Re: Which git service suits a LiveCoder best?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

github.  pricing is getting better, especially in the last month, to
compete with gitlab.  we have projects in both github and gitlab (and I
guess one person is messing with Azure, or whatever M$'s other git thang
is), but people seem to be using github more.
gitkraken is the most popular gui our people use.  part of that is because
of its glo boards, which give you a card/kanban style view of issues,
to-do's, calendars, etc., integrates with slack, blah, blah, blah.  It also
can be integrated with issues in github, which is nice because the
interface is better and easier to organize than issues, especially if you
have a lot of them.  Our ERP project, for example, has 201 issues open
right now.  Some of them are just one feature request or bug report, but
some of them are thirty or more sub-items deep with many
comments, documents, screen shots, etc. on them.
the person messing with Azure is using Visual Studio's git interface, one
is using github's client, and one is using the Working Copy app on ios.
Even if you don't choose gitkraken as your git client, you should check out
glo.  You can access glo any number of ways, including inside GK, from GK's
website, from slack, from Atom (and I think from SublimeText) and the glo
mobile app for ios.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:58 AM Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:46 AM Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > So, in short: How do I best get started with git when working with
> > LiveCode on Mac, in small teams or alone, wishing minimal use of command
> > line?
> >
> > Do I just let gravity pull me into the GitHub gas giant, or join a rebel
> > moon? :)
> >
>
> Hi Andreas,
>
> I use GutHub for my LiveCode projects but haven’t looked at other services.
> I enjoy using it and they recently reduced pricing and made a team account
> available for free which is great.
>
> There aren’t any special tools for LiveCode on GitHub that I’m aware of. It
> isn’t even recognized as a language by GitHub. At the moment I’m investing
> how I might get automated builds working for my Levure apps using GitHub
> and CircleCI. I’m in the very early stages of research and haven’t made any
> real progress yet.
>
> I love using Tower for my Git GUI. I’ve been very pleased with it.
>
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
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Re: Which git service suits a LiveCoder best?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I wouldn't say it's using levure as intended.
trevor, in his videos, anyway, does not export every script to an SOS, only
ones that are a certain length.  if you do it that way, then scriptTracker
could be valuable.
I choose to put every script in SOS's, so scriptTracker isn't particularly
useful for me.


On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 4:23 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> ScriptTracker isn’t necessarily incompatible with Levure, but if using
> that framework as intended then all of the scripts would be in script only
> stacks as behaviors which would make it unnecessary.
>
> I have thought about setting up a hybrid project as a test but never have
> gotten around to playing with it.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Apr 27, 2020, 3:53 PM -0400, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > As to the ’how’, I planned to move into script-only stacks more anyway,
> and will also test the Levure framework, and/or Script Tracker.
> > I’m not sure if those two are compatible though? I mean, if I use Levure
> framework I can’t (needn’t?) use Script Tracker as well, right?
> >
> > Anyway, with the help of a good free tutorial I’ve set up a GitHub
> account and done the necessary local stuff, including doing basic command
> line actions (yeah, wasn’t that scary after all…), so I’m progressing one
> step at a time… :)
> >
> > Andreas
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Re: Best relational database for IOS / Android

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

do you mean for c/s?  if it's client-only, then sqlite and mysql are
perfectly integrated into lc for ios.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:55 AM Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Good morning,
>
> In your opinion, what is the best relational database to use for an IOS /
> Android application?
>
> Being a PC guy and always living in the Microsoft world, I always default
> to SQL, however, with my latest discoveries of the complexities involved
> and lack of support in LC I don't think that would be the best move at this
> point.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> SKIP
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mergGoogle source OSS'd

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

LC has decided to deprecate mergGoogle, which is disappointing since my
company uses it hourly to generate reports from our ERP system that our
customers can use to check up on you-name-it.
However, LC also generously agreed to OSS it, so here it is.
https://github.com/macMikey/merggoogle

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-2

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

if i do a build for ios, the build number is what shows in xcode as the
"version", and the "version" does not appear anywhere.

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> 
> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2 comes with 5 regression fixes.
>
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_2.pdf
>
>
> Known issues
> 
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
> Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
> yet.
> - The mergSettings external still uses the UIWebView API on iOS, so
> checking "mergSettings" in the Inclusions pane will cause an AppStore
> rejection, since Apple no longer accepts new apps that use UIWebView.
>
>
> Required Software
> =
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> Xcode as follows:
>
>   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
> SDK
>   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>   - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.4 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> installing it separately.
>
> Important: Since the end of April 2020, Apple is only accepting new apps
> built using iOS13 SDKs. Updates to existing apps can be built using iOS12
> SDKs until the end of June 2020. This means that, if you wish to submit new
> apps to the AppStore, you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in
> order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
>
> Feedback
> 
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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lc vs macos vs xc vs ios table

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

do we have a table somewhere on which versions can be connected?
i just tried to rebuild one of our apps for the annual app-build-of-doom,
and discovered that:
i can't seem to build for ios 9.3.5 (some older ipads), because i need to
run xcode 11 on catalina.  on 9.3.5 the app flashes white and then crashes
out.  on newer ipads, the app runs fine.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: ANN: glx2 script editor 4.1

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

thanks, mark.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have moved the repository from bitbucket to github because reasons.
>
> This is the latest build. It's now at glx2ScriptEditor version 4.1.
> Release notes and a documentation wiki are on the github site.
> It's had a pretty rigorous shakedown cruise lately on osx, windows, and
> linux and is now the editor I use on a daily basis.
>
> https://github.com/mwieder/glx2ScriptEditor
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: lc vs macos vs xc vs ios table

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

here's an interesting note for me the next time I'm in a panic over an
annual build:
XC prior to 11 won't run on catalina (maybe 10 will, so maybe pretend I
said "10" back there).  On your machine, you'll see the circle-slash
through the icon for xcode 9.x, which means apps that you built with LC 8.x
aren't going to get their annual rebuild if you don't hold your breath and
move to LC 9, right?
Nope.  It turns out you can still build in catalina with LC 8.x and XC9.
You just can't run XC9.  That was a pleasant surprise after doing our
annual rebuild broke one of our apps on "older" (2018 era) ipads that are
stuck in ios 9.x
***BUT*** that build config causes the app to fail on newer versions of ios.

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 3:41 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> do we have a table somewhere on which versions can be connected?
> i just tried to rebuild one of our apps for the annual app-build-of-doom,
> and discovered that:
> i can't seem to build for ios 9.3.5 (some older ipads), because i need to
> run xcode 11 on catalina.  on 9.3.5 the app flashes white and then crashes
> out.  on newer ipads, the app runs fine.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: ADA Compliency

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Oh gawd, I had an ancient college sweaty OMG FINALS panic attack, because I
thought you wrote Ada, not ADA.


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:57 PM Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Has anyone done anything in regards to ADA compliancy in mobile apps built
> with LiveCode?   Using the apple or android accessibility tools such as
> Screen reading, for example.
>
> -Dan
>
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And God said, "This is good."
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base64urlencode

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

does anyone have a routine to do base64urlencoding?  it's not the same as
base64encoding or urlencoding.

-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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Re: base64urlencode

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

you sure?  there is a difference in padding, as well, it seems.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 12:44 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 6/16/20 9:24 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > does anyone have a routine to do base64urlencoding?  it's not the same as
> > base64encoding or urlencoding.
> >
>
> It mostly is the same. Does this do the trick?
>
> function base64urlencode pString
> local tEncoded
>
> put base64encode(pString) into tEncoded
> replace "+" with "-" in tEncoded
> replace "/" with "_" in tEncoded
> replace "=" with "" in tEncoded
> return tEncoded
> end base64urlencode
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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SHA256withRSA

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

how about SHA256withRSA - anyone have an lc script?

-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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stacks panel in standalone application settings disabled

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

why would everything on the stacks panel of the standalone application
settings be disabled?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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Re: stacks panel in standalone application settings disabled

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

uh, isn't that a problem if you have behaviors included and you need to add
or remove some?

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:57 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 6/23/20 2:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > why would everything on the stacks panel of the standalone application
> > settings be disabled?
>
> It's disabled if you are building for mobile.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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datagrid delay hilite

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

i just put a new dg in a mobile app (was using the mergDGScroller before),
and noticed that the auto-hilite is very fast, like so fast that the dg
selects the row instead of recognizing that what you're really trying to do
is scroll.
has anyone resolved that?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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Re: stacks panel in standalone application settings disabled

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

why would it be disabled in the first place?

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 5:42 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yeah. But you can disable the mobile build(s) and add the files and then
> re-enable mobile.
> Seems like the wrong interface but it works.
>
> On 6/23/20 4:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > uh, isn't that a problem if you have behaviors included and you need to
> add
> > or remove some?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:57 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/23/20 2:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> why would everything on the stacks panel of the standalone application
> >>> settings be disabled?
> >>
> >> It's disabled if you are building for mobile.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> >> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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Re: datagrid delay hilite

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

nm, the datagrid library uses
mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "delayTouches", "false"
instead of true.  bug report issued.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 5:30 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> i just put a new dg in a mobile app (was using the mergDGScroller before),
> and noticed that the auto-hilite is very fast, like so fast that the dg
> selects the row instead of recognizing that what you're really trying to do
> is scroll.
> has anyone resolved that?
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: datagrid delay hilite

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

dunno, not using android.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:48 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Setting (mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "delayTouches", "true") to make it
> easier to scroll without getting the mouseDown message unintentionally is
> iOS only. What is the solution for Android?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 8:59 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Mike Kerner
> Subject: Re: datagrid delay hilite
>
> nm, the datagrid library uses
> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "delayTouches", "false"
> instead of true.  bug report issued.
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 5:30 PM Mike Kerner 
> wrote:
>
> > i just put a new dg in a mobile app (was using the mergDGScroller
> > before), and noticed that the auto-hilite is very fast, like so fast
> > that the dg selects the row instead of recognizing that what you're
> > really trying to do is scroll.
> > has anyone resolved that?
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second
> > day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day,
> God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: stacks panel in standalone application settings disabled

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

what's really weird is even if you turn on the other platforms, it stays
disabled.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 2:47 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 6/24/20 7:26 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > why would it be disabled in the first place?
>
> That's a question for the LC gods. It might have been necessary before we
> had script-only
> stacks and just hasn't been changed since then. Or it's a bug. Or it's
> just a fluke of the
> universe.
>
> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 5:42 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah. But you can disable the mobile build(s) and add the files and then
> >> re-enable mobile.
> >> Seems like the wrong interface but it works.
> >>
> >> On 6/23/20 4:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> uh, isn't that a problem if you have behaviors included and you need to
> >> add
> >>> or remove some?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:57 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 6/23/20 2:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>>> why would everything on the stacks panel of the standalone
> application
> >>>>> settings be disabled?
> >>>>
> >>>> It's disabled if you are building for mobile.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> >>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: iOS - open next field?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

yep.
use the on inputReturnKey event
then mobileControlTarget() to get the current field
You need to know what the next field is to get the focus, then you use
use mobileControlDo (next object),"focus"

I generally have a handler in the card to do this, and I also generally
have a list of the fieldnames in a container because I need the list for
database work, and for things like creating the native fields when the card
opens and setting their properties.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:31 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is there a way you activate and utilize the "prev" and "next" button on
> iOS keyboards?   You know, these buttons:
>
> https://i.stack.imgur.com/FzrPy.png
>
> If you have more than one text field on a card, we want to "tab" between
> fields.
>
> -Dan
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: iOS - open next field?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

oh, wait, I thought you meant the return key, or in your photo, the "go",
key.
nothing to see here, move along, move along.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 10:40 AM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> yep.
> use the on inputReturnKey event
> then mobileControlTarget() to get the current field
> You need to know what the next field is to get the focus, then you use
> use mobileControlDo (next object),"focus"
>
> I generally have a handler in the card to do this, and I also generally
> have a list of the fieldnames in a container because I need the list for
> database work, and for things like creating the native fields when the card
> opens and setting their properties.
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:31 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way you activate and utilize the "prev" and "next" button on
>> iOS keyboards?   You know, these buttons:
>>
>> https://i.stack.imgur.com/FzrPy.png
>>
>> If you have more than one text field on a card, we want to "tab" between
>> fields.
>>
>> -Dan
>>
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: OAuth2 was Re: google sheets - anybody doing anything besides mergGoogle

