Re: Fun with nummberFormat

[Terry Judd]

On 16/02/2012, at 05:18 PM, Ken Ray wrote:


On Feb 14, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Terry Judd wrote:

On 15/02/2012, at 09:07 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Yes I know. I was remarking that you can put virtually anything in the 
numberFormat and it will pad with zero's.

And all that time I've been 'manually' padding my values. No more!

I've been using the "format" function instead:

 put format("%04d","13")
 -->  0013

 put format("%08d","121")
 --> 0121

More good stuff. Thanks Ken.

Terry...


That's what I love about LiveCode… you can do the same thing in multiple ways...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

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Dr Terry Judd
Senior Lecturer in Medical Education
Medical Eduction Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne



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Re: RevOnline upload (bis)

[René Micout]

Thank you Mark,
but the support is aware since 2011 december
René

Le 16 févr. 2012 à 06:11, Mark Smith a écrit :

> Did not work for me either earlier this week. Did not try today though. You
> might try sending a msg to support as they may not be aware of the problem.
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RevOnline-upload-bis-tp4387783p4393018.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: Lion

[Tim Jones]

Simply installed from the "Additional Packages" folder on the Snow Leopard DVD.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 15, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Marty Knapp  wrote:

> Hey Tim,
> So you've actually gotten Rosetta to function under Lion? I see lots of 
> chatter in various forums with some people saying that they got it to 
> install, but that PPC apps would not run. Did you just do the install off the 
> Snow Leopard disk, or did you have to do some tweaking to make it work?
> 
> Thanks,
> Marty K
>> On Feb 15, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Roger Eller wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks for the info. Interestingly enough my AppleWorks 6.2.9 runs fine
 under Snow Leopard on my Mac Pro, which is Intel. But I'll be careful based
 on your comment.
>>> Snow Leopard was the last version to include Rosetta for running those
>>> older applications.
>> But - if you have the Snow Leopard install DVD, the Rosetta package is 
>> included.  It installs fine on Lion and then all of the older apps continue 
>> to retain usefulness.  This is how we install Final Cut Studio and Logic 
>> Studio on Lion systems.
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
> 
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Re: Lion

[Joe Lewis Wilkins]

Minor correction Tim. It's called the Optional Installs mpkg, but thanks for 
the guidance. Without looking for it, I probably would never have found it. 
OTOH, I must have installed it way back.

Joe Wilkins
Architect

On Feb 16, 2012, at 4:15 AM, Tim Jones wrote:

> Simply installed from the "Additional Packages" folder on the Snow Leopard 
> DVD.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Feb 15, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Marty Knapp  wrote:
> 
>> Hey Tim,
>> So you've actually gotten Rosetta to function under Lion? I see lots of 
>> chatter in various forums with some people saying that they got it to 
>> install, but that PPC apps would not run. Did you just do the install off 
>> the Snow Leopard disk, or did you have to do some tweaking to make it work?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Marty K
>>> On Feb 15, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Roger Eller wrote:
>>> 
 On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
 
> Thanks for the info. Interestingly enough my AppleWorks 6.2.9 runs fine
> under Snow Leopard on my Mac Pro, which is Intel. But I'll be careful 
> based
> on your comment.
 Snow Leopard was the last version to include Rosetta for running those
 older applications.
>>> But - if you have the Snow Leopard install DVD, the Rosetta package is 
>>> included.  It installs fine on Lion and then all of the older apps continue 
>>> to retain usefulness.  This is how we install Final Cut Studio and Logic 
>>> Studio on Lion systems.
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>> 
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Re: Another naive iOS question - filling the iPad screen

[Randy Hengst]

Hello Graham,

I use a background image or graphic in all of my apps and follow the steps you 
describe. I hide the status bar. I've not seen the problem you've identified. 
The graphic or image always covers the iPad screen.

I have some time today and tomorrow, so I'll be happy to look at your stack if 
you send it off line.

be well,
randy hengst
-
On Feb 14, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:

> I read that the size of the screen available to a LC stack on the iPad is 
> 1024 x 768, so I made a stack that big. I then placed a graphic on the screen 
> which was intended to provide a black background: I made this 1024 x 768 as 
> well, and I set its top corners to 0,0. Oddly a chunk of white showed at the 
> bottom  of the window, and if I moved my graphic down 24 pixels, the chunk of 
> white showed at the top. So the sizes aren't the same. If I show the stack on 
> the simulator, I get the same effect, i.e. not all the screen is black, but 
> instead a 24-pixel chunk of white appears, always at the top. Is this what's 
> supposed to happen? And anyway why doesn't a graphic made the same size as a 
> stack not actually occupy the same space as a stack?
> 
> Told you I was naive.
> 
> Graham
> 
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Mac OS X 10.8!

[Klaus on-rev]

Hi friends,

just in case you did not know, check this:


No it is not April, 1st! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major.on-rev.com


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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Joe Lewis Wilkins]

BTW Klaus,

Apple's birthday IS April Fool's Day; as is my own and my mother's; so don't 
jest about this. So, should we all wait to move up to Mountain Lion? This is 
too much for a soon to be Octogenarian like me. (sigh!)

Joe Wilkins
Architect

On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:38 AM, Klaus on-rev wrote:

> Hi friends,
> 
> just in case you did not know, check this:
> 
> 
> No it is not April, 1st! :-)
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major.on-rev.com
> 
> 
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AW: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Oh no, not again this soon :(


> Betreff: Mac OS X 10.8!
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> just in case you did not know, check this:
> 
> 
> No it is not April, 1st! :-)
> 


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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Klaus on-rev]

Hi Joe,

Am 16.02.2012 um 15:50 schrieb Joe Lewis Wilkins:

> BTW Klaus,
> 
> Apple's birthday IS April Fool's Day; as is my own and my mother's; so don't 
> jest about this.

oopsie, so sorry :-)

> So, should we all wait to move up to Mountain Lion?

I just delivered the facts and leave this up to you.

> This is too much for a soon to be Octogenarian like me. (sigh!)
> Joe Wilkins
> Architect
> 
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:38 AM, Klaus on-rev wrote:
> 
>> Hi friends,
>> just in case you did not know, check this:
>> 
>> 
>> No it is not April, 1st! :-)

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major.on-rev.com


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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Richard Gaskin]

Klaus wrote:


just in case you did not know, check this:



Thanks for that.

I was wondering when they'd get around to naming a release after 
California's most beautiful animal (well, maybe a close second to the 
pronghorn antelope).


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Scheduling iOS tasks

[Mike Kerner]

Is there a way to schedule LC-built iOS apps to do something in the
background occasionally?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Scheduling iOS tasks

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Mike,

As far as I know, LC apps don't run in the background on iOS. I'd think this is 
currently impossible. 

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Download the Installer Maker Plugin 1.7 for LiveCode here http://qery.us/za

On 16 feb 2012, at 16:30, Mike Kerner wrote:

> Is there a way to schedule LC-built iOS apps to do something in the
> background occasionally?


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Re: want you error expertise

[Richard Gaskin]

Tiemo Hollmann wrote:


from time to time I have customers where my LC 4.6.4 program crashes on
windows machines right away when launching. The only error message is the
generic windows message "windows has encountered a problem".

