netsql]

enough!

only on fridays. and if particapate!

.V


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Re: [OT] Re: Unacceptable Behaviour of Mark Galbreath

[netsql]

On 6/30/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


... give Niall a break. Niall is one of the most helpful people I've 
ever met online.



+1


.V


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[FRIDAY all week] Re: Struts Books Recommendations

[netsql]

Thai Dang Vu wrote:

 
So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)



I heard if you *know OF* Swing, while you wash your hair, it can paint 
your house.



.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

Lets say it's true.
Maybe you should check the asp list for that tool.
.V

Rafael Taboada wrote:

Hi folks I've been reading all mails about VS.NET .
 I have a question. Is it true that software in ASP.NET  is 
faster than in Struts???.. HOw true is this opinion?
 I heard about a tool that it can convert a ASP.NET  soft in 
a .war so it can be runned in Tomcat... Is it true? what tool is it?

 Thanks for ur xperiencie sharing.




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[FRIDAY] Re: Unacceptable Behaviour of Mark Galbreath

[netsql]

David G. Friedman wrote:



I *did* think Mark was bad until I read a post from Ilias Lazaridis on
the netbeans list.



we seem to have a fascination w/ a trainwreck.

.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

Rick Reumann wrote:

John Henry Xu wrote the following on 6/30/2005 11:49 PM:
 you spend lots of time on getters and setters.


You can use stuts w/ collections, maps, lists. I used to.
No need for beans (I used own "baseBeans" and got rid of it when I found 
collections superior). For example muti row updates. Look at dynaMap 
javadocs.

The old struts was beans.




 It's just very misleading to

state that you need GUI tools to create Struts apps.



+1.

Even in C# I dislike VS, in favor of text based.
In HTML, some people used FrontPage (the tools and wizzards and paint by 
the #'s) some people use TextPad (Vi-m, etc.)
For heavy lifting, I think text editor types are much more productive 
then VS/Frontpage. I don't see how you can say that an IDE XYZ makes one 
a better developer or a lanage ABC a better one.
Is textpad more productive than FrontPage? Yes, IMO. Your millage may 
differ.


.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

Suppose your department used to spend 10 million dollars a year, now you need 
15 million dollars to do the same work.

So good GUIs to automate repeatable codes are neccessary to cut those 5 million 
dollars.

Jack H. Xu
Technology columnist and editor




Ahh.. you are an editor... and not a programmer. In that case your logic 
is right.


.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

John Henry Xu wrote:

V., in any cases of programming, more lines and more classes means more work 
and more money. Don't you agree?

Jack H. Xu
Technology columnist and editor




Unless I do fixed bid. Or have my own software company... where you try 
to reduce costs. So we only do things that reduce cost.


I am fine w/ you thinking that "FrontPage" is more productive that 
"TextPad".


In general, more profitable companies advance.

.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

John Henry Xu wrote:
code which can be

automated by GUI and tools. Microsoft usually do this job better. Hope we
learn from them.

Jack H. Xu





I am sure you write better than me.
Look at it this way, you could be a sports journalist and I could be a 
pro basketball player, and you are writing that I should waer some kind 
of sneakers to score more.

I am sure lots of suits read PC week and decide based on that.

There are whole other dimensions that have nothing to do w/ GUI 
generated code.

Like OO. Or Groovy.
Look, I can't teach you to dunk the ball. But you can watch me do it!
;-)

.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

Yan Hu wrote:
How long did it take you to be this productive?

Obviously, you are expensive for all the hard work you did in the past. But a 
bum who needs only
10 dollars hours could do the same thing with FrontPage as you would.  Why 
would I pay you 50
dollars an hours to just draw a couple of buttons on a form? 


--- John Henry Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Good point. Sometimes you want a Picaso, and sometimes you want a $10 
painting.


In my shop, GUI tools for Swing or UI, such as VS, are not allowed. You 
must make UI handcoding it. You'll just have to take my word that it's 
*MUCH* more productive to hand code a UI when you are building a complex UI.



.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

John Henry Xu wrote:
.V, 

I was working on Java until I became a manager. 


Hmmm.


 In struts and EJB, lots of codes fit into patterns and can be automated.




If you think automating code generation is your best skill, go for it. 
It's telling that you selected EJB. You can generate more code in C# also.



Money is the No. 1 factor for a owner/manager.> 
 


Agreed on that. So it's for software engineer. Anyone can write code. 
Writing it effectively is the way to it.


.V



Jack H. Xu
Technology columnist and editor



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Re: Struts vs .NET??? -> Real Stats

[netsql]

Gregory Seidman wrote:


Of course, I can't make any guarantees on how much traffic these sites get.
They are, however, pretty popular. 


This is a good list:
http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_500

So it this:
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html
In this 2nd you can see that MS has less than 30% market and shrinking - 
2nd diagram.


When I did a site that was ASP (ex http://people.1up.com - w/ 10MM 
members) client wanted something secure. .NET does not run well on Linux 
for large sites and that was that. So they dumped .NET.


Using the new version of FrontPage in VS 2005, do you think you can do a 
page like ps2.1up.com, that automatical changes when you do pc.1up.com? 
It's the same page!


I am so not trying to sell you on using text editor... I WANT you to use 
GUI tools. (You know they trained an elephat to paint by the #'s).


For heavy lifting... jEdit(for Groovy) and X-Develop(when doing ANSI C#) 
will do ya.

Refactoring is *NOT* a waste of time nor indication of bad design.

Why would I want to teach you to be more productive?
Plese use GUI and VS and FrontPage and Wizards.
I think that there are much more productive aproaches, but no need for 
me to wear it on the sleave.
This is not a religois langage war, people that did good Java will do 
good C# and the other way arround.


In general, I am a libreterain, and as such I do not think stupidity 
should be outlawed. I am all for stupidity ;-)


Struts is not here to defend J2EE, go to EJB or JSF list please and tell 
them .NET is better for corporate development!


.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

Gregory Seidman wrote:



You clearly missed my post on the advantages C# has over Java



Clearly you are missing that we, users of Apache software, *don't care* 
which is better. news flash: We use both.
A large chunk of people here also sigh up for iBatis DAO, we use both C# 
and Java.


http://ibatis.apache.org/index.html - see all the .NET annoucments?
In case the IDE of DataSource don't work for you, and you like C#, you 
can, an Apache will facilitate.


.V


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Re: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

John Henry Xu wrote:



So tell me what does  the owner of your company think most important?



He is probably thinking how to get rid of ineffective managers.
What is your agenda, to come tell us your's is bigger?

There are plenty of large Struts sites, if that is what your aim was:
http://wiki.apache.org/struts/PoweredBy

And now this is realy going to piss you off: You can do Apache Struts 
MVC in C#:

http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/struts/sandbox/trunk/overdrive/Nexus/Core/?rev=208875



.V


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Re: R: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

Simone - Dev wrote:


For my point of view the differences between the 2 platforms are nil...
(ok, one has that, the other has something else, but generally speaking
they are the same)




+1


While setting up Eclipse, to debug Struts application with Apache Tomcat
is a pain...



-1. It just not well documented:
Set up tomcat app.xml to point to where you eclipse hosts WEB-INF. Done!
Then use tomcat managment app to rest. This is old news.


And think about the desktop applications: no visual designer for Java
can generate a nice code for the buttons and panels of the GUI. (unless
it use it's own GUI api like jBuilder or Eclipse)


You can use VS '05 "painter" for *simple UI ONLY* imo. Else we'd be 
using NetBeans for Swing and JSF Studio.

Struts has them:
http://www.scioworks.com/scioworks_collage_screenshots.html
Swing has them:
http://www.computersinmotion.com/cgi-bin/homeframeload.pl?formname=products
Google is your friend.

