Re: The Simple Things in Life
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:00:47 +, Xen wrote:
>I still don't like seeing this enp4s0 (under the previous motherboard
>it was enp3s0, go figure) whenever I look under the hood and detest it
>to the bone.
Hi,
this number already changes for my mobo's only network device, if I
remove or add PCI sound cards. I solved it by using a wild card.
$ grep -A2 "dhcpcd_on()" /usr/local/sbin/alice-dhcp
dhcpcd_on() {
echo ; dhcpcd $(basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0)) ; echo
}
Regards,
Ralf
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Re: The Simple Things in Life
Martin Pitt schreef op 21-07-2016 7:09: Xen [2016-07-21 5:22 +0200]: It was ln -s /dev/null /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-setup-link.rules. But that doesn't work, it used to work somewhere at some point. It does work, other than for USB devices, which is LP: #1593379. It got fixed in xenial-updates two days ago. Perhaps you forgot to "update-initramfs -u" after that and have the USB device already connected. Oh you're right. Stupid me. I keep forgetting that, of course it happens in the initrd . *hit self* That thing is not mentioned on the man page (https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/). FWIW, this is the *only* reply to this thread that I will ever do. I'm too busy following by secret agenda to reply to the other mails... Rightly so! This is important work you do. You should be proud of it ;-). More on a serious note, where are the serious notes gone to? I can't find them. I think it is pretty obvious that the interests of regular people are not taken into account but the interests of non-regular people are. That is not right to me. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ubuntu should warn the user if he tries to shutdown or suspend during installation of updates / upgrades
Hello :) As the title says, I think Ubuntu should warn the user if he/she tries to shutdown or suspend during installation of updates / upgrades. Just recently I was doing an upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04, but I had to shutdown the laptop due to a flight and thought that suspend should work. It seems to have upgraded important packages right as I used suspend. Now the device shows an error message and doesn't start anymore. A warning would be great. Thank you! Best regardsZ3 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
Ralf Mardorf schreef op 21-07-2016 11:57:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:00:47 +, Xen wrote:
I still don't like seeing this enp4s0 (under the previous motherboard
it was enp3s0, go figure) whenever I look under the hood and detest it
to the bone.
Hi,
this number already changes for my mobo's only network device, if I
remove or add PCI sound cards. I solved it by using a wild card.
$ grep -A2 "dhcpcd_on()" /usr/local/sbin/alice-dhcp
dhcpcd_on() {
echo ; dhcpcd $(basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0)) ; echo
}
I've also used that strategy somewhere; to just list all devices and
take the head -1 of that.
Coincidentally, that is like the exact equivalent of what I was
proposing, or what I proposed.
This "ls /sys/class/net/enp?s0 | sort" (as a manner of speaking)
produces that condensed list I was talking about. You merely need to
replace each item on the list with ethX where X is the sequence number
in the list (index, order) and you've got the scheme I wanted.
You can't change installed PCI devices on the fly (hopefully, although
they mentioned Thunderbolt which would complicate things) (but I think
Thunderbolt is on a different naming scheme?) so this order and this
list should always stay fixed during the operation of the machine.
But then Martin Pitt would know (probably ;-)) he or she is just not
telling us ;-).
At least the systemd-devel discussion was not any form of vileness, it
was a serious debate in that sense with disregard of some people that
tried to turn it into dogfighting, but those were not named person and
unnamed kernel developer, which were rather respectful both and good
partners in any sense in a debate at all.
So thank you Martin Pitt for your cooperation there but I just did not
like what the kernel dev was doing which was throwing up roadblocks
which have no real merit in reality and I am just a 1000% sure of that.
I am a designer and developer myself. I know when something is bullshit
okay.
You can smell it from a mile away if you have designed enough software
already.
