Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 21:54 -0400, Derek Broughton wrote: > James Westby wrote: > > > On Mon Nov 30 13:47:34 -0500 2009 John Moser wrote: > >> List some not-silly reasons. > > > > You're serious? Ok. > > > > * Takes a long time to crack any password that's not in the dictionary > > and > > more than a few characters long. > > * Rainbow tables would be too large to fit on the CD. > > Actually, that's probably the best reason right there. > > -- > derek > > Can anyone tell me why nobody actually cares about what Conrad Knauer was talking about in the first place ? How in did a discussion about making the Ubuntu installer look simpler, become a debate about whether some password or network security mechanism (or whatever) is crackable or not ? Focus people, any real thoughts about simplifying the Installer ? For me the Ubuntu install process doesn't get any easier, but I have to agree that it still LOOKS (as in what you see, not what you actually get) a bit complicated. And I also agree that hiding some of the options, people usually don't change, can help. Any thoughts ? P.S: no rumble about cracking password or I'll send the tooth fairy to hunt you down :) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
msql broken
Ok I am a noob..kind of. Been a geek all my life but took the next step to geek hood and got ubuntu. But I cannot fix msql server. I can't get rid of it, or anything. Its so annoying. I have tried all the apt-get -f and everything nothing works. Please help. here is the code that I am getting when I try and fix the bug. oh and I can't report the bug because ubuntu tells me that msql is not a ubuntu package. HELP!!! Thanks all. Setting up mysql-server-5.0 (5.0.51a-3ubuntu5.4) ... /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh: line 84: INITOUTPUT: unbound variable invoke-rc.d: initscript mysql, action "stop" failed. chown: cannot access `/var/run/mysqld': No such file or directory Reloading AppArmor profiles : done. /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh: line 84: INITOUTPUT: unbound variable invoke-rc.d: initscript mysql, action "start" failed. dpkg: error processing mysql-server-5.0 (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 Errors were encountered while processing: mysql-server-5.0 E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Adam Strawcutter -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
gthumb vs fspot
After watching the uds video on applications, Here are my general findings as a novice user of both tools for photo editing. Gthumb runs faster than fspot by about 10 second on one folder holding about 69 photos. >From what I can see both apps grab the same info from the camera however I prefer the way that gthumb displays this. Captions can be added to photos in both gthumb and f-spot Gthumb and fspot both have similar tool set for editing: Redeye removal: is more intuitive in gthumb but gives an overall more natural look in f-spot Auto enhance: gthumb leaves f-spot in the dust. although gthumb takes longer to complete the image is far clearer and all colours are enhanced nicely. Crop: The gthumb give you a nice windowed tool for this which I think makes you feel as a novice like your not ballsing up your real photo. However both apps do this with relevant ease. resize: I think f-spot and gthumb both do this with the same level of ease although in both cases I think it would be better to display % rather than pixels how as a general user would I know how many pixels to reduce a photo by, however I can see if it needs to be about 10% smaller. Gthumb is let down by uploads to web photo albums like picasa flickr etc I think if this could be added then gthumb would be a better app over all, neither tool can upload to gallery2 which is pretty mich the de-facto self build web/photo server which I think is a massive oversight. On the whole you could replace f-spot with gthumb and most users simply wouldn't notice, f-spot does organising no better or worse now, it's only 2 big advantages I see are uploading to online galleries and timeline view. Dave Morley -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
ASSERT hit in malloc.c (eglibc)
Hi, Since updating to Ubuntu v9.10 and thus moving to eglibc, libtorrent-rasterbar users are experiencing regularly an ASSERT hit in malloc.c: qbittorrent: malloc.c:3929: __libc_valloc: Assertion `!p || mchunkptr)((char*)(p) - 2*(sizeof(size_t)->size & 0x2) || ar_ptr == (mchunkptr)((char*)(p) - 2*(sizeof(size_t)->size & 0x4) ? ((heap_info *)((unsigned long)(((mchunkptr)((char*)(p) - 2*(sizeof(size_t) & ~((2 * (512 * 1024))-1)))->ar_ptr : &main_arena)' failed. What does this mean? glibc users are unable to reproduce the issue. Note that the new libtorrent-rasterbar extensively uses valloc to get aligned memory. More information (including backtrace) is available here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qbittorrent/+bug/490024 Best regards, Chris. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
