Re: Feature Exchange any one?

[Ali Lloyd]

Paul, since I have committed the datagrid docs on your behalf, qould you
mind signing the contributor licence agreement please?

http://livecode.com/store/account/contributor-agreement-signup

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 4:40 AM Paul Dupuis  wrote:

> On 6/5/2016 7:17 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> >> On 6 Jun 2016, at 8:29 AM, Ali Lloyd  wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for this Paul, I have taken the liberty of tweaking it slightly
> more
> >> and submitted a pull request:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1218/files
> >>
> >> Now all we need to do is convert the guide to markdown ;-)
> > I’ve got to admit I’ve had some projects in the past that were heavy DG
> users and this was a major annoyance so thank you Paul! It just goes to
> show that if you are frustrated by something in LiveCode it is no longer a
> black box where you need to just post a bug report and wait for the team to
> find time to fix it and the team has your back (it’s very late on a Sunday
> night for Ali!).
> >
>
> Thank you Monte and Ali.
>
> Perhaps if I find some time later this summer, I'll take a stab at the
> Guide itself.
>
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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Monte,

I filed a bug report, but I could reproduce it only in my complex live stack 
and not in a test stack with a handy recipe.
It is LC 8.0 and yes it is QT. I know about all the QT hassles and have waited 
for years for a solution from Edinburgh.

My main product includes about 2 videos, which I have compressed 7 years 
ago with a Sorenson codec, which is not supported by AVFoundation and on 
Windows we don't have a LC productive release with the new player yet.

Even if LC 8.1 is released, I can't create just a program update for my 
customers, because of the non supported codec, I have to supply complete new 
videos (about 8GB), so I can't make a  only update for my product, actually It 
has to be a major version upgrade, shipping again on DVD. Even if I will have 
some day compressed all 2 videos with a new codec (yes I have batch 
compressor from Sorenson) I have to develop an upgrade strategy for all my 
customers. All in all it will probably take me a year from now on, until I got 
rid of QT.

It is especially annoying for me, that I have a new product, which is shortly 
before shipping, which I also only could develop depending on QT, because this 
product depends on the same 2 videos being installed on the users machines 
and there was no alternative.

">  - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit"
What does this mean exactly? I have an iMac with a Intel Core i5 processor and 
I thought up to now, it would run as 64 bit. I don't find any system 
information about 32/64 bit. But QT is running fine on this machine and I 
haven't had any complains about Mac users up to now. What does this mean? Where 
can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?

Thanks
Tiemo





-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von 
Monte Goulding
Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Juni 2016 02:37
An: How to use LiveCode 
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

If there’s a reliable crash please post a bug report with the crash log and we 
can symbolicate it and try and resolve it. It would also be interesting to know 
which version of LC you are using and whether the crash happens with an 
AVFoundation player (using a different movie of course). 

Having said that what worries me the most about this conversation is the use of 
QuickTime. One of my tasks this sprint is to document and clarify the use of 
dontUseQT and also remove the IDE preference to load QT automatically as it is 
too dangerous to leave that preference from old versions of LiveCode active.

Here’s the current status:

 - QT hasn’t been supported by Apple for years
 - QT has security warnings to uninstall from Windows
 - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit

It is basically a bomb in your app waiting to go off so we should be 
encouraging everyone mentioning the use of QuickTime to re-encode unsupported 
videos as a high priority.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

[Thierry Douez]

Hi Tiemo,


From Apple docs:

Intel Core Solo 32 bits
Intel Core Duo 32 bits
Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
Core i7 64 bits

  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)


">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?


​HTH,

Thierry​




Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Thierry,
yes, according to that table I have a 64 bit machine with an intel i5. But 
Monte pointed out that QT is not supported by 64 bit machines. But it runs on 
my machine? Why? And I have not had any customer, whre my program with QT would 
not have run?
Thanks
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von 
Thierry Douez
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:44
An: How to use LiveCode 
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Hi Tiemo,


From Apple docs:

Intel Core Solo 32 bits
Intel Core Duo 32 bits
Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
Core i7 64 bits

  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)


">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?


​HTH,

Thierry​




Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

[Phil Jimmieson]

Hi Tiemo,
if you start Apple's Activity Monitor application (it's in the utilities 
folder) and choose "all processes" , the information displayed includes whether 
or not the process is 64 bit or 32 bit (it's the column labelled "kind" - If 
your rows don't include that column, then right click a column heading or a 
blank column heading and choose "kind" from the list).


On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB  wrote:

> Hi Thierry,
> yes, according to that table I have a 64 bit machine with an intel i5. But 
> Monte pointed out that QT is not supported by 64 bit machines. But it runs on 
> my machine? Why? And I have not had any customer, whre my program with QT 
> would not have run?
> Thanks
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag 
> von Thierry Douez
> Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:44
> An: How to use LiveCode 
> Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> 
> From Apple docs:
> 
> Intel Core Solo 32 bits
> Intel Core Duo 32 bits
> Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
> Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
> Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
> Core i7 64 bits
> 
>  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)
> 
> 
> ">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?
> 
> 
> ​HTH,
> 
> Thierry​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
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--
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Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street
Liverpool L69 3BX  http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.





