[nvidia-graphics-drivers] frustration with slow Nvidia drivers release schedule

[AG Restringere]

Something that has really frustrated me about Ubuntu is how nvidia-graphics
drivers packages are never kept in sync with the upstream release schedule.
 As a former Windows user I learned a long time ago that the way to achieve
the best performance from your machine was to keep up to date with official
Nvidia releases. One of the major disadvantages of Ubuntu is that I have to
wait months for new drivers to be released or have to rely on PPA's which
is a non-ideal situation.

Filed a bug about this: #1219908 http://goo.gl/cjtw8N

The official Nvidia long-lived-branch stable driver is now 319.49. That
> means that the recommended official driver is 319.49 and should be used by
> all Nvidia users except those using old legacy devices. There are important
> fixes that are in this driver and the previous 319.17 that affect Chromium
> browser users especially:
> + Fixed a memory leak that occurred when destroying a GLX window but not
> its associated X window.
>


> These can crash machines using Nvidia GPU's according to a Chromium-bug
> http://crbug.com/145600 "NVIDIA linux drivers are unstable when using
> multiple Open GL contexts and with low memory.:" and if check `about:gpu`
> you will see this is a major reason most if not all Nvidia GPU's are
> currently blacklisted.
>


> Also, when using Windows 7 I am liberty to install any driver version I
> want, keeping my machine up to date with the latest official Nvidia fixes.
> With Ubuntu I'm stuck with older drivers that affect performance and
> contain old bugs that have already been fixed. This leads to a lower
> quality experience than with Windows. Drivers need to be kept current with
> upstream in my opinion. For the time being I have been cherry-picking *.deb
> packages from X-Org-Edgers so that I can replicate that Windows experience
> and it's been working. However, all Ubuntu users should have this
> experience as well and most do not know how to manually install packages
> using DPKG so it is out of their reach.
>


> The current Nvidia driver versions are as follows:
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
>


> Long Lived Branch version: 319.49
> <-- `nvidia-current` should be here as stable
>


> Short Lived Branch version: 325.15 <-- `nvidia-updates` should be here as
> unstable
>


> Legacy GPU version (304.xx series): 304.108 <-- `nvidia-current-legacy`
> should be here.
>


> This situation has to be solved, Ubuntu cannot be so far behind the curve
> that it cannot keep Nvidia drivers fresh and in sync with the upstream
> Nvidia release schedule...
>


>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/1219908


As a Computer Science major and someone who like to learn Linux development
I would like it if one of the Nvidia packagers could come forward and teach
me how to package Nvidia-drivers so we could maintain a semi-official PPA
for the time being that stays in mirror-lock-step with the official
upstream releases.

Best regards,
AGS
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Re: Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 82, Issue 2

[AG Restringere]

By the way, if you would like to see Ubuntu embrace a rapid-release cycle
and release really fresh Nvidia drivers the bug I filed was upgraded to
Wishlist meaning you can actually vote for it being implemented by logging
in to your www.launchpad.net account clicking on "this bug affects me" and
clicking yes.  Thank you.

Bug Link: goo.gl/cjtw8N


On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:

> > Subject: Re: [nvidia-graphics-drivers] frustration with slow Nvidia
>
> > I don't want to
> > have to get the latest downloads and compile them myself.
>
> Erm, actually Nvidia won't provide source and the open source equivalent
> nouveau is part of the kernel but Nvidia do provide an installer just
> like windows so if you want it updated automatically unlike windows
> (even the new geforce experience just checks and downloads the
> installer) then your not being fair to the situation at all and are
> spoilt by how easily Linux is kept securely upto date automatically.
>
> I know because I occasionally power up a big retail game every couple of
> months on Windows and have to wait until I no longer want to play before
> everything is updated. Thankfully more are coming to steam if I can get
> it to work without polkit, actually the problems just it's dreaded
> dependencies that certainly aren't required, an unnecessary result of
> that very easy to update benefit that few are willing to realise or
> fix even with rop attacks.
>
> --
> ___
>
> 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
> together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
> universal interface'
>
> (Doug McIlroy)
> ___
>
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Re: [nvidia-graphics-drivers] frustration with slow Nvidia drivers release schedule

[AG Restringere]

It's very simple:

Nvidia "certifies" a driver in the "long lived branch", when it releases a
new stable driver it recommends every Linux user to install that driver
immediately for the best experience.  Ubuntu has a support obligation make
the latest most up-to-date "certified" drivers available to all users of
currently supported versions especially 12.04 LTS, 13.04 and 13.10.  If
Ubuntu publishes out-of-date drivers and doesn't replace them when there's
a newer one available it's a major problem.  Graphics drivers, second to
the Linux Kernel itself and networking/wifi drivers, are the most important
drivers on a desktop system, they require a very consistent and high level
of maintenance to keep a system in good working order.