I know that this can happen from everything. Installation without enough
permissions, missing or corrupted windows files, anti virus programs,
viruses, etc. In most cases I don't find the reason, beside saying "you
could reinstall your windows, etc." Though these cases are below 1% of all
my installations for the customer it is 100% of fault. And they tell me of
course that "all other programs run fine on their computer and just my
program is shit" What it makes worse is that often just these customers do
very hard to operate their computers or even don't have internet access, so
no chance to make remote diagnostics. Because of the 100% unsatisfying
experience for the customer it is also very frustrating for me, not being
able to help.

I am not experienced enough to see if this is a typical LC problem, or an
individual problem of my program (the only "specials" is using Valentina and
some shell calls) or is a LC program  not worse or better as the average of
all windows programs?

How are your experiences and how do you approach these kind of errors / what
do you tell your customers?


Scott Raney used to include this in the MetaCard release notes:

   MetaCard is very good at exposing bugs in the drivers for graphics
   cards.  These problems seem to be most frequent in Windows 98, but
   can plague any Windows system.  The most common symptom are images
   or cursors that draw in the wrong colors or with the mask and data
   reversed, and bits of windows left on the screen when they are
   closed or moved.  Be sure you have the latest drivers from the
   vendor of your graphics card.  If the problem still exists with
   those, try turning acceleration to its lowest level.  If that
   doesn't fix the problem (or even if it does), please report this
   bug to the vendor of your graphics card.

I love that opening line. :)

I used to think that was sheer arrogance.  After all, if MC apps are the 
only ones that crash, how it could it a system problem?


Oh, how I used to argue with Raney over this, but he'd patiently tell me 
to please double-check the drivers and update as needed, and let him 
know if the problem persisted after an update.


In most cases it never did.

So I'd start with that:   make sure the video drivers are the very 
latest from the manufacturer, and if the system in question has any 
unusual devices attached to it (scanners, etc.) make sure those drivers 
are current too.


Also check that any anti-virus software is up to date, and verify 
whether it's truly the case that no other app has had other problems on 
the machine (I sometimes find that frustrated customers may forget in 
their initial report that they've had issues with other apps before).



If all that checks out it may be a problem with the engine, but 
isolating it will take some work.  In such cases I've sometimes found it 
helpful to make a custom build with logging in it, so that the last item 
logged will tell me where it crashed.  That'll be essential for 
diagnosing the issue with RunRev.


You could add logging handlers interspersed throughout your code, but 
it's tedious and not always effective.


Simpler is to use a couple of undocumented things to get a very 
comprehensive log of everything:


-- in your initialization stuff:
on StartLogging
  insert script of btn "LoggerFS" into front
  set the messageMessages to true
  open file (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt") for append
end StartLogging


-- in the LoggerFS button used as a frontScript:
on messageHandled pType, pMessage
  write the internet date && the params &cr to file \
 (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
  pass messageHandled
end messageHandled


-- somewhere in your quit stuff, if your program lives that long:
on StopLogging
  close file ("specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
end StopLogging


Here's what that does:

The messageMessages is a global property that's off by default, but when 
set to true it generates "messageHandled" and "messageNotHandled" 
messages for every system message, command, and function call used in 
any script.


I've never found the "messageNotHandled" message useful since it's only 
sent for messages that aren't handled in the message path, but 
"messageHandled" can be invaluable for this sort of logging since it'll 
tell you the name of pretty much everything that's called during script 
execution.


WARNING:  These logs can be big.  Really big, since they record 
literally everything, including every mouseMove.


It may be wise to filter out some messages less likely to be the 
culprit, e.g.:


on messageHandled pType, pMessage
  if pMessage is not among the items of \
 "mouseMove,idle,mouseEnter,mouseLeave,mouseWithin" then
 write the internet date && pTy

Re: AW: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Peter M. Brigham, MD]

Second prize is *two* trips to Philadelphia

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

> Oh no, not again this soon :(
> 
> 
>> Betreff: Mac OS X 10.8!
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> just in case you did not know, check this:
>> 
>> 
>> No it is not April, 1st! :-)

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Question about operators

[Timothy Bleiler]

Hi,
If I type Put 1<=1 AND 1<=8 into the message box I get true, but if
If I type Put 1<=1<=8 into the message box I get false.

Am I missing something or is the second form not allowed?

Thanks,
Tim Bleiler

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Re: Question about operators

[Peter M. Brigham, MD]

On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote:

> Hi,
> If I type Put 1<=1 AND 1<=8 into the message box I get true, but if
> If I type Put 1<=1<=8 into the message box I get false.
> 
> Am I missing something or is the second form not allowed?

The second form is not a kosher LC statement.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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Re: Question about operators

[Mike Bonner]

What I think is happening is..

1<=1 (evals to true)  so true <=8 is false

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Peter M. Brigham, MD wrote:

> On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > If I type Put 1<=1 AND 1<=8 into the message box I get true, but if
> > If I type Put 1<=1<=8 into the message box I get false.
> >
> > Am I missing something or is the second form not allowed?
>
> The second form is not a kosher LC statement.
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>
>
>
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Re: Scheduling iOS tasks

[Richard Gaskin]

Mike Kerner wrote:

Is there a way to schedule LC-built iOS apps to do something in the
background occasionally?


Unlike most OSes, iOS has such a strong priority for battery life that 
the definition of "multitasking" is a bit different than what you may be 
used to, amounting in most cases to something more like suspend/resume 
than true background operation.


In iOS 4 and earlier, if memory serves there were only four APIs that 
could be used in the background, so most apps had no functionality at 
all unless they were the active one.


With iOS 5 the range of APIs available to background apps has broadened 
dramatically, but it's still just a slender subset of what an app might 
otherwise do so most operations remain verboten for all but the active app.


It's my understanding that LiveCode for iOS doesn't currently 
differentiate between everything it does and the subset that Apple 
allows in the background, so all LC operations are suspended when put 
into the background.


Hopefully that'll change, and RunRev will at least allow our apps to 
have the same background functionality that other iOS apps can have.


But even if they do, you may want to review the iOS developer 
documentation at Apple to determine if what you want your app to do in 
the background is even supported at all in that OS.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
 ambassa...@fourthworld.com   http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Scheduling iOS tasks

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi,

Push notifications would solve this problem, theoretically. Unfortunately, I'm 
not sure how LiveCode apps would handle push notifications, because LiveCode 
apps on iOS always shut down completely. They simply don't run in the 
background. I wonder if it were possible to start a LiveCode app when a push 
notification arrives. That might solve it.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Download the Installer Maker Plugin 1.7 for LiveCode here http://qery.us/za

On 16 feb 2012, at 16:59, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Mike Kerner wrote:
>> Is there a way to schedule LC-built iOS apps to do something in the
>> background occasionally?
> 
> Unlike most OSes, iOS has such a strong priority for battery life that the 
> definition of "multitasking" is a bit different than what you may be used to, 
> amounting in most cases to something more like suspend/resume than true 
> background operation.
> 
> In iOS 4 and earlier, if memory serves there were only four APIs that could 
> be used in the background, so most apps had no functionality at all unless 
> they were the active one.
> 
> With iOS 5 the range of APIs available to background apps has broadened 
> dramatically, but it's still just a slender subset of what an app might 
> otherwise do so most operations remain verboten for all but the active app.
> 
> It's my understanding that LiveCode for iOS doesn't currently differentiate 
> between everything it does and the subset that Apple allows in the 
> background, so all LC operations are suspended when put into the background.
> 
> Hopefully that'll change, and RunRev will at least allow our apps to have the 
> same background functionality that other iOS apps can have.
> 
> But even if they do, you may want to review the iOS developer documentation 
> at Apple to determine if what you want your app to do in the background is 
> even supported at all in that OS.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
> ___
> ambassa...@fourthworld.com   http://www.FourthWorld.com



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Re: Scheduling iOS tasks

[Mike Kerner]

I have, and now that LC is going to support Push and Local Notifications, I
am chomping to put them into action along with some background processing.
After reading through the Push API's last night, it looks like for the
moment I'm going to have to roll my own Push server.  It would be great if
LC would not just support receiving push notifications on iOS but sending
them from desktop/server deployments without me having to write the network
code to do it.  Unfortunately it looks like I'm on my own at the moment.