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LC 8 window resize not possible on W7

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hello,

I have a new LC 8 program, launched by a splash stack, hiding the splash
stack and going to the "main program". The mainstack of the "main program"
has set "resizable" to true (with a min width and min height). Resizing
works fine on my W10 and W8 and OS X machine.

Now I found a W7 Sony Vaio notebook, where I can't resize the window with
the mouse. The cursor even doesn't change to the "resize arrows", when
hovering the edge of the window. I only can "maximize" via the button in the
title bar. Other program windows on the same Sony machine are resizable as
normal.

 

Any idea what is happening on that machine? Is there any other setting,
which could have an influence on the resiability of a LC window? Could that
be an issue of the graphic adapter or a bug of LC?

Any ideas appreciated

Tiemo

 

 

 

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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Phil,
AHHH! I have a 64 bit machine with OS X 10.11, but my LC program runs under 32 
bit. Interesting to know.
What does that QT note not now means? Has the user a choice or option, how his 
programs will be executed? Are there already machines or systems which don't 
support the 32 bit mode anymore? Or will they be released soon?
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von 
Phil Jimmieson
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:58
An: How to use LiveCode 
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

Hi Tiemo,
if you start Apple's Activity Monitor application (it's in the utilities 
folder) and choose "all processes" , the information displayed includes whether 
or not the process is 64 bit or 32 bit (it's the column labelled "kind" - If 
your rows don't include that column, then right click a column heading or a 
blank column heading and choose "kind" from the list).


On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB  wrote:

> Hi Thierry,
> yes, according to that table I have a 64 bit machine with an intel i5. But 
> Monte pointed out that QT is not supported by 64 bit machines. But it runs on 
> my machine? Why? And I have not had any customer, whre my program with QT 
> would not have run?
> Thanks
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im 
> Auftrag von Thierry Douez
> Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 11:44
> An: How to use LiveCode 
> Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on 
> OS X
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> 
> From Apple docs:
> 
> Intel Core Solo 32 bits
> Intel Core Duo 32 bits
> Intel Core 2 Duo 64 bits
> Intel Quad-Core Xeon 64 bits
> Dual-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Quad-Core Intel Xeon 64 bits
> Core i3 64 bits Core i5 64 bits
> Core i7 64 bits
> 
>  ( Dernière modification: 18 mars 2015)
> 
> 
> ">  -Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?
> 
> 
> ​HTH,
> 
> Thierry​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
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Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street
Liverpool L69 3BX  http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.





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Re: Fun (was Re: Cubist's first bug report)

[Terence Heaford]

> On 6 Jun 2016, at 06:33, Monte Goulding  wrote:
> 
> Hmm… certainly an interesting idea:
> 
> put 1,2,3 into tVar
> myAdd 5, item 3 of tVar
> 
> command myAdd pToAdd, @xAddTo
>   put pToAdd+xAddTo into xAddTo
> end myAdd
> 
> tVar = 1,2,8
> 
> I doubt we should get our hopes up Dar ;-)
> 
> Of course if we can do that it means ruling out what I was suggesting as the 
> chunk could mutate from one reference to the next. The case of a command 
> mutating a single chunk is much simpler as it’s just a case of retaining the 
> evaluation.



Not read the context of this thread but…….

on mouseUp

put 1,2,3 into tVar

myAdd 5, 3, tVar

put tVar

end mouseUp


command myAdd pToAdd, chunkNum,@xAddTo

put pToAdd + item chunkNum of xAddTo into item chunkNum of xAddTo

end myAdd



Terry
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

[Paul Dupuis]

On 6/6/2016 3:37 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:
> Paul, since I have committed the datagrid docs on your behalf, qould you
> mind signing the contributor licence agreement please?
>
> http://livecode.com/store/account/contributor-agreement-signup

Done.


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Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Lagi Pittas]

HI It looks to me that the ANY command/function is reusing a global
variable of some type
or if there is an optimizing stage it is reusing the "register" whether in
the bytecode interpreter instructions
or the bytecode interpreter per se.