snmp bugfixing for LTS
Hi there, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/net-snmp/+bug/426813 this bug is set to fixed in karmic, maybe it is. But the LTS Hardy just uses the old buggy package, could there be a patch for this system too? regards Jörg -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Here lies the responsiblity
Well we've certainly seen a few problems with Karmic. I have reports from new or upgrading users of crashing applications etc. So here is what I see as the major problem. Ubuntu has had such good success that to many people, Ubuntu and Linux are one and the same thing. Ubuntu = Linux and Linux = Ubuntu. Canonical now has the responsibility, yes let me say that again, "Canonical has a responsibility", to the entire Linux world, to be very careful with what they put out. Now I have no problem with releasing Karmic but please, for all the rest of us, including other distributions and companies that have worked hard over many years to promote Linux, MARK IT AS DEVELOPMENT. Karmic has some great stuff in it and I applaud the developers but it has done nothing good for Linux on the desktop in the eyes of new and upgrading users not to mention the media. Canonical, you have the power, accept responsibility. Save the usable releases to well debugged versions. Make this crystal clear to all the media as well. Cheers -- George Farris george.far...@viu.ca Vancouver Island University "As Open Source continues to explode, and as we continue to see such huge growth and success as it spreads across the world and into different industries, we all need to remember that the raw ingredients that make this happen are enthusiastic, smart, decent people, and I for one feel privileged to spend every day with these people." Jono Bacon -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Simple question on directfb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi list I was looking at the merge of directfb [1] and I have a simple doubt Debian has made their package compatible with dh 7 [2] in which case is the dh_installchangelogs option necessary? or will dh 7 pick it up through dh_auto_install/dh_install ? Waiting for a reply Regards [1] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/directfb/1.2.7-2ubuntu1 [2] http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/directfb/directfb_1.2.8-5/changelog - -- Bhavani Shankar.R https://launchpad.net/~bhavi, a proud ubuntu community member. What matters in life is application of mind!, It makes great sense to have some common sense..! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.10) iD8DBQFLCKxsL+KnYRaooWIRAucdAJ930iajZ+sm2RShMXSi9Nz+lnQRFgCfTTWl kQDBkKZ2V5xyTk+05DoQMoQ= =N0lx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Simple question on directfb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:19 AM, Andrea Gasparini wrote: > Hi, > >> Debian has made their package compatible with dh 7 [2] in which case >> is the dh_installchangelogs option necessary? or will dh 7 pick it up >> through dh_auto_install/dh_install ? > > A run of > dh --no-act > will show you all the commands still not executed to complete that action > ( look at the dh man page for further explainations ) > So, in a clean directory, a > dh binary --no-act > will give you the whole sequence of commands. > Hi gaspa and list again looked at man dh it states that To see what commands are included in a sequence, without actually doing anything: dh binary-arch --no-act Your reply in this context is bit confusing to me Sorry for the disturbance Regards - -- Bhavani Shankar.R https://launchpad.net/~bhavi, a proud ubuntu community member. What matters in life is application of mind!, It makes great sense to have some common sense..! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.10) iD8DBQFLCpD0L+KnYRaooWIRAmMkAJ0WxQEc1wqWexyfkUk7iO+pRl5k/QCfZ7pX dQ4sflpoL+QREn1/9lwhXTA= =jfI8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Simple question on directfb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Andrea Gasparini wrote: > Hi, > >> To see what commands are included in a sequence, without actually doing >>anything: >> >>dh binary-arch --no-act >> >> Your reply in this context is bit confusing to me > > Please forgive me in case I didn't understand something, but if I caught > what you asked for, you should have an output similar to this: > > $ dh clean > [... cleaning the package directory... ] > $ dh binary --no-act > dh_testdir > debian/rules override_dh_auto_configure > dh_auto_build > debian/rules override_dh_auto_test > dh_testroot > dh_prep > dh_installdirs > dh_auto_install > debian/rules override_dh_install > dh_installdocs > dh_installchangelogs > dh_installexamples > dh_installman > dh_installcatalogs > dh_installcron > dh_installdebconf > dh_installcatalogs > dh_installemacsen > dh_installifupdown > dh_installinfo > dh_installinit > dh_installmenu > dh_installmime > dh_installmodules > dh_installlogcheck > dh_installlogrotate > dh_installpam > dh_installppp > dh_installudev > dh_installwm > dh_installxfonts > dh_bugfiles > dh_lintian > dh_gconf > dh_icons > dh_perl > dh_pysupport > dh_usrlocal > dh_link > dh_compress > dh_fixperms > dh_strip > dh_makeshlibs > dh_shlibdeps > dh_installdeb > dh_gencontrol > dh_md5sums > dh_builddeb > > Note: I'm doing this on a package of mine, not directfb :P, so your output > could be different. > Yeah means those commands are executed in a sequence when clean is invoked right? Regards - -- Bhavani Shankar.R https://launchpad.net/~bhavi, a proud ubuntu community member. What matters in life is application of mind!, It makes great sense to have some common sense..! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.10) iD8DBQFLCpgrL+KnYRaooWIRAqUOAJ0UWN62wjoYjoeZj4OQB6mDn577DQCgmGJ3 oZZRiKKE87KXeRDTbgNrjUQ= =q3KE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
fixing support for user collaboration / running apps as separate user
Hello list, looking for an answer why sharing files between users on the same system is so hard, I have stumbled accross wiki enties and blog posts about how (im)possible it is to collaborate for users on ubuntu systems. The possibility of sharing access to files amoung users is a fundamental feature in multi user systems. It is generally known as "to work well under unix/linux". It is important beginning already with a computer user that want's to run say firefox under a separate user ID (and still be able to save downloads accessible for the primary user account) or a family computer, not to speak from any workgroup server. I'd like to bring to the attention of the ubuntu developers: The *nix collaboration features are not configured correctly in ubuntu. I have found the page MultiUserManagement in the ubuntu wiki documents the issues that prevent smooth user interaction. (Together with solutions.) In case of one related bug report the maintainer is actually waiting for a discussion on this list. Nessessary are only a couple of changes in the shipped configuration files, but together they make ubuntu a system that allows effortless and fine grained collaboration amoungst users. It's about having the private user groups (used in debian/ubuntu) work properly as designed with group, incomming and private directories. A developer would need to step forward for this. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiUserManagement Kind Regards, Christian -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Simple question on directfb
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:43:49 +0530 Bhavani Shankar R wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >Hi list > >I was looking at the merge of directfb [1] and I have a simple doubt > >Debian has made their package compatible with dh 7 [2] in which case >is the dh_installchangelogs option necessary? or will dh 7 pick it up >through dh_auto_install/dh_install ? > >Waiting for a reply > >Regards > >[1] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/directfb/1.2.7-2ubuntu1 >[2] >http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/directfb/directfb_1.2.8-5/changelog > My advice is test it and see what result you get. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
I'm picturing a single dialog with an overview of the current values and options to change them. The fields I've marked as buttons would have the current value as the button text so the user only has to click the value to change it. Language: [English (US)] (this would be a droplist) Location: [New York, United States] (this would be a button that opens the map) Keyboard: [USA] (droplist) Partition: [Use unpartitioned space (120GB)] (button which opens advanced partitioning dialog) User details: [Not yet provided] (button to open dialog for full name, username and password) [_] Log in automatically (that's a checkbox) [_] Encrypt home directory Computer name: [Not yet provided] (button to open dialog) [Quit] [Install] Default for language is determined by what they chose after entering the CD. Default for location can be determined by IP geolocation if they are set up with local DHCP and have internet access. Default for keyboard can be USA. Default for partition can be determined based on whether another OS exists, size of unallocated partitions and whether there are any completely empty partitions. "Not yet provided" if the user needs to manually choose a partition to erase. No default for user details. Default for log in automatically: Unchecked. Default for encrypt home directory: Unchecked. No default for computer name. The button text for user details