Re: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic" menu into Unity

[Mayank Rungta]

I am not sure if this is the right forum but since this topic has been 
touched I wanted to know how well the unity interface has been received. 
I see a lot of posts on returning to the classic gnome. It appears that 
there are just too many people out there missing the classic features.


Basic things like Alt Tab behave very differently killing the purpose of 
virtual desktops (grouping as you roll through all the windows) and 
grouping of similar windows again is a problem as I would have a 
particular type of application (say Thunderbird) on the same Desktop. I 
can't wait for Alt Tab expand - the older method was so much simpler and 
faster. Any particular reason to change it? I can't customize any of the 
panels - can't add shortcuts to panels, resize them, add panels, etc. 
The worst part is a lot of these things I am not even able to revert 
back to. Why is the new interface so rigid?


I am myself moving to StumpWM now to make things easier for myself - at 
least predictable at a much better performance. A colleague is even 
contemplating creating a light weight desktop based on StumpWM with 
basic things in place as it is so much faster. Haven't tried xmonad yet. 
At least StumpWM gives a good mix of using mouse and keyboard. But for 
my newbie friends I was hoping the current interface was simpler or 
behaved like the conventional desktop.


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On 12/01/2011 08:32 AM, Ray Perigo wrote:
There seems to be much griping going about regarding Unity, in 
particular the lack of a "classic" menu - admittedly, I'm one of those 
gripers. I see no reason why a simple applications (a-la GNOME 2.x) 
menu can't be added as a right-click function on the Dash button. This 
sort of menu is a must-have for a lot of users, and this sort of 
implementation would allow it to coexist peacefully with the Dash/Lenses.


Cheers,
Ray Perigo


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Re2: An idea about unity and classic stuff

[David Gao]

Well, I like unity, but I still think it good to add some classic elements. I 
think we at least need a classic menu, and some panels. Unity has a great 
launcher, which reduces my clicks a lot. The lens just mix everything together, 
and can be a great problem when I have plenty of music and applications stored 
on my computer. I have to always search. I wonder if we could have something 
like folders in our lens, and do not have to always show everything in the 
category.
I hope you can understand what I say because I am not a native English speaker.

Best wishes for ubuntu, unity and everyone.
David Gao



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Unity and Classic

[Carlos Havel]

There seems to be a 50/50 tide up about Unity and Classic. ¿Wouldn't it be 
possible split the issues among both? Let's say,  april releases with classic 
menu and october releases with unity?

Otherwise, Ubuntu is going to loose half of it's users.(I among them).

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Re: Unity and Classic

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 12:12, Carlos Havel a écrit :
There seems to be a 50/50 tide up about Unity and Classic. ¿Wouldn't 
it be possible split the issues among both? Let's say,  april releases 
with classic menu and october releases with unity?

Otherwise, Ubuntu is going to loose half of it's users.(I among them).

Hi,

What do you mean? If what you mean "Classic" is gnome-panel the package 
is available in all versions of Ubuntu and you can keep using it, nobody 
is forced to use the default desktop, it takes less than a minutes to 
install gnome-session-fallback, logout and log in with it selected


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Re: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic" menu into Unity

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 04:02, Ray Perigo a écrit :
There seems to be much griping going about regarding Unity, in 
particular the lack of a "classic" menu - admittedly, I'm one of those 
gripers. I see no reason why a simple applications (a-la GNOME 2.x) 
menu can't be added as a right-click function on the Dash button. This 
sort of menu is a must-have for a lot of users, and this sort of 
implementation would allow it to coexist peacefully with the Dash/Lenses. 

Hi,

You can probably install easily something doing that, see for example 
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/06/use-classic-menu-in-unity-classicmenu.html


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Re: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic" menu into Unity

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 09:14, Mayank Rungta a écrit :
I am not sure if this is the right forum but since this topic has been 
touched I wanted to know how well the unity interface has been 
received. I see a lot of posts on returning to the classic gnome. It 
appears that there are just too many people out there missing the 
classic features.
Unity has been received well by some users and less well by some others, 
you mostly read about the unhappy ones on the internet for several 
reasons (one being that happy users usually don't feel the need to start 
discussions about what is working fine for them, another ones is that 
the people who are interested in participating to online discussions 
about their computers are also the ones who like to be able to tweak 
things and the one that will got unhappy about lack of customization).