Do you yealy think people on level of Craig, Husted, Clinton, Linus, 
Marti C, etc. use painters? Or that you are not productive?
Guns don't kill. People kill. Tools don't matter. A good developer is 
key, and you are not going to get one at $10.


Here is a feel good:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/default.aspx

Do you see how *LITTLE* trafic "they" get? :-)
That tells me something.


.V


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Re: IDE Wars (was Struts vs World)

[netsql]

Craig McClanahan wrote:


From a personal perspective, I was a die hard Emacs user until about a
year ago, when IDEs finally started getting to the point where they
could make *me* more productive. 




http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/20050305
I quote above bile: "JSF is NOT for real java developers, it's for those 
paint by numbers by kids"


Vi!
Vim! (Vi improved)
gVim! (Gui Vi).
That's progress. I do like refactoring IDE's like Eclipse and other. But 
for UI? It's a 90% solution; and I live in the last 10%. Is there a 
shipping produciton app done w/ UI?


What w/ F22 and Democracy being invoked.

I get more producitivity out of applying OO using brain, then painters, 
your millage may vary. I will show you an example UI(in about a month 
after I ship beta of my new project), and then ... maybe put a small 
bounty if *ANYONE* can re-produce it using a painter or VS '05 or whatever!
So lets have another IDE flameball in a month? (that would be a big 
decrease, right now it's twice a week). Or lets just have a policy to 
have IDE wars on another mail list and ban those on Struts.


.V


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Re: IDE Wars (was Struts vs World)

[netsql]

Craig McClanahan wrote:
to linking to it for entertainment value :-). 
Can anyone here remember any other case?  Even if it's not the first,

it is still ridiculous enough to be memorialized :-).


Is there a

shipping produciton app done w/ UI?

> 
C'mon Vic ... you know the answer to that question.




 >

So when are you going to stop whining about anyone who uses IDEs?  :-)

Or arguing on the basis of "it's almost done, it's gonna be so cool"
software, instead of what already exists?





OK, OK.
I want to wear a white hat.

I wish you personaly best, with JSF too. Hopefully in a galaxy far away 
it's JCF - client side faces.



.V


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Re:M Galbreath

[netsql]

We all all sincererly very sorry, we just wanted a slap on the wrist 
from all the noise.


.V


Mark Galbreath wrote:

Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
of the Board of Elections.  It made me look like a racist and I was
fired this morning.  The State is also looking into whether my use of
an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
law.  You did your work well, you low-life bastard.

Signing off
Mark




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ot: Struts 1.3

[netsql]

so... when?

.V


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Re: Spring

[netsql]

David Whipple wrote:

We use it for the primarily for application assembly and integration with
iBATIS.





The rap on Spring is that it's a bit more complicated than Struts. It 
does have a dao interfcace, and... Struts does not.

A big benefit is that you can switch from EJB to something else.

Imo, Commons chain can be used for application assembly (and dao: 
execute(map))


I do wish Struts/Shale/Jakarta/Sun had an unimplemented Dao interface.

.V


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Re: Spring

[netsql]

Alternatively, you could consider population of the chain Context to be 
roughly "application assembly" -- but the commons-chain library doesn't 
really provide much support for setting up a complicated Context.




I know, but even digester lets me assemble objects. And hivemind.



I do wish Struts/Shale/Jakarta/Sun had an unimplemented Dao interfac


Hm.  What would this look like?  Is it just a marker?  The way I write 
my DAOs, there would never really be any useful commonality which could 
be extracted into an interface.




The fact that there is an interface is key.
Then I can change from EJB to iBatis to xyz.

ex:
ArrayList populate(Map args)
boolean insert(Map row)

etc.

.V


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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]

[netsql]

Andrew Tomaka wrote the following on 7/8/2005 2:29 PM:
 in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill.  A

good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.



I'm guilty of this also.. so I apologize for contributing to the 
downhill discussion.





+1.

Let's all cut it out. Don't feed a pest.

.V



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Re: Using struts forms as Value Objects: your opinion?

[netsql]

of course... I use Collections (Maps and Lists) as VO/DTO.
You can wrap them w/ DynaMaps, you can validate a map, you don't have to 
maintain deprecated gets/sets, it reduces duplication... your dao 
can return a map/collection/list...


I think it vastly simplifies to use Maps in places where I used to use 
beans. (I even got rid of baseBeans domain how much I loved maps)


.V


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Re: Using struts forms as Value Objects: your opinion?

[netsql]

Rick Reumann wrote:
How does a developer working on your
code know how to even get the properties out of your Map? I guess he has 
to look at some API contract saying put date of birth in the Map as 
"dob" not "dateOfBirth." 


As in iBatis, name of the map property is in my case the field name in 
the table, and I do not have to map it, it compes that way.


Think how rarely you get class cast exceptions! Very rare. Forget you CS 
101.


> In my IDE I can get dot completion to work easily but that's not
gonig to work with your Map approach. If I need firstName from employee 
I can just do employee(dot)=[pop up of methods]... you're going to get 
..   employee. [ get, put, etc Map methods !]


I have been using Flash, CoR and Groovy and got used to the dynamic 
nature and maps (CoR Context is a map too, I use it as a sort of a 
vararg). Also, w/ XML. Imagine a XML used for SoA you knid of have 
to  know what you are getting so you can show a jTable.
I just have a XML DAO (ibatis) and a model that only has a populate/crud 
methods, no gets/sets.


On a large project, the fact that there are thousands of classes not in 
a project is a huge maitanace improvment. Anytime my developer would 
think bean use a map instead.

See post by Jeff Butler on "Map over Bean" in iBatis list.

Before that multiple developers develop a similar "CutomerBean" and as 
the front end or back end would change, they had CRUFT geters/setters. 
(on 1up.com project) With a Map... there are 0 such clases.
Some people don't get dynamic langs yet... just like some people took a 
long time to get OO. It's much less code.

You can use validator w/ map, DynaMaps...
It's diferent. Anywho... that what my team does on this JDNC project.


.V
ps/ot: Did you say IDE dot completion? ;-) I don't need no stinking badges.


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Re: Using struts forms as Value Objects: your opinion?

[netsql]

Larry Meadors wrote:

Hmm, of course, who needs things like refactoring, and compile time
name and type checking? That's why you have users, eh? They'll find
the bugs eventually. ;-)

Larry




Get/Set, Get/Set Half the time I have no idea what the db date will 
come back as.
Look, I think some of you will belive me that I know well the benefits 
of beans and that I have done at least several deployed projects w/ 
beans. It was a best aproach for the time. Now I have an alternative.


It does not change jUnit testing in anyway, I fire a populate/CRUDs and 
assert. So using maps does not make me insane.  :-P


Compile time type checking? Like in dynamic langs?
Most of the sucessfull p-langs are dynamic. In flash, array and map are 
same class even. I envy their sucess. For example, the home page of 
Spring is done in Plone.


So I just duplicate their aproach to get their Cost of Operation.

.V







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Re: Using struts forms as Value Objects: your opinion?

[netsql]

Rick Reumann wrote:
They have to look at a database model in order to figure 
out how to get back a dateOfBirth field? 


Yup. Each develolper has a 24" poster of the data model. DBA is in 
charge, Model Driven. Just like client server days.


  Now 
they want to iterate over this list and display some properties. 


I use JXTable that needs a tableModel.
I wrote a class that extends tableModel that takes init(List)

In Struts, you can pass the List to DisplayTag, but you know that.


 they'll have to look up the database model.



Yup. Each develolper has a 24" poster of the data model. DBA is in 
charge, Model Driven. Just like client server days. Did you bring that 
up again?