could change to something like [Fred Smith (fredsmith)] after the user has entered their info. This would make it faster to install as you can skip sections that already have correct defaults. It also gives the user an immediate overview of what needs to be configured. And the concept of having the installer automatically determine where you are is completely awesome. If the service is hosted by Canonical it may give a clue as to how many installations are being done. -Ryan On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Mohammed Bassit wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 21:54 -0400, Derek Broughton wrote: > > James Westby wrote: > > > > > On Mon Nov 30 13:47:34 -0500 2009 John Moser wrote: > > >> List some not-silly reasons. > > > > > > You're serious? Ok. > > > > > > * Takes a long time to crack any password that's not in the > dictionary > > > and > > > more than a few characters long. > > > * Rainbow tables would be too large to fit on the CD. > > > > Actually, that's probably the best reason right there. > > > > -- > > derek > > > > > > Can anyone tell me why nobody actually cares about what Conrad Knauer > was talking about in the first place ? > > How in did a discussion about making the Ubuntu installer look > simpler, become a debate about whether some password or network security > mechanism (or whatever) is crackable or not ? > > Focus people, any real thoughts about simplifying the Installer ? > > For me the Ubuntu install process doesn't get any easier, but I have to > agree that it still LOOKS (as in what you see, not what you actually > get) a bit complicated. And I also agree that hiding some of the > options, people usually don't change, can help. > > Any thoughts ? > > > P.S: no rumble about cracking password or I'll send the tooth fairy to > hunt you down :) > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:27 AM, James Westby wrote: > * It's a feature of dubious value to begin with. After it had taken some > time doing its thing you would need to have the user type in the password > anyway to confirm (you can't assume, and you can't really show it to them). Quite. "Cracking" the password is pointless. All we need to know is whether the password matches the hash (just like windows). So in this case we could in principle fill the second password field with stars, and announce a match as soon as the password the user enters matches the hash from XP. In fact we don't even need the user to enter the actual password until they login. We could add support for NT hashes to PAM and copy the NT hash. We probably wouldn't want to copy the "LM" hash, as this is the insecure easily broken hash*, and if the user wipes XP we wouldn't want copies of this to be left lying around. Allowing a mass import of users from windows may help if the machine has several users, of whose passwords the administrator may not know (or want to know). (*) according to: http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netsecur/article.php/3783156/Use-Ophcrack-to-Defuse-Windows-Security-Timebomb.htm > Can we please spend our time on other worthwhile features and not argue about > whether "cracking" tools should exist for all to use or not? Since we can get the NT hash without cracking anything, it may be worthwhile. If we import the NT hash, detect region and mirror from IP/traceroute, then we do not need to ask the users any questions. We could go straight to the "Review and Install" screen that could look like: +--[Review and Install] | These are the settings detected by Ubuntu. If you are familiar with these settings you may want to customize them. However if you do not understand these settings it is safe (and recommended) to leave them unchanged. | | Language: English | | Administrator Username: xp | Administrator Password: * (Same as Windows) | Other authorized users: john, user, guest (import from windows) | | Region: Perth/WA | Mirror: ftp.iinet.net.au | Partition Sizes: | Main '/' Partition: 100 GiB (%50 of remaining space) | Swap Size: 2 GiB | Keyboard Type: US/International | | [Cancel] [Install] | +--- The Language could be chosen at the boot menu as it is now, or detected from windows. -- John C. McCabe-Dansted -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
