Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Nrbrtx]

Thank you for reply, Matthew!

I discovered another great tool - Muon Package Manager. It really rocks.
I'll try to use it as Synaptic replacement.

But please take care about aforementioned bugs. I list them again:
bug 1612948: axi-cache conversion to python3 broke the script (12 users
affected) 
bug 1685376: Synaptic rebuilds search index very often and inefficient (8
users affected) 
bug 1522675: Warning messages about unsandboxed downloads (368 users
affected) 
bug 1533554: Duplicate package entries shown when listing by package origin
(48 users affected) 


With best regards,
Norbert.


On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas 
wrote:

> Nrbrtx wrote on 24/08/17 01:33:
> >…
> > As far I can understand here were two methods of software
> > installation:
> > 1. apt (apt-get), dpkg, aptitude - for advanced users
> > 2. synaptic and Ubuntu software-center - for newbies.
>
> Synaptic is fine for what it is, but it is not even close to being “for
> newbies”. It doesn’t show the real name of any app (unless the name
> happens to be mentioned in the description), it doesn’t show reviews or
> recommendations, it doesn’t show screenshots until you click a “Get
> Screenshot” button each time, and it prominently displays propellerhead
> jargon like “multiverse”, “Mark All Upgrades”, and “Get Changelog”.
>
> > Nowadays gnome-software and mate-welcome were added to the newbies'
> > list. But they have very small lists of software.
> > Ubuntu software-center was great, but its development was dropped.
> >
> > What we have as result?
> >
> > There is only one mature and functional software manager. It is named
> > *Synaptic*. But ... it works very strange. I talk about Ubuntu 16.04.3
> > LTS (!) here. I do not know why you migrated apt-xapian-index to
> > Python3. This migration is incomplete and buggy (see bug 1612948
>
> apt-xapian-index was ported to Python 3 because it was one of the tasks
> necessary for porting Unity to Python 3.
>  apt-xapian-index>
>
> It was also one of the tasks necessary for porting Ubuntu Software
> Center to Python 3. Unfortunately other parts of that project were not
> completed.
>
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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Colin Law]

On 24 August 2017 at 01:33, Nrbrtx  wrote:
> Dear Ubuntu developers!
>
> I'm using Debian since 3.1 and using Ubuntu since 6.06.
> So let me write about installing programs.
>
> As far I can understand here were two methods of software installation:
> 1. apt (apt-get), dpkg, aptitude - for advanced users
> 2. synaptic and Ubuntu software-center - for newbies.
>
> Nowadays gnome-software and mate-welcome were added to the newbies' list.
> But they have very small lists of software.
> Ubuntu software-center was great, but its development was dropped.

Ubuntu software has been replaced by gnome-software. It has exactly
the same set of s/w available as Synaptic does.

Colin

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Nrbrtx]

IMHO gnome-software is too simplified and stupid as all modern GNOME.
No options (except of shortcut to software-properties-gtk), no advanced
search.
I will not use it. 63% of 88 reviews are negative.

> It has exactly the same set of s/w available as Synaptic does.
False.
Let's assume that we need to install libgtk2.0-dev from gnome-software.
How to do it? Simple search of libgtk2.0-dev produces no results (note:
software-center finds and installs this package). Any other ideas?
gnome-software is a toy for installing nice games and GUI applications.


I prefer to use MATE DE with Synaptic (which is powerful, but buggy now) or
maybe Muon (from KDE, does not really matter if it works stable).



