Re: Automatix Team-Ubuntu Developer Collaboration
Hi, On 08/10/2007, Jared B. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Many people have been asking us, members of the Automatix Team, for a long > time to collaborate with the Ubuntu Developers. We have decided that things > need to change. So starting with the Hardy development cycle, we hope to > start working with the Ubuntu Developers to improve both Ubuntu and > Automatix. I think this displays a positive attitude. > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Automatix/Ubuntu_Team_Collaboration The specification basically seems to be very similar to an existing one - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/common-customizations (which also includes an analysis of automatix and other scripts). That specification is marked as "Implemented" for the feisty release. As you probably know Ubuntu now includes a number of easier ways to install commonly requested programs. However, not all of the items discussed in the spec appear to be implemented. An example is the one you give in your spec, DVD playback. It's very important for you to identify specific programs which are still not well supported by Ubuntu, so that these can be considered in the same way as the common-customizations spec was done. Good luck! -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: regular fsck runs are too disturbing - and current approach does not work very well in detecting defects!
Jan Claeys wrote: > Ext2/ext3 suffer from fragmentation too, when available disk space gets > low enough. Yea that's why the defrag package was written. > But I think a similar API could be used to mark & move bad sectors or > "lost" sectors, and that's more related to this discussion... As I said, there is no need to make such an effort because ext rarely becomes fragmented enough to worry about. The fact that the defrag package has not really been maintained in 10 years shows that there is no strong need for an offline defrag, let alone an online one. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
kernel: Removing modules do not turn off devices
Hi! I am testing kubuntu gutsy (next 7.10). I noticed that removing usb wireless modules, for example, does not turn off the devices. This is important for laptops. Devices, when not in use, should be turned off. I think this is caused by kernel not being built with devices->USB support->USB selective suspend/resume and wakeup (USB_SUSPEND) enabled. Not sure however. Regards. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Synaptic X Bug
Hello everyone. I would just like to raise awareness of this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/68370 It's currently only marked as medium but should be critical. Basically if anyone using a Synaptics touchpad (any laptop user?) tries to switch user the touchpad is disabled. The only way to get the pad back is to switch to a VT and back to X where it drops you back in the original users session. If this wasn't bad enough FUSA is now installed by default in Gutsy. So if someone installs Gutsy on a laptop then tries to use FUSA it will leave them without a touchpad working, unless they guess to switch to a VT and back. IMO this should be a critical bug. Thanks. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Automatix Team-Ubuntu Developer Collaboration
I have updated the wiki page adding information on how to handle proprietary software, I will also add to it changes that need to be made to the ubuntu-restricted-extras package. There are still three things which need to be implemented or improved in Common Customizations. The first is improved multimedia support, for example dvd playback using totem-xine instead of gstreamer. The second is the installation of illegal software like libdvdcss and w32/w64codecs. Last is the installation of proprietary software, not only on i386 but on AMD64 as well. I will be attending UDS-Boston to further discuss how these three problems can be solved. On 10/8/07, Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > On 08/10/2007, Jared B. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Many people have been asking us, members of the Automatix Team, for a > long > > time to collaborate with the Ubuntu Developers. We have decided that > things > > need to change. So starting with the Hardy development cycle, we hope > to > > start working with the Ubuntu Developers to improve both Ubuntu and > > Automatix. > > I think this displays a positive attitude. > > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Automatix/Ubuntu_Team_Collaboration > > The specification basically seems to be very similar to an existing > one - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/common-customizations (which > also includes an analysis of automatix and other scripts). > > That specification is marked as "Implemented" for the feisty release. > As you probably know Ubuntu now includes a number of easier ways to > install commonly requested programs. However, not all of the items > discussed in the spec appear to be implemented. An example is the one > you give in your spec, DVD playback. > > It's very important for you to identify specific programs which are > still not well supported by Ubuntu, so that these can be considered in > the same way as the common-customizations spec was done. > > Good luck! > > -- > Matthew East > http://www.mdke.org > gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: kernel: Removing modules do not turn off devices