 I'm just glad I don't have to 
work on projects where I have to go to the datamodel to figure out the 
names of my properties to use as a key in order to get out a property 
from a Map. 




what if you had...
if ( someCondition ) {
  Integer age = (Integer)employee.get("DOB");
  //other stuff
}



We almost never see class cast exception in practice.

> How does the developer know what "type"

was used for the value? I can look at a bean and see...



No type. Look, lots of developers are using dynamic langs.
I suggest you try Groovy one time, just play w/ it. Its 
Better/Faster/Ligher J2EE.
Realy Rick, please try Groovy... it's the answer that's looking for you. 
I am sure you have read some of the Rails press.


Double price;  but I have not idea what type of value 
shippingOrder.get("price") is. The developer just has to guess or where 
does he look? The datamodel?


OK... I see your main point is that one has to memorize the data model. 
In order to write good fast scalaeable querries you have to know the 
model.
DBA is resposible for the data model. They tend to be VERY experienced 
w/ production issues. So I leverage their experience over java 
developers, most Java people tend to have less than 10 years prof. exp.


> Sure
if only one person has to deal with the code, it 'might' be faster since 
he might simply remember all the types etc, but what happens when the 
code is inherited? Pity on that developer.





Good theory that I used to beleive.
In practice, that is why I went from Beans to Maps. 10% of get/sets on a 
project tend to be deprecated either becuase of model changes or becuase 
of view changes.

W/ a Map:
- you don't have VO/DTO classes, but still have layer, 0 code, 0 bugs
- It's dynamic, when DAO SQL string changes... so does your 
jxTable/Displaytag.


I removed an entire layer and still have the layer.

Developers are so pasionate... that's what makes them good.

.V








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Re: Using struts forms as Value Objects: your opinion?

[netsql]

Rick Reumann wrote:
 Call me stupid but I don't

even know what p-langs are (languages I can urinate on?:)




lol.


PHP (Friendster tried J2EE, went to PHP). Part of LAMP stack, conisdered 
most effective. Try Tiki-Wiki or Drupal when you get a project, you are 
80% done.

Python (used by Google)
Plone (use on Spring home page)


.V


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Re: Using struts forms as Value Objects: your opinion?

[netsql]

Rivka Shisman wrote:



Is it crucial for the Action Form to have String properties?





Yes.
Http/html is a String protocol. A user types in a string in your forms 
(unless it's a callendar tag for dates)


rambles on:
Only exception is if you have R/O, only getters, that you would not even 
need to declare in Struts.config as formbean. Then it can be "native" type.


If you use same bean for both a R/O and a R/W form, you might have:
int getRamount(){}
String getAmmount(){}
setAmont(String a){}

A duplicate getter ;-}

In JDNC, it's all native... (collections in my case)

.V


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Re: Struts 1.2 v 1.3

[netsql]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Ted, is there a list of tasks for 1.3? By "volunteer", are you referring only 
to current Struts committers?



Anyone can edit / search bugzila.
Anyone can post a "diff" to code. Only a comiter can ... comit code.

(you become a comiter when comiters get tired of comiting your code)

.V


Erik


-Original Message-
From: Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jul 14, 2005 6:57 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Struts 1.2 v 1.3

On 7/14/05, Access Denied <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I just bought and am reading James Holmes' book, "Struts: The Complete
Reference" (Osborne 2004), which covers 1.2.  I just learned from one
of Ted Husted's posts that 1.3 is almost ready to be released.  Am I
wasting my time and should be studying other literature?



Hmmm, I may have said "almost", but I did not mean to imply "soon". 


Right now, no one seems to be trying to push 1.3 out the door. There
is not even a release plan. The only timeframe for 1.3 is
"indefinate". It could be a week, or a month, or five months. It all
depends when a volunteer can step up to the plate.

Of course, should "indefinate" happen, it would not make any 1.2
material obsolete. By "1.3", we mean the release would be backwardly
compatible with 1.2.

-Ted.

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Re: Releasing 1.3 [was: Re: Struts 1.2 v 1.3]

[netsql]

James Mitchell wrote:
 as soon as I get back, we will roll a release, or die trying ;)





that would be greeat.

.V


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[FRIDAY OT ANN] My new project is beta

[netsql]

roomity.com to check it out.

it should help you use mail lists. It's RiA/JDNC (CoR). There should be 
updates weekly and it should release in days.


hope you like.

.V


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Re: [FRIDAY OT ANN] My new project is beta

[netsql]

We still have some JNI issues in Mac.
:-(
.V




Simon Chappell wrote:

I tried it on my Mac (OS X 10.3.9) and while it triggered the JNLP
download, nothing happened after that. Bummer. :-(

Simon

On 7/15/05, netsql <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


roomity.com to check it out.

it should help you use mail lists. It's RiA/JDNC (CoR). There should be
updates weekly and it should release in days.

hope you like.

.V


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Re: [FRIDAY OT ANN] My new project is beta

[netsql]

Martin Gainty wrote:

I missed The URL

>

On 7/15/05, netsql <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


roomity.com to check it out.


roomity.com or http://roomity.com/roomity03.jnlp



.V


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Re: [FRIDAY] What technology do you use for authentication and authorization?

[netsql]

Craig McClanahan wrote:


  http://weblogs.java.net/blog/gmurray71/archive/2005/07/got_servlets.html

My particular question (well, questions :-) for the Struts community:

* What technology do you currently use for authentication and authorization
  in your web applications?



I used JDBC relms in at least 3 large struts projects. (including 1up, 
the last one, 10mm memebers)




* If you use the container managed security faciities of your container,
  does it completely meet your needs?  If not, what else would you like to see?


I think it should let me use my own DAO(iBatis, EJB), so that SQL 
queeries are cached. The spec should address it at least in words that 
containers are expected to cache the querry.


I allwaysed added row based security. So a sales guy from NY could see a 
table (dispay tag) where he could edit NY customer but only read TX 
customers.


The spec might make it easier to use applets (or JSF) for the login page

If somone clever could come up with a light/simple BRE for security. (if 
this you can see that in this mode but not that unless rare_condition 
isTrue).


It should allow us to use DB security (ex: create user). Or "Exchange" 
security (so when they fire somone and remove mail... poof)


It should "timeout" and have to refresh. For example if I upgrade somone 
to "moderator" they have to log out now. Maybe a remote "JMX" to 
send message to time out.


Did I say JMX? Everything shold be JMX. WHos is loged on? What are they 
doing? EVERYTHING!




* If you don't use container managed security (i.e. the facilities
defined in the
  servlet and J2EE, err, Java EE specifications), what capabilities would you
  need to have available before you'd consider using the container facilities?



It be great to be within the spec and pass the login autehtincation each 
request so you do not have to realy on the session.


It be great if it allowed for "coporate Liberty", meaning a global 
security standard, or single logon to mutiple servers and app types.


Servlet should not assume htpp/htmlServlet! (or 
httpRequest/httpResponse)I can't belive I did not list this 1st ;-)... I 
think of html/http as Gopher, gohper used to be 90% of internet 
traffic.). For example RMIServlet should be implemented, AxisServlet, 
RSSServlet... More about serializing objects(including collections) in 
binary. (So they can be sent over the wire)

(also ... single coporate security should work on more protocols)
ALso.. something about encrypting objects sent accross the wire to 
either comunicate results or to keep scope.


Soemthing about audit logs. Everyone has simple weblogs, it could be 
standardized and spec should use a word "asyncronous write in 
another thread". (So when a log audit trail of a users use does not 
dealy the response). Managers LOVE audit trail of what was used by home 
for how long... not to mention that we can invoice on it.