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I got impatient/spooked so we went another direction.  I think we're going
to use other tools.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:00 AM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> Brian Milby put me on to the solution for the OAuth problem:
> > Check out bug 22557 / PR 7381.
> > Line 247 of oath2.livecodescript need urlEncode removed
>
> Are you still interested in this, or are you covered now?
>
> regards,
>
> Ben
>
> On 11/03/2020 20:45, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > I haven't forgotten, but finally found time to take a look today and
> started
> > writing minimal comments, and thought I should at least test it - for
> some
> > reason the authorisation isn't working. For whatever reason, the call to
> > OAuth2 results in the error "Malformed auth code." So I can't get to
> test what
> > I'm sending.
> >
> > I'm unclear whether I've done something strange or wrong, or whether
> Google
> > has changed something that breaks LC's implementation. I've come across
> > references which suggest that, but they date back to last year, and I
> believe
> > I've used this stack in January. (I also tried using LC 9.0.4 with the
> same
> > result.)
> >
> > I will try to get back to this. In the meantime, have you - or anyone -
> found
> > issues recently with OAuth2, in particular against any of the Google
> APIs?
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> > On 08/03/2020 22:22, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >> it might help us get started.  i'm going to probably put out an rfq to
> wrap
> >> the v4 rest api, because we're going to have to come to a solution,
> either
> >> using lc or some other tool.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 6:01 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Mike,
> >>>
> >>> Very happy to share what I've got, but it's really not much - just a
> very
> >>> thin
> >>> wrapper round Google's API - and it's undocumented, mostly rough code -
> >>> copied
> >>> from one stack to the next, usually done in a tearing hurry!
> >>>
> >>> I'll try to pull something together, but please promise not to judge
> me...
> >>>
> >>> Ben
> >>>
> >>> On 06/03/2020 15:13, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>> Ben,
> >>>> would you send me what you've got?  I was considering paying someone
> to
> >>>> wrap the entire v4 api and dropping mergGoogle, so any head start
> would
> >>> be
> >>>> useful.  LC wants tribute to do the work (which is a little
> disappointing
> >>>> since we financed the original external, so we sort-of hoped that it
> >>> would
> >>>> become a thing, and it would get updated as required, but crap
> happens).
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 6:04 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> >>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 04/03/2020 20:37, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >>>>>> is anyone using anything besides mergGoogle to work with google
> sheets?
> >>>>>> care to share, if you are?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm just using the Google Sheets API directly from LiveCode - just
> >>> pushing
> >>>>> JSON back and forth. The API is limited, but what's there is very
> easy
> >>> to
> >>>>> work
> >>>>> with - much better than manipulating xlsx files.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I started using it to get data from clients, and then processing data
> >>> and
> >>>>> pushing it back into the sheets. I've also used on some experimental
> >>> image
> >>>>> processing, where I found that pushing the results of LiveCode
> functions
> >>>>> into
> >>>>> a google sheet immediately gave me an nice interface in which to
> review
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> data, and then I could also use the spreadsheet functions to do
> >>> evaluation
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> testing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ben
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Google API Oauth - refresh tokens?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm pretty sure that refresh tokens are used with service accounts (the
account has its own authorization so that it can do things, but it does not
have its own storage or documents).  Authentication is more involved,
including, for instance, generating a JWT which has to be built and sent to
Google during the authorization process to obtain the access token, and
then hourly to obtain the refresh token.  I never got the JWT signed
properly, and I haven't played with it since we got this process working in
another tool that we use.
I'd be interested in seeing your code when you're done.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 5:09 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Back in 2018 when I was originally working with Google sheets, the OAuth
> authorisation once granted seemed to refresh automatically.
>
> That is, if a call returned the 'unauthorised' error, calling OAuth with
> the
> same parameters would briefly display a sheet dialog, but it would go away
> automatically.
>
> Then I finished working on that project, and when six months I briefly
> looked
> at this again, fell victim to bug #22557.
>
> Now that this is fixed, I'm happily working with the system again (and
> will
> shortly release my code in case it's of use to anyone) - but now when the
> authorisation expires (which is does after an hour or so), calling Oauth2
> goes
> through the process requiring user activity.
>
> There's an OAuth2Refresh command in LiveCode; but the issue is that I
> don't
> get a refresh token from the Google API. From my reading of the docs, only
> certain kinds of app registered with Google get refresh tokens - but I
> don't
> seem to be able to figure this out.
>
> Has anyone managed to register an app with Google (in
> https://console.developers.google.com/apis/) in a way that means it gets
> refresh tokens?
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

this has always been a problem with multiple development tools, at least
for as long as I can remember x-platform development tools and WYSIWYG
being a thing, so Win 95, and MacOS 6 or 7 (uh...7?).  I agree it would be
great if LC would try harder, since the goal is to make the developer's
life easier, and if the mantra and the goal is to design it/lay it out/code
it once, then that should be what you get.
some development tools have gone so far as to use style sheets, so on one
platform you have different sizes (or different fonts) to accommodate the
issues, but i'm not a fan.  there are too many exceptions to the rule, and
you're always chasing "good enough", which is "good enough", until you rap
your knuckles on the next exception.
at least for us, the easiest thing to do has been to size objects for the
mac, because we have found that on the mac, fonts render slightly larger,
and therefore wrap or overflow.  then when we port to windoze, things are
ok.

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 9:29 AM Richmond via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Well; let's consider that suggestion:
>
> 1. The Holy Grail was an abstract idea dreamt up by the Knights Templars.
>
> 2. Most people have worked out by the time they are about 35 that
> perfection is a dangerous illusion.
>
> 3. "Years of hell": Why do you suppose the OP has stuck with LiveCode
> for the length of time he has if it has been 'hell'?
>
> 4. "find another language that will do exactly what you want" . . .
> ouch, I hurt my leg falling off the chair with laughter.
>
> 5. Why do I get a "funny feeling" that by calling yourself 'Paul
> Pystcat' you are an undercover agent pushing Python (a language
> which I could say one or two "fruity" things about)?
>
> 6. The OP is NOT a fool; that is quite obvious from his previous
> postings over a number of years, and he would not be
> posting the sort of thing he posted if he were considering abandonong
> LiveCode.
>
> 7. Err . . . on the subject of rants and "squishes" . . .
>
> On 25.08.20 16:11, Paul Pystcat via use-livecode wrote:
> > I really have to ask…  if you are having such problems that are so
> insurmountable using LiveCode, then why not just abandon ship…?
> Seriously.  If this is such a showstopper, why not find another language
> that will do exactly what you want..?  Don’t waste any more of your time.
> Do it.  You may find the Holy Grail and all will be well… you can look back
> on your years of hell with LiveCode and laugh at us that remain.
> >
> >> On Aug 25, 2020, at 6:01 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Not Fridge, Fork.
> >>
> >> I assume (dangerously) from your reply that you do not have to make
> real world applications for corporate branded customers. Where design has
> been done by a branding team with a 12 - 120 page Production guide).
> Someone like the BBC, Channel 4, NBC, or their subsidiaries. Like Saatchi
> and Saatchi, Mars, Ford, Pfizer, Virgin, VTech, Bandai.
> >>
> >> My case study this project. Two week turnaround (first week primary
> development wireframed , second week skin and output for Windows(primary
> output)/Mac(Backup)). Tv gameshow multiscreen (some split across multiple
> screens themselves) for live recording screen graphics. 35 cards (or
> frames, pages, slides, whatever you want to call them) plus video inserts
> all with live updated content input by a controller on a remote machine (pc
> or Mac as they see fit on the day) as the show progresses.
> >>
> >> As the platform my POC and his office colleagues was using was a PC it
> made sense to do development in Windows for output to PC and Mac for studio
> techs to pick from based on location around the studio (the gallery for
> controllers, back stage and stage floor). It is arse-umed that how it looks
> on Windows is how it should look on any other platform we distribute to
> including the various output sizes (1024x576SD, 960x540HHD, 1920x1080HD,
> 3840x2160 4k). Everything has to match to the pixel. That’s how branding
> works. We have no issue with that moving between platforms in editing and
> graphics platforms, so post production facilities (mine included) could not
> conceive or perceive that it would be any different in a development
> environment. Design it in photoshop on a pc and send it to your colleagues
> working in After Effects on a Mac and send it back to an editor on a PC
> running Premiere and it looks the same end to end. That is ‘just the way it
> is’!
> >>
> >> So, after developing at a stupid rate, 12 solid 14-18hr days, we have
> the finished app layered out (don’t get me back on the layering embargo),
> animated with text & graphic moves and effects, ready for deployment out to
> Mac and PC. Tick the boxes in the standalone settings, build and open in
> their respective platforms.
> >>
> >> Only to find that everything you had laid out perfectly matching on PC
> is totally screwed on the Mac. Opening up the stack on the Ma

Re: Basic question about behaviors

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

i like "this me" less and less every time i read it.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 11:30 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Wouldn’t it just be “me”?  And “this me” should be the behavior object.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 24, 2020, at 11:19 PM, prothero--- via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have assigned a behavior to a button. The behavior button/source is
> on a different stack. It works fine. But a click on a movie player, on the
> same card, triggers the mouseUp handler in the behavior, which I don’t want
> to happen. It seems odd that this would happen, but I need to fix it.
> >
> > My solution is to test whether the target is the button, or something
> else. I solved it by trapping the mouseUp message in a script on the
> player. However, I was trying to figure out how to get the behavior to give
> me the source/origin of the mouseUp message. I can get the name of the card
> using “the owner” but can’t seem to find the right syntax to get the name
> of the button that the behavior is attached to.
> >
> > This is probably trivial, but I’d appreciate any help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > William A. Prothero
> > Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> > http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
> >
> > ___
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Basic question about behaviors

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 12:41 PM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I LOVE 'this me'. This extraordinary use of coding language is truly where
> LC  shines and why I love it so much, - sometimes. [sigh]
>
> Sean
>

and that's why your fonts break - because you "LOVE" - not "love", not
"Love", not "l-o-l-o-l-o-v-e", but "LOVE" "this me".
you're welcome.
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Hacktoberfest is coming

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

It's just over a month away, this year's Hacktoberfest
If you have or know of a LC repo that would appreciate some love, please
put it here, and let's see if we can get some folks involved in
participating in making the LC universe a better place.

In case you have no idea what I'm talking about, Hacktoberfest is an annual
festival run on Github.  It rewards people who participate by submitting
pull requests (usually 3) with some swag like t-shirts, stickers, etc.

You have to sign up for it for your PR's to qualify.
ANY PR to a public repo qualifies.  So, if you fix some LC documentation
and submit a PR, it counts.  If you fix the way the datagrid handles
scrolling on mobile, it counts.  If you add some badass feature to Levure,
it counts.

Please discuss, here, add a repo and/or an update that you would like to
see to a particular repo (include a link to the repo), and let's see if we
can get a bunch of LC Hackers, this year.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: DataGrid 2 swipe actions

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

name's mikey.  y'all can call me...
mikey

howdy.

i think it was just one line of code, too, right?  it was just a matter of
setting the delayTouches to true.  i have no idea why it was originally
"false".