This brings me to my background processing issue - I don't want to have to
write a push server (that is going to do the work for my app and then send
down what amounts to a tiny fraction of what the app needs) when I can have
the app occasionally (once a day) pull the data itself.

The apps I have on my iOS device that use push to tell me that I have do to
something and badge the app, but then make me wait while the app does the
work are not ideal.  If that's what I have to do, that's what I have to do.


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Scheduling iOS tasks

[Mike Kerner]

Hey Mark,
There are two problems with push:
1) Push messages are limited to 256 bytes, and if the app is not running,
the app doesn't do anything.  The user is notified, and if the user
chooses, s/he can launch the app, and then the app can do something (which
is really clunky on the other apps that I have on my devices that are
implemented this way).  So yes, it would be great if we could send the app
a command via push, but I'm not aware of that being an option yet.
2) There is no LC Push code that I am aware of, so I'm going to have to
roll my own for my desktop/server.  I know I can use and pay for some
third-party access, but I'm not interested in doing that, especially
because I essentially have to do all the work for them anyway.

>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Fun with nummberFormat

[Bob Sneidar]

Hey THAT IS useful! I didn't even know about that one! I will be putting that 
to good use. 

Bob


On Feb 15, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> 
> On Feb 14, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Terry Judd wrote:
> 
>> On 15/02/2012, at 09:07 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> 
>> Yes I know. I was remarking that you can put virtually anything in the 
>> numberFormat and it will pad with zero's.
>> 
>> And all that time I've been 'manually' padding my values. No more!
> 
> I've been using the "format" function instead:
> 
>  put format("%04d","13")
>  -->  0013
> 
>  put format("%08d","121")
>  --> 0121
> 
> That's what I love about LiveCode… you can do the same thing in multiple 
> ways...
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
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Re: Question about operators

[Bob Sneidar]

I have tried that to as a kind of between function. It doesn't work. It will 
evaluate one part which will return true or false, then the next part which 
essentially says true <= 8 which of course is false. 

Bob


On Feb 16, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote:

> Hi,
> If I type Put 1<=1 AND 1<=8 into the message box I get true, but if
> If I type Put 1<=1<=8 into the message box I get false.
> 
> Am I missing something or is the second form not allowed?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tim Bleiler
> 
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AW: want you error expertise

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Richard,
it's really interesting to read your experiences, nice intro of Scott Raney
:) About video drivers I havn't though of at all yet. But I will put it on
my check list.

With the messageMessages could be indeed the last try, good to know. Because
of my program crashes right at launching hopefully the log isn't that big
and I can find anything useful. From time to time I also have explicit
crashes with the Valentina db. The advice of Ruslan was to set the
debuglevel so that I get a debuglog from Valentina. My problem was in a
couple of cases, that Valentina crashed while initialization, before I
actually could set any debug level. So those cases also kept unsatisfied
open without solution (beside of the advice to reinstall the system or
service pack, what I don't want to advice any two left handed customer)

Would you say that LC programs today crash more often as programs of other
languages in your experience, or is it just my personal experience?
Thanks
Tiemo


> 
> Scott Raney used to include this in the MetaCard release notes:
> 
> MetaCard is very good at exposing bugs in the drivers for graphics
> cards.  These problems seem to be most frequent in Windows 98, but
> can plague any Windows system.  The most common symptom are images
> or cursors that draw in the wrong colors or with the mask and data
> reversed, and bits of windows left on the screen when they are
> closed or moved.  Be sure you have the latest drivers from the
> vendor of your graphics card.  If the problem still exists with
> those, try turning acceleration to its lowest level.  If that
> doesn't fix the problem (or even if it does), please report this
> bug to the vendor of your graphics card.
> 
> I love that opening line. :)
> 
> I used to think that was sheer arrogance.  After all, if MC apps are the
> only ones that crash, how it could it a system problem?
> 
> Oh, how I used to argue with Raney over this, but he'd patiently tell me
> to please double-check the drivers and update as needed, and let him
> know if the problem persisted after an update.
> 
> In most cases it never did.
> 
> So I'd start with that:   make sure the video drivers are the very
> latest from the manufacturer, and if the system in question has any
> unusual devices attached to it (scanners, etc.) make sure those drivers
> are current too.
> 
> Also check that any anti-virus software is up to date, and verify
> whether it's truly the case that no other app has had other problems on
> the machine (I sometimes find that frustrated customers may forget in
> their initial report that they've had issues with other apps before).
> 
> 
> If all that checks out it may be a problem with the engine, but
> isolating it will take some work.  In such cases I've sometimes found it
> helpful to make a custom build with logging in it, so that the last item
> logged will tell me where it crashed.  That'll be essential for
> diagnosing the issue with RunRev.
> 
> You could add logging handlers interspersed throughout your code, but
> it's tedious and not always effective.
> 
> Simpler is to use a couple of undocumented things to get a very
> comprehensive log of everything:
> 
> -- in your initialization stuff:
> on StartLogging
>insert script of btn "LoggerFS" into front
>set the messageMessages to true
>open file (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt") for append
> end StartLogging
> 
> 
> -- in the LoggerFS button used as a frontScript:
> on messageHandled pType, pMessage
>write the internet date && the params &cr to file \
>   (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
>pass messageHandled
> end messageHandled
> 
> 
> -- somewhere in your quit stuff, if your program lives that long:
> on StopLogging
>close file ("specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
> end StopLogging
> 
> 
> Here's what that does:
> 
> The messageMessages is a global property that's off by default, but when
> set to true it generates "messageHandled" and "messageNotHandled"
> messages for every system message, command, and function call used in
> any script.
> 
> I've never found the "messageNotHandled" message useful since it's only
> sent for messages that aren't handled in the message path, but
> "messageHandled" can be invaluable for this sort of logging since it'll
> tell you the name of pretty much everything that's called during script
> execution.
> 
> WARNING:  These logs can be big.  Really big, since they record
> literally everything, including every mouseMove.
> 
> It may be wise to filter out some messages less likely to be the
> culprit, e.g.:
> 
> on messageHandled pType, pMessage
>if pMessage is not among the items of \
>   "mouseMove,idle,mouseEnter,mouseLeave,mouseWithin" then
>   write the internet date && pType && pMessage &cr to file \
> (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/MyLog.txt")
>end if
>pass messageHandled
> end messageHandled
> 
> 
> If you want to see an example 

Re: want you error expertise

[Bernard Devlin]

1. Does LC on Windows not produce a crash log the way it does on OS X?
 I would look at that if it exists.  On OS X I've found these logs to
be quite useful in tracking down crashes (mostly, in recent years, in
my experience these crashes have related to externals).