The larger the number the items reach a limit which I would suggest is a
register overflowing. It's a best guess as  this happened to me many moons
ago where  I found a bug in the  Pcode  interpreter of Apple ][ UCSD Pascal
by disassembling the 6502 code.(when I had the time and inclination and
wanted to know why my quicksort routine wasn't working)

Wouldn't know where to start with livecode

Then again I could be totally wrong , I cant see how a chunk expression can
have a double evaluation effect - and if it was adding 0 to anything would
still be zero, so that's why I suggest
a register is being overwritten somehow,

Lagi

On 6 June 2016 at 05:34, FlexibleLearning.com 
wrote:

> This double-evaluation bug has existed since MC v4.2 (the earliest engine I
> have immediately to hand).
>
> [snip]
> on mouseUp
>put "1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16" into myVar
>repeat 1000
>   add zero to any item of myVar
>end repeat
>put  myVar
> end mouseUp
> [/snip]
>
> Hugh Senior
> FLCo
>
>
>
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Re: Feature Exchange any one?

[Ali Lloyd]

Thanks very much!

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:18 PM Paul Dupuis  wrote:

> On 6/6/2016 3:37 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote:
> > Paul, since I have committed the datagrid docs on your behalf, qould you
> > mind signing the contributor licence agreement please?
> >
> > http://livecode.com/store/account/contributor-agreement-signup
>
> Done.
>
>
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[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 36

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source 
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!


   Read issue #36 here: https://goo.gl/q3p18P


This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been 
going on in and around the open source project.  New issues will be 
released weekly on Mondays.  We have a dedicated mailing list that will 
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!


Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? 
Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode"!


Peter

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LiveCode Technical Project Manager

LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode

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Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

[Fraser Gordon]

On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:08, Tiemo Hollmann TB  wrote:

> I filed a bug report, but I could reproduce it only in my complex live stack 
> and not in a test stack with a handy recipe.
> It is LC 8.0 and yes it is QT. I know about all the QT hassles and have 
> waited for years for a solution from Edinburgh.
> 
> My main product includes about 2 videos, which I have compressed 7 years 
> ago with a Sorenson codec, which is not supported by AVFoundation and on 
> Windows we don't have a LC productive release with the new player yet.
> 
> Even if LC 8.1 is released, I can't create just a program update for my 
> customers, because of the non supported codec, I have to supply complete new 
> videos (about 8GB), so I can't make a  only update for my product, actually 
> It has to be a major version upgrade, shipping again on DVD. Even if I will 
> have some day compressed all 2 videos with a new codec (yes I have batch 
> compressor from Sorenson) I have to develop an upgrade strategy for all my 
> customers. All in all it will probably take me a year from now on, until I 
> got rid of QT.
> 
> It is especially annoying for me, that I have a new product, which is shortly 
> before shipping, which I also only could develop depending on QT, because 
> this product depends on the same 2 videos being installed on the users 
> machines and there was no alternative.
> 
> ">  - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit"
> What does this mean exactly? I have an iMac with a Intel Core i5 processor 
> and I thought up to now, it would run as 64 bit. I don't find any system 
> information about 32/64 bit. But QT is running fine on this machine and I 
> haven't had any complains about Mac users up to now. What does this mean? 
> Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?

Apple have no longer support QuickTime on Windows and it is deprecated on OSX; 
it has seen no substantial changes since the release of AVFoundation in OSX 
10.7. Additionally, it has never been available to 64-bit applications on any 
platform. Apple strongly encourage all apps on OSX to use AVFoundation instead 
of QuickTime.

LiveCode pre-8.0 was a 32-bit only app and wasn’t directly affected by the 
deprecation of QT. However, since 8.0, we have also offered a 64-bit version, 
which offers performance improvements and, in future, will allow increased 
functionality (many interesting frameworks on OSX, like MapKit, are 64-bit 
only). Basically, 64-bit is now the norm on OSX and 32-bit no longer sees any 
new features from Apple. By default, the IDE runs in 32-bit mode (it can be 
switched to 64-bit mode by changing the app’s properties in Finder). 
Standalones can be built to include 32-bit mode, 64-bit mode or both; if you 
select 64-bit mode, QuickTime will not be available.

The DirectShow framework that the new player on Windows uses supports 
user-installed codecs; if your users were to install a Sorenson decoder, they 
would retain the ability to play your videos without you having to re-encode. 
As far as I can tell, the decoder is proprietary to Sorenson and is not 
something LiveCode can supply; you may have access to it as part of your 
Sorenson compressor, however. 

Unfortunately, AVFoundation does not support installing additional codecs and 
does not support the Sorenson codec. For this reason, we maintain the ability 
to use QuickTime in 32-bit mode on OSX (even in 8.1) but there is nothing we 
can do to make it work using AVFoundation or in 64-bit mode. Apple could remove 
QuickTime entirely in some future OSX. If re-encoding your videos is a major 
undertaking, it might be better to start now in readiness for when QT is no 
longer available.