I think the issue is that you need to have the user enter the password anyway, for the users sake. The user needs to know and remember the password, which is why the installer asks twice already. The original idea was to use the windows password so the user doesn't need to be asked during install. Not everyone can use such a feature, as not everyone has a non-compromised Windows installation with a good password that they also remember. The few that do can just re-enter the password since everyone needs to be able to remember and enter the password. Any sort of password automation would simplify the situation for a few people at the expense of making it more complicated for the rest of us. The level of encryption doesn't seem to matter. I think the main issue is that the interface needs to help the user focus on the task at hand. I think you could combine a few screens to make it simpler. Combining all the screens goes too far IMHO. - proposal - Screen 1: Language selection Screen 2: Welcome Have an overview of the install process here, to communicate it to those who haven't done it before. Keyboard/etc should be guessed from the language selection. Have buttons on the side to change anything that was guessed. Screen 3: Partitioning (Step one according to the welcome screen) I really think this should be separate, but that is just because it scares me. Screen 4: Information (Step two) Any other information needed should be gathered in a combined screen, so passwords and time information. Screen 5: Confirmation and advanced options. As it is already. Ideally screen 1 would be eliminated from ubiquity and the boot selection used. Anything in screen 4 not needed to install should be defered. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: msql broken
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:46:14AM -0500, Adam Strawcutter wrote: > Ok I am a noob..kind of. Been a geek all my life but took the next step > to geek hood and got ubuntu. But I cannot fix msql server. I can't get > rid of it, or anything. Its so annoying. I have tried all the apt-get -f > and everything nothing works. Please help. here is the code that I am > getting when I try and fix the bug. oh and I can't report the bug > because ubuntu tells me that msql is not a ubuntu package. HELP!!! > Thanks all. The package is actually mysql. As this seems like a support issue you might consider asking a question about this in Ubuntu's answer tracker at http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/. -- Brian Murray @ubuntu.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
I agree with Daniel that combining all the screens goes to far, but I sort of like the concept behind Ryan's single-screen dialogue. How about something like this: Screen 1: Welcome Brief welcome message. Language - From what they chose at boot, dropdown list. Keyboard - Autodetected as it already is, dropdown list. Location/TimeZone - Autodetected, otherwise to "Unknown [GMT]", a button to open current map dialogue. Computer Name - textbox, default text "ubuntu-desktop" Screen 2: Installation Location The current partitioning screen, but simplified/hidden even more. Text like: "Ubuntu will be installed beside Windows XP on this machine. How much space do you want to give to Ubuntu?" A scroll box (in percent, I would think) of free space. A button that says "Change" which takes you to the current partitioning screen. Screen 3: Users Not sure how best to merge the import screen and the user-info screen, but I think they should both go into one screen here. Perhaps have a dialogue for create-a-user which opens by default (this allows manual entry or importing for all data). Then ask "Create another user?" (opens the dialogue again) or "Done?". Screen 4: Confirmation Since the fourth screen doesn't really require much interaction, we could do some marketing with our "three-step install" or something along those lines. Just my two cents, Evan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Daniel Hollocher wrote: > password. Any sort of password automation would simplify the > situation for a few people at the expense of making it more > complicated for the rest of us. The level of encryption doesn't seem > to matter. OK. The issue where we want to migrate multiple users for whom the admin does not know the password may be better handled by the Migration Assistant. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MigrationAssistant/Karmic -- John C. McCabe-Dansted -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
One of my pet peeves with the installer is how long it takes to detect the partitioning...and redetect it every...single...operation...so...slowly. My suggestion is that GParted be used to handle this. In fact I often use that to do the partitioning BEFORE I do the installer because I don't want to slog through it. On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:40 AM, John McCabe-Dansted wrote: > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Daniel Hollocher > wrote: > > password. Any sort of password automation would simplify the > > situation for a few people at the expense of making it more > > complicated for the rest of us. The level of encryption doesn't seem > > to matter. > > OK. The issue where we want to migrate multiple users for whom the > admin does not know the password may be better handled by the > Migration Assistant. > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MigrationAssistant/Karmic > > -- > John C. McCabe-Dansted > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Here lies the responsiblity