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:39 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 8/26/20 9:36 PM, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > The highlighted row when scrolling is a separate bug patched by Mike
> Wieder  https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22798 <
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22798> awaiting a GitHub
> merge, but turning on delayTouches makes the swipe animation jerky because
> the scroller has to decide if it’s scrolling first so the swipe controls
> aren’t very responsive. Would be curious if these two things can live in
> harmony. Any DG2 advice?
>
> That's actually Mike Kerner's fix. I just added a comment. Or two.
> Trying to prioritize getting it looked at.
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
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Re: DataGrid 2 swipe actions

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Don't be telling me about "well structured commit titles".  There is
nothing clear in that title, unless British is your first language, and
English is your second, and in British we add an "s" on the ends of every
singulars nouns, and peoples speak with a lisps.
In the meantime(s), setting the delayTouches to false(s) on a DG(s) breaks
scrolling(s), thus my PR(s), from however-long-ago it(s) was. :-P
Tag.  You(s)'re it(s)

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:17 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2020-08-27 17:07, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > name's mikey.  y'all can call me...
> > mikey
> >
> > howdy.
> >
> > i think it was just one line of code, too, right?  it was just a matter
> > of
> > setting the delayTouches to true.  i have no idea why it was originally
> > "false".
>
> Well, the advantage of generally trying to make sure all substantive
> changes made to the source have well structured commit titles and decent
> descriptions in the body means its easy to find out by grokking `git
> log` :D
>
> It was changed precisely because of the issues Andrew pointed out with
> DG2, specifically in this commit:
>
> commit ac1beee1dd113e203b6715fe472cf2fa88656bd5
> Author: Michael McCreary 
> Date:   Thu Dec 21 12:49:26 2017 +
>
>  [[ DataGrid 2 ]] Fix drags to cooperate with the mobile scroller.
>
>  Previously, a data grid's mobile scroller was getting in the way of
>  reorder and swipe actions.
>
>  To fix for reordering, we disable the scroller whenn the user clicks
>  on a reorder control (and re-enable it when the reorder completes).
>
>  Swipes are a little trickier. We track dragging on mouse down, but
>  disabling the scroller at this point will prevent all scrolling.
>  Instead we attempt to determine if the user is trying to drag the
>  row before disabling the scroller.
>
> I'd need to do some more digging to see if the highlight on touch has
> actually been caused by something else since  as I don't recall it being
> an issue, or noticed when DG2 debuted - but I could be wrong. Especially
> more since Android has never had a delayTouches mode.
>
> Either this problem also affects Android, which means turning
> delayTouches on is not really an option (given the negative consequences
> to DG2 behavior); or it doesn't affect Android in which case something
> else has changed (potentially in the iOS scroller control itself).
>
> I suspect we will just need a short timer on mouse down so that it only
> triggers a highlight *if* a scroll message isn't received within the
> interval of the timer.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>


-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: DataGrid 2 swipe actions

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22798
i submitted a PR as well.
If you do a Show Package Contents on the LC binary, then navigate to
Content->Tools->/Toolset->palettes->revdatagridlibrary
and open "behaviorsdatagridbuttonbehavior.livecodescript"
change line 371 to
mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "delayTouches", "true"


On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 4:33 PM JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> you have to check the bug quality site for that and search for the DG2
> I know there was a fix for the ID thingy, if i understand correctly what
> you ask.
> because if i remember correct the ID created by the dg scroller was not
> 'detectable'
> But to be sure on it check the quality site or one of the releasenotes when
> the DG2 came out
>
> Op do 27 aug. 2020 om 21:58 schreef Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via
> use-livecode :
>
> > My apologies to Mike AND Mark on the misquote, and *bump* to this bug. I
> > had too many QC tabs open for bugs, am I right? ;)
> >
> > Is there a way to send a mobileControlSet “delayTouches” command to the
> > scroller created? I wasn’t sure how to get the ID since the DataGrid code
> > made the scroller.
> >
> > -Andrew Bell
> >
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: DataGrid 2 swipe actions
> > > Message-ID: <166ab8a2-7e58-2303-4d72-f366960d9...@sonic.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> > >
> > > On 8/26/20 9:36 PM, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The highlighted row when scrolling is a separate bug patched by Mike
> > Wieder  https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22798 <
> > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22798> awaiting a GitHub
> > merge, but turning on delayTouches makes the swipe animation jerky
> because
> > the scroller has to decide if it?s scrolling first so the swipe controls
> > aren?t very responsive. Would be curious if these two things can live in
> > harmony. Any DG2 advice?
> > >
> > > That's actually Mike Kerner's fix. I just added a comment. Or two.
> > > Trying to prioritize getting it looked at.
> > >
> > > --
> > >  Mark Wieder
> > >  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: DataGrid 2 swipe actions

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

are you sure that's a good idea?  michael's PR breaks mobile scrolling.
 i'm all ears on how mobile scrolling can work without delayTouches set to
true.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 4:24 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Heh - well I said ‘well structured’ not ‘literary’...
>
> Although that being said, the ‘singular’ noun ‘drag’ has a plural and I
> believe it is ‘drags’...
>
> e.g. ‘It took several drags of her long fingernails down the blackboard to
> make the class pay attention’ ;)
>
> If your fix works for you - great...
>
> Unfortunately it breaks some functionality for others so isn’t mergeable
> as it stands.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 27 Aug 2020, at 20:58, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Don't be telling me about "well structured commit titles".  There is
> > nothing clear in that title, unless British is your first language, and
> > English is your second, and in British we add an "s" on the ends of every
> > singulars nouns, and peoples speak with a lisps.
> > In the meantime(s), setting the delayTouches to false(s) on a DG(s)
> breaks
> > scrolling(s), thus my PR(s), from however-long-ago it(s) was. :-P
> > Tag.  You(s)'re it(s)
> >
> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:17 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2020-08-27 17:07, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> name's mikey.  y'all can call me...
> >>> mikey
> >>>
> >>> howdy.
> >>>
> >>> i think it was just one line of code, too, right?  it was just a matter
> >>> of
> >>> setting the delayTouches to true.  i have no idea why it was originally
> >>> "false".
> >>
> >> Well, the advantage of generally trying to make sure all substantive
> >> changes made to the source have well structured commit titles and decent
> >> descriptions in the body means its easy to find out by grokking `git
> >> log` :D
> >>
> >> It was changed precisely because of the issues Andrew pointed out with
> >> DG2, specifically in this commit:
> >>
> >> commit ac1beee1dd113e203b6715fe472cf2fa88656bd5
> >> Author: Michael McCreary 
> >> Date:   Thu Dec 21 12:49:26 2017 +
> >>
> >> [[ DataGrid 2 ]] Fix drags to cooperate with the mobile scroller.
> >>
> >> Previously, a data grid's mobile scroller was getting in the way of
> >> reorder and swipe actions.
> >>
> >> To fix for reordering, we disable the scroller whenn the user clicks
> >> on a reorder control (and re-enable it when the reorder completes).
> >>
> >> Swipes are a little trickier. We track dragging on mouse down, but
> >> disabling the scroller at this point will prevent all scrolling.
> >> Instead we attempt to determine if the user is trying to drag the
> >> row before disabling the scroller.
> >>
> >> I'd need to do some more digging to see if the highlight on touch has
> >> actually been caused by something else since  as I don't recall it being
> >> an issue, or noticed when DG2 debuted - but I could be wrong. Especially
> >> more since Android has never had a delayTouches mode.
> >>
> >> Either this problem also affects Android, which means turning
> >> delayTouches on is not really an option (given the negative consequences
> >> to DG2 behavior); or it doesn't affect Android in which case something
> >> else has changed (potentially in the iOS scroller control itself).
> >>
> >> I suspect we will just need a short timer on mouse down so that it only
> >> triggers a highlight *if* a scroll message isn't received within the
> >> interval of the timer.
> >>
> >> Warmest Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
&

Re: DataGrid 2 swipe actions

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I don't think so.  The scroller is a separate native object that overlays
the rest of the interface.  On desktop, the scrolling is handled by the
object with the scrollbar.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 5:09 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is there not a way to just disable the scrollbar (hide it?) and still have
> scrolling enabled? I am trying to do something similar in iOS and thought I
> would try:
>
> set the dgprop["show vscrollbar"] of group "Datagrid 1" to false
> set the dgProp["scroll when vscrollbar is hidden"] of group "DataGrid 1"
> to true
>
> And while it worked as desired in the development environment and when
> compiling to macOS (by hiding the scrollbar and allowing swipes to scroll
> the list), when compiled to iOS no scrolling was possible at all?
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On Aug 27, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >Previously, a data grid's mobile scroller was getting in the way of
> >reorder and swipe actions.
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Layers in PBrowser

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

The pb sucks.
however, HACKTOERFEST IS COMING!  Issue some PR's to fix the PB in
Hacktober, get some swag...
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Re: Hacktoberfest is coming

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

there isn't any reason why we can't have a fork of the ide that doesn't sit
around waiting for themuns to say "ok".

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 1:36 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> H. good question Mark...I certainly don't want to do any work thats
> going to sit there for a year+
>
> Maybe someone from the mothership can give a yay or nay.
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:55 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > On 8/27/20 9:05 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >
> > > Please discuss, here, add a repo and/or an update that you would like
> to
> > > see to a particular repo (include a link to the repo), and let's see if
> > we
> > > can get a bunch of LC Hackers, this year.
> > >
> >
> > Kind of an exercise in futility, though, no?
> > I submitted... let's see... (goes off and counts)... nine pull requests
> > against LC last October (two for the engine, seven for the IDE) and
> > they're still sitting in the hopper waiting to be reviewed.
> > Why bother "fixing" things when nobody's paying attention?
> >
> > (the above is somewhat rhetorical since I just submitted another PR
> > earlier today.. not that I expect any action on it)
> >
> > --
> >   Mark Wieder
> >   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> Tom Glod
> Founder & Developer
> MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
> Mobile:647.562.9411
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Hacktoberfest is coming

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

it's not the engine, it's the ide portion, which is not binary.
in addition, as it is a fork, it would be maintained in parallel with the
LC version, so when LC releases an update, beta or otherwise to the ide,
you would merge it into the fork, and review all the diffs.
in some other projects, the community fork thus becomes the major branch
and the community becomes the major maintainers of the fork.
i'm not saying it's easy, and i am by no means volunteering to do it.  it's
a suggestion for the community to consider:  if we are jointly frustrated
with LC's IDE and the progress it is making, especially in accepting and
integrating PR's, then we do have the option of forking it, perhaps for the
purpose of fast-tracking updates, experimental features, etc.
things that might appeal to an audience of developers:
* PR's issued for open bug reports, e.g. mobile scrolling (PR issued
in...June, I think?)
* Project Browser
* Code folding
* Speed in the script editor
It's not like there aren't multiple independent projects going on that
couldn't make this effort better.  Some of those are:
Navigator
Baker's Assistant
Any of Bernd's proposed SE updates

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:21 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Mike Kerner wrote:
>
>  > there isn't any reason why we can't have a fork of the ide that
>  > doesn't sit around waiting for themuns to say "ok".
>
> I've considered this myself, but maintaining something as complex as
> LC's IDE is no small task.  In fact, I'm finding it less time consuming
> to replace portions as I need them than to prowl around in that complex
> code.
>
> But even if someone had the time for to maintain a fork of the IDE (and
> you might get some assistance on that from others if you do), engine
> pull requests would still be in queue with the mother ship.  Few in our
> community have the C++ skills to do serious work on the engine, and the
> GPL license would make using such a community project a non-starter for
> most license holders.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Hacktoberfest is coming

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

it's yours until you get a cease and desist letter.