2. If the log does not exist or is of no help, why not select one
customer and send them the simplest possible LC app - one that just
opens, and prints something to a field.That at least will tell you if
is fundamentally the engine.  And if not, (and there is no crash log),
then ...

3. I suspect you have to produce a debug build of your app.  It will
need to load externals one by one, and log what it is doing.  Equally
your debug build would need to load e.g. images one by one, and log
it, in case it is a single image that does it.

An intermediate step between 2 & 3 might be to have your simple app
read the Windows event log (you might have to use VBScript fo this).
It might be a bit much to ask the user to do that.  You could ask your
user to create a new login, and to install something like Skype (which
I believe has screen-sharing), then you could look at the even log
yourself.  In fact, on that matter, why not get your user to create a
new login, and run your app under that new account.  It is worth
eliminating that variable too.

Steps 1 & 2 should require little work, and should give you an idea
whether or not tracking down the cause of the crash is going to be
possible.  If the log exists and you cannot work out what is causing
the crash from it, you could send the first 20 lines to the list (or
to Runrev).

You could try using Ken Ray's Stackrunner as your test app (although
the engine it includes is 4.0).
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm

I absolutely hate it when things just crash.  But very often, one can
take logical steps to isolate the point at which the crash occurs.
Somewhere along the line, the cause is going to be programmer error.
And by hoping that it is one's own error, one at least has the chance
to fix it.  Even if it is an error in an external, there are ways to
work around many things.

Richard's suggestion of logging is very important.  In fact, I think
one ought to build-in logging as a matter of course (including a
feature to make logging more or less verbose).  Under normal
circumstances, an app should check if logging is enabled, and if not
just procede.  It will have minimal impact on the performance.  I know
that this is a bit late for you now.  I think it is Kernighan and
Pikes "Practice of Programming" that said logging should be an
integral part of all applications.

Hopefully you will be able to isolate the problem by going no further
than a debug app that loads other resources one by one and logs them.

Bernard

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB  wrote:
> How are your experiences and how do you approach these kind of errors / what
> do you tell your customers?

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Re: want you error expertise

[Bernard Devlin]

By the way, I found that Valentina 4.7 is the last version that is
usable for Livecode.  Ruslan is aware of the defects I encountered.  I
assume a later version will fix those problems.

Others may well be using 4.8, 4.9 or 5.0 without facing the defects I
faced.  It's just a question of which features one uses.

Thinking about a crash before a debuglevel can be set, it seems that
debugging should be on by default, then switched off when an app is
successfully loaded.  I will bear that in mind for my own logging in
the future.

Bernard

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB  wrote:
> From time to time I also have explicit
> crashes with the Valentina db. The advice of Ruslan was to set the
> debuglevel so that I get a debuglog from Valentina. My problem was in a
> couple of cases, that Valentina crashed while initialization, before I
> actually could set any debug level. So those cases also kept unsatisfied
> open without solution (beside of the advice to reinstall the system or
> service pack, what I don't want to advice any two left handed customer)

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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Thomas McGrath III]

I love the pronghorn antelope.

Also, notes, reminders, notifications and especially AirPlay and Game Center.  
And I just downloaded the new Messages which has a very cool integration with 
iChat, FaceTime, and iMessages. Things just got more interesting.


-- Tom McGrath III
http://lazyriver.on-rev.com
3mcgr...@comcast.net

On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Klaus wrote:
> 
>> just in case you did not know, check this:
>> 
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> I was wondering when they'd get around to naming a release after California's 
> most beautiful animal (well, maybe a close second to the pronghorn antelope).
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> 
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AW: want you error expertise

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Bernard,
thank you for your useful advices, yes win has crash-(event-)logs. I will
give them first a try (just forgot them with my last cases) and keep my own
logging as plan B
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
> boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Bernard Devlin
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2012 18:22
> An: How to use LiveCode
> Betreff: Re: want you error expertise
> 
> 1. Does LC on Windows not produce a crash log the way it does on OS X?
>  I would look at that if it exists.  On OS X I've found these logs to
> be quite useful in tracking down crashes (mostly, in recent years, in
> my experience these crashes have related to externals).
> 
> 2. If the log does not exist or is of no help, why not select one
> customer and send them the simplest possible LC app - one that just
> opens, and prints something to a field.That at least will tell you if
> is fundamentally the engine.  And if not, (and there is no crash log),
> then ...
> 
> 3. I suspect you have to produce a debug build of your app.  It will
> need to load externals one by one, and log what it is doing.  Equally
> your debug build would need to load e.g. images one by one, and log
> it, in case it is a single image that does it.
> 
> An intermediate step between 2 & 3 might be to have your simple app
> read the Windows event log (you might have to use VBScript fo this).
> It might be a bit much to ask the user to do that.  You could ask your
> user to create a new login, and to install something like Skype (which
> I believe has screen-sharing), then you could look at the even log
> yourself.  In fact, on that matter, why not get your user to create a
> new login, and run your app under that new account.  It is worth
> eliminating that variable too.
> 
> Steps 1 & 2 should require little work, and should give you an idea
> whether or not tracking down the cause of the crash is going to be
> possible.  If the log exists and you cannot work out what is causing
> the crash from it, you could send the first 20 lines to the list (or
> to Runrev).
> 
> You could try using Ken Ray's Stackrunner as your test app (although
> the engine it includes is 4.0).
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm
> 
> I absolutely hate it when things just crash.  But very often, one can
> take logical steps to isolate the point at which the crash occurs.
> Somewhere along the line, the cause is going to be programmer error.
> And by hoping that it is one's own error, one at least has the chance
> to fix it.  Even if it is an error in an external, there are ways to
> work around many things.
> 
> Richard's suggestion of logging is very important.  In fact, I think
> one ought to build-in logging as a matter of course (including a
> feature to make logging more or less verbose).  Under normal
> circumstances, an app should check if logging is enabled, and if not
> just procede.  It will have minimal impact on the performance.  I know
> that this is a bit late for you now.  I think it is Kernighan and
> Pikes "Practice of Programming" that said logging should be an
> integral part of all applications.
> 
> Hopefully you will be able to isolate the problem by going no further
> than a debug app that loads other resources one by one and logs them.
> 
> Bernard
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB 
> wrote:
> > How are your experiences and how do you approach these kind of errors /
> what
> > do you tell your customers?
> 
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> subscription preferences:
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AW: want you error expertise

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Good idea!
> 
> Thinking about a crash before a debuglevel can be set, it seems that
> debugging should be on by default, then switched off when an app is
> successfully loaded.  I will bear that in mind for my own logging in
> the future.
> 
> Bernard
> 


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AW: want you error expertise

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

... though I think Valentina wouldn't produce a debuglog file when it
crashes while initializing, probably it has to be up fully to be able to
produce such a logfile, so it wouldn't change anything
My 2 cents
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
> boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2012 18:39
> An: 'How to use LiveCode'
> Betreff: AW: want you error expertise
> 
> Good idea!
> >
> > Thinking about a crash before a debuglevel can be set, it seems that
> > debugging should be on by default, then switched off when an app is
> > successfully loaded.  I will bear that in mind for my own logging in
> > the future.
> >
> > Bernard
> >
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: Can't see my stack

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/15/12 11:34 PM, dunb...@aol.com wrote:

Jacque.