We may need a "disconcecet" way to manage the session. It should still 
time out, but I should be able to managed it from applets. Like what is 
my session in each request and expicit about how it would die.


Here is a hint for JSF 3.0: 
http://www.jaxfront.org/pages/overview_introduction.html (Sun should 
provide a conversion path from JSP to JDNC XML)


J2EE should include JDBC and not J2SE! Becuase! It encourages people to 
use J2EE.jar and makes rt.jar smaller. It discourages Swing newbies from 
not doing DAO or VO/DTO. rt.jar needs a native JDBC driver anyway. (I 
think same about CROBA, just move it up).


Mail api is important. It should be in J2EE.jar, if not rt, 80% of time 
we need it.


j2ee spec shoud talk to junit and ant. I used to go to clients to 
work... and they did not have it installed. [EMAIL PROTECTED]


In general... servlet => services, SoA. If not sure on how to implement 
some idea, just leave as api/interface, wait for best O/S implementation 
and put in J2ee.jar on next go arround.


hth, my invoice is in the mail ;-)
.V
(I did not post it on his blog :-( )


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Re: [FRIDAY] What technology do you use for authentication and authorization?

[netsql]

Sergey Livanov wrote:



In my project authentication and authorization are performed by
certificates. Help me, please, to find right way to define WHos is
logged on and What they are doing by JMX .



1. get a jmx tools servlet to work... it should display all jmx 
refistered objects and settings. lots to google

2. unit test a simple interface that give you what you want to see
3. set up a filter to redirect to use the jmx impl.
3.a :-) I have never used certs. find a way for a filter to ... 
intercept the cert request and req/resp activity.


hth,
.V


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Re: Struts 1.2 v 1.3

[netsql]

What does 1.3 bring to the party?

I know there will be with the composable request processor and 
commons chain integration. What other innovations are there

in the new version?



I think they also said Struts 1.3 will also be built using JDK 1.4 and 
to Servlet 2.3. So during evoltion, some things can be tweaqued. For 
example easy to have nice url names w/ filters.


(People using Tomcat 3 and JDK 1.3 will have to say on < 1.3 or migrate)


.V


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Re: whats new with struts?? no beta for download

[netsql]

Ashish Kulkarni wrote:

Hello
I have been using struts for a while now, 



when will be the next release of struts 



I belive that you have been using Struts for a while. That's why you 
know the answer to you question as to when.


You can get any version or variation of Struts using TurtoiseSVN anytime 
you want using direction on home page.


.V


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Re: Copying of properties vs. nested VO

[netsql]

Michael Jouravlev wrote:



I am not convinced that UI should be *that* different from domain
model.



+1.

Example: You make a html mock up an go to contract, then do ren *.html 
to *.jsp for prototype.

Beased on your approved prototype your most senior desigs a domain model!

Domain Model is more physical vs model model is more logical view. Ex: 
Customer has mutiple addresses in physical, but in logical it's just 
customer.


.V


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Re: [OT] Secure Email w/ java

[netsql]

Glen Mazza wrote:

If you don't get a good answer here I would check \


SUn's mail mail list or jakrta commons (email) jar.

.V



project--ML's, docs, etc.

Glen


Brian McGovern wrote:

Sorry for the off topic, but hopefully someone here has done this 
before.  Im using a tomcat smtp resource and JavaMail to send e-mail 
with my system.  I want to secure it and am getting confused.  Can 
anyone give me some clear docs or help on how to do this.




Thanks
-B




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Re: Hi-New to this group

[netsql]

I used JDBC realms for security.
I tend to avoid EJB, even v 3 (it does not support collection) but EJB 3 
is not bad (unlike 2.1.. it is bad).
You can run 500 concurnet users on an old laptop, I my tests I get over 
$2K per CPU on older servers.


What stress testing tool do you plan to use?

.V


Maya menon wrote:

Hi all,

I am designing a web app/ Its supposed to have 500 concurrent users.

1. Module- Login
The users login using their uid/password and see the stuff in their database

I am planning to use Struts,jsp,action classes in the front end
Now, back end I am thinking about session ejbs which reads database tables. The method for getting values from database tables will be implemented in a DAO. 


Now, what should I use in the middle layer ?
ie, intercation between action classes and session ejb: For a struts based 
appp, whats best here ?
Again 500 concurrent users.
 
Thanks



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Re: Hi-New to this group

[netsql]

I think there is a Struts wiki page for this also.
.V


Maya menon wrote:

If any one has any sample implementations using ibatis / hibernate, please send 
them to me. It would be really helpful





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Re: Hi-New to this group

[netsql]

Rick's home page has one.
.V


Maya menon wrote:

If any one has any sample implementations using ibatis / hibernate, please send 
them to me. It would be really helpful




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Re: Polymorphism

[netsql]

... ah... Formbeans extend ... and so do actions ...
Then it pick the user implementations and executes.

.V

syed abrar wrote:
  
Hello All

 This question might look some what stupid,but it is important for 
me..How is Polymorphism implemented in struts
 If any of you guys knows the answer please send it to me

Regards 
Syed Abrar
 




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Re: [OT] Hibernate vs. iBatis vs. POJO

[netsql]

Ted Husted wrote:


People can make any system work, but they have to *want* to make it
work.



That is deep! And very true.

.V


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Re: [OT] Struts and Content Management

[netsql]

Daniel Henrique Ferreira e Silva wrote:

Hi BHansard,

Do you really have to stick to Java for a CMS?

If, and only if, java is not mandatory for your project, i'd go for
Zope + Plone. 


Or PHP like drupal, tiki-wiki, etc.

Html works best on p-langs imo. (which is why I wrote a webstart)

.V


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Re: [OT] Hibernate vs. iBatis vs. POJO

[netsql]

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
It has not been unusual to estimate three months
for something, and that's fairly realistic to do it right, and the 
business says "nope, 1.5 months is when we need it". 



I need you to paint the house, but I only have budget to wash my hair?

That is no respect and a bit like slavery!


.V


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Re: [OT] Hibernate vs. iBatis vs. POJO

[netsql]

Stéphane Zuckerman wrote:

Larry Meadors a écrit :

I agree with previous comments saying that Hibernate is useful 
if your project is quite large. Otherwise, the time taken to set it up 
would be better used to do something else. It does add some complexity 
when thinking through a new project, and in case of an existing one, 
there are too many changes that would need to be done to it to be really 
interesting in my opinion (or else, said project wasn't really big anyway).



So are you saying Hibreante for big complex or iBatis for big complex?




(I think most people know which one I say)

.V


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Re: [OT] Hibernate vs. iBatis vs. POJO

[netsql]

I used iBatis 2 w/ 7000 concurent users and subsecond response time 
(each users requested data from a page that had many tiles, 1up.com)


It's much faster than others becuase of a simple row based cache.

I am one of few SQL instructors certified to teach P&T, I would argue 
it's by far the most scaleable. However... that does not abosolve you 
from stress testing your DAO.



Larry Meadors wrote:
Not that I have seen. 


I have used it on a project with 800GB of data + 40-50 concurrent users.

Vic will probably chime in on this thread as well...

Larry




Is there any truth to the urban myth that iBatis doesn't scale?



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Re: [OT] Hibernate vs. iBatis vs. POJO

[netsql]

Leon Rosenberg wrote:
 




I think the sentence "clustering will help you scaling" is an urban myth :-)

Leon

+1

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Re: JSF is the beginning of the end of Struts !!!

[netsql]

John Public wrote:

After just finishing my JSF class, I can confidently
confirm that JSF will eventually lead to Struts
becoming OBSOLETE. 


:-) Enhydra and Torque would say that too circa 2001.
Put up a site and lets see it.