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:06 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That's really an old saying?? I came up with the saying People don't
> change until it hurts not to. I thought I was being pithy.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 2020, at 13:40 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Like the old saying goes, "Change occurs when the pain of changing is
> finally exceeded by the pain of not changing."
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
>
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Hacktoberfest is coming

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

It's almost here - Hacktoberfest 2020!
And now registration is open
https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com
All you have to do is register, then make a total of four pull requests to
any public repo during the month of October.
Pull requests can be updating LiveCode's documentation, making a
contribution to any of the many liveCode related open source projects, or
for that matter, any open source project on GitHub
If you complete four pull requests, you will be able to choose to receive a
Hacktoberfest 2020 T-shirt or have event organizers plant a tree in your
name.
Read the blog post here :
https://www.digitalocean.com/blog/announcing-hacktoberfest-2020/
Get
To
HACKING



On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 10:16 AM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> it's yours until you get a cease and desist letter.
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:06 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> That's really an old saying?? I came up with the saying People don't
>> change until it hurts not to. I thought I was being pithy.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 3, 2020, at 13:40 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Like the old saying goes, "Change occurs when the pain of changing is
>> finally exceeded by the pain of not changing."
>> >
>> > --
>> > Richard Gaskin
>> > Fourth World Systems
>>
>>
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Hacktoberfest is coming

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

and it's the first day of hacktoberfest
so get your fingers over to https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com to
register
then make four pull requests during october, and score a free 2020
hacktoberfest t-shirt
update the LC IDE!  improve something in the docs!  make mobile datagrids
work for both scrolling and dragging!
any any any any public repo on github will do

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 7:56 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> It's almost here - Hacktoberfest 2020!
> And now registration is open
> https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com
> All you have to do is register, then make a total of four pull requests to
> any public repo during the month of October.
> Pull requests can be updating LiveCode's documentation, making a
> contribution to any of the many liveCode related open source projects, or
> for that matter, any open source project on GitHub
> If you complete four pull requests, you will be able to choose to receive
> a Hacktoberfest 2020 T-shirt or have event organizers plant a tree in your
> name.
> Read the blog post here :
> https://www.digitalocean.com/blog/announcing-hacktoberfest-2020/
> Get
> To
> HACKING
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 10:16 AM Mike Kerner 
> wrote:
>
>> it's yours until you get a cease and desist letter.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:06 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's really an old saying?? I came up with the saying People don't
>>> change until it hurts not to. I thought I was being pithy.
>>>
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Sep 3, 2020, at 13:40 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Like the old saying goes, "Change occurs when the pain of changing is
>>> finally exceeded by the pain of not changing."
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Richard Gaskin
>>> > Fourth World Systems
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: reading QR-code on Mac from an imported image

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

why not ask LC if they will compile the external from ios to macos?

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:43 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Right, no idea. I've heard the barcode reader can read QR codes but that
> requires camera access and is for scanning external images. I've never
> heard of a utility that can read the binary content of an image to
> interpret a code.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On November 23, 2020 8:27:03 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> > No idea? Anyone?
> >
> >> Am 20.11.2020 um 19:16 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode
> >> :
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> ist is possible to read the QR-code from an imported image
> >> on the Mac? If yes, how?
> >> The dictionary did not really enlighten me...
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >>
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Klaus
> >
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > https://www.major-k.de
> > kl...@major-k.de
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
>
>
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On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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apns

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

has anyone worked out the new way to do apns?  since apple is dumping the
old way...

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: New MacBook Pro Results

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

the good news is that both are just normal stacks (as is tmControls/2), so
you should be able to fix them.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 3:27 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thought some of you might like to know, LC 6.0 works fine in MacOS Big Sur
> on the new MacBook Pro. The only problem I’ve encountered so far is a minor
> glitch with Scott Rossi’s tmEffects and tmAlign, my favorite plugins. They
> both now display a slightly larger white backdrop. Annoying, but they work
> just fine. I sure do miss Scott!
>
> Roger
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-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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USA OSHA ITA Reporting

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

For anyone in the USA who is subject to OSHA's ITA reporting, have you
implemented a solution that you would be willing to share?
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Re: USA OSHA ITA Reporting

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

rick,
ITA reporting is not new.  it has been a requirement for years.  we
generally just upload a csv.  i didn't realize there was an API for using
it, so I immediately became interested.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 12:26 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> How many employees do you have?
>
> Their website is a bit confusing just
> as other government websites.
>
> Some of it refers to having more than 250
> employees, and I also saw something
> about 19 or more.
>
> If you are a small shop you may not
> have to submit anything.
>
> Rick
>
> > On Mar 4, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > For anyone in the USA who is subject to OSHA's ITA reporting, have you
> > implemented a solution that you would be willing to share?
> > ___
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: USA OSHA ITA Reporting

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Well, I see that what I meant to ask and what I actually asked were not the
same thing.  What I meant to ask was whether anyone has implemented the ITA
API.  Sorry that was not clear.
No, we do not have a solution.  Since you don't use ITA, I'm not going to
go into details, besides saying that ITA is broken, and the only suggestion
that the help desk has supplied is "keep trying", even though the site has
been broken for a week, and may no be fixed in the foreseeable future.  As
I'm assuming that, like you, most people have not heard of ITA, we're
slogging through the API, now.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:59 AM Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> You could have led with that information.
>
> You aren’t new to the process, and you
> have one solution, and a possible second.
> What do you need?
>
> Are you trying to find an app that already
> uses the API?
>
> Rick
>
> > On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > rick,
> > ITA reporting is not new.  it has been a requirement for years.  we
> > generally just upload a csv.  i didn't realize there was an API for using
> > it, so I immediately became interested.
> >
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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inputEndEditing out of sequence?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Can someone else test this?
9.6.0 ios
create a native field
have a button that navigates to another card
in the script of the card with the field put an onInputEditing handler
enter something into the native field
hit the button
does the onInputEditing fire before or after the card transition?
For me, it is firing after the card transition.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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ios field widget

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm working on moving a tmc2 project to widgets and I noticed for the first
time that there isn't an ios field widget. There's an android field widget
and an macos field widget, but no ios field widget.
Obviously we can code one out, but does someone have a widget? Are there
any widget collections? Bonus points - are there x-platform UI widgets?
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dg with native controls in template

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Let's say we want to have a scrolling area, like a DG, and we want one of
the columns in that thing to be a native radio button on mobile, which we
can activate with touch.
I'm not aware of a way to do that in LC at present.
Yes?
No?
Maybe so?
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Re: dg with native controls in template

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

not a terrible idea.
We could probably also just set the hilite of a row.
Something I've never tried: different hilite colors based on values in the
rows...

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 3:48 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You can put an SVG Icon or a graphic image into a DG column, would either
> of those work? Then you just need to script the behaviour of the widget or
> graphic when it’s tapped on. I do something similar with check and uncheck
> SVG icons.
>
> > On Apr 29, 2021, at 8:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Let's say we want to have a scrolling area, like a DG, and we want one of
> > the columns in that thing to be a native radio button on mobile, which we
> > can activate with touch.
> > I'm not aware of a way to do that in LC at present.
> > Yes?
> > No?
> > Maybe so?
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: dg with native controls in template

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

The layering was what I was concerned about, too.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 1:24 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I’m going to say that with the way the DG manages controls it would be an
> uphill battle to get something native to work.  One of the native widgets
> may work, but I have not purchased that set to test it out.  The one
> potential issue would be layers.  Since native controls layer on top of LC
> controls, if the control was supposed to be partially visible it may be
> fully visible (not sure if the group would clip it properly).
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 30, 2021, at 9:47 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > not a terrible idea.
> > We could probably also just set the hilite of a row.
> > Something I've never tried: different hilite colors based on values in
> the
> > rows...
> >
> >> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 3:48 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> You can put an SVG Icon or a graphic image into a DG column, would
> either
> >> of those work? Then you just need to script the behaviour of the widget
> or
> >> graphic when it’s tapped on. I do something similar with check and
> uncheck
> >> SVG icons.
> >>
> >>> On Apr 29, 2021, at 8:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Let's say we want to have a scrolling area, like a DG, and we want one
> of
> >>> the columns in that thing to be a native radio button on mobile, which
> we
> >>> can activate with touch.
> >>> I'm not aware of a way to do that in LC at present.
> >>> Yes?
> >>> No?
> >>> Maybe so?
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
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> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
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> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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9.6.2 rc5/xcode 12.1 ipad simulator

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm getting an error when trying to fire up the simulator:
"Booting available device failed with error:  Boot a device"
In case I was missing a simulator, I fired up XC and then made sure that
the ios simulator for 14.0 was installed, but no joy.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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9.6.0 simulator issue

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Since 9.6.2 is giving me issues, I decided to try the simulator in 9.6.0.
That is giving me
"Unable to start simulator: 634,0,0,unknown
C++ exception
573,263,1,revPhoneSetSimulatorSDK"

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: 9.6.0 simulator issue

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

what do you mean - reloaded as in reinstalled xcode or just restarted LC?

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:39 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I have seen this problem as well, rebooted, reloaded everything and it
> worked. You might want to try that. Simulator first, then load the app and
> try the Test button.
>
> Mark
>
> > On May 7, 2021, at 7:28 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Since 9.6.2 is giving me issues, I decided to try the simulator in 9.6.0.
> > That is giving me
> > "Unable to start simulator: 634,0,0,unknown
> > C++ exception
> > 573,263,1,revPhoneSetSimulatorSDK"
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: 9.6.0 simulator issue

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

otay, let's see:
quitting LC and restarting seems to get it over the hump.

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:41 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> what do you mean - reloaded as in reinstalled xcode or just restarted LC?
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:39 PM Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I have seen this problem as well, rebooted, reloaded everything and it
>> worked. You might want to try that. Simulator first, then load the app and
>> try the Test button.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> > On May 7, 2021, at 7:28 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Since 9.6.2 is giving me issues, I decided to try the simulator in
>> 9.6.0.
>> > That is giving me
>> > "Unable to start simulator: 634,0,0,unknown
>> > C++ exception
>> > 573,263,1,revPhoneSetSimulatorSDK"
>> >
>> > --
>> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>> >   and did a little diving.
>> > And God said, "This is good."
>> > ___
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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navbar pre hiliteChanged

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

How do you handle the situation where a user taps on the navBar but you
want to intercept and cancel it?
Example: User clicks on the navBar to switch cards, but there is an error
on the existing card, so the navigation and the hilite changing should be
stopped.
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Re: navbar pre hiliteChanged

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

memo for the next person who discovers this thread:
1. as has been previously discussed in other threads, the navigation bar
receives the hiliteChanged message even if the hilite does not change
(which happens when the user taps on the currently hilited segment)
2. in my testing in 9.6.x, if you set/reset the hilitedItem or the
hilitedItemName early enough in the handler, most of the time that will
take effect before the screen redraws, so the user will not see the blink
from the original tap. it's not perfect, but it might be good enough.

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 12:47 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> How do you handle the situation where a user taps on the navBar but you
> want to intercept and cancel it?
> Example: User clicks on the navBar to switch cards, but there is an error
> on the existing card, so the navigation and the hilite changing should be
> stopped.
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: XCode command line tools 12

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I disagree with not putting it in your applications folder. What I will do,
instead, is rename the folder to "XCode"+version

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 8:09 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This has worked for me.
>
> 1) Never upgrade or install Xcode from the app store.
> 2) Download from developer site.
> 3) NEVER put xcode.app in the Applications folder.
> 4) I made a new folder with all the Xcode versions I need. Rename every
> download with a version number suffix.
> 5) Open up downloaded versions after rename. This will finish the
> installation.
> 6) Now for the magic at command prompt:
> This will show what tools LC will use for building==> xcode-select
> --print-path
> This will set the tools that LC will use for building==> sudo xcpde-slect
> -switch "path to xcode.app version to build with"
>
> You will see if the version of Xcode is supported on your version of Mac OS
> when doing step 5 above.
> In setting On the "mobile support" pane of prefs you can add several
> version
> of Xcode to support older simulators and sdks
>
> I have Xcode 8.2.1, 9.2, 10.1 and 11.3.1 on my Mojave Mac. This give me
> 10.2,11.2,21.1 and 13.1 simulators.
>
> I will be upgrading to Catalina shortly. Why, because I have to...
>
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:09 PM
> To: LiveCode Mailing List
> Cc: J. Landman Gay
> Subject: XCode command line tools 12
>
> I'm still debating what to do about XCode on a Mojave machine. Couple of
> questions:
>
> 1. LC says to use 12.1 but the latest command line tools are 12.5. Is 12.1
> specifically required or is a newer version okay? 12.1 was a GM seed but
> was
> quickly updated to 12.2.
>
> 2. The main question: I've downloaded the tools manually and I could run
> the
> package installer to install them. What would happen if I install the 12.x
> tools on a Mojave machine?
>
> Could I rename the old folder, install the new tools, and if it breaks, put
> the old folder back? Does anyone know if this will work, or do I need to
> make the plunge and see what happens?
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Implementing UNDO

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I _think_ that there might also be an undo manager built into levure, if
you are interested.