Nothing on close. No handlers at all.


"rev" at the begonning of its name?   Cummon.


Sorry, I didn't mean to be condescending.

There was a bug in the engine about 2 years ago that caused 
Finder-launched stacks not to load, but it happened with any stack and 
was fixed in the next dot release. So that's probably not it. I'm at a loss.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Another naive iOS question - filling the iPad screen

[Graham Samuel]

Randy thanks for the kind offer, but when I tried to create a stripped-down 
version of my stack as a demonstration, I couldn't make it go wrong! I created 
a stack the same size as the iPad screen (1024 x 768) and put a graphic 
rectangle of the same size into it, and it just stayed there with no change in 
the stack size. This is certainly different from what I saw earlier. If I 
include the iOS status bar in the build, then the bottom 24 pixels of my screen 
get cut off, but I suppose that's what is supposed to happen. So my problem 
seems to have been just some weirdness. If I get a repeatable recipe, I'll 
report it.

Thanks again.

Graham

on Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:09:14 -0600, Randy Hengst  wrote:
> 
> Hello Graham,
> 
> I use a background image or graphic in all of my apps and follow the steps 
> you describe. I hide the status bar. I've not seen the problem you've 
> identified. The graphic or image always covers the iPad screen.
> 
> I have some time today and tomorrow, so I'll be happy to look at your stack 
> if you send it off line.
> 
> be well,
> randy hengst
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Re: [OT] HyperCard and the Interactive Web

[Graham Samuel]

You didn't ask what a cloud of unknowing is… there is an interesting answer.

Graham

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:40:34 -0800, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> What is Linux?? And what is "miasmic"? ;-)
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Feb 15, 2012, at 12:33 PM, Richmond wrote:
> 
>> Having said that; this criticism comes from "my own" 'University' of Abertay 
>> where, on the MSc course I attended, we had 3 weeks of lectures
>> on Excel. And, having been told the course was about computers and computer 
>> programming, none of the lecturers seemed to have heard of Linux: probably 
>> as the result of a miasmic cloud of unknowing spreading out from the 
>> 'Microsoft Professor' there.

> 
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Re: Can't see my stack

[dunbarx]

Jacque.


How long have we not known each other?
Do you think I would take real offense at anything you might say?


Anyway, I commented out all open and close handlers, so even suppressing 
messages (per Bob Sneider) has no bearing, as I knew it would not. I changed 
all manner of destroyStack properties; no effect. Changed the file name, even.


I am not sure it is worth pursuing, even for academic reasons. Although I find 
it intriguing that no openStack or similar messages are sent in this opening 
method, unlike all other stack openings, finder or not. The stack works fine, 
otherwise, has for a year.
V. 4.5.3 on a G5, OS 10.4.11.


Craig



-Original Message-
From: J. Landman Gay 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: Can't see my stack


On 2/15/12 11:34 PM, dunb...@aol.com wrote:
> Jacque.
>
>
> Nothing on close. No handlers at all.
>
>
> "rev" at the begonning of its name?   Cummon.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be condescending.

There was a bug in the engine about 2 years ago that caused 
Finder-launched stacks not to load, but it happened with any stack and 
was fixed in the next dot release. So that's probably not it. I'm at a loss.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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RE: Question about operators

[Ralph DiMola]

I just had this situation:

If 1=2 or 1=1 then
Some code would NOT execute here***wrong
End if

BUT

If ( (1=2) or (1=1) ) then
Some code would execute hereCorrect*
End if

OR

If ( 1=2 or 1=1 ) then
Some code would execute hereCorrect*
End if

I just use parens all over the place now.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:09 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Question about operators

I have tried that to as a kind of between function. It doesn't work. It will
evaluate one part which will return true or false, then the next part which
essentially says true <= 8 which of course is false. 

Bob


On Feb 16, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote:

> Hi,
> If I type Put 1<=1 AND 1<=8 into the message box I get true, but if
> If I type Put 1<=1<=8 into the message box I get false.
> 
> Am I missing something or is the second form not allowed?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tim Bleiler
> 
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Re: want you error expertise

[Malte Brill]

Hi Tiemo!

Are you working with HTMLText? Maybe even larger amounts?

I had this in an app. It crashed almost immediately when a larger amount of 
HTMLText was set. The reason was a memory leak in using HTMLText with 4.6.4 
that had been fixed with 5.0.
The workaround for 4.6.4 was to have a space in the starting tags

Some text

if I recall correctly.

hope that is any use.

Cheers,

Malte


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Re: [OT] HyperCard and the Interactive Web

[Richmond]

On 02/16/2012 12:40 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

What is Linux?? And what is "miasmic"? ;-)


One thing I am sure of; is that Linux is not miasmic. Beyond that, dunno!



Bob


On Feb 15, 2012, at 12:33 PM, Richmond wrote:


Having said that; this criticism comes from "my own" 'University' of Abertay 
where, on the MSc course I attended, we had 3 weeks of lectures
on Excel. And, having been told the course was about computers and computer 
programming, none of the lecturers seemed to have heard of Linux: probably as 
the result of a miasmic cloud of unknowing spreading out from the 'Microsoft 
Professor' there.


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Re: [OT] HyperCard and the Interactive Web

[Richmond]

On 02/16/2012 04:21 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 2/15/12 7:53 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

Lynn-

Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 4:28:58 PM, you wrote:


More and more complex tasks will be able to be broken down to three
steps or less.


1. Take it out of the refrigerator.
2. Sniff.
3. Toss it.


This list is almost
Too close to haiku to be
Too comfortable.


That's why
I'm writing this
short riposte.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Richmond]

On 02/16/2012 04:38 PM, Klaus on-rev wrote:

Hi friends,

just in case you did not know, check this:



I wonder what is going to happen, when, at last, Apple hits "system 11" 
. . . will there be any cats left?


Of course 'Slugworth' (pace Charlie and the Chocolate Factory), aka 
Shuttleworth, nicked "Ocelot" while the late
Steve Jobs (may his socks be forever adored, may his manic-depressive 
mood-swings be forever overlooked)

was looking the other way.

I'm waiting for Macintosh Marsupial Sabretooth . . .

And, by-ther-way, isn't a mountain lion the same thing as a cougar



No it is not April, 1st! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major.on-rev.com


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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Richmond]

On 02/16/2012 05:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Klaus wrote:


just in case you did not know, check this:



Thanks for that.

I was wondering when they'd get around to naming a release after 
California's most beautiful animal (well, maybe a close second to the 
pronghorn antelope).


Yer, well . . . naming an operating system "Prong" anything might be a 
bit infra dig.


Even if the late Steve Jobs was a bit of a 'prong' in the system himself.



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: AW: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Richmond]

On 02/16/2012 05:47 PM, Peter M. Brigham, MD wrote:

Second prize is *two* trips to Philadelphia


W.C. Fields forever.



-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:


Oh no, not again this soon :(



Betreff: Mac OS X 10.8!

Hi friends,

just in case you did not know, check this:


No it is not April, 1st! :-)

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Re: [OT] HyperCard and the Interactive Web

[Richmond]

On 02/16/2012 08:23 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:

You didn't ask what a cloud of unknowing is… there is an interesting answer.