Let's all get
behind JSF before MS takes over the web. 


Nothing wrong w/ C# IMO.
I think PHP is "best(fast and cheap, lowest risk, most roi)" for 
"genric" server side rendering applications. (But then... I think the 
future is client side rendering )

If JSF(or EJB) fails, it won't be becuase somone did not "get behind it".

Competition should give us best answer, and I am all for using better 
tech. Every few years I'd like a new tech please.



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Re: JSF is the beginning of the end of Struts !!!

[netsql]

Mark Benussi wrote:



I have never done any PHP so I can't comment, but agree with the previous
comments in so far as Struts/Java/Servlets is for large applications. I
would not build a suite of actions and database pooling for my old mans
plane photos web site.




You may be just repeating the marketing theory, not what was validated 
in practice. Friendster switched to PHP after Java, so I guess they did 
not find Java scaleable.
On a large project you may want to reduce risk by starting w/ 80% of 
project done and customize the last 20%. Imagine, 1st week and you are 
80% done.

There is DAO, etc for PHP, take a look at architecture of TikiWiki.
And my faviorte lesson: Home page of Spring is in Plone.

Here is a good summary of what's out there:
http://www.opensourcecms.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=388&Itemid=143

So if you do non RiA application you need to objactivley consider 
php and plone, see if they have a solution w/ less risk.


.V


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Re: JSF is the beginning of the end of Struts !!!

[netsql]

Mark Benussi wrote:
Is it

marketing hype to state that Struts/Java/Servlets is for large
applications and I would not build a suite of actions and database 
pooling for my old mans plane photos web site





Why would you say that?

.V


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Re: JSF is the beginning of the end of Struts !!!

[netsql]

John Henry Xu wrote:


You are right. I worked on Java and hope Java success. That is the reason
my links are java-based. I just want see more sites written in Java. That
is why I think in Java world, we need more doers than talkers.
If more java programmers code complex sites, java could compete to PHP.
But now almost all public sites are dominated by PHP and others... Hope
other Java programmers provides Java links as well.



+1



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Re: JSF is the beginning of the end of Struts !!!

[netsql]

news to some:
http://bugs.sakaiproject.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4981

I think it was said "us Java dudes" should talk less and produce apps 
more in this thread, which is what I said +1 too. It's hard to debate 
PHP vs Java on the server, which is better, which is bigger... bla, bla.


I know you can't do http://roomity.com/launch.jsp in PHP, that would be 
JDNC. And as of tmrw night it will run Linux-Mozilla and OSX-Saffari, 
not just Windoze!.  So if somone says why Java, you say RiA! won't you. 
Lets see somone do that.


(and ah... there is allways the business benefit of not having to post 
your email to mail groups... but we use apps for tech benfit :-) )


hth,
.V

ps: Like Ted said... sometimes we just use MVC we learned in Struts in 
other projects, and my JDNC impl is all MVC, developed by Struts dudes.


John Public wrote:
>  Make no mistake about it. JSF

rocks. JSF is based on "true" MVC architecture, not
the MODEL 2 version that Struts uses. 


J.J.
JSF Developer (former Struts Lead Developer)





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Re: [OT] Hibernate vs. iBatis vs. POJO

[netsql]

Hernandez, Mariano wrote:

we use EJBs, although I and a colleague
have tried to persuade our architech to use ANYTHING other than EJBs. 



Consider having a email "Dear Achitect, thanks for meeting w/ us, we 
brought you some good reasons not to use EJB; we understand you do want 
to use them". -- just in case it heads south.




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Re: what is M (of MVC) in struts

[netsql]

The form"Bean". ;-)

it maps to html form.
.V

Carl Smith wrote:

Struts privide strong C (of MVC) components, tyical of which are ActionServlet, 
Actions  and RequestProcessors, but I am wondering which part is the M (of MVC).

Thanks.


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Re: what is M (of MVC) in struts

[netsql]

Joe Germuska wrote:




Struts does not provide any part of the "M" (Model). 


oh yeah, that's right.

.V


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Re: [STRUTS 2X]: Ideas

[netsql]

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:

See, now it gets interesting because debate starts :)


I would say that key for any "new" framework is that it has to default 
to client side rendering of ui. DHTML/Ajax ... or others ;-)

And then as option be able to do server side generated UI.

.V
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Re: [STRUTS 2X]: Ideas

[netsql]

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
 what does it really mean for them to be

rendered client-side and where does DHTML/Ajax fit in?



DHTML renders client side(w Ajax RCP). Flex/Lazlo. Swing. XUL. X-Forms?


.V


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[OT ANN] Roomity mail lists version 1.0

[netsql]

I am posting this message using roomity!
Features now and future, we started on version1.5 features this weekend: 
http://roomity.com/news.jsp - yada, yada.
We process arround 45K messages per day.

* http://roomity.com to launch! 

bugs(release early and often!): 
http://tracker.roomity.com:9080/tracker/QuickAddIssue
or [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you can't start it.
Experimental support for Mac. Linux works in Gnome-Mozilla only for now. 

OK, I will TRY not to post more about it here, it's Java, not Stuts. So if you 
want to see new things it does... you'll have to use it. 
Down w/ Ruby and PHP!
(even gmane.org is down today :-( )

Save you mailbox!

.V




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Why obtusify

[netsql]

Why would you want to obtusify server side? 

.V



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[OT] {BEER] commercial J2EE application server recommendations.

[netsql]

J2EE App Servers:

Resin, Tomcat, Orion

DB:
MySQL, PostgresSQL, Sybase ASA (not ASE)

Framework:
APache/iBatis PetStore

good luck.

.V



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AW: Nice try (was Java code generator including Struts 1.2)

[netsql]

Yeah, them ANN people.

;-)


.V



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Re: Nice try (was Java code generator including Struts 1.2)

[netsql]

I think Swing is easy if you MVC. For example don't do inner classes and 
listners to this. Just separate out your action from the relizer.

.V

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
No argument here... Swing is a pain in the arse under the best of 
conditions.  
Frank


Michael Jouravlev wrote:




Apparently, Swing designers thought that Swing apps would have been
fluid and resizable, and it would have been hard to stick all fluidity
into a simple resource file. And now you have it. Swing code is crap
even when it is well-formatted, with these unwieldy listeners and a
forest of interfaces. There are nicer ways to create event listener
than to implement an interface with bunch of methods in it.



Swing is a clear example why programming to interfaces is sometimes
such a pain in the butt.

Michael.






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Should I use JSTL 1.1 & struts taglibs or JSTL 1.0 & struts-el taglibs?

[netsql]

W/ Tomcat 5 (Servlet 2.4) you should use latest JSTL and regualr Struts tags.

You would only use Struts-el tags w/ Servlet 2.3. 


.V



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Re: [OT] Swing, was Re: Nice try (was Java code generator including Struts 1.2)

[netsql]

Yan Hu wrote:

But java is perhaps not suitable for fat client - type apps while it 
is a great language for the server side.



Dave Newton wrote:
How is it "not suitable" for fat clients? 



Yan Hu wrote:   
How many huge apps are written in Java Swing and how many are in C++,C 
or even VB?  




When I did started using Struts, very few people did Struts(Enhydra and 
Turbine and roll your own was the fashion). Majority of traffic 12 years 
ago was Gohper, 1% was html/http. Every 10 years technolgy changes. Wait 
and see, RiA is here:

http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=35810
LimeWire, Azarus, BlogBridge are example client side java apps.

.V
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[FRIDAY] Link to "Don't use Struts" ;-)

[netsql]

http://jroller.com/page/RickHigh?entry=don_t_use_struts_on1

I think it funny. Be basicly says use anything but Struts. 