On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Colin Law  wrote:

> On 24 August 2017 at 01:33, Nrbrtx  wrote:
> > Dear Ubuntu developers!
> >
> > I'm using Debian since 3.1 and using Ubuntu since 6.06.
> > So let me write about installing programs.
> >
> > As far I can understand here were two methods of software installation:
> > 1. apt (apt-get), dpkg, aptitude - for advanced users
> > 2. synaptic and Ubuntu software-center - for newbies.
> >
> > Nowadays gnome-software and mate-welcome were added to the newbies' list.
> > But they have very small lists of software.
> > Ubuntu software-center was great, but its development was dropped.
>
> Ubuntu software has been replaced by gnome-software. It has exactly
> the same set of s/w available as Synaptic does.
>
> Colin
>
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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Colin Law]

On 26 August 2017 at 17:16, Nrbrtx  wrote:
> IMHO gnome-software is too simplified and stupid as all modern GNOME.
> No options (except of shortcut to software-properties-gtk), no advanced
> search.
> I will not use it. 63% of 88 reviews are negative.
>
>> It has exactly the same set of s/w available as Synaptic does.
> False.
> Let's assume that we need to install libgtk2.0-dev from gnome-software.
> How to do it? Simple search of libgtk2.0-dev produces no results (note:
> software-center finds and installs this package). Any other ideas?
> gnome-software is a toy for installing nice games and GUI applications.

OK, I see where you are coming from. It never occurred to me that
anyone wanting to install libgtk2.0-dev, or similar, would want to use
a GUI. I assumed everyone used apt for that.  Obviously I am wrong.

Colin

>
>
> I prefer to use MATE DE with Synaptic (which is powerful, but buggy now) or
> maybe Muon (from KDE, does not really matter if it works stable).
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Colin Law  wrote:
>>
>> On 24 August 2017 at 01:33, Nrbrtx  wrote:
>> > Dear Ubuntu developers!
>> >
>> > I'm using Debian since 3.1 and using Ubuntu since 6.06.
>> > So let me write about installing programs.
>> >
>> > As far I can understand here were two methods of software installation:
>> > 1. apt (apt-get), dpkg, aptitude - for advanced users
>> > 2. synaptic and Ubuntu software-center - for newbies.
>> >
>> > Nowadays gnome-software and mate-welcome were added to the newbies'
>> > list.
>> > But they have very small lists of software.
>> > Ubuntu software-center was great, but its development was dropped.
>>
>> Ubuntu software has been replaced by gnome-software. It has exactly
>> the same set of s/w available as Synaptic does.
>>
>> Colin
>
>

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Nrbrtx]

>OK, I see where you are coming from. It never occurred to me that
>anyone wanting to install libgtk2.0-dev, or similar, would want to use
>a GUI. I assumed everyone used apt for that.  Obviously I am wrong.
lol :)

In other words gnome-software is not a good alternative for
software-center. It's a bad parody.

So Synaptic bugs should be fixed.
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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 20:32:34 +0300, Nrbrtx wrote:
>>OK, I see where you are coming from. It never occurred to me that
>>anyone wanting to install libgtk2.0-dev, or similar, would want to use
>>a GUI. I assumed everyone used apt for that.  Obviously I am wrong.  
>lol :)
>
>In other words gnome-software is not a good alternative for
>software-center. It's a bad parody.
>
>So Synaptic bugs should be fixed.

Synaptic suffers from far too many issues since a very long time. I
recommend to use a combination of command line tools and your favourite
GUI web browser ;). To see into what packages software from upstream is
split https://tracker.debian.org/ is helpful. Helpful
is https://packages.ubuntu.com/ in combination with Google. Yes, if you
really need to search for something, the devil works better than more
ethical search engines. There are helpers such as auto-apt,
http://www.debiananwenderhandbuch.de/auto-apt.html so you might not to
search anything. Instead of running

  make

after searching the required packages, just running

  auto-apt make

might do the job without searching and installing packages.

Note, I'm more an Arch Linux user and lost a little bit track of Ubuntu
tools, but if I want to do something on Ubuntu, I'm not missing synaptic
when using command line and a web browser. It's vice versa, I would
miss command line and a web browser, when using synaptic again.

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 21:36:36 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>http://www.debiananwenderhandbuch.de/auto-apt.html

The text I found is in English, on the left there is a selection box
were you could chose the language, seemingly the original link is in
German.