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Re: The Simple Things in Life
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:14:28 +0200, Xen wrote: >You can't change installed PCI devices on the fly No, I need to turn of the computer and after removing or mounting a sound card, I need to boot the Linux install. However, I only have one network device, the mobo's on-board device and enp?s0 has not always the same number. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
Ralf Mardorf schreef op 21-07-2016 15:44: On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:14:28 +0200, Xen wrote: You can't change installed PCI devices on the fly No, I need to turn of the computer and after removing or mounting a sound card, I need to boot the Linux install. However, I only have one network device, the mobo's on-board device and enp?s0 has not always the same number. Inserting another device (such as some serial port controller) in a slot before the soundcard will also change the address of the soundcard, and it will "ruin" the sound configuration you had (at least in KDE) because it will deactivate (but not remove) your older registered devices and it will not find that they are actually the same. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:27:57 +0200, Xen wrote: >Ralf Mardorf schreef op 21-07-2016 15:44: >> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:14:28 +0200, Xen wrote: >>> You can't change installed PCI devices on the fly >> >> No, I need to turn of the computer and after removing or mounting a >> sound card, I need to boot the Linux install. However, I only have >> one network device, the mobo's on-board device and enp?s0 has not >> always the >> same number. > >Inserting another device (such as some serial port controller) in a >slot before the soundcard will also change the address of the >soundcard, and it will "ruin" the sound configuration you had (at >least in KDE) because it will deactivate (but not remove) your older >registered devices and it will not find that they are actually the >same. You can enforce that a sound card becomes alsa hw:0 and nothing else is required, since the sound servers use alsa. Write a /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf with options snd slots=driver_name for example $ cat /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf # ALSA module ordering options snd slots=snd_hdspm,snd_ice1712,snd_ice1712 I just noticed, that on my machine the do-release-upgrade must have removed some very important configs, seemingly /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf, too. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 17:27:38 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >I just noticed, that on my machine the do-release-upgrade must have >removed some very important configs, seemingly >/etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf, too. Oops, it was only a false alarm. I don't know why it's missing, but it's also missing in a backup I made before I upgraded, so it was not removed by the do-release-upgrade. An /etc/security config I was missing, is still were it should be, IOW it isn't missing. Perhaps I made a typo when I tried to ls or to cat it. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:19:34 +0200 Xen wrote: > > FWIW, this is the *only* reply to this thread that I will ever do. > > I'm too busy following by secret agenda to reply to the other > > mails... > > Rightly so! This is important work you do. You should be proud of it > ;-). How about you give us a link to the systemd-devel thread about this? Then we will be able to read the source, instead of your interpretation and attacks. Cheers, ..C.. pgpiOPO1mGKBb.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
C de-Avillez schreef op 21-07-2016 21:48: On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:19:34 +0200 Xen wrote: > FWIW, this is the *only* reply to this thread that I will ever do. > I'm too busy following by secret agenda to reply to the other > mails... Rightly so! This is important work you do. You should be proud of it ;-). How about you give us a link to the systemd-devel thread about this? Then we will be able to read the source, instead of your interpretation and attacks. If you wanted that, you would already have found it, so I don't think you do. I don't give people stuff they are not interested in, or are only interested in in order to break someone down, such as that you are demonstrating here. Regards. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 22:02:53 +0200 Xen wrote: > C de-Avillez schreef op 21-07-2016 21:48: > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:19:34 +0200 > > Xen wrote: > > > > > > > >> > FWIW, this is the *only* reply to this thread that I will ever > >> > do. I'm too busy following by secret agenda to reply to the other > >> > mails... > >> > >> Rightly so! This is important work you do. You should be proud of > >> it ;-). > > > > > > How about you give us a link to the systemd-devel thread about this? > > Then we will be able to read the source, instead of your > > interpretation and attacks. > > If you wanted that, you would already have found it, so I don't think > you do. ... > I don't give people stuff they are not interested in, or are only > interested in in order to break someone down, such as that you are > demonstrating here. But here you are referring to a mail thread on systemd-devel, and ranting about how people that know what they are talking about (and even tried to argue with you about it) do not agree with you. So, no, this thread *is* important. It puts your comments in context. https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel%40lists.freedesktop.org/msg35744.html And, still, you antagonise people because you think they do not see your PoV. You succeeded in getting Martin uninterested in discussing this further with you. This is the end of the thread, for me as well. But the other subscribers should have the source. I am not interested in breaking anyone down. I am, though, interested in understanding what is going on. Cheers, ..C.. pgpWwtTi6gLEW.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The Simple Things in Life