Years ago, in the USA, I watched a film called "The Never Ending Story", 
based on a book by Michael Ende,

and it has had a permanent affect on my brain . . .  :)



Graham

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:40:34 -0800, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

What is Linux?? And what is "miasmic"? ;-)

Bob


On Feb 15, 2012, at 12:33 PM, Richmond wrote:


Having said that; this criticism comes from "my own" 'University' of Abertay 
where, on the MSc course I attended, we had 3 weeks of lectures
on Excel. And, having been told the course was about computers and computer 
programming, none of the lecturers seemed to have heard of Linux: probably as 
the result of a miasmic cloud of unknowing spreading out from the 'Microsoft 
Professor' there.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Pete]

Yes, it is, and a puma, and a catamount, and a bunch of other names.  I
just went to a fascinating presentation about these amazing animals.  If
you would like to know more about them, check out felidae.org (info on wild
cats in general) or bapp.org if you're in the San Francisco Bay area.
Pete

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Richmond wrote:

> And, by-ther-way, isn't a mountain lion the same thing as a cougar




-- 
Pete
Molly's Revenge 
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Re: Is there a way to find a lighter and darker shade of a RGB color programmatically?

[Wilhelm Sanke]

On Wed Feb, 2012, Keith (Gulf Breeze Ortho Lab) keith at 
gulfbreezeortholab.com wrote:



Hi All,

I have a problem... If a user selects a color and I put it into a 
variable (as RGB), how can I find a shade that is several shades 
lighter, and a shade that is several shades darker, also in RGB format?


For example, I put 0,255,64 into myVar. (This color a shade of green.) 
Programmatically, how can I find a shade that is several shades 
lighter in green and a shade that is several shades darker in green 
from this base color?


(By the way... Is there a way in LiveCode to determine the hue of a 
color and change the value?)


Any help would be most appreciated...

Thanks!

- Boo



The revcolorchooser stack (in folder Toolsets) contains the old 
conversion scripts of Scott Raney "function RGBtoHSV r, g, b" and - the 
other way round - "function HSVtoRGB h, s, v" (in group "HSV").


Convert you RGB color to HSV and to darken or brighten, just change the 
V-value. For changing the hue values, use H.

Then convert your values back to RGB.
These procedures work rather slowly when you work with whole images and 
not a single color.



A much faster solution is  using "Quasimondo RGB-to-HSL and HSL-to-RGB 
conversions"

 and article "Converting RGB to HSL differently".
For brightening and darkening use the "luminance" value L.

Finally you could use my "brighten/darken" button of my old "Imagedata 
Toolkit" 


Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke


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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Richmond]

On 02/16/2012 09:08 PM, Pete wrote:

Yes, it is, and a puma, and a catamount, and a bunch of other names.  I
just went to a fascinating presentation about these amazing animals.  If
you would like to know more about them, check out felidae.org (info on wild
cats in general) or bapp.org if you're in the San Francisco Bay area.
Pete


Oddly enough, for the geographically challenged, Plovdiv is not in
the San Francisco Bay area.

The biggest cats in Bulgaria are Lynx ( a non-GUI internet browser if 
memory serves me correctly).




On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Richmondwrote:


And, by-ther-way, isn't a mountain lion the same thing as a cougar







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Re: want you error expertise

[Ruslan Zasukhin]

On 2/16/12 7:27 PM, "Bernard Devlin"  wrote:

Hi Barnard,

> By the way, I found that Valentina 4.7 is the last version that is
> usable for Livecode.  Ruslan is aware of the defects I encountered.  I
> assume a later version will fix those problems.
> 
> Others may well be using 4.8, 4.9 or 5.0 without facing the defects I
> faced.  It's just a question of which features one uses.

Hmm, frankly saying I do not remember that issue with 4.7

Do you mean that latest 4.9.1 also not works for you?
If yes, please let me know off list what exactly troubles you have

> Bernard
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB 
> wrote:
>> From time to time I also have explicit
>> crashes with the Valentina db. The advice of Ruslan was to set the
>> debuglevel so that I get a debuglog from Valentina. My problem was in a
>> couple of cases, that Valentina crashed while initialization, before I
>> actually could set any debug level.

Question is why you think it is Valentina dll crashes BEFORE even init?

As I remember you talk about windows.
You do not have crash log like on OS X which exactly show stack of crash ...

As I understand this is only your guess.

You can try btw on your own win computer,
Where your app works, try remove Valentina dlls from its location
And check what wall happens when they are not found at all.


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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Re: AW: want you error expertise

[Ruslan Zasukhin]

On 2/16/12 7:37 PM, "Tiemo Hollmann TB"  wrote:

> Hi Bernard,
> thank you for your useful advices, yes win has crash-(event-)logs. I will
> give them first a try (just forgot them with my last cases) and keep my own
> logging as plan B

Also must be possible I think on windows,
To ask for some info what DLLs app try to load and indeed loads.


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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Re: Question about operators

[Bob Sneidar]

You must be mistaken about why it isn't executing. It is working for me. 

In a button script: 
ON mouseUp pMouseBtnNo
IF 1=2 OR 1=1 THEN put "Awesome!" ELSE put "Bugger!"
END mouseUp

displays "Awesome!"

Bob


On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote:

> I just had this situation:
> 
> If 1=2 or 1=1 then
> Some code would NOT execute here***wrong
> End if
> 
> BUT
> 
> If ( (1=2) or (1=1) ) then
> Some code would execute hereCorrect*
> End if
> 
> OR
> 
> If ( 1=2 or 1=1 ) then
> Some code would execute hereCorrect*
> End if
> 
> I just use parens all over the place now.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:09 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Subject: Re: Question about operators
> 
> I have tried that to as a kind of between function. It doesn't work. It will
> evaluate one part which will return true or false, then the next part which
> essentially says true <= 8 which of course is false. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> If I type Put 1<=1 AND 1<=8 into the message box I get true, but if
>> If I type Put 1<=1<=8 into the message box I get false.
>> 
>> Am I missing something or is the second form not allowed?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Tim Bleiler
>> 
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Re: AW: want you error expertise

[Richard Gaskin]

Tiemo Hollmann wrote:

Would you say that LC programs today crash more often as programs of other
languages in your experience, or is it just my personal experience?


With features comes complexity, and with complexity comes bugs.

I once knew a programmer of a commercial product whose manager actively 
resisted adding new features under the adage, "New code means new bugs!" ;)


Fortunately my own experience is that LC crashes very seldom, and when 
it does I've usually been able to both find a workaround and submit a 
recipe to the team for fixing in the future.


Fingers crossed that your situation will be resolved as well

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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[OT] OS X's Gatekeeper

[Richard Gaskin]

Looks like I may rival Punxsutawney Phil in the prognostication 
department - consider the screen shot in this article:




...and the one in this LiveCode Journal blog post from October 2010:



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond wrote:


I wonder what is going to happen, when, at last, Apple hits "system 11"
. . . will there be any cats left?

Of course 'Slugworth' (pace Charlie and the Chocolate Factory), aka
Shuttleworth, nicked "Ocelot" while the late
Steve Jobs (may his socks be forever adored, may his manic-depressive
mood-swings be forever overlooked)
was looking the other way.