Anyday now, we will find a good excuse why it's # 1.
I read someplace: "They chose Struts becuase they already had it, otherwise 
they would have used XYZ. But when we a new project, then... "

Whatever.

.V




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Re: [OT] Tomcat, JAAS and Kerberos

[netsql]

1st answer is I duno.

But...
JAAS I think acts a bit like a filter, it just gets called. In your 
web-xml you tell it what url you want secured and somehow map how the 
users see it. Bea site has a good doc on web.xml.


So I assume that when you get to the secure url, those classes fire and 
see who the users is.


(or just go JDBC relms... map JDBC to LDAP :-)
.V


Wendy Smoak wrote:



Even if I write a couple of classes and fill in the blanks, I don't see 
what's ever going to instantiate them.


What am I missing?  This can't be as hard as I'm making it.

Thanks,
Wendy Smoak



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Re: [OT] Reasonable implementation time guesstimates

[netsql]

I guess some of this is ot, but you said any comments.

In my shop lead enginers are most productive coders ( I measure LC via 
CVS stats) and also get to... lead the project. (I have no project 
managers, who'd respect them?).


This is how I size my projects. Most similar is Scrum (minus scrum 
master) methodology to what I do.

Step 1: takes unlimited amount of time.
Mockups of every screen and report in HTML. (everyu field).
I can't possibly size it.  My clients, users managers, either know what 
they want or don't. This way I know # of screens. Only senior leads work 
w/ clients to extrack mock ups (newbies tend to say "I know" to client, 
when they should say "No, I have no idea what you want", lets write it 
down).

I call this mock up.

Step 2: I estimate that each prodcitve developr can do 3-6 modules per 
day iterative based on my 15 years + as lead. (Yes, I have a 
productivity goal. Also I have no meetings or LAN downtime). So that 
kind of means that seasoned guys can do "6" "screens/tiles" per day, vs 
less experienced guys can do "3". Since Sturts is MVC, there are like 3 
iterations. This is sizing. I do not make a Microsoft Project plan, 
becuase that artificialy limits prodtivity. (like ok, this iteration is 
not to be finished untill next week, so it eats my profit. I keep anyone 
who think MS Project = Project Managemnt away from my projects)


3. View layer iteration I do 1st. Something like ren *.html *.jsp plus 
clean up. Then I get them to make tiles, and link each jsp to be called 
by empty action that just forwards to "normal". Also emtpy formbeans or 
form maps, with some fake data in constructor. For displaytag, I use a 
collections, again fake data in contructos.  I don't do menu or 
naviagtion in this iteration. I do CSS here. Clients like to debate 
colors and images.
This I call prototype, it has emty action and tiles and css and it looks 
like it works, but no data. (3-6 per day). Clients love how quickly I go 
from 1 to 3, it shows listening ability and responsivnes.

Notice that you just wrap an emty struts sceleton arround clients screens.

4. By now, my DBA studied step 1 and has designed an E/R model. I get my 
 developers to write DAO's matching step 1 / 3 and unit test each DAO 
CRUD. (They are not tied to action or anything Struts). (3-6 per day).


5. Action was blank so far. Tie DAO to Action and View. (3-6 per day). 
Each developer worked on same vertical slice aka module.


6. Navigation and QA (3-6 per day). Since navigation is dynamic, users 
should be able to go from any page to any page at any time, I do it 
last. (story boarding is a waste, business process is dynamic and 
changing, data is static).


7. Interfaces. It takes at least several days per external interface if 
they are well defined in step 1. Write those, starting after 4.

Done!

For example, we did 1Up.com 104 screens (each screen had many tiles) for 
$760K w/ 30% margin over 4 months with 5.5 developers using above. (qa 
came in at end, to validate that mockups in 1 are just like #6. It was 
fixed bid. In hind sight, I think we would have had higher produtivity 
in PHP.


I guess you can see how I don't use top down or bottom up, uper case or 
UML. I just count screens.
Some modules are harder than others. But over life of project it averges 
out. So I allways say 3-6 per day no mater if easy or hard. I don't 
study process, it's a waging tail. I just split screens into modules and 
assign modules to developers. Moduels can be by type of user of you 
system. For example on your project you could have 1 developer write 
Admin MVC modules, another do Exibitior MVC modules and a 3rd do Manager 
MVC modules.
I do not think you sized # of screens/reports from you post at all. They 
can allways change their mind about you not understanding the process 
and making you change your design, just when you think you are done.

But lets say that there are 5 defined screens in each of the 3 modules.
After you have HTML mocups, you should be done in a week w/ 3 
developers. HTML mockups of each field on screen can take month or 2 to 
validate. ALso, if client wants 200 screens/reports but can only afford 
100, they have to pick the ones they want in version 1. And then 
external interfaces depend on if the external ones are defined and 
avilaalbe.
So my esitmates are not hard dates, they are:3 monhts from when we get 
all the hard copies of html mockups you want in version 1. (So if client 
wants a release in April, by Jan 31st they should pick the screens they 
want in version 1). Also, it can take a few weeks to mobilize developers 
(hire, etc.)
Stupid games you play are like client will say: It's 20 screens, start 
now, by the time you are 1/2 done, I'll show you the screens. I allways 
have my developers surf the web and go see a movie while client figures 
out what they want.


I had one developer do 18 modules in one day, no it was not me :-) ... 
it was a she. (She got to be the lead on my next pro

Re: Struts weaknesses question

[netsql]

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
... these are applications that don't
necessarily flow from page to page, instead the user can navigate them 
at will, more or less.  "Events" that occur on the client-side don't 
automatically have to result in a whole new page being rendered (and 
this DOES NOT require AJAX, the other buzzword of the day, although it 
is one good way to achieve the result).





I actualy look at each "page/preport" as it's own MVC. User can just 
type in any url at top, that is the event.
They start filling a form, go to lunch, check CNN.com, and go back to 
your site. It's event driven programing, as opposed to procedural 
programing on vt100 where the programer determined the next step.


I am ammused when newbies try to document or enforce a workflow arround 
an  ever chaning business process. Flow chart anyone :-)


Navigation/menu to me is ... just a menu that has all the urls of each 
page. Event driven, user in control. They feel empowered.



hth,
.V
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Re: Tiles standalone jar

[netsql]

So 1.3 is NOT using the standalone tiles but the old tiles?

.V

Craig McClanahan wrote:



Be warned, however, that a couple of changes in the Struts 1.3 version
of Tiles have not yet been ported over ... I hope to do that this
weekend.




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Ann: Book softcopy in wiki

[netsql]

http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsBook

A donation. Hopefully people jump in and maintain, w/o defacing it (Jack).

.V
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Re:How to Debug easier

[netsql]

I use https://simple-log.dev.java.net

.V



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Re: [JSF] using a jsp:forward to get to backing bean method?

[netsql]

Rick, consider trying Faclets (from Java.net) w/ Struts Ti (from Dev 
List) combo; that may be more powerfull and more teachable.


.V


Rick Reumann wrote:

David Haynes wrote the following on 8/22/2005 4:19 PM:


I'm just fumbling my way through like most others...



Trust me you don't want me as your 'JSF running back' 
right now in JSF Fantasy Football. I've been fumbling in all my 
pre-season attempts at carrying the ball:) I think I'm averaging -20 
yards/carry.





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Re: Shale/JSF/Java posts

[netsql]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 08/25/2005 01:55:04 PM:




Would starting up a separate shale mailing list be a bad idea? 




Defintely +1 for this idea.




And now, for a comercial:

I'd mirror it or start it in 2 minutes RiA, ex, click 
http://struts.roomity.com



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Re: OT: Design Issue.