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 9:20 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Craig,
>
> > Am 21.05.2021 um 15:12 schrieb Craig Newman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Klaus.
> >
> > What are you doing here on the dark side??
>
> Oh, come on!
>
> > Do you mean something like this, with a field and a button?  in the card
> script:
> >
> > on textChanged
> > set the currentText of this cd to fld 1
> > end textChanged
> >
> > on undoText
> > get the currentText of this cd
> > delete the last word of it
> > set the text of fld 1 to it
> > set the currentText of this cd to it
> > end undoText
> >
> > and in the button:
> > on mouseUp
> >  undoText
> > end mouseUp
>
> OK, something like this, but for graphics, images etc., too. 8-)
> Some general hints will be OK.
>
> Except for TEXT I don't have a clue yet.
> Maybe store "the properties of xyz" and re-apply them when the user hits
> CMD-Z?
>
> > Craig
> >
> >> On May 21, 2021, at 7:48 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi friends,
> >>
> >> any hints on how to implement some UNDO mechanism into a LC standalone?
> >> The stack(s) in question will not only handle TEXT...
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
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Re: Implementing UNDO

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

fyi, for posterity, here is the link to the wiki for levure's undo manager
helper
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki/helper-undo_manager

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:34 PM David Epstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> LC’s built in undo does not appear to undo anything done by something I
> have scripted.
> My approach is to use a global array variable “u” to store information
> needed to undo the most recent action.  On each action, an “undoInit” puts
> empty into u, after (if necessary) cleaning up anything u’s values indicate
> is left over from the prior action (e.g., actually deleting an object that
> had been only “pseudo-deleted” (hidden) so as to make the user’s choice of
> deletion undoable).  Then the appropriate new values are loaded into u.
> The main elements I use are
>
> # u["cardID"] = short id of the card where the undoable action was taken
> # u["stackName"] = short name of the stack where the undoable action was
> taken
> # u["changed"], list of objects being changed, each line has:
> propName,objectID
> # u[propName,objectID] holds prior value of that property of that object
> (one key/value for each line of u["changed"]
> # u["removed"], list of objectID,cardID,stackName for objects being
> pseudo-removed
> # u["added"], list of objectID,cardID,stackName for objects being added
> # u["cardsRemoved"], list of cards being pseudo-removed, each line has:
> cardID,cardNumber
> # u["cardsAdded"], list of cards being added, each line has:
> cardID,cardNumber
>
> The “Undo” command makes sure we’re on card id u[“cardID”] of stack
> u[“stackName”}, then checks for non-empty values of
> u[“changed”],u[“removed”],u[“added”],u{“cardsRemoved”], and
> u[“cardsAdded”], and uses values stored in u to restore the prior state of
> things, while reloading u with values reporting the state of things now
> being reversed.
>
> For text, I load u[“changed”] with “htmlText”,, and load
> u[“htmlText”,] with the htmlText of that field before the latest
> editing.
>
> David Epstein
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Re: lock messages and navigation bar widget

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

"hilitedChanged" is currently the only message sent to the navbar
search the how list for "navbar pre hilitechanged" from a couple of weeks
ago, when I dealt with a similar issue.

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 3:11 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yes, I was impacted the same way a while back.  The lockMessages
> dictionary entry lists the messages that get locked and it is smaller than
> I expected.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 21, 2021, at 2:39 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> >> Am 21.05.2021 um 20:34 schrieb Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Works as expected/coded.
> >
> > hm, I had the naive thinking that "lock messages" would erm. lock the
> messages. und just change the icon. :-D
> > But this does obviously not apply to the navigation bar widget.
> >
> >> Not sure how it would be changed (don’t know how to get to that state
> inside the widget).
> >
> > OK, I just thought I was missing something.
> >
> >> Anyway, to work with this you need to have your handler check to see if
> it needs to run.  Pretty easy if using it to navigate between cards.  If
> already on the destination card, then exit the handler.
> >> Another way is to set a flag to skip the change handler before manually
> making the change in code.  Then when the handler starts, check for the
> flag before continuing.
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Klaus
> >
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > https://www.major-k.de
> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > kl...@major-k.de
> >
> >
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Re: bordercolor of buttons

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

i wish we had tmc3

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:09 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> looks like there is a (related) report already:
> 
>
> > Am 09.06.2021 um 14:49 schrieb Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hi Klaus,
> >
> > Very much a 'feature' in heavy inverted commas. I've tested as far back
> as
> > 5.0.2 and it has ALWAYS been this way. Round rect button borders are set
> > using the forecolor, not the border colour. If this were a 'bug' I'm sure
> > it would have been noted as such somewhere in the quality sub-site. It is
> > not a 'feature' that seems intuitive or even correct, but it is the way
> it
> > has always operated until now. Some 'incorrect' functionality just has to
> > remain the same to maintain the status quo. I, for one, however, would
> > prefer it if it were made consistent with other buttons. It is not clear
> > 'why' it is the way it is.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 09:09, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >>> Am 09.06.2021 um 05:35 schrieb Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >>>
> >>> Like Sean points out, this is caused by the “threeD” property being on.
> >>
> >> I was not talking about a button with its 3D is ON!
> >> Is nobody reading what I write?
> >>
> >> Create a button of type "roundrect"
> >> Uncheck 3D
> >> Set its BORDERCOLOR
> >> No change in bordercolor
> >>
> >> Switch that buttons STYLE to "rectangle"
> >> Et voila, now we can see the bordercolor!
> >>
> >> Switch STYLE back to "roundrect" and if we now change the
> FOREGROUNDCOLOR
> >> that will also affect the BORDER.
> >>
> >> I do not need a workaround, I just want to know if this is a bug or
> >> feature!
> >>
> >>> ...
> >>> I totally agree that setting the "Border Color" Property would be much
> >> easier though.
> >>
> >> So you also think this is not working as exspected, right? 8-)
> >>
> >>> Paul
> >>
> >>>
>  On 7Jun, 2021, at 7:53 AM, ELS Prothero via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>  Folks,
>  This issue also confused me recently when I was making an app for my
> >> own use. It seems like an idiosyncrasy to me, even tho a pretty minor
> one
> >> that could be mentioned in the dictionary.
>  Best,
>  Bill
> 
>  William Prothero
>  https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
> > On Jun 7, 2021, at 7:30 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sean,
> >
> >> Am 06.06.2021 um 23:40 schrieb Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Klaus,
> >> Forecolor IS the border color. It always has been for shapes
> including
> >> circles, polygons and custom shapes.
> >
> > yes, but I was clearly referring to a button.
> >
> >> Buttons have a bordercolor property but only visible if 3d is off.
> >
> > AND if they are not "roundrect"!
> > Then the BORDERCOLOR does nto work!
> > It does if you switch to e.g. "rectangle".
> >
> > And that was puzzling me a bit. 8-)
> >
> >> Sean
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 at 14:20, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi friends,
> >>>
> >>> bug or feature?
> >>>
> >>> I have a "roundrect" button and cannot set its BORDERCOLOR!?
> >>> I have to set the FOREGROUNDCOLOR which also affects its
> BORDERCOLOR.
> >>>
> >>> This is not the case if I set the buttons type to e.g. "rectangle",
> >> then
> >>> the before set BORDERCOLOR will be displayed
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
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could not find a valid identity to use for the selected profile - again

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I am at a loss, this morning, to debug this, because it's not like i have
not dealt with this issue repeatedly in the last ten years
lc 9.6.0
xc 11.4
I removed my certs from the keychain and my profiles from the profiles
folder
i used xc to download the profiles
checked the standalone application settings to make sure the correct
profile is selected
i also checked push settings to make sure that the certificate is current
and that the settings are the same
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Re: could not find a valid identity to use for the selected profile - again

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing, because this is going
to come up, again, and someone is going to read this thread trying to
figure it out.
The provisioning profile for this app is platform ios, type development
In keychain access, I pulled up "iphone developer", a cert I created today
(and expires in a year) while trying to debug this issue. To create that, I
used the developer portal - so I just uploaded a CSR and downloaded the
cert.
In that cert, there is no "private key" section that I can see. There is a
"public key" section, and a variety of extensions, along
with "fingerprints" at the bottom

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 11:08 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello Mike,
>
> In the KeyChain Access app, if you click in your certificate and you expand
> it, do you see a private key? If a private key is missing, then this  is
> the culprit.
>
> Kind regards
> Panos
> --
>
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 17:29, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I am at a loss, this morning, to debug this, because it's not like i have
> > not dealt with this issue repeatedly in the last ten years
> > lc 9.6.0
> > xc 11.4
> > I removed my certs from the keychain and my profiles from the profiles
> > folder
> > i used xc to download the profiles
> > checked the standalone application settings to make sure the correct
> > profile is selected
> > i also checked push settings to make sure that the certificate is current
> > and that the settings are the same
> > ___
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Re: could not find a valid identity to use for the selected profile - again

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I missed the step for clicking on "My Certificates" in the bottom left
(Category) pane.
Yes, I see a private key, there.
Downloading the new AWDRIC fixed it - which is interesting, because
double-clicking on that cert did not prompt me to install it in keychain
access.

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 12:00 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello Mike,
>
> If you click on the certificate entry in the Keychain Access to expand it,
> you should see a private key entry, like in this screenshot (highlighted in
> green):
>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p71p5e5fbbnqu19/Screenshot%202021-07-19%20at%2018.48.31.png?dl=0
>
> Do you see a private key?
>
> If yes, it might be worth downloading the latest Apple Worldwide Developer
> Relations Intermediate Certificate from here:
> https://www.apple.com/certificateauthority/AppleWWDRCAG3.cer
>
> More details about this: https://developer.apple.com/support/expiration/
>
> Cheers,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 18:26, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing, because this is going
> > to come up, again, and someone is going to read this thread trying to
> > figure it out.
> > The provisioning profile for this app is platform ios, type development
> > In keychain access, I pulled up "iphone developer", a cert I created
> today
> > (and expires in a year) while trying to debug this issue. To create
> that, I
> > used the developer portal - so I just uploaded a CSR and downloaded the
> > cert.
> > In that cert, there is no "private key" section that I can see. There is
> a
> > "public key" section, and a variety of extensions, along
> > with "fingerprints" at the bottom
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 11:08 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Mike,
> > >
> > > In the KeyChain Access app, if you click in your certificate and you
> > expand
> > > it, do you see a private key? If a private key is missing, then this
> is
> > > the culprit.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > > Panos
> > > --
> > >
> > > On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 17:29, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am at a loss, this morning, to debug this, because it's not like i
> > have
> > > > not dealt with this issue repeatedly in the last ten years
> > > > lc 9.6.0
> > > > xc 11.4
> > > > I removed my certs from the keychain and my profiles from the
> profiles
> > > > folder
> > > > i used xc to download the profiles
> > > > checked the standalone application settings to make sure the correct
> > > > profile is selected
> > > > i also checked push settings to make sure that the certificate is
> > current
> > > > and that the settings are the same
> > > > ___
> > > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > > subscription preferences:
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> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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what is the point of aps.cer?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

in the new APNS regime, you have to create an aps.cer file, but it does not
seem like it is ever used in APNS. You use your .k8 file to do the work,
and i don't see the aps.cer file being bundled or otherwise accessed,
afterwards. you don't compile your app with it, either.

-- 
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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Licensing model change

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I just read and watched Kevin's announcement about LC licensing.
The value for us in the OSS license was simply a greater level of assurance
that there would be longevity in the event that LC the company failed, as
the source was still there for someone else to pick up. I think that's how
MC -> RR.
So I am disappointed that the code will not be out in the open in the event
of a business failure, however, I'm also respectful of the need for more
revenue.
I will leave it to others to discuss the failure of LC to deliver x,y,z and
how that plays into the situation.
I am also not privy to a recent P/L, so I am in a bad position to opine on
what they should do or prioritize.