Basic things like Alt Tab behave very differently killing the purpose 
of virtual desktops (grouping as you roll through all the windows) and 
grouping of similar windows again is a problem as I would have a 
particular type of application (say Thunderbird) on the same Desktop. 
I can't wait for Alt Tab expand - the older method was so much simpler 
and faster. Any particular reason to change it? 


No reason, in fact the switcher will be working "by workspace" in the 
next version so that should address your issue.


I can't customize any of the panels - can't add shortcuts to panels, 
resize them, add panels, etc. The worst part is a lot of these things 
I am not even able to revert back to. Why is the new interface so rigid?
Because adding options and customability takes time and efforts and 
makes the code harder to maintain and get working (you have complexity 
and cases to test every time you give an option), it's also not 
something most users care about tweaking (look at windows users or macos 
ones to see how many want to tweak their "panel and applets", most users 
are just fine with the default layout). Nobody forces you to use unity, 
if that sort of customization is important to you, you can try xfce or 
kde or gnome-panel for example.


I am myself moving to StumpWM now to make things easier for myself - 
at least predictable at a much better performance. A colleague is even 
contemplating creating a light weight desktop based on StumpWM with 
basic things in place as it is so much faster. Haven't tried xmonad 
yet. At least StumpWM gives a good mix of using mouse and keyboard. 
But for my newbie friends I was hoping the current interface was 
simpler or behaved like the conventional desktop.


Great that you find something that works for you!

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We can have Ubuntu Classic

[David Gao]

Putting different desktop environments in different releases is really a good 
idea, but we can do a lot better than that. These two DEs are just some 
packages, and obviously we can support them both. We can have different 
editions sharing most applications, one with unity, the other one with G2, just 
like what we do to KDE. We can treat G3 shell in the same way. Probably we can 
name the classic one Ubuntu Classic.

David Gao



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Re: Re2: An idea about unity and classic stuff

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 11:08, David Gao a écrit :

Well, I like unity, but I still think it good to add some classic elements. I 
think we at least need a classic menu, and some panels. Unity has a great 
launcher, which reduces my clicks a lot. The lens just mix everything together, 
and can be a great problem when I have plenty of music and applications stored 
on my computer. I have to always search. I wonder if we could have something 
like folders in our lens, and do not have to always show everything in the 
category.

Hi,

Great that you like unity ;-) If you prefer a "classic menu", you can 
easily install softwares that provide one (see one of my previous emails 
on this list and topic). Why do you feel you need "some panels"? What is 
missing from the unity one for you? If you have lot of datas searching 
will always be easier than trying to figure an organization scheme that 
works, especially that different users have different way of working and 
would want the same thing from the interface.
Did you try to use the lenses for a while? Browsing applications in the 
applications lens should be similar to using menus, it lists the same 
content, has the same categories, they are just displayed as filters 
rather than submenus.


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Thanks for help about unity

[David Gao]

Thanksfor your advises. I have been following ubuntu since 10.04 from every 
beta 1, and have seem most changes taking place in unity. The idea is great. 
Maybe I should get used to searching... And how linux works. I still think we 
should pick different default wallpapers for different DEs though.



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Re: Unity and Classic

[Ronan Lucio]

Hi Carlos,

I'm not sure about it.
I know there are so many users prefering the old gnome style.

I think the best option would be a simple way to config which interface the
users prefers, like on 11.04 version.
So the user could choice between Unity, Gnome3 or Gnome-Fallback (Classic)

But it think this option must exists for all Ubuntu versions.

Ronan

2011/12/1 Carlos Havel 

> **
> There seems to be a 50/50 tide up about Unity and Classic. ¿Wouldn't it be
> possible split the issues among both? Let's say,  april releases with
> classic menu and october releases with unity?
>
> Otherwise, Ubuntu is going to loose half of it's users.(I among them).
>
> Carlos Havel
>
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Re: Unity and Classic

[Shane Fagan]

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Ronan Lucio  wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I'm not sure about it.
> I know there are so many users prefering the old gnome style.
>
> I think the best option would be a simple way to config which interface the
> users prefers, like on 11.04 version.
> So the user could choice between Unity, Gnome3 or Gnome-Fallback (Classic)
>
> But it think this option must exists for all Ubuntu versions.