[netsql]

You won't get into any problems w/ only 5 users if you just have a field 
in table viewed_by_userId.

.V


karthikeyan balasubramanian wrote:

Hi all,

This may not be exactly struts question but here is my scenario:

1. I will be reading data from a single table and displaying it to some 
users.
2. Assuming that there are 5 users at one time records read by one user 
should 
not be seen by others.

3. This single table size can be huge.

What is the efficient way to achieve this solution without getting into
table locking issues.

Looking forward for your response.

Karthikeyan B




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Re: Struts Documentation

[netsql]

From home page of Struts, there is a link to wiki, which has a book/w labs:
http://wiki.apache.org/struts

.V

Gonella Jayprakash wrote:

Hi,
 Can anyone please tell where to get the documentation for Struts.
I cannot find any link for downloading the struts doc on
struts.apache.org.

Thanks & Regards,
Jayprakash



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Re: Select Options Question

[netsql]

Chapter 16 in wiki struts book will tell you how to use options 
collections w/ DAO, and it has a lab.

hth,
.V

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I am sure there is a slick way to do this, but it escapes me at the moment.

I have a Select Box that I am populating with the  tag  The
result is:


Group 1
Group 2
Group 3
   ...


I need the value for DAO actions performed from the search which will
return a detail bean for display on an output JSP.

On the output JSP I need to Display the Group Name that I selected from the
input.  My Form holds the group id and a field for the group name.  The
options that I can see are:

1.  Requery the Database for the output page to retrieve the name given I
have the key.  This would work, but seems like a lot of overhead to go to
the database each time.
2.  Create a delimited value (ie Group
1) and use the String Split to get the value and label.  (I am
leaning toward this)
3.  use javascript to update the field each time the select changes.  The
problem with this is that the select box can be very large based on the
users selections on previous entries.
4.  Store the Value Label list in the session (Don't like this at all
because the volume of users that will use this application).

Any other suggestions?




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Re: OT: Good Java host

[netsql]

It be great if this freqeunt OT question was on wiki.
.V

lchalupa wrote:
I've been with eapps.com 



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Shocking about Netbeans 4.2

[netsql]

http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t44901.html

.V


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Re: Shocking about Netbeans 4.2

[netsql]

Yes.


Legolas Woodland wrote:


are you Victor Cen. who post in TSS ?
 On 9/5/05, netsql <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t44901.html

.V






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Re: basics of struts

[netsql]

There is a 30 hour tutorial on struts wiki:
http://wiki.apache.org/struts (search book)

I wonder if that would help you. (it's meant for instructors ... but 
maybe you try it).



Ankit Pancholi wrote:

Hi guys

I am a very new user of struts. Making my first pgm and wanted to know
what will be the argument type in the setter function for a checkbox,
listbox, combo button.

Another thing is when I am trying to compile my basic java code for the
form bean and action class it is giving me that javax.servlet.http.* not
found. I have run the same code in another machine long bac wit no
probs. Any idea wat setting I hav missed. I have set the classpath
variable to sturts.jar file and am running tomcat server.
Thanks for any kinda help.





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Re: basics of struts

[netsql]

The link is an example of it runing (as is 1Up, and a few other clients. 
Cool thing about WHO is that it's set up.exe that install's struts, 
tomcat, db, etc. and runs).


In order to get the book, you have to read the insrutctions about 
attachment at botom of page.


.V


James Mitchell wrote:
Someone should recheck the link from the wiki page, it points to  "World 
Health Organization (WHO)
HIV/AIDS Toolkits on the Web and CD-ROM", which I doubt was the  
intended target.


Thanks.

--
James Mitchell






On Sep 5, 2005, at 8:58 AM, netsql wrote:


There is a 30 hour tutorial on struts wiki:
http://wiki.apache.org/struts (search book)

I wonder if that would help you. (it's meant for instructors ...  but 
maybe you try it).





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Re: Who decides?

[netsql]

I disagree. SQL SELECT command writen by somone w/ 6 years, or 9 years 
of 12 years expereince, etc. is a huge difference IMO.


Also, would you give a $10MM+ budget to 5 years person? No one would. 
They would never see a forest from the trees.


There may be perception amongst MBA's that we are all widgets and "IT 
does not matter", but to me ... PHB's don't matter.


.V

lets see my tech timeline: Unix, Informix, DBII, Turbo Pascal, Cliper, 
rBase, OS2/MS SQL, PowerBuilder, Sybase, C,C++, Java, Fedora,.



Rick Reumann wrote:
Yes, 
a seasoned programmer will more valuable than someone right out of 
college, yet once that college grad has about 5 years (maybe less) 
experience, I would not say that he's necessarily any less valuable than 
the programmer who has been programming for 10 or more years. The 
deciding factor will then become who's been keeping up more with the 
latest technologies. Previous experience becomes much less important.






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Re: [OT] Struts Approach

[NetSQL]

I call them API ex:
http://www.sandrasf.com/other/sandra/javadoc/index.html?org/sandra/api/package-summary.html
and Impl.
.V
Larry Meadors wrote:
At any rate, it boils down to personal preference. As the tech lead
where I work, I would publicly flog anyone who committed a
ICustomerDao class to my CVS repository. ;-)
Larry

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chain article

[NetSQL]

http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/5671
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Re: Struts DB Access :: Best Practices

[NetSQL]

Larry Meadors wrote:

- iBATIS has a lot of options to use JavaBeans, which I don't find
useful. I just take parameters in a java.util.Map and return a
java.sql.ResultSet directly. (I'm a DynaActionForm kind of guy, so using
a form bean form this would be a little out of place.)

OK, now I have to just plain disagree with you. ;-)
Using Maps and ResultSet in your application as the domain model is
just plain bad design.
It is difficult to test and too loosely coupled. 

I am sure Vic will disagree with me if he's reading this. :-P

I missed the bait!
So I used to do all the trick with beans, even named my company 
BaseBeans (there are so many benefits- I think I know them all)... and I 
was pushin limits of beans, I even did not like and still don't DynaBeans.

One the 1up project, I was horrified to see mutiple beans, such as 
UserBeansX and ContentBeansY; and some were deprecated and all had 
get/sets that were not being used.

Also I was doing ActionScript and looking at other dynamic langs, where 
they used "AssoicativeArrays". And I took a big liking to dynamic 
nature, ex Grovy.

The point is... I use ArrayList of Maps now for my DTO,VO and ever as a 
message object for WS/SOA.

Wherever I used to use a bean, now I use a collection, and I like DynaMaps.
maybe one day you guys catch up;-)
.V

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Re: Struts DB Access :: Best Practices

[NetSQL]

Joe Hertz wrote:
The point is... I use ArrayList of Maps now for my DTO,VO and ever as a
message object for WS/SOA.
Wherever I used to use a bean, now I use a collection, and I like
DynaMaps.


I think I'm buying what you say in a big kinda way.

Cool.
I worked for years in an architecture that eschewed many OO concepts
as creating more work than they saved. 

I of course see a lot of productivity and velocity (rate of development) 
of useing OO w/ Collections. You can have BaseMap or BaseList, etc.


Its universe was something like this-
A Database contains a map of Table Objects
A Table object contains an array list of Record Objects.
A Record object contains a map of Field Objects.
Etc

Even silly JSF uses RowSet as DTO. (RowSet is realy a ArrayList of 
HashMaps. Rows of Columns)

I look at it like this:
-SQL is a Set oriented lang.(row by row processing is exponentialy slower)
-iBatis can allways return an ArrayList of Hashmaps (so I do not have to 
write a bean, or keep the bean up to date w/ my Domain - I consider 
iBatis a domain).
- Flex (RiA) can recive a ArrayList of HashMap as natie Associative 
Array. (so cool that Collection is a DTO - I can even change form model 
w/o creating new beans or new gets/sets)
- Since this design works w/ Flex, I might as well use it in JDNC.