-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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Re: Licensing model change

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I did not mean that we could get it to another firm for commercial use, I
meant that we could potentially limp through, ourselves, with the exception
of the pieces that were not OSS'd.
Most of the time when we ask for source escrow, the fees are insane, if the
developer will even discuss it.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 12:39 PM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> So I am disappointed that the code will not be out in the open in
> the event of a business failure
>
> The GPL open source license we used never provided this sort of protection
> due to the terms of the GPL. For that reason, we continued to sell source
> code escrow licenses to some commercial users, even as an open source
> company.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
>
>
>
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Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Don't forget the discount for however long that's good for

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 1:00 PM Kaveh via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Now I have to work out the new maze of pricing!
>
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 at 17:07, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > here is the announcement: https://livecode.org/
> >
> > ___
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>
>
> --
> Kaveh Bazargan PhD
> Director
> River Valley Technologies  ● Twitter
>  ● LinkedIn
>  ● ORCID
> 
> *Accelerating the Communication of Research*
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Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Extending on something Bernd said, I would hope the gang will consider is
keeping portions that are built upon the engine OSS, even with a
restrictive commercial license.
Something else for all of us to remember, when LC went OSS, there was a
reason, and at least part of that was financial.
As with every time LC makes a move and the hope comes out, here's hoping
that this move will be great.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 7:19 AM David V Glasgow via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:26 am, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > There you had a group of programmers who supposedly loved what
> > HyperCard could do, but they only loved that concept as a historical
> > artefact, not as a tool available to people now.
>
> Abso-frogging-lutely.
>
> The really interesting questions are “why?"  and “Is there anything we
> could do about it?”
>
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> David Glasgow
> Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist
> Carlton Glasgow Partnership
> Director, Child & Family Training, York
> Honorary Professor
> Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit
> Nottingham Trent University
>
>
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Re: LiveCode Community - anyone up for maintaining the community edition?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

You could always get at the IDE. You still can. Hopefully that won't
change, because there are plenty of times where something is broken and it
takes forever to get it fixed.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 9:37 AM Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I’m afraid I have to agree with Andre that if people didn’t contribute
> before, with Livecode Ltd. overseeing the process, they’re not going to
> now.  A large part of the problem is that there just aren’t very many of us
> with the time and skills to make contributions to the engine.
>
> Like Sean, I’m wondering about the status of LCB and widgets. This seemed
> like a considerable effort to facilitate community contributions and it
> would be unfortunate not to leverage this somehow going forward. If this
> architecture were to remain and be enhanced perhaps the company could offer
> discounts on subscriptions in exchange for contributions. Maybe a dedicated
> section of the forums listing and discussing features that might be added.
> Also, why not keep the IDE “open” in some sense?  If a little more guidance
> were provided on the design of the IDE I think there are a lot of us that
> have the scripting skills to improve it.
>
> Some ideas along these lines might have more chance of success than a “go
> it alone” community open source effort.
>
> Tim Bleiler, Ph.D.
> Instructional Designer, HSIT
> University at Buffalo
>
> > On Sep 1, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > The main reasons I stopped contributing were:
> > No easy support for LiveCode script as it was all in binary so versioning
> > was non-existent.
> > Life cycle between a pull request, merge and deployment
> >
> > The dictionary was the only place I was able to properly contribute. But
> it
> > still sucked a lot. And was inconsistent between the Doc Viewer and the
> Doc
> > panel in the script editor. I kind-of got fed up with all of it. The new
> AI
> > thing is cool. But it would be good to have a good portal for submitting
> > updates and improving the quality of the Guide/Dictionary.
> >
> > Liking where LC10 is heading. I was an outspoken naysayer of Open
> Sourcing.
> > TBH, I didn't understand the need. I liked it a bit more when it
> happened.
> > I definitely liked peeking into the core and getting a better
> understanding
> > of how stuff like the datagrid worked and other bits and bobs.
> >
> > But I am happier now it's gone back into the hands of LCLtd. It makes
> much
> > more sense.
> >
> > I'd be interested to know if a new SDK is being implemented if it's now
> no
> > longer open source. Or if Widgets and LCB will remain the main way in
> > (which is probably fine).
> >
> > Sean
> > *Pi *
> >
> > On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 13:26, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> People had eight years to contribute to the community edition, and they
> >> didn't. I don't think people would now start caring for and devoting the
> >> necessary energy to maintain the community edition. It is because people
> >> didn't organise and contribute that this recent change happened.
> >>
> >> On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 12:56, David Bovill via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Here are my thoughts on this - and a request.
> >>>
> >>> Yes - it’s not a surprising move by Livecode Ltd - they were clearly
> >>> struggling supporting the community aspect and taking the language to
> the
> >>> next level and they need more revenue to do that.
> >>>
> >>> The question is (for my part at least) - what to do about this.
> >> Personally
> >>> I have never seen a future for a closed source language, and the
> >> projects I
> >>> work on will not fund. Projects developed in closed source - especially
> >> by
> >>> a small company. So I have a choice, switch language, or look to
> continue
> >>> with developing with the community edition and help build an open
> source
> >>> community around that. The former (switching languages) is relatively
> >> easy,
> >>> the latter a lot of work.
> >>>
> >>> I’m happy to have a company like Livecode Ltd create closed source
> >>> products  that I can use, so how to have both an open source language,
> >> and
> >>> the ability to work with closed source products developed by Livecode
> >> Ltd?
> >>> As I see it the only option is for those interested in the community to
> >>> take control and responsibility for the core language.
> >>>
> >>> There are a number of options with regard to future language
> development,
> >>> that would put the language on an even par with other open source
> >>> languages, and there are also new ways to finance such initiatives. It
> >>> would be valuable to get together as a community and discuss those.
> >>>
> >>> How about having a community conference to look at what is possible? We
> >>> can do this online and showcase new and existing open source projects
> and
> >>> dis

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

@keith ok, so run the numbers

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 7:56 AM Keith Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Unless someone’s hoarding gold that’s an interesting but not all that
> useful pricing comparison. I prefer the Big Mac Index (
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/
> <
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/>)
> and regular historical inflation/value charts. ;)
>
> However, yes, we do get a lot from LC.
>
> k
>
>
> > On 2 Sep 2021, at 09:38, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Over on the forum Kevin has been encouraging people to contact support
> with
> > any issues. Some are refusing to do so, making ridiculous demands in
> > response.
> >
> > Yesterday I had a look at the historical prices to see if LC was
> > significantly more expensive than Metacard:
> > 2001 - Metacard ($995)  [$288]
> > 2005 - Revolution Enterprise (£899) [£243]
> > 2021 - Livecode (3x distro platforms £720) [£1316]
> >
> > In square brackets behind each is [the price of an ounce of gold] (if
> > someone's got a better comparator, they can post it e.g. crude oil, pork
> > bellies, cost of an entry level Mac, etc).
> >
> > So Metacard cost 3 ounces of gold, Rev Enterprise cost 3.7 oz of gold,
> > today's Livecode equivalent costs 0.54 oz of gold.  Even if one adds all
> 7
> > of the distro platforms (3 of which certainly didn't exist in 2005), a
> full
> > Livecode license costs just over 1oz of gold, so between 1/3rd of the
> price
> > of 15 years ago (or as little as 1/6th the price of Metacard).
> Objectively
> > speaking, the customer today gets so much more for so much less.  Apart
> > from those who have been used to getting something for free.
> >
> > It was only this time last year I stated how amazing it was that Livecode
> > manages all the complexity of producing software that runs on so many
> > divergent platforms (I was navigating the version compatibilities of
> Xcode,
> > Android Studio, MacOS, iOS, AndroidOS, Windows OS, and Livecode), not to
> > mention producing two different versions of Livecode (free and
> > commercial).  Something had to give.
> >
> > Regards, Bernard
> > ___
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I don't know how much of a difference the compiling/building makes. While
it is true that anyone who wants to "run an app" (even that's obviously
incorrect, since stacks <> apps) can just download the free version, there
is no way for that author to protect the source. Is that enough of an
incentive for someone to pay up - so they can build an app instead of
distributing an unlocked stack? I don't know. Will cutting them off from
tsNet, or building/distributing mobile/server/web matter? Again, dunno.
I am curious to know how much business any firm generates from either a
trial or from a free version - like how many people take a flier and then
decide to pay up as a result. My hunch is that more people grow from a free
version to a paid version than grow from a free trial to a paid version. I
think free trials are more like test drives.
At any rate, I'm hoping that LC can make money.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:52 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> True, true.
>
> There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around but
> you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a programming
> IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other supporting files,
> SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would not dismiss this
> out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app
> building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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Re: Licensing model change

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I was not paying that close attention to all the details. Did LC take the
current community installer down? If they did not, then this act seems odd.
If they did, then I am not surprised.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:07 PM Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I see that some of "the community" have now uploaded dozens of the
> installers from the old Livecode page to archive.org.
>
> https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22LiveCode%2C+Inc.%22
>
> I don't know what LC Ltd's thinking was in deleting the old pages, but
> clearly some of "the community" are doing all they can to thwart LC Ltd.
> The tragedy of the commons.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:49 PM doc hawk via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Kevin kayaked,
> > >Look what happened to Open Office. It died because no one wanted to work
> > on it.
> >
> > ???
> >
> > The bulk of the developers bolted and formed LibreOffice from the OO
> > codebase.  It’s alive and well--I just downloaded a new version this
> > morning.
> >
> > It isn’t that OO faded or died, but that no-one liked the new overlords
> > when Oracle acquired Sun.  The project itself is thriving under the new
> > name.
> > ___
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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Re: Licensing model change

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'd also be curious how the new model compares to xojo

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:17 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> I was not paying that close attention to all the details. Did LC take the
> current community installer down? If they did not, then this act seems odd.
> If they did, then I am not surprised.
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:07 PM Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I see that some of "the community" have now uploaded dozens of the
>> installers from the old Livecode page to archive.org.
>>
>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22LiveCode%2C+Inc.%22
>>
>> I don't know what LC Ltd's thinking was in deleting the old pages, but
>> clearly some of "the community" are doing all they can to thwart LC Ltd.
>> The tragedy of the commons.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:49 PM doc hawk via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Kevin kayaked,
>> > >Look what happened to Open Office. It died because no one wanted to
>> work
>> > on it.
>> >
>> > ???
>> >
>> > The bulk of the developers bolted and formed LibreOffice from the OO
>> > codebase.  It’s alive and well--I just downloaded a new version this
>> > morning.
>> >
>> > It isn’t that OO faded or died, but that no-one liked the new overlords
>> > when Oracle acquired Sun.  The project itself is thriving under the new
>> > name.
>> > ___
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>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> > subscription preferences:
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>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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"Unknown error." in LC when trying to test to connected ios device

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Mac OS 11.5.2
LC 9.6.2
XCode 12.1
I choose a device from the Development->Test Target menu, then select
Development->Test
We get as far as the app getting signed, and then the error is thrown.
I'm pretty sure the certs and profiles are current, since I manually
removed them and then used XC to reinstall them.
Suggestions?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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Re: "Unknown error." in LC when trying to test to connected ios device

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

that ain't it. but i looked, just in case.