Fraser
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Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Lagi Pittas]

Hi

Just read further back through the thread and looks like Monte has a handle
on it

I’ve taken a little look into it and yes it does appear the chunk is being
> evaluated twice: Add left to right
> - get value to add by and evaluate chunk if any
> - get destination value and evaluate chunk if any
> - add
> - set destination value and evaluate chunk if any So I think we can both
> fix this quirk and optimise things that mutate rather than replace the
> destination chunk (add, subtract, multiply, divide commands… are there
> others?) by setting the previously marked chunk rather than re-evaluating.
> Please submit a bug report so we can look into it further and work out
> whether I’m right or I just don’t know my way around the engine well enough
> yet ;-) Cheers Monte


Lagi

On 6 June 2016 at 05:34, FlexibleLearning.com 
wrote:

> This double-evaluation bug has existed since MC v4.2 (the earliest engine I
> have immediately to hand).
>
> [snip]
> on mouseUp
>put "1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16" into myVar
>repeat 1000
>   add zero to any item of myVar
>end repeat
>put  myVar
> end mouseUp
> [/snip]
>
> Hugh Senior
> FLCo
>
>
>
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Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Mark Waddingham]

Hi Quentin,

I just thought I'd sum up the situation with this bug and provide a 
little more explanation.


On 2016-06-05 16:12, Quentin Long wrote:

...
This handler *should* end up generating a 16-item string of integers
which sum to exactly 100. What it *actually does* end up generating,
is a 16-item string of integers whose sum may or may not fall
somewhere within the range 80-120. Not sure what the hell is going on
here, but I am not at all happy about it. Perhaps other people might
like to try this code on their systems, and see if it works as
intended for them?

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17795


This bug has the same underlying cause as 
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7919 - although that bug was 
originally just reported against array subscript chunks, rather than 
chunks in general.


This particular issues has always been present and is a side-effect of 
how the engine currently handles chunk expressions.


If you have a command such as:

   add 1 to item random() of tVar

Then the engine will do the equivalent of the following:

   get item random() of tVar
   add 1 to it
   put it into item random() of tVar

This means that a chunk expression which contains expressions which 
cause side-effects (or use functions which do not return the same result 
for identical inputs - such as 'random()' / 'any') will not necessarily 
work how you expect. This is because those side-effect causing 
expressions will get evaluated twice.


From 7 onwards, the original bug report case was fixed. For commands 
such as:


   add 1 to tVar[random()]

The engine does something more like:

   put random() into tIndex1
   get tVar[tIndex1]
   add 1 to it
   put it into tVar[tIndex1]

This is because we changed the way that array subscripting operations 
work then they are used as a container (i.e. read/write) so that the 
'path' to the element is only evaluated once. A side-effect of this was 
that we were able to implement the ability for array elements to be able 
to passed by-ref (to @ parameters) which they previously could not.


We still need to change the way more general chunk expressions work to 
do a similar thing. However, as it is quite a large piece of work to do 
(and the behavior has always been the current way) it hasn't yet floated 
to the top of the list. Once it is done though (as a bonus) it should be 
possible to make arbitrary chunk expressions be passed by-ref like array 
elements can now.


Beyond using 'any' in a container chunk expression (which should work 
appropriately as it is part of the chunk expression itself), caution 
should always be taken when composing commands where the sub-expressions 
have overlapping side-effects:


  variable sIndex

  command whatShouldThisDo? sInput
add char sIndex of line addOneToIndex() of sInput to tSum
  end command

  function addOneToIndex
add 1 to sIndex
return sIndex
  end function

Here, what range is used to compute the substring depends *entirely* on 
order of evaluation which is not entirely obvious. One possible ordering 
is strict left to right:


   Eval(sIndex)
   Eval(addOneToIndex())
   Eval(sInput)
   Eval(tSum)

However, the more natural ordering from the point of view of the 
operations being performed is actually:


   Eval(sInput)
   Eval(addOneToIndex())
   Eval(sIndex)
   Eval(tSum)

This is because it follows the pattern of the underlying operations 
which are actually needed:


   1. Evaluate source container
   2. Evaluate line range
   3. Evaluate char of line
   4. Evaluate number to add to

This ordering will actually end up with more 'generally' efficient code 
also - predominantly because it ensures that the values which have been 
evaluated only need to live for the minimum amount of time.


(As a side note, the way to see why this is a more 'natural' ordering 
from the point of view of code execution is to rewrite the operation in 
question in procedural form:


add(sInput.LineOf(addOneToIndex()).CharOf(sIndex), tSum -> tSum)

Here you can see that the second ordering *is* left to right, but only 
after transforming from chunk syntax to function syntax.)


In an environment where side-effects could be completely known then 
there wouldn't really be a problem here - you could choose any 
well-defined ordering and the compiler could rearrange evaluations in 
cases where there are no side-effect problems to ensure efficiency. 
(Also, where side-effects do make things less efficient, the compiler 
could warn you about this).