I think power management issues are important to take into account, it is getting a lot of attention recently. Is this option still marked as experimental? Is there a strict policy on it or can sufficient testing be done to allow it to be enabled by default? Here is the bug that was filed to track the process, some assistance needed on it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/150783 Maybe something to look into for Hardy at least? Todd On 10/8/07, Paulo da Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > I am testing kubuntu gutsy (next 7.10). > I noticed that removing usb wireless modules, for example, does not turn > off the devices. > This is important for laptops. Devices, when not in use, should be > turned off. > I think this is caused by kernel not being built with devices->USB > support->USB selective suspend/resume and wakeup (USB_SUSPEND) enabled. > Not sure however. > > Regards. > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
evince crash
Hi All, I think crashes are not a good sign, so I was hoping to raise some awareness of this problem. I am getting a crash trying to go to page 11 or 15 of: http://www.acm.org/acmqueue/digital/Queuevol5no6_September2007.pdf I was hoping that someone with access to an ACM account could try it to confirm. I filed a bug that contains the strace: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/150793 Thanks, Todd -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: evince crash
> I think crashes are not a good sign, so I was hoping to raise some > awareness of this problem. Quite a few people have been "raising awareness" about bugs that they have filed. I too have filed some seriously nasty bugs that make Gutsy close to unusable for me (mostly to do with compiz and the -intel driver being used by default). They are still sitting there without having been looked at and we are about a week from release. My point is simply this: the more people that "raise awareness" about bugs, the more people will look at what is being mentioned and think that their bugs are more important. This will mean that the list gets clogged with messages like this and people will unsubscribe from the list. If I want a list of high-priority bugs then I will search for them in Launchpad. There is a system in place already to triage and rate the importance of bugs. If that system is broken then we need to fix it. Trying to circumvent the system by posting to this list is not sustainable. Feel free to disagree. Regards, Aaron -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Launchpad bug statuses
Op zondag 07-10-2007 om 20:25 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Stefan Potyra: > hehe. Well I didn't say it was an easy taks to make bug statusses > self-explanatory, and I'm convinced that it's indeed a very tough one. Making (a link to) an explanation of those always *PLAINLY* visible in the UI might help a lot. Most people won't search wiki's & other sources every time to be able to get their bug fixed in the way that's the current fashion on launchpad or the project involved, but following a link is significantly less time-consuming (if its content is short enough). -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: evince crash
Hi All, On 10/8/07, Aaron Whitehouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think crashes are not a good sign, so I was hoping to raise some > > awareness of this problem. > > Quite a few people have been "raising awareness" about bugs that they > have filed. I too have filed some seriously nasty bugs that make Gutsy > close to unusable for me (mostly to do with compiz and the -intel > driver being used by default). They are still sitting there without > having been looked at and we are about a week from release. > > My point is simply this: the more people that "raise awareness" about > bugs, the more people will look at what is being mentioned and think > that their bugs are more important. This will mean that the list gets > clogged with messages like this and people will unsubscribe from the > list. If I want a list of high-priority bugs then I will search for > them in Launchpad. > > There is a system in place already to triage and rate the importance > of bugs. If that system is broken then we need to fix it. Trying to > circumvent the system by posting to this list is not sustainable. > > Feel free to disagree. > I have felt that the traffic on this list has been relatively light. Most threads are concerning discussion type issues. There have only been a few raised bugs. I have no problem resisting to send bugs, but I thought that this would be a list for discussion on such issues. clipped from: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss # Sharing of experiences with the current development branch of Ubuntu # Technical questions about new features in the development branch # Ideas and suggestions about future development of Ubuntu # Point of contact for Ubuntu users to reach Ubuntu developers # Open to all to subscribe, posting moderated for non-subscribers It seems to me that if users, developers and testers that are following this list care about a particular issue or bug they can raise it here. If it generates no discussion and others simply ignore, then it is probably not a big issue. I raised this one in particular only because I wanted to try to find others to test, since it was a special case requiring a ACM account. Also, the fact that the release is close, to me means that any major bugs should pass by more eyes and get more attention. To me it seems as though that is what an open source community is for. Like I said, if the consensus is not to raise such issues on this list, then I will refrain. Just let me know. Thanks, Todd > Regards, > > Aaron > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: regular fsck runs are too disturbing - and current approach does not work very well in detecting defects!
Op maandag 08-10-2007 om 13:16 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Phillip
Susi:
> Jan Claeys wrote:
> > But I think a similar API could be used to mark & move bad sectors or
> > "lost" sectors, and that's more related to this discussion...
>
> As I said, there is no need to make such an effort because ext rarely
> becomes fragmented enough to worry about. The fact that the defrag
> package has not really been maintained in 10 years shows that there is
> no strong need for an offline defrag, let alone an online one.