On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 9:58 PM scott--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> As  J. Landman Gay once pointed out, sometimes it comes down to figuring
> out what color chicken to sacrifice. The other day I encountered something
> similar to what you are describing that was a new one for me. (I don’t
> recall the exact issue because I encountered several and they are mixed up
> in my mind now.) But one error was actually the result of checking the
> "build for iOS” button but forgetting to uncheck the “build for Android”
> button. I was surprised that LC couldn’t figure that out based on the
> target device but, unchecking “build for Android” solved it. Hoping you
> find that it is something simple and not the chicken thing.
>
> --
> Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
> booth1-360-734-4701
> --------------
>
> > On Sep 15, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Mac OS 11.5.2
> > LC 9.6.2
> > XCode 12.1
> > I choose a device from the Development->Test Target menu, then select
> > Development->Test
> > We get as far as the app getting signed, and then the error is thrown.
> > I'm pretty sure the certs and profiles are current, since I manually
> > removed them and then used XC to reinstall them.
> > Suggestions?
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: New MacBook Pro Display Notch

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm not sure this will be a problem, unless you are trying to display
something in the menubar, since that's where the notch is going to be.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 5:14 AM Richmond via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I should have thought the simplest way round this problem was to work on
> the assumption that from now on
> ALL Apple displays will have a notch and "cut one's stack" to
> accommodate that.
>
> Of course this is only relevant to people who want to annoy end-users by
> providing full-screen window apps.
>
> On 19.10.21 11:55, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode wrote:
> > The new 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pro models announced by Apple yesterday
> include a display notch to house the 1080P front facing camera. Clearly
> this may cause problems for apps that display content in the screen area
> occupied by the new notch.
> >
> > In response Apple has created a new “compatibility mode” for apps
> running on Macs with a notch. When this mode is active, the system changes
> the active area of the display to avoid the camera housing. This mode can
> be turned on/off by the user via a checkbox in the app’s get info panel or
> it can be activated or deactivated by the developer via a new ‘info.plist’
> key.
> >
> > Link to Apple developer documentation on how to turn on / off this mode
> using the new ‘info.plist’ key is below:
> >
> >
> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/information_property_list/nsprefersdisplaysafeareacompatibilitymode
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Ascriva Health Informatics
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   and did a little diving.
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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm glad we have these sorts of discussions out in the open.
I hope there is not an appeal coming based on the lists that are submitted.
And even though this horse is dead, maybe some day we can have equal rights
for all items, especially the poor, empty ones. For those of you that don't
recall, the number of items in ",1" and the number of items in "1," are not
the same. Database records and CSV's continue to object.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 10:14 AM Pi Digital via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > On 25 Oct 2021, at 14:54, Richmond via use-livecode:
>
> > genuine criticisms
>
> Every word!
> ‘Extremely intemperate’, maybe, but not without cause. Or, indeed,
> unconsidered. I had held off from commenting at all (to a number of posts
> in fact) while I considered my take on it.
>
> Sometimes a bit of ‘genuine’ (justified) mud gets lobbed along with the
> critique. You don’t have to agree with it. If any of it was false there are
> plenty of others here that could ‘prove’ it. However, here we are.
>
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ios app: "Error opening database: cannot set file protection"

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Well, this is a new message that I can't seem to find a reference to: I
have an app that I've been working on for months. I did the first build of
it that I've done in a bit, and got that message:
Error opening database: cannot set file protection
After hitting "OK", the app quits.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

hey, bob, inflation isn't that bad, yet. the extra ellipses on the end...
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Re: LC Bug Survey Metasurvey - Ranking Criteria

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

As you probably recall, back in The Day, we could bug vote. Sometimes I
miss The Day.
I considered the immeasurable harm I have done to keyboards, especially
mechanical ones. I loved some of those keyboards. They gave their lives for
some of those bugs.
I also considered the number of bottles of scotch and sake that were gifted
to me from employees who thought that "just a taste" would help me calm the
hell down.
So if I murdered a keyboard, but was consoled with a smooth nigori, the net
was 0 and the bug demoted on my list.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:17 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I liked the Ranked-Top-Ten format of this latest LC Bug Survey.
>
> Now I'm curious: not about WHICH bugs people submitted,
> but your CRITERIA for ranking them.
>
> (I assume that's OK to discuss already at this point;
> not mentioning any specific bugs or areas/features of LC.)
>
> For me, first I had a prerequisite:
>
> 0. Still a reproducible bug in latest LC 965rc2.
>
> (Because I didn't want to waste any of the ten slots
> with an open bug that's actually fixed.
> Found a few to retest and report if resolved.)
>
> Then, I used three ranking criteria:
>
> 1. Is there a good workaround?
> 2. Severity.
> 3. How many projects it affects.
>
> (I weighted no-good-workaround highest,
> then eyeballed severity and scope equally.)
>
> Wondering whether most people had criteria like this,
> or just went from the feel of it.
>
> I would welcome encore future LC Top-Ten surveys!
> Maybe I'll make a Bug Ranker stack later to encourage it.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
>
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   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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widget store

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

since the lc extension store is essentially empty, does anyone have a
widget store, somewhere?
i want to leave tmc2 behind, but i keep finding out just how painful the
alternative is.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: widget store

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

It is really weird that we are in a widget desert, like LCB has been
ignored.
I looked at LCB a couple of times, like when I was trying to fix some of
the issues with the treeView widget before I just got tired of fighting
with it.


On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 6:22 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yes,
> that is also a great plugin from Scott. I used it also all the time. So
> much more options than the align menu of the ide.
>
> Matthias
>
>
> > Am 01.11.2021 um 22:08 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > tmAlign still works in LC 9.6.4 and Mac OS 12. I love it and use it all
> the time.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >> On Nov 1, 2021, at 1:57 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> TM Align is a really handy tool for aligning/spacing objects on your
> card. It has a few things the property inspector alignment tab does not do,
> and you don't have to keep re-selecting the alignment tab in the property
> editor every time you close and re-open it.
> >>
> >> Scott sent me the latest one he has (or told me where to get it) so
> mine so far as I know still works. I haven't done any design work in quite
> a while.
> >>
> >> Bob S
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 12:06 , Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I think thats it Mike.  I would be shocked to find out there is
> another one
> >>> widget store.
> >>> What does tmc2 do ?
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Bug survey

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

sounds like you should be filing a bug report.
that also sounds like strange behavior.

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 4:42 PM francois.chaplais via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I wanted to answer the LC bug survey.
>
> The problem is that there is probably no bug number for my problem.
>
> So here it what I wanted to answer to the first question in the survey:
>
> 
>
> I am on MacOS Big Sur, 11.6.1 (20G224). Latest 27''  iMac, Intel Chip, 8
> cores i7, 64 Gigs RAM, 4 TB SSD, etc..
>
> I have the latest stable build of Livecode (9.6.4 | Build 15551).
>
> When I want to activate a menu item in the Livecode menubar, it constantly
> takes more than one second to react. The Livecode menu. The File menu.
> Using the menu to quit Livecode is for the intrepid.
>
> This is the first impression that I have of the current Livecode app, and
> it discourages me to even try this version.
>
> This should be a no brainer for a 2021 app.
>
> 
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> François
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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mobile accelerometer

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

is anyone using the mobile accelerometer functionality?
i am thinking of adding it to our shop floor app to stop updates while
forklifts are moving.

-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
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Re: mobile accelerometer

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Right - it's the deceleration and delay that I'm hoping I can use to
determine that the forklift has stopped moving.
And yes, there are simpler ways to do everything - but if I was going for
simple, I would have stationary, wired workstations running our ERP
software, not a mobile app running on the truck.

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 7:09 PM doc hawk via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> mike mumbled,
> >
> > is anyone using the mobile accelerometer functionality?
> > i am thinking of adding it to our shop floor app to stop updates while
> > forklifts are moving.
>
> I used it a few years ago to move something around the screen by tilting.
> It was rather straightforward:  just read the things and use the related
> trigonometry (to figure out the angle it is held at in X & Y).
>
> However, the accelerometers will *not* tell you whether or not something
> is moving—once speed is reached, the acceleration drops to “zero” (gravity
> will still be detected).
>
> It could tell you that motion started, though, and you could lockout for
> however many minutes after any acceleration.
>
> Or, you could numerically integrate to get an estimate of speed, and later
> measure decelerations.
>
> But wouldn’t it be simpler to just let updates happen off-shift?
>
>
>
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win 11

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

anyone screwing with win 11 and lc?

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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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Re: Bug survey

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Does anyone remember the bug number for the mobile event ordering issue? I
can't find it in the bug db and it just bit me so I was going to email LC
to modify my list.
This is the bug where (on mobile) events don't necessarily thread, so if
you are in the middle of a handler and you try to jump out by branching to
another card (or handler) the current one will continue to execute. I think
it also included an issue with event timing being borked on mobile.

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 5:04 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> François,
>
> i noticed something similar and asked about here in September:
>
> >>
> i am currently noticing a massive slow down of the LC 9.6.4 IDE menu. Not
> right away after opening Livecode IDE, but after some time of usage.
> I never noticed that in 9.6.3. Clicking on an main menu entry takes then
> about 2 or 3 seconds until i can see the submenu
> But I am not sure if this is really only an LC problem or due to the fact
> that i upgraded to Big Sur around the same time as LC 9.6.4 was released.
> Currently i only notice this slow down of the menu in 9.6.4 and i am not
> able to see this in 9.6.3. But maybe i am a little bit to impatient and my
> testing is too short.
> In the activity monitor i cannot see anything unusual. Now large memory
> consumption of LC and no high CPU usage.
> After a restart of LC the IDE menu behaves normal, but some time later it
> slows down.
> Is anyone else experiencing the same or a similar behavior?"
> <<
>
> Until now i did not find any solution for this. I really do not know what
> is causing this and i have no recipe how to reproduce this bug. It just
> happens...
>
> But if you would file a bug, i would add a comment for this and we would
> be already 2 that have this problem. Maybe there are more people with this.
>
>
> Matthias
>
>
>
> > Am 02.11.2021 um 21:41 schrieb francois.chaplais via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > I wanted to answer the LC bug survey.
> >
> > The problem is that there is probably no bug number for my problem.
> >
> > So here it what I wanted to answer to the first question in the survey:
> >
> > 
> >
> > I am on MacOS Big Sur, 11.6.1 (20G224). Latest 27''  iMac, Intel Chip, 8
> cores i7, 64 Gigs RAM, 4 TB SSD, etc..
> >
> > I have the latest stable build of Livecode (9.6.4 | Build 15551).
> >
> > When I want to activate a menu item in the Livecode menubar, it
> constantly takes more than one second to react. The Livecode menu. The File
> menu. Using the menu to quit Livecode is for the intrepid.
> >
> > This is the first impression that I have of the current Livecode app,
> and it discourages me to even try this version.
> >
> > This should be a no brainer for a 2021 app.
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > François
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Bug survey

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

oh yeah, and another one I forgot about because I've just dealt with it for
so long:
silent error fails on mobile - again I don't see it in the bug db any more.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 5:03 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> Does anyone remember the bug number for the mobile event ordering issue? I
> can't find it in the bug db and it just bit me so I was going to email LC
> to modify my list.
> This is the bug where (on mobile) events don't necessarily thread, so if
> you are in the middle of a handler and you try to jump out by branching to
> another card (or handler) the current one will continue to execute. I think
> it also included an issue with event timing being borked on mobile.
>
> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 5:04 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> François,
>>
>> i noticed something similar and asked about here in September:
>>
>> >>
>> i am currently noticing a massive slow down of the LC 9.6.4 IDE menu. Not
>> right away after opening Livecode IDE, but after some time of usage.
>> I never noticed that in 9.6.3. Clicking on an main menu entry takes then
>> about 2 or 3 seconds until i can see the submenu
>> But I am not sure if this is really only an LC problem or due to the fact
>> that i upgraded to Big Sur around the same time as LC 9.6.4 was released.
>> Currently i only notice this slow down of the menu in 9.6.4 and i am not
>> able to see this in 9.6.3. But maybe i am a little bit to impatient and my
>> testing is too short.
>> In the activity monitor i cannot see anything unusual. Now large memory
>> consumption of LC and no high CPU usage.
>> After a restart of LC the IDE menu behaves normal, but some time later it
>> slows down.
>> Is anyone else experiencing the same or a similar behavior?"
>> <<
>>
>> Until now i did not find any solution for this. I really do not know what
>> is causing this and i have no recipe how to reproduce this bug. It just
>> happens...
>>
>> But if you would file a bug, i would add a comment for this and we would
>> be already 2 that have this problem. Maybe there are more people with this.
>>
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>
>>
>> > Am 02.11.2021 um 21:41 schrieb francois.chaplais via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>> >
>> > I wanted to answer the LC bug survey.
>> >
>> > The problem is that there is probably no bug number for my problem.
>> >
>> > So here it what I wanted to answer to the first question in the survey:
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > I am on MacOS Big Sur, 11.6.1 (20G224). Latest 27''  iMac, Intel Chip,
>> 8 cores i7, 64 Gigs RAM, 4 TB SSD, etc..
>> >
>> > I have the latest stable build of Livecode (9.6.4 | Build 15551).
>> >
>> > When I want to activate a menu item in the Livecode menubar, it
>> constantly takes more than one second to react. The Livecode menu. The File
>> menu. Using the menu to quit Livecode is for the intrepid.
>> >
>> > This is the first impression that I have of the current Livecode app,
>> and it discourages me to even try this version.
>> >
>> > This should be a no brainer for a 2021 app.
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > François
>> > ___
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Bug survey

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

No, this is something different. There was a bug report on mobile related
to event ordering, but I can't find it. I originally worked around it (like
the error causing silent aborts), but it just jumped back up at me, again,
and reminded me that I didn't put it on my list.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 5:48 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 11/3/21 4:03 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > This is the bug where (on mobile) events don't necessarily thread, so if
> > you are in the middle of a handler and you try to jump out by branching
> to
> > another card (or handler) the current one will continue to execute. I
> think
> > it also included an issue with event timing being borked on mobile.
>
> I may not understand correctly, but in general this is normal behavior.
> When you go to another
> card or handler, those messages are sent and then the original handler
> continues. If you don't
> want a continuation, add an "exit" command after the "go".
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: M1 Mac Windows 10 ARM in Parallels and LC

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

remind me next week. my MBP just arrived, yesterday, and after 20 hours in
migration assistant, is finally in use.
I got a dev edition of win 11 installed in parallels, but i have not tried
anything else with it, yet.
i also have not figured out how to get the apps to transfer because you
can't just open your intel vm in the arm vm, which means getting programs
to move won't be trivial.