Unfortunately for us though, the dynamicity of the message path means 
that it is impossible for the compiler to efficiently (thus making it 
worthwhile!) check side-effects for cases where you have any non-private 
handler call as a sub-expression - thus, the ordering of evaluation is 
probably best made the one which generally provides the best performance 
and to generally avoid sub-expressions with side-effects altogether 
(which you can always do by st

Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Dar Scott]

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:06 AM, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
> 
> This is because we changed the way that array subscripting operations work 
> then they are used as a container (i.e. read/write) so that the 'path' to the 
> element is only evaluated once. A side-effect of this was that we were able 
> to implement the ability for array elements to be able to passed by-ref (to @ 
> parameters) which they previously could not.

Yay!
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Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Dar Scott]

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:06 AM, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
> 
>  variable sIndex
> 
>  command whatShouldThisDo? sInput
>add char sIndex of line addOneToIndex() of sInput to tSum
>  end command
> 
>  function addOneToIndex
>add 1 to sIndex
>return sIndex
>  end function

My eyes see sIndex and addOneToIndex() as two different expressions and thus 
see the potential for an order-of-evaluation problem.  My eyes don't see that 
in using add on a chunk determined by a function.  So, the latter is much more 
of a concern for me.  


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Element as @ parameter (was Re: Cubist's first bug report)

[dsc]

I tried to make LiveCode crash fiddling with side-effects using this.  So far, 
I have not been able to.  As most of us have come to realize; there are some 
very smart people in Scotland.  

This is a very handy feature.  I usually use a functional style (using lots of 
simple, pure functions) but sometimes I want to maintain mutable data.  This is 
very handy.  I can have an array of queues!  

I am a little embarrassed that I didn't notice when this came out.  

Dar
darzLab

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:06 AM, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
>> 
>> This is because we changed the way that array subscripting operations work 
>> then they are used as a container (i.e. read/write) so that the 'path' to 
>> the element is only evaluated once. A side-effect of this was that we were 
>> able to implement the ability for array elements to be able to passed by-ref 
>> (to @ parameters) which they previously could not.
> 
> Yay!
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Old RR user becoming new LC user...

[j...@omnia.on-rev.com]

Using the community build 8.1.0.  Going through the initial video building a 
BMI calculator and the tutorial hung on "set the BG colour" of the round rect 
button and stopped...  Can't get it to restart...

All very interesting.  Like retaking my diver certification...

Think local.  Act local.  Honour water.  Recycle waste.




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Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[Scott Rossi]

Anyone know how to snapshot a rect location of a card that includes
negative values?

In LC 7.1.3, I have an object in a group that's scrolled out of view,
resulting in the object's rect having negative values.  I want to snapshot
the object, but I'm unable to snapshot any part of the card outside the
card's rect (where the rect contains values less than zero).  I know it's
possible to snapshot an offscreen stack, but can't seem to do this with an
offscreen object on a card.

Any option for this besides locking the screen and moving the object to a
visible location?

Thanks,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design



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Re: Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[BNig]

Hi Scott,

what happens if you reference the object directly:

on mouseUp
   export snapshot from field 1 of group 1 to tImg as png
   set the text of image 1 to tImg
   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
end mouseUp

or 

on mouseUp
   import snapshot from field 1 of group 1 
   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
end mouseUp

the rect of field 1 being 327,-125,577,-69

both work for me in LC 7.1.4. Both retain transparency.

Kind regards
Bernd


Scott Rossi wrote
> Anyone know how to snapshot a rect location of a card that includes
> negative values?
> 
> In LC 7.1.3, I have an object in a group that's scrolled out of view,
> resulting in the object's rect having negative values.  I want to snapshot
> the object, but I'm unable to snapshot any part of the card outside the
> card's rect (where the rect contains values less than zero).  I know it's
> possible to snapshot an offscreen stack, but can't seem to do this with an
> offscreen object on a card.
> 
> Any option for this besides locking the screen and moving the object to a
> visible location?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott Rossi





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Re: Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[Earthednet-wp]

Scott,
The important thing to recognize is that if you specify the rect in the 
snapshot command, you are essentially getting the data from the screenshot, but 
if you take a snapshot from a group, you get the data before it goes to the 
screen, where it exists in memory. 

I had a situation where a user was getting an extremely pixelated image from a 
screen snapshot. Putting the desired region on a group and using the syntax 
BNig suggests eliminates the possibility of this happening.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 12:42 PM, BNig  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> what happens if you reference the object directly:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   export snapshot from field 1 of group 1 to tImg as png
>   set the text of image 1 to tImg
>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
> end mouseUp
> 
> or 
> 
> on mouseUp
>   import snapshot from field 1 of group 1 
>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
> end mouseUp
> 
> the rect of field 1 being 327,-125,577,-69
> 
> both work for me in LC 7.1.4. Both retain transparency.
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> 
> 
> Scott Rossi wrote
>> Anyone know how to snapshot a rect location of a card that includes
>> negative values?
>> 
>> In LC 7.1.3, I have an object in a group that's scrolled out of view,
>> resulting in the object's rect having negative values.  I want to snapshot
>> the object, but I'm unable to snapshot any part of the card outside the
>> card's rect (where the rect contains values less than zero).  I know it's
>> possible to snapshot an offscreen stack, but can't seem to do this with an
>> offscreen object on a card.
>> 
>> Any option for this besides locking the screen and moving the object to a
>> visible location?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Scott Rossi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Card-SnapShot-from-Negative-Rect-tp4705458p4705459.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[Scott Rossi]