At the risk of inciting a "riot of epic proportions", I would like to propose an alternate hypothesis: Ubuntu <> Linux. I think it might be worthwhile to consider and to market Ubuntu for what it is, a community-developed collection of free software (kernel, toolchain, GNU utilities, applications) backed by an awesome extended community (developers, LoCo's, translators, artists, advocates, sponsors, testers.) A thought experiment: Would Ubuntu still be Ubuntu without its monolithic (Linux) kernel? Would "average" users still adopt Ubuntu if it were using some other kernel? Would they care? (Test case: Apple's switch to the Mach microkernel in the late nineties.) Ubuntu has done a fantastic job on the desktop, grabbing market share ferociously and delighting users worldwide. This has never been done before by a system using a Linux kernel. There are bound to be bumps along the road... Ultimately the responsibility for further greatness and adoption of Ubuntu rests mostly with the community that is Ubuntu, and with Canonical as its guide. Cheers, Randall Ubuntu Vancouver Buzz Generator ubuntu-devel-discuss-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com wrote: > From: George Farris > Subject: Here lies the responsiblity > To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: <1258574419.10449.20.ca...@falcon> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Well we've certainly seen a few problems with Karmic. I have reports > from new or upgrading users of crashing applications etc. > > So here is what I see as the major problem. > > Ubuntu has had such good success that to many people, Ubuntu and Linux > are one and the same thing. Ubuntu = Linux and Linux = Ubuntu. > > Canonical now has the responsibility, yes let me say that again, > "Canonical has a responsibility", to the entire Linux world, to be very > careful with what they put out. Now I have no problem with releasing > Karmic but please, for all the rest of us, including other distributions > and companies that have worked hard over many years to promote Linux, > MARK IT AS DEVELOPMENT. > > Karmic has some great stuff in it and I applaud the developers but it > has done nothing good for Linux on the desktop in the eyes of new and > upgrading users not to mention the media. > > Canonical, you have the power, accept responsibility. > > Save the usable releases to well debugged versions. Make this crystal > clear to all the media as well. > > Cheers > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
I'm not sure if I like this proposal -- I believe splitting things up into small steps makes it easier on the user. For one thing, the first questions we ask are the language and the keyboard layout, which are essential to the user's understanding of the rest of the installer. Many users won't set their language at the CD bootloader because there's a timeout on it anyway. By making it all one step, non-English speakers may have trouble figuring out how to change the language, for one thing. Also, having side-effects like having the keyboard layout change depending on the selected language, in one screen of the dialog, may be confusing and unfriendly. In addition, I believe dropdowns for long lists such as languages should be avoided -- they're less intuitive to scroll through, and more transitory. Selecting the language for your operating system is a BIG step -- and deserves a screen to itself, with appropriate widgets, and setting the language first on its own screen will create a more seamless transition to the installer in the language of the user's choice. The other problem is that partitioning is an inherently confusing operation for most users. By having a screen dedicated to it with visual cues like the ones we have already, such as showing a bar chart with amounts of space allocated to different operating systems, a user who may not know what exactly a partition is will come to an understanding of what it means. Splitting the installer into several steps leads to a less overwhelming first impression of the installer. 