*Linux x86/IA32*
Latest Long Lived Branch version:
319.49
<--
this is the STABLE driver, anything before this is out-of-date
Latest Short Lived Branch version:
325.15
<--
this is the BETA driver, for testing purposes
Latest Legacy GPU version (304.xx series):
304.108
<--
this is for legacy users, those with old graphics cards
Latest Legacy GPU version (71.86.xx series):
71.86.15
<--
these are all other legacy drivers for even older cards
Latest Legacy GPU version (96.43.xx series):
96.43.23
 <--
Latest Legacy GPU version (173.14.xx series):
173.14.37
 <--

http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix



On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Jordon Bedwell  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Paulo Roberto de Oliveira Castro
>  wrote:
> > Yes, that is what I was trying to say.
> > They want it work and to be as fast as it can be, without worrying about
> it.
>
> I'm out of this one, the straw man just came out.
>
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Re: [nvidia-graphics-drivers] frustration with slow Nvidia drivers release schedule

[AG Restringere]

> You aren't talking about open source. You're talking about proprietary
software distribution. From a FOSS perspective,  the best
> practice is not to use it.
>
> Scott K

Agree with you on that one, ideally if only Nvidia drivers and the many
wireless cards had open-source drivers this would be solved easily, I would
actually prefer that.  Unfortunately we live in the real world where many
companies still use archaic proprietary methods and we have to work with
them to make sure something like Ubuntu can be useful for everyone.
 Sincerely, I hope Nvidia switches to open-source and makes this easier,
but that's going to take a long time to achieve.  In the mean time the best
we can do is publish Nvidia drivers within days of release and make sure
everyone is using the best possible up-to-date versions.  To do otherwise
just makes an already bad situation - proprietary Nvidia drivers - even
worse.



On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:

> AG Restringere  wrote:
> >> If you have a support contract with Canonical, then maybe Canonical
> >has a
> >> support obligation, but Ubuntu, in particular for proprietary
> >software,
> >has no
> >> support "obligation".
> >
> >No, that's not it, let's not confuse the issue, the commercial side and
> >Canonical has nothing do with what I'm currently advocating. I never
> >mentioned Canonical because I was distinguishing this from the
> >commercial
> >side of things.  This is purely a community support and engineering
> >best-practices issue, not a commercial issue. The Linux Kernel guys
> >have no
> >commercial contracts with us but they embrace "best practices" and use
> >the
> >best recommendations to make sure they provide the best support for the
> >Kernel. It's not commercial it's a community support obligation and
> >engineering best-practices.
> >
> >This is the basis for the open-source Linux community, people helping
> >each
> >other to obtain the best possible systems.  It's also the purpose of
> >Ubuntu, "I am because of who we all are" and "Linux for human beings".
> >To
> >suggest that we need commercial contracts just to get proper device
> >support
> >for very mainstream and common graphics cards defeats the whole purpose
> >of
> >open-source Linux distributions, you might as well get an Apple Mac or
> >Windows computer, there's no point to it.  It's like saying we need a
> >commercial contract with the Linux Foundation just to get support for
> >Intel
> >and AMD CPU's, it's absurd.
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Scott Kitterman
> >wrote:
> >
> >> If you have a support contract with Canonical, then maybe Canonical
> >has a
> >> support obligation, but Ubuntu, in particular for proprietary
> >software,
> >> has no
> >> support "obligation".
> >>
> >> Scott K
> >>
> >> On Friday, September 06, 2013 15:14:55 AG Restringere wrote:
> >> > It's very simple:
> >> >
> >> > Nvidia "certifies" a driver in the "long lived branch", when it
> >releases
> >> a
> >> > new stable driver it recommends every Linux user to install that
> >driver
> >> > immediately for the best experience.  Ubuntu has a support
> >obligation
> >> make
> >> > the latest most up-to-date "certified" drivers available to all
> >users of
> >> > currently supported versions especially 12.04 LTS, 13.04 and 13.10.
> > If
> >> > Ubuntu publishes out-of-date drivers and doesn't replace them when
> >> there's
> >> > a newer one available it's a major problem.  Graphics drivers,
> >second to
> >> > the Linux Kernel itself and networking/wifi drivers, are the most
> >> important
> >> > drivers on a desktop system, they require a very consistent and
> >high
> >> level
> >> > of maintenance to keep a system in good working order.
> >> >
> >> > *Linux x86/IA32*
> >> > Latest Long Lived Branch version:
> >> > 319.49<
> >> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-319.49-driver.html>
> >> > <--
> >> > this is the STABLE driver, anything before this is out-of-date
> >> > Latest Short Lived Branch version:
> >> > 325.15<
> >> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-325.15-driver.html>
> >> > <--
> 