Thanks for the idea Bernd.  I'm trying to snapshot the card because I want
to capture multiple objects/groups that are present in a designated rect,
along with the card background pattern (where theRect includes negative
values).

export snapshot from rect theRect of this cd at size 120,120 to img "map"


I supposed I could ignore the card and temporarily group the controls to
be able to snapshot from a single object, but then I have to relayer
everything back to where it was originally.  This is not ideal, but
possible.

AFAIK, it's not possible to designate multiple objects for a snapshot, is
it?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 6/6/16, 12:42 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of BNig"
 wrote:

>Hi Scott,
>
>what happens if you reference the object directly:
>
>on mouseUp
>   export snapshot from field 1 of group 1 to tImg as png
>   set the text of image 1 to tImg
>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
>end mouseUp
>
>or 
>
>on mouseUp
>   import snapshot from field 1 of group 1
>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
>end mouseUp
>
>the rect of field 1 being 327,-125,577,-69
>
>both work for me in LC 7.1.4. Both retain transparency.
>
>Kind regards
>Bernd
>
>
>Scott Rossi wrote
>> Anyone know how to snapshot a rect location of a card that includes
>> negative values?
>> 
>> In LC 7.1.3, I have an object in a group that's scrolled out of view,
>> resulting in the object's rect having negative values.  I want to
>>snapshot
>> the object, but I'm unable to snapshot any part of the card outside the
>> card's rect (where the rect contains values less than zero).  I know
>>it's
>> possible to snapshot an offscreen stack, but can't seem to do this with
>>an
>> offscreen object on a card.
>> 
>> Any option for this besides locking the screen and moving the object to
>>a
>> visible location?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Scott Rossi
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Card-SnapShot-from-Negative
>-Rect-tp4705458p4705459.html
>Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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"Review: LiveCode 8 is freaking incredible"

[Richard Gaskin]

Bryan Lunduke is rather impressed with LiveCode 8.0:



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[BNig]

Scott,

I don't know of any way to designate multiple objects for one snapshot.

Maybe instead of rearranging the objects then relayer etc. you could make
multiple snapshots that you place relative to each other in a temporary
(invisible) group and then snapshot the group? You could probably even use
the rects of the objects for placing the images of the objects. Since for
your final snapshot negative rects would not matter.

Of course this is not as fast as one snapshot but saves you from
rearranging.

(not tested)

Kind regards
Bernd


Scott Rossi wrote
> I'm trying to snapshot the card because I want
> to capture multiple objects/groups that are present in a designated rect,
> along with the card background pattern (where theRect includes negative
> values).
> 
> export snapshot from rect theRect of this cd at size 120,120 to img "map"
> 
> 
> I supposed I could ignore the card and temporarily group the controls to
> be able to snapshot from a single object, but then I have to relayer
> everything back to where it was originally.  This is not ideal, but
> possible.
> 
> AFAIK, it's not possible to designate multiple objects for a snapshot, is
> it?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/6/16, 12:42 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of BNig"
> <

> use-livecode-bounces@.runrev

>  on behalf of

> bernd.niggemann@

> > wrote:
> 
>>Hi Scott,
>>
>>what happens if you reference the object directly:
>>
>>on mouseUp
>>   export snapshot from field 1 of group 1 to tImg as png
>>   set the text of image 1 to tImg
>>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
>>end mouseUp
>>
>>or 
>>
>>on mouseUp
>>   import snapshot from field 1 of group 1
>>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
>>end mouseUp
>>
>>the rect of field 1 being 327,-125,577,-69
>>
>>both work for me in LC 7.1.4. Both retain transparency.
>>
>>Kind regards
>>Bernd
>>
>>
>>Scott Rossi wrote
>>> Anyone know how to snapshot a rect location of a card that includes
>>> negative values?
>>> 
>>> In LC 7.1.3, I have an object in a group that's scrolled out of view,
>>> resulting in the object's rect having negative values.  I want to
>>>snapshot
>>> the object, but I'm unable to snapshot any part of the card outside the
>>> card's rect (where the rect contains values less than zero).  I know
>>>it's
>>> possible to snapshot an offscreen stack, but can't seem to do this with
>>>an
>>> offscreen object on a card.
>>> 
>>> Any option for this besides locking the screen and moving the object to
>>>a
>>> visible location?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Scott Rossi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>View this message in context:
>>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Card-SnapShot-from-Negative
>>-Rect-tp4705458p4705459.html
>>Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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Re: "Review: LiveCode 8 is freaking incredible"