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Ralf Mardorf]

PS:

"auto-apt search Xlib.h" -
http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Auto-apt

"sudo auto-apt run ./configure" -
https://www.howtogeek.com/106526/how-to-resolve-dependencies-while-compiling-software-on-ubuntu/

FWIW I only run

  tool update

or

  tool upd

to upgrade everything, since I wrote a script named "tool", so that I
don't need to run the commands for each Ubuntu tool one after the other.

$ cat /usr/local/bin/tool
# snip
 *)
shift
color="-o APT::Color=0"
keepp="-o APT::Keep-Downloaded-Packages=1 "
quiet=""
case $1 in
  -q*|--quiet)
quiet="-qq ";;
esac
case $1 in
# snip
sudo apt update $quiet$color && \
sudo apt-file update && \
sudo auto-apt updatedb && \
sudo auto-apt update-local && \
sudo apt full-upgrade $keepp$color && \
sudo apt autoremove $color;;
# snip


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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Коля Гурьев]

26.08.2017 19:16, Nrbrtx пишет:

Let's assume that we need to install libgtk2.0-dev from gnome-software.
How to do it? Simple search of libgtk2.0-dev produces no results (note: 
software-center finds and installs this package). Any other ideas?

gnome-software is a toy for installing nice games and GUI applications.


And by the way, why are the search results different? These programs use
different repositories?

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Nrbrtx  wrote:
> I discovered another great tool - Muon Package Manager. It really rocks.
> I'll try to use it as Synaptic replacement.

Please also try gnome-packagekit. (It installs an app named Packages).

One more issue with Synaptic is that it does not work on GNOME on
Wayland, the default session in the upcoming Ubuntu 17.10.

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Nrbrtx]

Thank you, Ralf!

> To see into what packages software from upstream is
>split https://tracker.debian.org/ is helpful. Helpful
>is https://packages.ubuntu.com/ in combination with Google.
I'm very familiar with this sites and console utilities - apt-get,
apt-cache, aptitude, dpkg, apt-file (searches not installed files).
Other site I like is pkgs.org. It searches packages in all linux
distibutions (see https://pkgs.org/download/synaptic as example).

>There are helpers such as auto-apt, http://www.debiananwenderhandb
uch.de/auto-apt.html so you might not to search anything. Instead of running
>The text I found is in English, on the left there is a selection box were
you could chose the language, seemingly the original link is in German.
Nice catch!
I have never used auto-apt. I have heard about it, but not used it before.
I'll try to compile something with it :)


>> Коля Гурьев
>And by the way, why are the search results different? These programs use
different repositories?

Theoretically gnome-software should show all packages from APT and AppStream
.
In practice gnome-software is great new program from hipsters, I think. It
is shiny and it is all that we need from it to love it :)

>> Jeremy Bicha
> Please also try gnome-packagekit. (It installs an app named Packages).

I tried gpk-application before writing this first post.
Search in description does not work in it, but search by name works.
Overall functionality is poor.

>One more issue with Synaptic is that it does not work on GNOME on
>Wayland, the default session in the upcoming Ubuntu 17.10.
You mean bug 1712089
, right?
I can't reproduce it on fresh QEMU install. It reports that I use normal
Xorg in all sessions (ubuntu and GNOME).
But synaptic in 17.10 rebuild index often as before, and axi-cache is
broken too.


For now I'm testing Muon and it seems to be very good.

But Synaptic is mature and well-known.

In Debian Stretch it works very stable. It is pre-installed as
recommendation for Xfce, Cinnamon, MATE, LXQT, LXDE and other desktops:
$ apt-cache rdepends synaptic
synaptic
Reverse Depends:
  aptoncd
  task-xfce-desktop
  task-mate-desktop
  task-lxqt-desktop
  task-lxde-desktop
  task-gnome-desktop
  mate-menu
  lxqt-config
  education-desktop-other
  education-desktop-mate
  education-desktop-lxde
  education-desktop-gnome
  cinnamon-desktop-environment
 |apt

In Ubuntu Xenial we have:
$ apt-cache rdepends synaptic
synaptic
Reverse Depends:
  aptoncd
 |apt
  lubuntu-desktop
  update-notifier
  update-manager
 |apt
  mate-menu
  lubuntu-desktop
  cinnamon-desktop-environment
  update-notifier
 |apt
  update-manager