C de-Avillez schreef op 21-07-2016 22:19: But here you are referring to a mail thread on systemd-devel, and ranting about how people that know what they are talking about (and even tried to argue with you about it) do not agree with you. I never said they didn't know what they are talking about. I said they apparently, evidence themselves, to have reasons, to deny the needs of real individual users, and favour only a select group of users that have needs that are now being met in some mediocre way (according to me, but I am sure a lot of people will agree with it) while costing all of those other people a whole lot, and then these costs are being downplayed and these benefits are being exaggerated. Whenever something like that happens you just know something is fishy. But just as the kernel developers are rumoured not to put up with bullshit, neither should I be expected to (or anyone). So, no, this thread *is* important. It puts your comments in context. https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel%40lists.freedesktop.org/msg35744.html Actually that was the second thread, apologies. I had forgotten there were two. That is also an annoying archive and it cost myself a great deal to find one that actually works, which is the main archive :p. the threads (both of them, but I guess they are only one) are at https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2016-April/thread.html and you can find them easily if you scroll down. And, still, you antagonise people because you think they do not see your PoV. You succeeded in getting Martin uninterested in discussing this further with you. You mean here? That is of no consequence. The discussion ended with Greg KH trying to explain to me that hardware was event driven and that as such devices could only make their presence known using events, as if speaking to a child, whereas *apparently* device drivers actually poll for devices (we were only talking about "onboard" devices here) and if they can't find any they quit - there is no wait time here that can suddenly extend for hours. He even tried to explain to me that if hardware changes between boots (e.g. you add or remove hardware) that it would require "events" for the system to be notified about those changes. Now you can stretch things very far but the system does not produce events while powered off. But the only way I would get some truth on this (from my perspective) was apparently to just dive into the source code of some ethernet driver and see what it did. At the same time they were /insisting/ that hardware can show up hours after booting the system (have you ever seen that happen, for onboard or physically-present devices?) and that as such, not only in a theoretical but also practical manner, the discovery phase of onboard hardware never ends, and that it therefore would be conceptually impossible to define any such end-point. I'm sorry but I just don't like to be bullshitted in that way. It is completely obvious for any practical system such as my own, that all hardware is found within seconds. So I don't know why this "theoretical implication" is important and they never revealed this, as such it was nothing more than a knock-down argument. Greg apparently insisted on talking in hypotheses and never alluded to any real-world example. And based on this conceptual truth that was only demonstrated by talking about event-driven-hardware, where device drivers actually poll for hardware and if any events ever result from that, it is likened to a callback measure, and apparently very well-bounded in time (in any practical ,real system), based on this conceptual truth I was then supposed to accept that in practical terms any definition of an end-point in device discovery (for onboard devices, not usb or thunderbolt) would be unviable. When it is completely obvious that in any real and functional system as we have today your hardware will be discovered within seconds. Many people alluded to having boot times measured in seconds for their systems. If you can boot to your desktop in 5 seconds I am sure you can also discover your network devices within any bounded timeframe. But I am repeating myself now. They gave no good reason why a division in phases (device discovery, name remapping, network starting) would not be possible. Other than by pointing to vague ideas of why it wouldn't work, refusing to become concrete with their statements, and keeping everything "up in the air" as to why it wouldn't work. I am a programmer myself and yes I did study operating systems although it was long ago. If I don't understand something I like to get down to the core of it as to why that is so. And these answers did not suffice. Now perhaps no one ever has a need or requirement to please this here person that I am, but that is not important. The first three messages in the entire thread were these, and please apologize my