[Mark Wieder]

Richard Gaskin  writes:

> 
> Bryan Lunduke is rather impressed with LiveCode 8.0:
> 
> 
> 

Uh-oh. Next we'll have a conference session titled "LC8 sucks"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WipM3SAYqK4

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com



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Re: Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[Scott Rossi]

Another possible option -- thanks Bernd :-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 6/6/16, 1:31 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of BNig"
 wrote:

>Scott,
>
>I don't know of any way to designate multiple objects for one snapshot.
>
>Maybe instead of rearranging the objects then relayer etc. you could make
>multiple snapshots that you place relative to each other in a temporary
>(invisible) group and then snapshot the group? You could probably even use
>the rects of the objects for placing the images of the objects. Since for
>your final snapshot negative rects would not matter.
>
>Of course this is not as fast as one snapshot but saves you from
>rearranging.
>
>(not tested)
>
>Kind regards
>Bernd
>
>
>Scott Rossi wrote
>> I'm trying to snapshot the card because I want
>> to capture multiple objects/groups that are present in a designated
>>rect,
>> along with the card background pattern (where theRect includes negative
>> values).
>> 
>> export snapshot from rect theRect of this cd at size 120,120 to img
>>"map"
>> 
>> 
>> I supposed I could ignore the card and temporarily group the controls to
>> be able to snapshot from a single object, but then I have to relayer
>> everything back to where it was originally.  This is not ideal, but
>> possible.
>> 
>> AFAIK, it's not possible to designate multiple objects for a snapshot,
>>is
>> it?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/6/16, 12:42 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of BNig"
>> <
>
>> use-livecode-bounces@.runrev
>
>>  on behalf of
>
>> bernd.niggemann@
>
>> > wrote:
>> 
>>>Hi Scott,
>>>
>>>what happens if you reference the object directly:
>>>
>>>on mouseUp
>>>   export snapshot from field 1 of group 1 to tImg as png
>>>   set the text of image 1 to tImg
>>>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
>>>end mouseUp
>>>
>>>or 
>>>
>>>on mouseUp
>>>   import snapshot from field 1 of group 1
>>>   put the rect of field 1 of group 1
>>>end mouseUp
>>>
>>>the rect of field 1 being 327,-125,577,-69
>>>
>>>both work for me in LC 7.1.4. Both retain transparency.
>>>
>>>Kind regards
>>>Bernd
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott Rossi wrote
 Anyone know how to snapshot a rect location of a card that includes
 negative values?
 
 In LC 7.1.3, I have an object in a group that's scrolled out of view,
 resulting in the object's rect having negative values.  I want to
snapshot
 the object, but I'm unable to snapshot any part of the card outside
the
 card's rect (where the rect contains values less than zero).  I know
it's
 possible to snapshot an offscreen stack, but can't seem to do this
with
an
 offscreen object on a card.
 
 Any option for this besides locking the screen and moving the object
to
a
 visible location?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Scott Rossi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>View this message in context:
>>>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Card-SnapShot-from-Negati
>>>ve
>>>-Rect-tp4705458p4705459.html
>>>Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>___
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>
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>>>subscription preferences:
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Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Mark Wieder]

Mark-

Thanks so much for adding insight to this discussion. You raise some
very interesting points here.

And I realize the parser is the problem here, so I'd only add that

function addOneToIndex
  add 1 to sIndex
  return sIndex
end function

would be an error in functional programming, since the whatShouldThisDo?
and addOneToIndex functions have an unfortunate and easily-fixed side effect.

variable sIndex
 
-- no side effects here any more
command setSIndexTo pNewIndex
put pNewIndex into sIndex
end setSIndexTo
 
-- this is now no longer ambiguous
command whatShouldThisDo? sInput
  -- this will work with line sIndex
  add char sIndex of line sIndex of sInput to tSum
  setSIndexTo sIndex+1

  -- this will work with line sIndex + 1
  setSIndexTo sIndex+1
  add char sIndex of line sIndex of sInput to tSum
end command



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Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Peter TB Brett]

On 06/06/2016 22:32, Mark Wieder wrote:

Mark-

Thanks so much for adding insight to this discussion. You raise some
very interesting points here.

And I realize the parser is the problem here, so I'd only add that


Just to be entirely clear -- this is not a problem with the LiveCode 
script parser.  It's working just fine.


The problem lies in the way that chunk expressions are handled when the 
script is _running_, i.e. during execution.


 Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

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Re: Cubist's first bug report

[Mark Wieder]

Peter TB Brett  writes:

> Just to be entirely clear -- this is not a problem with the LiveCode 
> script parser.  It's working just fine.
> 
> The problem lies in the way that chunk expressions are handled when the 
> script is _running_, i.e. during execution.