There is an option just install gnome classic. Splitting our efforts
helps no one and pulls resources away from making Ubuntu keep up with
what Windows 8 is going to be doing. Id say if you don't like
something in Unity you should share your experience and preference and
see if there is something more we could be doing just saying I don't
like it doesn't really help anyone understand why you don't like it.

Shane

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Re: Unity and Classic

[Matt Alexander]

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Shane Fagan wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Ronan Lucio  wrote:
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > I'm not sure about it.
> > I know there are so many users prefering the old gnome style.
> >
> > I think the best option would be a simple way to config which interface
> the
> > users prefers, like on 11.04 version.
> > So the user could choice between Unity, Gnome3 or Gnome-Fallback
> (Classic)
> >
> > But it think this option must exists for all Ubuntu versions.
>
> There is an option just install gnome classic. Splitting our efforts
> helps no one and pulls resources away from making Ubuntu keep up with
> what Windows 8 is going to be doing. Id say if you don't like
> something in Unity you should share your experience and preference and
> see if there is something more we could be doing just saying I don't
> like it doesn't really help anyone understand why you don't like it.
>


I don't like it because I can't find the most common apps anymore.  I used
to be able to navigate through the Applications menu using general
categories like Graphics, Games, Sound  & Video, etc.  Now I stare blankly
at a dialog box that expects me to have memorized every app name that I
might use and I have to TYPE THAT COMMAND LINE NAME IN.  WTF.  That's a
terrible user experience.
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Re: Unity and Classic

[Ray Perigo]

Carlos,

Well, there IS a "Filter Results" dropdown that brings up the application
categories. It works, but this method takes a few more mouse clicks than I
would like. I posited another idea in a different thread to just add the
classic menu functionality into the Dash button as a right-click event.
This way, the interface itself isn't changed (no additional buttons, Dash
and Lenses continue to work as they do), and those of us who want a more
old-school approach to finding apps get to have it.

//Ray Perigo
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Matt Alexander <
ubuntu@mattalexander.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Shane Fagan 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Ronan Lucio  wrote:
>> > Hi Carlos,
>> >
>> > I'm not sure about it.
>> > I know there are so many users prefering the old gnome style.
>> >
>> > I think the best option would be a simple way to config which interface
>> the
>> > users prefers, like on 11.04 version.
>> > So the user could choice between Unity, Gnome3 or Gnome-Fallback
>> (Classic)
>> >
>> > But it think this option must exists for all Ubuntu versions.
>>
>> There is an option just install gnome classic. Splitting our efforts
>> helps no one and pulls resources away from making Ubuntu keep up with
>> what Windows 8 is going to be doing. Id say if you don't like
>> something in Unity you should share your experience and preference and
>> see if there is something more we could be doing just saying I don't
>> like it doesn't really help anyone understand why you don't like it.
>>
>
>
> I don't like it because I can't find the most common apps anymore.  I used
> to be able to navigate through the Applications menu using general
> categories like Graphics, Games, Sound  & Video, etc.  Now I stare blankly
> at a dialog box that expects me to have memorized every app name that I
> might use and I have to TYPE THAT COMMAND LINE NAME IN.  WTF.  That's a
> terrible user experience.
>
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Re: Unity and Classic

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 17:11, Matt Alexander a écrit :


I don't like it because I can't find the most common apps anymore.  I 
used to be able to navigate through the Applications menu using 
general categories like Graphics, Games, Sound & Video, etc.


Is the issue there only the number of click to display the application 
lens with the installed applications not reduced to the default 1 line 
and with the filters on the side? This cycle Unity should make it things 
a bit easier there by:
- letting you add lenses icons directly to the launcher, if you access 
often the application one you could get it there

- remember some of the dash settings cross sessions

Would you be happy with the application lens if it opened directly from 
the launcher with filters already on screen and the list unfolded for you?


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Re: Unity and Classic

[Ray Perigo]

This isn't a bad idea either. At least having the filters already onscreen
would make things a little more usable. I would wager a lot of people don't
readily correlate the phrase "Filter Results" with "Application
Categories", or just don't see the dropdown.

Further on this topic, instead of a rigid set of default apps, what about
moving the Frequently Used section from the Apps lens into the home lens?