So it *should* work stable on Ubuntu too.
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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Matt Wheeler]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 18:21 Colin Law  wrote:

> OK, I see where you are coming from. It never occurred to me that
> anyone wanting to install libgtk2.0-dev, or similar, would want to use
> a GUI. I assumed everyone used apt for that.  Obviously I am wrong.
>

I'd add to this that aptitude has an excellent curses-based interactive
mode (just run aptitude with no options) which feels similar to synaptic to
use. Very powerful search options (which are also available on the aptitude
command line) and interactive resolver choice selection which is
occasionally very useful.

A surprising number of people on debian-devel were unaware that aptitude
has an interactive mode during a related discussion over there, so I think
it's worth pointing out here too :).

> --

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 01:04:56 +0300, Nrbrtx wrote:
>I have never used auto-apt.

Neither have I. I installed it just in case it should be useful some
day.

>In Debian Stretch it works very stable. It is pre-installed as
>recommendation for Xfce, Cinnamon, MATE, LXQT, LXDE and other desktops

In my experiences synaptic isn't reliable anymore. Fortunately command
line for me has got a special advantage. When booted into Arch Linux I
could maintain my Ubuntu install or vice versa via systemd-nspawn.
While it obviously is possible to use GUIs, I usually even don't use
systemd-nspawns boot option. The most simple way, direct command line
access without booting and without thinking about GUIs, I could build
packages for e.g. claws-mail from git directly for Arch Linux and
Ubuntu.

[root@archlinux rocketmouse]# grep -i pretty /etc/os-release 
PRETTY_NAME="Arch Linux"
[root@archlinux rocketmouse]# systemd-nspawn -qD /mnt/moonstudio 
[root@moonstudio ~]# grep -i pretty /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS"
[root@moonstudio ~]# logout
[root@archlinux rocketmouse]# grep -i pretty /etc/os-release 
PRETTY_NAME="Arch Linux"

After a while I became that used to command line, that I don't want to
use synaptic anymore. Most of the times I also don't use file
managers. I anyway only mount devices by command line. The only
serious disadvantage I experience is wearout of my keyboard. To get a
replacement for a mouse or keyboard that is a pleasure to use, is very
hard for me.

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Hi guys

[Eder Rafo Jose Pariona Espinhal]

How I can download and install tdsodbc, *but from source or manually.*




Best regards

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*Si un problema tiene solución ¿Para que te preocupas?, y si no tiene
solución ¿Para que te preocupas?*
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Re: Hi guys

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:38:03 -0500, Eder Rafo Jose Pariona Espinhal
wrote:
>How I can download and install tdsodbc, *but from source or manually.*

It's available by official repositories for all supported Ubuntu
releases, e.g.

https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=zesty&searchon=names&keywords=tdsodbc

Do you want to build it yourself?

The Debian tracker is an easy way to get more information.

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/freetds

On the right side there are links. One of the links is the upstream
homepage.

It's unclear what you try to archive and what skills you have. Actually
I don't really understand "from source _or_ _manually_".

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Re: Software installation on modern Ubuntu

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 23:10 +0300, Коля Гурьев wrote:
> 26.08.2017 19:16, Nrbrtx пишет:
> > Let's assume that we need to install libgtk2.0-dev from gnome-software.
> > How to do it? Simple search of libgtk2.0-dev produces no results (note: 
> > software-center finds and installs this package). Any other ideas?
> > gnome-software is a toy for installing nice games and GUI applications.
> 
> And by the way, why are the search results different? These programs use
> different repositories?

Perhaps dconf provides an option to enable/disable inclusion of
development packages to search results :D.

Regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/
1551273 it might be, that by design it only shows apps with a GUI :p.

I sardonically assume that it's a political decision to not show GTK2
related packages or even applications that provide a menu bar ;),
excepted of Evolution, much likely the only GNOME app that provides a
menu bar.

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