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 12:41 PM Sean Cole via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Has anyone yet had experience running LC in a Windows 10 ARM edition within
> Parallels Desktop?
>
> This, I feel, would be good knowledge for us all to be aware of.
>
> I'm going through the process of working out my next upgrade to the MacBook
> Pro M1Max. But a contributing factor is: wether this would be able to swap
> out all of my other systems to just the one (which would be beneficial to
> my working environment). If not I would have to keep a separate windows
> system I can hook into via VNC (albeit without the useful direct bridging
> between the two) or an offsite Windows server (which will be slower but
> still usable).
>
> Technically, the Windows ARM is only beta and may even get dropped
> potentially. It can run x86 apps (virtualised, I think) but not x64. LC is
> still x86 as far as I am aware. But I don't know what other caveats may
> become evident once it is up and running. Hence the question.
>
> If no one else has tried this out I may well end up just biting the bullet
> and take one for the team to find out. But it would be great to know before
> hand what to expect.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Sean
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: M1 Mac Windows 10 ARM in Parallels and LC

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

and i don't think you can get the win 10 installer for arm any longer. i
think it's been discontinued and you can only get 11, now.

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 2:45 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> remind me next week. my MBP just arrived, yesterday, and after 20 hours in
> migration assistant, is finally in use.
> I got a dev edition of win 11 installed in parallels, but i have not tried
> anything else with it, yet.
> i also have not figured out how to get the apps to transfer because you
> can't just open your intel vm in the arm vm, which means getting programs
> to move won't be trivial.
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 12:41 PM Sean Cole via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Has anyone yet had experience running LC in a Windows 10 ARM edition
>> within
>> Parallels Desktop?
>>
>> This, I feel, would be good knowledge for us all to be aware of.
>>
>> I'm going through the process of working out my next upgrade to the
>> MacBook
>> Pro M1Max. But a contributing factor is: wether this would be able to swap
>> out all of my other systems to just the one (which would be beneficial to
>> my working environment). If not I would have to keep a separate windows
>> system I can hook into via VNC (albeit without the useful direct bridging
>> between the two) or an offsite Windows server (which will be slower but
>> still usable).
>>
>> Technically, the Windows ARM is only beta and may even get dropped
>> potentially. It can run x86 apps (virtualised, I think) but not x64. LC is
>> still x86 as far as I am aware. But I don't know what other caveats may
>> become evident once it is up and running. Hence the question.
>>
>> If no one else has tried this out I may well end up just biting the bullet
>> and take one for the team to find out. But it would be great to know
>> before
>> hand what to expect.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Sean
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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xcode and catalina **NEW MBP**

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Has anyone gotten LC/XC to work on a new mac that came with catalina
pre-installed?
I'm kind-of in a catch-22 with LC not working with XC 13.1 and XC 12.5.1
and below not even running in Catalina, so I can't complete the installs.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: xcode and catalina **NEW MBP**

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

sigh. yes, monterey. 12.0.1

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 1:25 PM Jim At Consensus via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Do you mean “Monterey”. I’m in Bog Sur and Vataliba was a version Orr more
> ago.
>
> Doesn’t really matter. I’m holding off on upgrade to Monterey until LC can
> deal with xCode 13.
>
> ~j
>
> Sent from Jim's iPhone XR
> Please excuse brevity, typos and errors
>
> > On Nov 16, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone gotten LC/XC to work on a new mac that came with catalina
> > pre-installed?
> > I'm kind-of in a catch-22 with LC not working with XC 13.1 and XC 12.5.1
> > and below not even running in Catalina, so I can't complete the installs.
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
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Re: Xcode and Catalina **NEW MBP**

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Ralph,
I said "Catalina" when I meant "Monterey".
It's a new MBP, and no versions of XC before 13.1 will run on it.
I used a restore from Time Machine to get the machine set up, so all of the
old XCodes that I had moved over, but none of the command-line tools seem
to work.
#firstWorldProblems

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 1:22 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> From 9.6.5 Release notes.
>
>   - macOS 10.15.4: Xcode 12.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 14.4 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Important: From the start of April 2021, Apple is only accepting apps built
> using iOS14.x SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the
> AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.15 in order to be
> able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 12:21 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Mike Kerner
> Subject: xcode and catalina **NEW MBP**
>
> Has anyone gotten LC/XC to work on a new mac that came with catalina
> pre-installed?
> I'm kind-of in a catch-22 with LC not working with XC 13.1 and XC 12.5.1
> and
> below not even running in Catalina, so I can't complete the installs.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day,
> God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
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Re: Xcode and Catalina **NEW MBP**

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

link, please. It isn't working for me.
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Re: Xcode and Catalina **NEW MBP**

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

just to follow up on this some more, I have tried launching XC 12.5.1
manually. You can do it, but something happened with the command-line
tools, which causes builds from within LC to bork with an error.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 9:51 PM Jim MacConnell via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Am I understanding correctly?
> There is a way to get Xcode 12.5 running on Monterey?
> Will this satisfy the LC requirements?
> Jim
>
> > On Nov 16, 2021, at 4:40 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Apple did it again. It looks like only Xcode 13 will run on Monterey.
> Looks
> > can be deceiving. If you activate Xcode 12.5.x from the command line it
> will
> > start.
> >
> >
> > Ralph DiMola
> > IT Director
> > Evergreen Information Services
> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 7:01 PM
> > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Cc: Mike Kerner
> > Subject: Re: Xcode and Catalina **NEW MBP**
> >
> > Ralph,
> > I said "Catalina" when I meant "Monterey".
> > It's a new MBP, and no versions of XC before 13.1 will run on it.
> > I used a restore from Time Machine to get the machine set up, so all of
> the
> > old XCodes that I had moved over, but none of the command-line tools
> seem to
> > work.
> > #firstWorldProblems
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 1:22 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> From 9.6.5 Release notes.
> >>
> >>  - macOS 10.15.4: Xcode 12.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the
> >> iOS
> >> 14.4 SDK
> >>
> >> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> >> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
> >>
> >> Important: From the start of April 2021, Apple is only accepting apps
> >> built using iOS14.x SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps
> >> to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.15 in
> >> order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
> >>
> >> Ralph DiMola
> >> IT Director
> >> Evergreen Information Services
> >> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> >> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 12:21 PM
> >> To: How to use LiveCode
> >> Cc: Mike Kerner
> >> Subject: xcode and catalina **NEW MBP**
> >>
> >> Has anyone gotten LC/XC to work on a new mac that came with catalina
> >> pre-installed?
> >> I'm kind-of in a catch-22 with LC not working with XC 13.1 and XC
> >> 12.5.1 and below not even running in Catalina, so I can't complete the
> >> installs.
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second
> >> day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>   and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription
> >> preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second
> day,
> > God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe,

Re: Xcode and Catalina **NEW MBP**

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

For anyone else who gets to fight through this before a new LC comes out:
This is not an OS upgrade, this is a new box, with monterey preinstalled.
I used the Time Machine method for setting up this box
That brought over multiple copies of XCode, including 12.5 and 12.5.1
Building with LC throws an error using 12.5.1, regarding the command-line
tools, which implies that they are not installed - which is weird, since
they are installed on the other box for each of the versions of XCode, and
I can build, over there.
Trying to launch XC 12.5.1 throws an error about versioning.
Trying to launch XC 12.5.1 from the terminal seems to work (ignoring all
the warnings, etc.), but it does not trigger XCode to reinstall the
command-line tools.
Trying to use sudo xcode-select --switch  throws an error that the
version is invalid. If you are trying to play along at home, the path will
be something like /Applications/XCode-12.5.1/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer
I guess the next thing to do is to try to download and reinstall 12.5.1
from the Apple Developer site.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 9:51 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Did you point the build tools to 12.5.1?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:36 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Mike Kerner
> Subject: Re: Xcode and Catalina **NEW MBP**
>
> just to follow up on this some more, I have tried launching XC 12.5.1
> manually. You can do it, but something happened with the command-line
> tools,
> which causes builds from within LC to bork with an error.
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 9:51 PM Jim MacConnell via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Am I understanding correctly?
> > There is a way to get Xcode 12.5 running on Monterey?
> > Will this satisfy the LC requirements?
> > Jim
> >
> > > On Nov 16, 2021, at 4:40 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Apple did it again. It looks like only Xcode 13 will run on Monterey.
> > Looks
> > > can be deceiving. If you activate Xcode 12.5.x from the command line
> > > it
> > will
> > > start.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ralph DiMola
> > > IT Director
> > > Evergreen Information Services
> > > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 7:01 PM
> > > To: How to use LiveCode
> > > Cc: Mike Kerner
> > > Subject: Re: Xcode and Catalina **NEW MBP**
> > >
> > > Ralph,
> > > I said "Catalina" when I meant "Monterey".
> > > It's a new MBP, and no versions of XC before 13.1 will run on it.
> > > I used a restore from Time Machine to get the machine set up, so all
> > > of
> > the
> > > old XCodes that I had moved over, but none of the command-line tools
> > seem to
> > > work.
> > > #firstWorldProblems
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 1:22 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Mike,
> > >>
> > >> From 9.6.5 Release notes.
> > >>
> > >>  - macOS 10.15.4: Xcode 12.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the
> > >> iOS
> > >> 14.4 SDK
> > >>
> > >> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations
> here:
> > >> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
> > >>
> > >> Important: From the start of April 2021, Apple is only accepting
> > >> apps built using iOS14.x SDKs. This means that, if you wish to
> > >> submit apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least
> > >> macOS 10.15 in order to be able to install the necessary version of
> Xcode.
> > >>
> > >> Ralph DiMola
> > >> IT Director
> > >> Evergreen Information Services
> > >> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
> > >> On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, November

Re: [ANN] Release 10.0.0 DP-1

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

FYI, XC 12.5.x is being a bugger with MacOS 12.x for new hardware. Any
chance we'll get XCode 13.1 in DP2?
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mobile debugger: unknown color?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm getting an execution error at line n/a (Object: unknown color)
the debugger then throws up the card script, but the pointer is not
pointing at anything.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: mobile debugger: unknown color?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Wow. This is even weirder.
There was an error in the card script, but the debugger did not pop up for
that, unless I put in a breakpoint statement, first. Once the breakpoint
statement triggers, even if you just continue execution after, when the
error occurs, the debugger will pop up.

On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 11:15 AM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> I'm getting an execution error at line n/a (Object: unknown color)
> the debugger then throws up the card script, but the pointer is not
> pointing at anything.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
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