Since you mentioned Mr. Shuttleworth in this OS X 10.8 thread, please 
forgive this moment of fanboyism:



3 Features New to OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion That Ubuntu Already Has



:)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: [OT] OS X's Gatekeeper

[François Chaplais]

Richard, Gatekeeper can be configured to download anything you like, if you 
like.
Le 16 févr. 2012 à 21:53, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> Looks like I may rival Punxsutawney Phil in the prognostication department - 
> consider the screen shot in this article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and the one in this LiveCode Journal blog post from October 2010:
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> 


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RE: Question about operators

[Ralph DiMola]

Yes you are correct. I looked back at the code and it was in a repeat while
analyzing field heights and widths. Back then I looked at that code for an
hour until I convinced myself that something else was going on. Added the
parens and all was good. I will try to create a sample based on my problem
and convince myself again.

Thanks

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11
Cell: 518-796-9332


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 3:20 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Question about operators

You must be mistaken about why it isn't executing. It is working for me. 

In a button script: 
ON mouseUp pMouseBtnNo
IF 1=2 OR 1=1 THEN put "Awesome!" ELSE put "Bugger!"
END mouseUp

displays "Awesome!"

Bob


On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote:

> I just had this situation:
> 
> If 1=2 or 1=1 then
> Some code would NOT execute here***wrong
> End if
> 
> BUT
> 
> If ( (1=2) or (1=1) ) then
> Some code would execute hereCorrect*
> End if
> 
> OR
> 
> If ( 1=2 or 1=1 ) then
> Some code would execute hereCorrect*
> End if
> 
> I just use parens all over the place now.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:09 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Subject: Re: Question about operators
> 
> I have tried that to as a kind of between function. It doesn't work. It
will
> evaluate one part which will return true or false, then the next part
which
> essentially says true <= 8 which of course is false. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Timothy Bleiler wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> If I type Put 1<=1 AND 1<=8 into the message box I get true, but if
>> If I type Put 1<=1<=8 into the message box I get false.
>> 
>> Am I missing something or is the second form not allowed?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Tim Bleiler
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: [OT] OS X's Gatekeeper

[Bob Sneidar]

Impressive young Skywalker!

On Feb 16, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Looks like I may rival Punxsutawney Phil in the prognostication department - 
> consider the screen shot in this article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and the one in this LiveCode Journal blog post from October 2010:
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin


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iOS first steps - icon/splash trouble

[Graham Samuel]

I've progressed to the point of having written a small iPad app for testing 
purposes. It's really a version of something I wrote earlier for the desktop 
(Mac and Windows), fairly easy to adapt because it used one landscape window 
for most user interaction, so I have opted for a landscape-only iPad version. 
If works in the IDE and more or less works on the simulator (sometimes it seems 
to freeze but I don't know why).

Now I'm trying to build the app for my device, an iPad 2. I have a Provisioning 
Profile etc and I can start the build, but I'm having trouble with the required 
splash graphic.

According to the RunRev iOS Release Notes, I need an icon size 72 x 72 for the 
iPad SpringBoard. This seems to be OK. I also need a splash screen for the iPad 
Landscape orientation. There are two conflicting descriptions of this in the 
document: one - referring to item 13 of the Standalone Application Settings - 
says it has to be 1024 x 768; the other says that if you have a personal 
licence for iOS (which is all I have at this stage) then the graphic should be 
600 x 600 pixels and it "will be placed inside the LiveCode banner". Actually 
this doesn't work, as the Standalone Settings warn you to keep to 1024 x 768. 
But that's not the problem: the issue is that when I try to build the 
standalone, I get a warning " No iPad Landscape Splash Screen". I'm looking at 
the settings and there definitely is a path to a 1024 x 768 PNG file in the 
right place.

So what did I do wrong? Any help would be appreciated.

Graham

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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/16/12 3:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


3 Features New to OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion That Ubuntu Already Has



Android already has all those too.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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[ANN] mergExt

[Monte Goulding]

Hi LiveCoders

mergZXing is evolving into a suite of externals called mergExt. A new iOS 
external mergTweet (use the iOS 5 Tweet dialog) is available in addition to the 
four that came with a purchase of mergZXing.

mergZXing also now has a new function to scan an image file to see if there's a 
barcode so you can now pull images from the library, export them and scan.

A new website mergext.com will provide a centralised location for updates and 
user forum/support.

mergZXing is still listed as a product for sale in the RunRev marketplace until 
we can get it changed over to mergExt. If you purchase it there (either as an 
individual product or in the simulcast bundle) then you will receive an account 
on the mergExt website valid for three months of access to updates within 48 
hours. All existing users should have received a registration url by now so if 
you haven't please email me.

Regards,

Monte Goulding
M E R Goulding - Software development services
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Re: Mac OS X 10.8!

[Andre Garzia]

But I am HAPPY with Snow Leopard ARGH... had to do a scavenger hunt to
find XCode 4.2 in the Developer Portal... now it is all about Lion and
Mountain Lion. Guess I will have to migrate soon...

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/16/12 3:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>  3 Features New to OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion That Ubuntu Already Has
>> 
>> >
>>
>
> Android already has all those too.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
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-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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focus-in-field problem

[Nicolas Cueto]

Hello All,


Traversal on? Focus? Something else? I realize now my understanding of
fields and focus is incomplete. A realization begun when watching
MobGUI support-videos. And brought home when my iPhone app opened up
and the keyboard suddenly appeared.

The problem more specifically.


To search for a word, in Text Field A the user types and hits
"Return", which calls a search-function in the card, and the
search-results appear in clickable Text Field B.

Good so far. Because the insert-cursor is still in Text Field A, and
the user can still type text into it.


Next, user clicks on Text Field B, which calls an image-display script
in the card.

Problem! The insert-cursor is flashing in Text Field A, but the user
can not type text into it.


So, how can I not only fix this problem, but do so in a way that, when
I move the stack to a mobile device, the keyboard won't pop-up?

Thanks.
--
Nicolas Cueto

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The target is different on Mac and Windows

[Pete]

I have a mouseDown handler in a menu bar group, necessary because mouseDown
handlers don't trigger if they are in a button in a menu bar group.
 Because of the structure of my card, clicks on other buttons were reaching
the mouseDown handler, causing weird problems so I put a check for the
target at the top of the handler to make sure it was in the right context.
 Weirdly, the target returned the name of the menu bar group, not the name
of the button in the group when, for example, the user clicked the File
menu.  The target did come back with the correct button name when it was
triggered by a button outside the menu bar group.  This was all on a Mac.
 No matter, I checked for the name of the menu bar group at the top of the
handler and all was fine.

So now strange things are happening to some of my beta testers on Windows.
 I check into it and in the same circumstances as above, the target returns
the name of the button in the menu bar group that was clicked, NOT the name
of the menu bar group itself.

Obviously a bug which I will enter at the QCC.  I can deal with this by
checking the platform of course, but it really concerns me that a basic
concept like the target works differently on different platforms, at least
in this circumstance.


-- 
Pete
Molly's Revenge 
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Re: The target is different on Mac and Windows

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/16/12 9:05 PM, Pete wrote:


Obviously a bug which I will enter at the QCC.  I can deal with this by
checking the platform of course, but it really concerns me that a basic
concept like the target works differently on different platforms, at least
in this circumstance.