2009/12/1 Ryan Dwyer > I'm picturing a single dialog with an overview of the current values and > options to change them. The fields I've marked as buttons would have the > current value as the button text so the user only has to click the value to > change it. > > Language: [English (US)] (this would be a droplist) > Location: [New York, United States] (this would be a button that opens the > map) > Keyboard: [USA] (droplist) > Partition: [Use unpartitioned space (120GB)] (button which opens advanced > partitioning dialog) > User details: [Not yet provided] (button to open dialog for full name, > username and password) > [_] Log in automatically (that's a checkbox) > [_] Encrypt home directory > Computer name: [Not yet provided] (button to open dialog) > > [Quit] [Install] > > Default for language is determined by what they chose after entering the > CD. > Default for location can be determined by IP geolocation if they are set up > with local DHCP and have internet access. > Default for keyboard can be USA. > Default for partition can be determined based on whether another OS exists, > size of unallocated partitions and whether there are any completely empty > partitions. "Not yet provided" if the user needs to manually choose a > partition to erase. > No default for user details. > Default for log in automatically: Unchecked. > Default for encrypt home directory: Unchecked. > No default for computer name. > > The button text for user details could change to something like [Fred Smith > (fredsmith)] after the user has entered their info. > > This would make it faster to install as you can skip sections that already > have correct defaults. It also gives the user an immediate overview of what > needs to be configured. > > And the concept of having the installer automatically determine where you > are is completely awesome. If the service is hosted by Canonical it may give > a clue as to how many installations are being done. > > -Ryan > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Mohammed Bassit wrote: > >> On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 21:54 -0400, Derek Broughton wrote: >> > James Westby wrote: >> > >> > > On Mon Nov 30 13:47:34 -0500 2009 John Moser wrote: >> > >> List some not-silly reasons. >> > > >> > > You're serious? Ok. >> > > >> > > * Takes a long time to crack any password that's not in the >> dictionary >> > > and >> > > more than a few characters long. >> > > * Rainbow tables would be too large to fit on the CD. >> > >> > Actually, that's probably the best reason right there. >> > >> > -- >> > derek >> > >> > >> >> Can anyone tell me why nobody actually cares about what Conrad Knauer >> was talking about in the first place ? >> >> How in did a discussion about making the Ubuntu installer look >> simpler, become a debate about whether some password or network security >> mechanism (or whatever) is crackable or not ? >> >> Focus people, any real thoughts about simplifying the Installer ? >> >> For me the Ubuntu install process doesn't get any easier, but I have to >> agree that it still LOOKS (as in what you see, not what you actually >> get) a bit complicated. And I also agree that hiding some of the >> options, people usually don't change, can help. >> >> Any thoughts ? >> >> >> P.S: no rumble about cracking password or I'll send the tooth fairy to >> hunt you down :) >> >> >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify
Re: msql broken
Brian Murray wrote: > On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:46:14AM -0500, Adam Strawcutter wrote: >> Ok I am a noob..kind of. Been a geek all my life but took the next step >> to geek hood and got ubuntu. But I cannot fix msql server. I can't get >> rid of it, or anything. Its so annoying. I have tried all the apt-get -f >> and everything nothing works. Please help. here is the code that I am >> getting when I try and fix the bug. oh and I can't report the bug >> because ubuntu tells me that msql is not a ubuntu package. HELP!!! >> Thanks all. > > The package is actually mysql. Are you sure? Once upon a time I used msql... If that's what he is using, then it isn't under package control. -- derek -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: msql broken
On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 03:57:08PM -0400, Derek Broughton wrote: > Brian Murray wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:46:14AM -0500, Adam Strawcutter wrote: > >> Ok I am a noob..kind of. Been a geek all my life but took the next step > >> to geek hood and got ubuntu. But I cannot fix msql server. I can't get > >> rid of it, or anything. Its so annoying. I have tried all the apt-get -f > >> and everything nothing works. Please help. here is the code that I am > >> getting when I try and fix the bug. oh and I can't report the bug > >> because ubuntu tells me that msql is not a ubuntu package. HELP!!! > >> Thanks all. > > > > The package is actually mysql. > > Are you sure? Once upon a time I used msql... If that's what he is using, > then it isn't under package control. Well, I was going off the output they had included in their original e-mail. "Setting up mysql-server-5.0 (5.0.51a-3ubuntu5.4) ..."[1] [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-November/010134.html -- Brian Murray @ubuntu.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Install Wizard 'Looks Too Complicated'