Er... yes... sorry, that's what I really meant to say.
Thanks for the correction.

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com



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Re: Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[[-hh]]

Yet another option could be:

[1] Shift each control down and right, so that the negative coords become
non-negative
and enlarge also the stack size so that the rectangle fits into the stack
window (and hide img X)
[2] Take your snapshot from the 'shifted' rect to img X.
I use 'export snapshot from rect  of window windowID here and resize
the image if necesary.
[3] Invert the action from step 1 (and show img X)

This works pretty fast.
Sadly we cannot lock screen for that, so there is some 'flickering' and it
is, contrary to export snapshot from a group, restricted to current
screensize.




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Forcing redraw of a LC window

[[-hh]]

I remember some discussions here about screen refresh and how
to force the redraw of a (possibly resized) LC window.

I recently found a method that works all the time for me, even
for cards that are 'overloaded' in some sense. I couldn't find
it mentioned until now, so I should share it.

I use it mostly just before an "unlock  screen":
** set backcolor of this card to the backcolor of this card **



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Re: Card SnapShot from Negative Rect?

[Jim Lambert]

>Scott Rossi wrote
>> I'm trying to snapshot the card because I want
>> to capture multiple objects/groups that are present in a designated
>>rect,

Import snapshot from this card
then
Crop the last image to somerect

where somerect is your “designated rect”

will that give you what you want without grouping and ungrouping a bunch of 
objects?

Jim Lambert
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AW: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Thank you Fraser for your explanations
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Fraser Gordon
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 17:45
An: How to use LiveCode 
Betreff: Re: LC 8 Random crash with QT set the filename of player on OS X


On 6 Jun 2016, at 10:08, Tiemo Hollmann TB  wrote:

> I filed a bug report, but I could reproduce it only in my complex live
stack and not in a test stack with a handy recipe.
> It is LC 8.0 and yes it is QT. I know about all the QT hassles and have
waited for years for a solution from Edinburgh.
> 
> My main product includes about 2 videos, which I have compressed 7
years ago with a Sorenson codec, which is not supported by AVFoundation and
on Windows we don't have a LC productive release with the new player yet.
> 
> Even if LC 8.1 is released, I can't create just a program update for my
customers, because of the non supported codec, I have to supply complete new
videos (about 8GB), so I can't make a  only update for my product, actually
It has to be a major version upgrade, shipping again on DVD. Even if I will
have some day compressed all 2 videos with a new codec (yes I have batch
compressor from Sorenson) I have to develop an upgrade strategy for all my
customers. All in all it will probably take me a year from now on, until I
got rid of QT.
> 
> It is especially annoying for me, that I have a new product, which is
shortly before shipping, which I also only could develop depending on QT,
because this product depends on the same 2 videos being installed on the
users machines and there was no alternative.
> 
> ">  - QT can not be supported on Mac 64 bit"
> What does this mean exactly? I have an iMac with a Intel Core i5 processor
and I thought up to now, it would run as 64 bit. I don't find any system
information about 32/64 bit. But QT is running fine on this machine and I
haven't had any complains about Mac users up to now. What does this mean?
Where can I check, if my system is running in 32 or 64 bit?

Apple have no longer support QuickTime on Windows and it is deprecated on
OSX; it has seen no substantial changes since the release of AVFoundation in
OSX 10.7. Additionally, it has never been available to 64-bit applications
on any platform. Apple strongly encourage all apps on OSX to use
AVFoundation instead of QuickTime.

LiveCode pre-8.0 was a 32-bit only app and wasn’t directly affected by the
deprecation of QT. However, since 8.0, we have also offered a 64-bit
version, which offers performance improvements and, in future, will allow
increased functionality (many interesting frameworks on OSX, like MapKit,
are 64-bit only). Basically, 64-bit is now the norm on OSX and 32-bit no
longer sees any new features from Apple. By default, the IDE runs in 32-bit
mode (it can be switched to 64-bit mode by changing the app’s properties in
Finder). Standalones can be built to include 32-bit mode, 64-bit mode or
both; if you select 64-bit mode, QuickTime will not be available.

The DirectShow framework that the new player on Windows uses supports
user-installed codecs; if your users were to install a Sorenson decoder,
they would retain the ability to play your videos without you having to
re-encode. As far as I can tell, the decoder is proprietary to Sorenson and
is not something LiveCode can supply; you may have access to it as part of
your Sorenson compressor, however. 

Unfortunately, AVFoundation does not support installing additional codecs
and does not support the Sorenson codec. For this reason, we maintain the
ability to use QuickTime in 32-bit mode on OSX (even in 8.1) but there is
nothing we can do to make it work using AVFoundation or in 64-bit mode.
Apple could remove QuickTime entirely in some future OSX. If re-encoding
your videos is a major undertaking, it might be better to start now in
readiness for when QT is no longer available.

Fraser
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