With this in place, the Frequently Used section in the Apps lens would be
redundant. That could be removed, and with the filters already onscreen
things would be roughly as streamlined as a classic-style menu.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Sebastien Bacher  wrote:

> Le 01/12/2011 17:11, Matt Alexander a écrit :
>
>
>> I don't like it because I can't find the most common apps anymore.  I
>> used to be able to navigate through the Applications menu using general
>> categories like Graphics, Games, Sound & Video, etc.
>>
>
> Is the issue there only the number of click to display the application
> lens with the installed applications not reduced to the default 1 line and
> with the filters on the side? This cycle Unity should make it things a bit
> easier there by:
> - letting you add lenses icons directly to the launcher, if you access
> often the application one you could get it there
> - remember some of the dash settings cross sessions
>
> Would you be happy with the application lens if it opened directly from
> the launcher with filters already on screen and the list unfolded for you?
>
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>
>
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Re: login window functionality request - gdm?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 17/11/2011 21:02, David O. Rowell a écrit :

I can appreciate that GDM (or whatever) doesn't have access to the
user's preferences.  Would it hurt anything if both buttons were
allowed? There isn't any conflicting action that I can see.

Hi,

What version of Ubuntu and login manager do you use? gdm used to react 
on both mouse buttons I think (well at least the version before the 
rewrite did), that seems a reasonable feature request for lightdm as 
well, you should open a bug about it on 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+filebug


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Re: Unity and Classic

[Matt Alexander]

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Sebastien Bacher  wrote:

> Le 01/12/2011 17:11, Matt Alexander a écrit :
>
>
>> I don't like it because I can't find the most common apps anymore.  I
>> used to be able to navigate through the Applications menu using general
>> categories like Graphics, Games, Sound & Video, etc.
>>
>
> Is the issue there only the number of click to display the application
> lens with the installed applications not reduced to the default 1 line and
> with the filters on the side? This cycle Unity should make it things a bit
> easier there by:
> - letting you add lenses icons directly to the launcher, if you access
> often the application one you could get it there
> - remember some of the dash settings cross sessions
>
> Would you be happy with the application lens if it opened directly from
> the launcher with filters already on screen and the list unfolded for you?
>

I'm not sure what "application lens" means.  When I click the Ubuntu icon,
I get a full screen of 8 icons.  Let's say I'm interested in that Brain
game that I used to play on 10.04, but can't remember what the actual name
was.  So I type "brain".  I get an empty page back.  Hmm, OK, well,  let's
try something else.  How do I get back?  I have to click the Ubuntu icon
twice.  The first makes the blank results page go away.  The second brings
back the default 8 icons.  I then click "More Apps".  Hmm, it's not in the
short displayed list of apps.  I then click the tiny text that says, "See
89 more results" and scroll through lots of apps until I find the "brain"
icon that I remember from 10.04.  That's quite a bit of work compared to
10.04.

I totally missed the "Filter results" option before.  If that list of
categories was available after clicking the Ubuntu icon, then I'd be
happy.  I could then simply go Ubuntu icon -> Games -> gbrainy.

Another idea...  let's say I want to use gimp (and it's not installed yet),
so I type in "gimp" into the search box.  Instead of a confusing blank
page, provide a link to install the gimp package.

Thanks for considering this.
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Re: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic" menu into Unity

[Mayank Rungta]

Le 01/12/2011 09:14, Mayank Rungta a écrit :
I am not sure if this is the right forum but since this topic has 
been touched I wanted to know how well the unity interface has been 
received. I see a lot of posts on returning to the classic gnome. It 
appears that there are just too many people out there missing the 
classic features.
Unity has been received well by some users and less well by some 
others, you mostly read about the unhappy ones on the internet for 
several reasons (one being that happy users usually don't feel the 
need to start discussions about what is working fine for them, another 
ones is that the people who are interested in participating to online 
discussions about their computers are also the ones who like to be 
able to tweak things and the one that will got unhappy about lack of 
customization).
Actually yes most of my circle is filled with people who like things to 
work a particular way.


Basic things like Alt Tab behave very differently killing the purpose 
of virtual desktops (grouping as you roll through all the windows) 
and grouping of similar windows again is a problem as I would have a 
particular type of application (say Thunderbird) on the same Desktop. 
I can't wait for Alt Tab expand - the older method was so much 
simpler and faster. Any particular reason to change it? 


No reason, in fact the switcher will be working "by workspace" in the 
next version so that should address your issue.