I don't think it's a bug, but rather a result of the recent change in 
group behavior. You can now set a group to be shared on many cards 
without needing to set its background behvior. Try turning off 
backgroundbehavior on shared menu groups. That way you shouldn't have to 
check the target at all.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: The target is different on Mac and Windows

[Pete]

I'll try that of course, but why would that work differently on Mac than on
Windows?
Pete

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/16/12 9:05 PM, Pete wrote:
>
>  Obviously a bug which I will enter at the QCC.  I can deal with this by
>> checking the platform of course, but it really concerns me that a basic
>> concept like the target works differently on different platforms, at least
>> in this circumstance.
>>
>
> I don't think it's a bug, but rather a result of the recent change in
> group behavior. You can now set a group to be shared on many cards without
> needing to set its background behvior. Try turning off backgroundbehavior
> on shared menu groups. That way you shouldn't have to check the target at
> all.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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>


-- 
Pete
Molly's Revenge 
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Re: The target is different on Mac and Windows

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/16/12 10:25 PM, Pete wrote:

I'll try that of course, but why would that work differently on Mac than on
Windows?


It has something to do with what the engine needs to do to put the Mac 
menu into the system menubar. Whatever that is, it's the same reason you 
can't put scripts in menu buttons for Mac, you have to put them into the 
menu group. I think the buttons are essentially virtualized on a Mac and 
don't really exist when the menu is active in the system bar.


The target is the object that directly received the last message. On a 
Mac that would be the group (since the buttons aren't "real" there and 
didn't really receive a click. The first object to receive a message 
would be the group.) On Windows, the target would be the button itself 
because on that OS, the buttons really are a part of the object hierarchy.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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[ANN] ExtTextInputMode external

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi,

Because I'm doing a lot with RTL and East Asian languages lately and things may 
go wrong if the user of my software uses the wrong keyboard, I wanted to check 
the input language on iOS devices before the user starts typing. There was no 
way to do this in LiveCode AFAIK and thus I decided to make a little external.

The external is called ExtTextInputMode. The function extCurrentInputMode() 
returns the language code of the currently selected keyboard.

The external is available for download from the private section of the 
Economy-x-Talk website and is free for everyone who has made a donation during 
the past year. Go to http://qery.us/1t8 for more information.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Download the Installer Maker Plugin 1.7 for LiveCode here http://qery.us/za


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A shorter way to express this?

[Michael Chean]

Hi:

I'm watching the tutorials (rewatching #3) and I was wondering whether some 
statements can be shortened.

For instance 

repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in field data
 put item 1 of line x of field data into tDataArray[x]["first name"]
 put item 2 of line x of field data into tDataArray[x]["last name"] 
 ...
end repeat

is there something like:
 with field data
 put item 1 of line x into tDataArray[x]['first name']
...
 endwith 

Just wondering.

Mike
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Re: Valentina 5 Platform Announced; Reports, Valentina Studio for Postgre, Valentina DB and SQLite

[Michael Chean]

I know this is sort of off-topic, but will you be supporting Python at any 
point?

Mike
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Re: A shorter way to express this?

[Michael Chean]

Actually thinking about it the with field data is redundant since its also 
referenced in the repeat statement.  

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Re: Any in-house corporate developers?

[Michael Chean]

So what about source control, any applicability here.   Are Diffs possible?


On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> Well said.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2012, at 4:31 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
>
> > Well, I could testify that some developers knows really well
> > their limitations and advantages, because some years ago
> > I was asking a group of them to show the capabilities and
> > power of their platform of choice and create a simple
> > application like this:
> >
> http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/Learn_Japanese_Syllabaries_v092.zip
> > Although I gave them all the graphical elements and described
> > in details the simple algorithms used, none wants to spend
> > their time replicating that simple application.
> >
> > At last, some of them (not all), recognized that certain type
> > of apps could be developed faster and cheaper with RAD
> > tools like LiveCode. But, if none of them took the time to
> > learn a Livecode, How would they know what kind of apps are
> > better suited to develop in LiveCode?
> >
> > That is similar to the Work experience paradox:
> > You can't get work without experience,
> > but you can't get experience without work.
> >
> > Al
>
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Re: A shorter way to express this?

[David Glass]

You could do something like:

put 1 into tArrayIndex
repeat for each line linData in field data
  put item 1 of linData into tDataArray[tArrayIndex]["first name"]
  put item 2 of linData into tDataArray[tArrayIndex]["last name"]
  ...
  add 1 to tArrayIndex
end repeat


On 02/16/2012 9:14 PM, Michael Chean wrote:

Hi:

I'm watching the tutorials (rewatching #3) and I was wondering whether some
statements can be shortened.

For instance

repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in field data
  put item 1 of line x of field data into tDataArray[x]["first name"]
  put item 2 of line x of field data into tDataArray[x]["last name"]
  ...
end repeat

is there something like:
  with field data
  put item 1 of line x into tDataArray[x]['first name']
 ...
  endwith

Just wondering.

Mike


--
David Glass - Gray Matter Computing
graymattercomputing.com
Help Desk: http://www.graymattercomputing.com/helpdesk
559-303-4915

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Re: A shorter way to express this?

[Michael Chean]

Nice, thanks!___
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Re: A shorter way to express this?

[Geoff Canyon Rev]

As David suggested, you should definitely use for each line... As your data
grows it will operate in linear time, while using line x of... will be
something like quadratic time I think.

If fully numerical indexes for your array are acceptable, this would work

   put 1 into i
   repeat for each line L in fld 2
  split L using tab
  put L into x[i]
  add 1 to i
   end repeat
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Re: A shorter way to express this?

[Bob Sneidar]

repeat for each line theLine in theFieldData put your field data into a 
variable trust me
put item 1 of theLine into...

do not alter the contents of theFieldData inside the repeat loop as you will 
hose it. This form of repeat parses the memory so any change in the original IN 
argument screws up the parsing. 

Bob


On Feb 16, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Michael Chean wrote:

> Hi:
> 
> I'm watching the tutorials (rewatching #3) and I was wondering whether some 
> statements can be shortened.
> 
> For instance 
> 
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in field data
> put item 1 of line x of field data into tDataArray[x]["first name"]
> put item 2 of line x of field data into tDataArray[x]["last name"] 
> ...
> end repeat
> 
> is there something like:
> with field data
> put item 1 of line x into tDataArray[x]['first name']
>...
> endwith 
> 
> Just wondering.
> 
> Mike
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Re: Any in-house corporate developers?

[Malte Brill]

> So what about source control, any applicability here.   Are Diffs possible?
> 

Not easiely. The binary nature of a stack makes this incredibly difficult. It 
is possible to write a little plugin that exports all scripts to plain text 
and, to a certain extend it is possible to export a stack to XML and recreate 
it from that. However, version control and colaborative work are not exactly 
easy in liveCode. For me this is the only major downside of liveCode. 

Other things that come to mind I'd see as a downside:
The script editor and to a certain extend the other tools could use an 
overhaul. They are not terrible, but there would be certain things I would 
really love to see (read refactoing). 

Very happy camper otherwise. I love the engine. I love how productive it lets 
me be. Devs are always greedy I guess. Always want better. On the other side, I 
stick with LC since 10 years now (gosh 10 years of derbrill in april) and it is 
my main dev platform, so there must be something to it :-D

Cheers,

Malte


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