In fact, the Ubuntu installer used to use an embedded GParted editing box. I much preferred that to the current setup. On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Shentino wrote: > One of my pet peeves with the installer is how long it takes to detect the > partitioning...and redetect it every...single...operation...so...slowly. > > My suggestion is that GParted be used to handle this. In fact I often use > that to do the partitioning BEFORE I do the installer because I don't want > to slog through it. > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:40 AM, John McCabe-Dansted wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Daniel Hollocher >> wrote: >> > password. Any sort of password automation would simplify the >> > situation for a few people at the expense of making it more >> > complicated for the rest of us. The level of encryption doesn't seem >> > to matter. >> >> OK. The issue where we want to migrate multiple users for whom the >> admin does not know the password may be better handled by the >> Migration Assistant. >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MigrationAssistant/Karmic >> >> -- >> John C. McCabe-Dansted >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss >> > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Here lies the responsiblity
> Canonical now has the responsibility, yes let me say that again, > "Canonical has a responsibility", to the entire Linux world, to be very > careful with what they put out. Now I have no problem with releasing > Karmic but please, for all the rest of us, including other distributions > and companies that have worked hard over many years to promote Linux, > MARK IT AS DEVELOPMENT. > > I completely agree. I would have upgraded to Karmic anyways no matter what it was labelled. But you know what, many people and most new people probably need the LTS. And you know what else, I have a hard time finding the LTS on Ubuntu.com. Should be a big sign for the LTS and a small link to Karmic for those of us who want it and have been following the countdown for months. Google provides email to companies for day-to-day business and these businesses pay them. Google has an excellent reputation and is highly respected in the industry. How do you think the business image of Google changed during the major email blackouts for practically an entire business day for the customers affected? This is still 99%+ uptime, but if your company had to put off thousands of dollars worth of business for a day or even half a day, it would have you a bit worried. Same thing with a distro perceived to be not as stable as competing OSes. -Joseph -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Here lies the responsiblity
I've just switched to gentoo and intend to stick with it. Getting burned by karmic had only a little bit to do with it. Not a slight against ubuntu, but dealing with gentoo has been a real eye opener to what the ubuntu devs probably go through, and I haven't even started tweaking or bugfixing yet ;). My opinion of ubuntu overall remains very high. Except for karmic Ubuntu has been making me very happy because it allowed me to stay away from windows. Apart from its infamy as a piece of swiss cheese, I'm on a shoestring budget and can't afford it anyway. And that is one of the many things I'm thankful for this year...all the hard work you devs do in giving us an OS that is pretty darn reliable considering it doesn't have a large budget behind it. Don't let Karmic get you down. It's still better than vista :D On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Joseph Miller wrote: > > Canonical now has the responsibility, yes let me say that again, >> "Canonical has a responsibility", to the entire Linux world, to be very >> careful with what they put out. Now I have no problem with releasing >> Karmic but please, for all the rest of us, including other distributions >> and companies that have worked hard over many years to promote Linux, >> MARK IT AS DEVELOPMENT. >> >> > I completely agree. I would have upgraded to Karmic anyways no matter what > it was labelled. But you know what, many people and most new people probably > need the LTS. And you know what else, I have a hard time finding the LTS on > Ubuntu.com. Should be a big sign for the LTS and a small link to Karmic for > those of us who want it and have been following the countdown for months. > > Google provides email to companies for day-to-day business and these > businesses pay them. Google has an excellent reputation and is highly > respected in the industry. How do you think the business image of Google > changed during the major email blackouts for practically an entire business > day for the customers affected? This is still 99%+ uptime, but if your > company had to put off thousands of dollars worth of business for a day or > even half a day, it would have you a bit worried. Same thing with a distro > perceived to be not as stable as competing OSes. > > -Joseph > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