Great! :)


I can't customize any of the panels - can't add shortcuts to panels, 
resize them, add panels, etc. The worst part is a lot of these things 
I am not even able to revert back to. Why is the new interface so rigid?
Because adding options and customability takes time and efforts and 
makes the code harder to maintain and get working (you have complexity 
and cases to test every time you give an option), it's also not 
something most users care about tweaking (look at windows users or 
macos ones to see how many want to tweak their "panel and applets", 
most users are just fine with the default layout). Nobody forces you 
to use unity, if that sort of customization is important to you, you 
can try xfce or kde or gnome-panel for example.
I did try kde - was too slow . As for customization windows at least 
allows quick launch icons and moving icons around. Even the fall back 
takes me to a rather rigid gnome. Can't change much.


I am myself moving to StumpWM now to make things easier for myself - 
at least predictable at a much better performance. A colleague is 
even contemplating creating a light weight desktop based on StumpWM 
with basic things in place as it is so much faster. Haven't tried 
xmonad yet. At least StumpWM gives a good mix of using mouse and 
keyboard. But for my newbie friends I was hoping the current 
interface was simpler or behaved like the conventional desktop.


Great that you find something that works for you!
Yes I am good or shall be in some time. What I am hoping is the default 
works for most people. I have given unity quite some time and I am 
hoping it improves in the new releases! :)


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Re: Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 61, Issue 1

[Anthony G Weitekamp]

?ters din sistemul nostru ?n scurt timp.
>
> Distrac?ie pl?cut?!
> Echipa Badoo
>
>
> Acest email ?i-a fost trimis pentru c? un utilizator Badoo  ?i-a l?sat un
> mesaj pe Badoo. Acest email este generat automat. R?spunsurile la acest
> mesaj nu vor fi monitorizate ?i nu for primi niciun alt r?spuns. Dac? nu
> vrei s? mai prime?ti alte mesaje de la Badoo, te rug?m notific?-ne:
> http://eu1.badoo.com/impersonation.phtml?lang_id=62&mail_code=21&email=ubuntu-devel-discuss%40lists.ubuntu.com&secret=&block_code=badb85&m=21&mid=4ed67427003ef0b60fa3
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> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:02:26 -0500
> From: Ray Perigo 
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic" menu
>   into Unity
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There seems to be much griping going about regarding Unity, in particular
> the lack of a "classic" menu - admittedly, I'm one of those gripers. I see
> no reason why a simple applications (a-la GNOME 2.x) menu can't be added
> as
> a right-click function on the Dash button. This sort of menu is a
> must-have
> for a lot of users, and this sort of implementation would allow it to
> coexist peacefully with the Dash/Lenses.
>
> Cheers,
> Ray Perigo
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> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 13:44:40 +0530
> From: Mayank Rungta 
> To: Ray Perigo 
> Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic"
>   menu into   Unity
> Message-ID: <4ed73770.9070...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> I am not sure if this is the right forum but since this topic has been
> touched I wanted to know how well the unity interface has been received.
> I see a lot of posts on returning to the classic gnome. It appears that
> there are just too many people out there missing the classic features.
>
> Basic things like Alt Tab behave very differently killing the purpose of
> virtual desktops (grouping as you roll through all the windows) and
> grouping of similar windows again is a problem as I would have a
> particular type of application (say Thunderbird) on the same Desktop. I
> can't wait for Alt Tab expand - the older method was so much simpler and
> faster. Any particular reason to change it? I can't customize any of the
> panels - can't add shortcuts to panels, resize them, add panels, etc.
> The worst part is a lot of these things I am not even able to revert
> back to. Why is the new interface so rigid?
>
> I am myself moving to StumpWM now to make things easier for myself - at
> least predictable at a much better performance. A colleague is even
> contemplating creating a light weight desktop based on StumpWM with
> basic things in place as it is so much faster. Haven't tried xmonad yet.
> At least StumpWM gives a good mix of using mouse and keyboard. But for
> my newbie friends I was hoping the current interface was simpler or
> behaved like the conventional desktop.
>
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>
> On 12/01/2011 08:32 AM, Ray Perigo wrote:
>> There seems to be much griping going about regarding Unity, in
>> particular the lack of a "classic" menu - admittedly, I'm one of those
>> gripers. I see no reason why a simple applications (a-la GNOME 2.x)
>> menu can't be added as a right-click function on the Dash button. This
>> sort of menu is a must-have for a lot of users, and this sort of
>> implementation would allow it to coexist peacefully with the
>> Dash/Lenses.
>