Re: [nvidia-graphics-drivers] frustration with slow Nvidia drivers release schedule

[AG Restringere]

> If you have a support contract with Canonical, then maybe Canonical has a
> support obligation, but Ubuntu, in particular for proprietary software,
has no
> support "obligation".

No, that's not it, let's not confuse the issue, the commercial side and
Canonical has nothing do with what I'm currently advocating. I never
mentioned Canonical because I was distinguishing this from the commercial
side of things.  This is purely a community support and engineering
best-practices issue, not a commercial issue. The Linux Kernel guys have no
commercial contracts with us but they embrace "best practices" and use the
best recommendations to make sure they provide the best support for the
Kernel. It's not commercial it's a community support obligation and
engineering best-practices.

This is the basis for the open-source Linux community, people helping each
other to obtain the best possible systems.  It's also the purpose of
Ubuntu, "I am because of who we all are" and "Linux for human beings".  To
suggest that we need commercial contracts just to get proper device support
for very mainstream and common graphics cards defeats the whole purpose of
open-source Linux distributions, you might as well get an Apple Mac or
Windows computer, there's no point to it.  It's like saying we need a
commercial contract with the Linux Foundation just to get support for Intel
and AMD CPU's, it's absurd.


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:

> If you have a support contract with Canonical, then maybe Canonical has a
> support obligation, but Ubuntu, in particular for proprietary software,
> has no
> support "obligation".
>
> Scott K
>
> On Friday, September 06, 2013 15:14:55 AG Restringere wrote:
> > It's very simple:
> >
> > Nvidia "certifies" a driver in the "long lived branch", when it releases
> a
> > new stable driver it recommends every Linux user to install that driver
> > immediately for the best experience.  Ubuntu has a support obligation
> make
> > the latest most up-to-date "certified" drivers available to all users of
> > currently supported versions especially 12.04 LTS, 13.04 and 13.10.  If
> > Ubuntu publishes out-of-date drivers and doesn't replace them when
> there's
> > a newer one available it's a major problem.  Graphics drivers, second to
> > the Linux Kernel itself and networking/wifi drivers, are the most
> important
> > drivers on a desktop system, they require a very consistent and high
> level
> > of maintenance to keep a system in good working order.
> >
> > *Linux x86/IA32*
> > Latest Long Lived Branch version:
> > 319.49<
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-319.49-driver.html>
> > <--
> > this is the STABLE driver, anything before this is out-of-date
> > Latest Short Lived Branch version:
> > 325.15<
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-325.15-driver.html>
> > <--
> > this is the BETA driver, for testing purposes
> > Latest Legacy GPU version (304.xx series):
> > 304.108<
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-304.108-driver.html>
> > <--
> > this is for legacy users, those with old graphics cards
> > Latest Legacy GPU version (71.86.xx series):
> > 71.86.15<
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-71.86.15-driver.htm
> > l> <--
> > these are all other legacy drivers for even older cards
> > Latest Legacy GPU version (96.43.xx series):
> > 96.43.23<
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-96.43.23-driver.htm
> > l> <--
> > Latest Legacy GPU version (173.14.xx series):
> > 173.14.37<
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-173.14.37-driver.h
> > tml> <--
> >
> > http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Jordon Bedwell 
> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Paulo Roberto de Oliveira Castro
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > > > Yes, that is what I was trying to say.
> > > > They want it work and to be as fast as it can be, without worrying
> about
> > >
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I'm out of this one, the straw man just came out.
> > >
> > > --
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> > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
>
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