Or the short version:
In Java, we represent Sets as/is a Collection.
For Struts, that means not a FormBean, but a FormModel (a map that maps 
to fields).

No more mutiple "CustomerBeans" on large projects and having to add 
get/set when view or domain evolves. It's dynamic and losly coupled.
I am not sure if I am advocating not mastering beans 1st, what with late 
binding issues they solve. But once you know beans, then... dynamic.

hth,
.V
Done properly, something like this could be infinitely reusable no matter
what the application. 

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Re: Struts DB Access :: Best Practices

[NetSQL]

Scott Lamb wrote:
NetSQL wrote:
(RowSet is realy a ArrayList of
HashMaps. Rows of Columns)

What does a ArrayList of HashMaps get you over a java.sql.ResultSet? 

Collections are lighter and easier to SoA.

I look at it like this:
-SQL is a Set oriented lang.(row by row processing is exponentialy 
slower)

This is totally wrong

Maybe you think that. I think I am right.

- Putting all the data into another container _is_ row-by-row 
processing. You're always doing row-by-row processing, even just to 
fetch it from the database server. 

Maybe you think that. JDBC drivers do not stream rows; it sends it after 
"Select" processing, joins, ordering, etc has been done. So if you do 
order by, and your table has millions of rows, 1st the SQL engine sorts 
and then it starts sending the millions of rows. DBCacnel... just 
stops the stream.

Ex#2: you can create a cursor to give everyone in NYC a raise, and go by 
 row by row. Or you can do a set operation in one command. I allways 
avoid row by row, and allways try to go for set, as per direction by 
Celko and others. Your millage may vary.

When I need to display chunks of data I do limit/offset SQL side, not 
Java side. In Java, I let iBatis cache it for me w/o any code on my part.

hth,
.V

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Re: Of Struts and Tiles and Portals

[NetSQL]

Google on Tiles 101 and 201 artilces.
1up.com is a portal done in struts, you can see like 12 tiles per page 
(it has 100s of pages and each of the 12 tiles per page is CMS db 
driven, ex: top 10 games in category)
 It was done open source projeect basicPortal (if you have a big struts 
project and want to save a lot of time).

What I did is uses one action per page, and each page has lots of tiles 
actions.
It's important to unit test each tile, before you put it in a page.
afiak portlets still has technical issues.
Also I assume you do use JSTl when ever possible and other EL syntax.

good luck,
.V
Wendy Smoak wrote:
My next project looks like it will be a portal-type app to display
information about our operation.  Different people will be allowed to see or
will choose different things, based on what they do within the organization.
So I asked Google about Struts and Tiles and Portal, and, well, didn't find
much.  Is Cedric's page dated 2002 still current enough to work from?
http://www.lifl.fr/~dumoulin/tiles/
Any suggestions on how to get started with this, or does anyone possibly
have an example to share?

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Re: Struts Business Logic :: Best Practices

[NetSQL]

I used Hivemind and switch to CoR, which I consider a light weight 
container.
Good article on CoR at onJava.com.

.V
Manfred Wolff wrote:
Ted.
+1 to this approach. I prefer leightweight container such as hivemind to 
manage the entrypoints to the business logic. Hivemind is easy to learn 
and you have the benefit, that the lifecycle of the business components 
may be steered too (such as pooled components, singletons etc.). Other 
containers like spring or picocontainer are also well.

-Manfred

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Re: Typical Struts development team and distribution of tasks?

[NetSQL]

Radu Badita wrote:
At 21:35 11.03.2005, you wrote:

You can't get any closer than the two being the same person!  :-)
We have three Java/Web/SQL developers.  We all pretty much have our
hands in all of the layers of the application code, from SQL and
PL/SQL all the way to HTML and JavaScript.

Yeah... sad but true.

In some case you have 7 developers, w/ roles like this.
One is relative of a top executive.
One is a promoter for a rock band part time. (yes)
One is realy an assistant to the manager, what with MS Project being the 
critical part of the project.
One is Office Automation (Word/Excell) expert.
One flies bellow the radar very well.
One is fresh out of school, 0 experience.
One is an experienced real developer.

Lots of meetings, lots of PC and diversity training, a lot of LAN 
downtime, most of the software installed is virus checkers that take 
more CPU than editors, DBA's are in a different town, runing the worst 
and oldest possible J2EE container,  your standard Dillbert office.

So 3 developers, count yourself lucky.
.V
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Re: Typical Struts development team and distribution of tasks?

[NetSQL]

Leon Rosenberg wrote:
*ROFL*
I hope the one real developer is the worst payed... To make the case
complete :-)

He's the lose canon! Allways downloading 3rd party jars instead of 
writing own code. And he can't even do his time card on time.

;-)
Oh... if anyone fits that category in Dallas, and knows SQL, like how to 
force an index please email me your resume.

.V
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Re: BRANCH: Typical Struts development team and distribution of tasks?

[NetSQL]

Larry Meadors wrote:

After all that, I have to ask: Why should I bother?
I tried it, I really did. In fact, I tried it several times. Each
time, I got a little further before deciding there was too much pain
involved to make it "easier" for me. So I switched to iBATIS .

+1 for iBatis as faster!
.V
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ann?: Linux Distro includes... Struts (and Tomcat and Eclipse)

[NetSQL]

http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47711
.V
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Re: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same Time?

[NetSQL]

Craig McClanahan wrote:
I would caution new projects, however, to *not* use the Struts HTML
tags.  That part of Struts has received fairly little developer
attention, and should be considered legacy at this point. 
I would disagree. JSTL replaced some tag, but HTML tag is IMO best 
practice and production tested stable.

It's easy for graphic artists to work w/.
.V
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Re: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same Time?

[NetSQL]

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
 It strikes me as nothing more than a bunch of marketing-speak
in place of substantive discussion.

I agree.
I also respect and admire Craig and know that he has indirectly put 
money in my pocket.
But... he has an itch for JSF and he will go that way, and it's a loss 
for us.

Other developers have left Struts core in the past, ex Winterfeld.
I monitor the dev list, and it seems that there are plenty of develors 
that have an itch in Struts (Joe, Martin, Ted, Don, Neil, )

Even if Struts stoped evolving, it's better and simpler than others, and 
we have the source.

Craig also "came up" with CoR, that is core of future versions of Struts 
and outside, etc.

Nothing wrong w/ Craig making a living. Nothing wrong w/ Shale.
I think the 2 will evolve separtetley!
(... until we *all* do client side UI rendering - since JSF is *Server* 
Faces... and Struts can be used as a SoA dispatcher due to MVC. I would 
switch if JSF 3.0 was Client Faces. )

.V
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Re: [Shale]: , , DialogController and Tiles

[NetSQL]

Craig McClanahan wrote:
I'm quite intrigued by the Web Flow project in
Swing's sandbox  ...
Not Swing.
Spring or Don Brown's Ajax-Strtus sandbox I assume are both called "Flow".
( I am glad it's in the back of your mind Freud. XUL, Flex, XAML, Ajax 
(aka DHTML), JDNC all render on the client and improve performance by 
offloading rendering from the server.)

At least not yet.
.V
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Re: [Shale]: , , DialogController and Tiles

[NetSQL]

Craig McClanahan wrote:
And there's even JSF components around that do this sort of thing too :-).
AFAIK JSF was not designed for client rendering (hence "Server" faces, 
not "Client" faces). It can be done in the same way one can get JSP or 
Servlet API to render on the Client.

Please somone correct me if I am wrong.
.V
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