The main reason (IMO) why "defrag" is not useful (anymore) is that for
ages there hasn't been any (guaranteed) correlation between hardware
order and software order of sectors on a disk. Defragmenting disks
might actually fragment them more on a fysical level, and thus cause
slow-downs. And in some cases (fysically) fragmented sectors might be
faster to read/write than non-fragmented ones (I used a custom,
partially self-written, diskette formatting program to do exactly that
under MS-DOS!). So, any defrag program would require help from the hard
disk's firmware to be really efficient (and AFAIK no firmware supports
this).
But, what I was thinking about was similar atomic operations that allow
_other_ filesystem cleaning tasks to be done while a filesystem is in
use (r/w). ('fsck' might be an example.)
I understand these don't exist now, but they might be a good idea for
future filesystems or filesystem versions... :)
--
Jan Claeys
--
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Re: evince crash
> It seems to me that if users, developers and testers that are > following this list care about a particular issue or bug they can > raise it here. If it generates no discussion and others simply ignore, > then it is probably not a big issue. I see your point. The same rationale, however, would support sending a report of each new bug filed to the list. Everyone on the list *could* ignore anything that they weren't interested in. > Also, the fact that the release is close, to me means that any major > bugs should pass by more eyes and get more attention. Most people tend to see their bugs as major. I don't mean to lessen the frustration of your plight, but not being able to view a pdf on a password restricted site isn't the most major bug that I have seen filed against Gutsy. In some ways there is a problem with the way users can't rate the importance of their own bugs. I filed a bug about suspend locking up my laptop every time it is used and one about the default spellchecker for NZers being en_US instead of en_UK. Clearly one is more important than the other, but they have the same "importance" prior to being triaged. The counter-argument, I assume, is that normal people can't be trusted to objectively rate the importance of their bugs. I have grave issues with Gutsy... especially seeing as it is about a week from release. I have tested each milestone since pre-Breezy for the LaptopTesting reports and Gutsy is the least stable for me yet. That is largely, as I said earlier, a result of -Intel and Compiz. I filed my reports against each package and they are still sitting there untouched. So perhaps you are right that I should have pestered the list instead. I just don't see it as being a good policy. To be fair, I have now succeeded in generating more noise than the recent bug "awareness raising" has! Regards, Aaron -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
cn.archive.ubuntu.com severely outdated
Having noticed that the update manager of my Gutsy installation had not seen any updates for about one week, I changed the occurrences of cn.archive.ubuntu.com in sources.list to archive.ubuntu.com. After checking again, the Update Manager prompted that there are 406 updates. This means that cn.archive.ubuntu.com has been outdated for about one week. Is there any mechanism on the part of the ubuntu project to make sure the country level mirrors are updated timely? Wenzhuo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Appropriateness of posts to this list (Was Re: evince crash)
On 10/8/07, Aaron Whitehouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It seems to me that if users, developers and testers that are > > following this list care about a particular issue or bug they can > > raise it here. If it generates no discussion and others simply ignore, > > then it is probably not a big issue. > > I see your point. The same rationale, however, would support sending a > report of each new bug filed to the list. Everyone on the list *could* > ignore anything that they weren't interested in. > > > Also, the fact that the release is close, to me means that any major > > bugs should pass by more eyes and get more attention. > > Most people tend to see their bugs as major. I don't mean to lessen > the frustration of your plight, but not being able to view a pdf on a > password restricted site isn't the most major bug that I have seen > filed against Gutsy. In some ways there is a problem with the way > users can't rate the importance of their own bugs. I filed a bug about > suspend locking up my laptop every time it is used and one about the > default spellchecker for NZers being en_US instead of en_UK. Clearly > one is more important than the other, but they have the same > "importance" prior to being triaged. The counter-argument, I assume, > is that normal people can't be trusted to objectively rate the > importance of their bugs. > Agreed. But, in that light who is brave enough to raise any bugs or issues? There are a lot of issues that get discussed that don't interest me, but I just don't read into them as much. I do see your point, and it is a good one, the signal to noise raise needs to be high. So, I haven't raised other things I have found, since I didn't think they would be interesting to a general audience or they are seemingly obvious bugs that everyone should see. This one, being that it is an app that most people will use and may be hitting an edge case and it may just have a chance of being fixed before release. > I have grave issues with Gutsy... especially seeing as it is about a > week from release. I have tested each milestone since pre-Breezy for > the LaptopTesting reports and Gutsy is the least stable for me yet. > That is largely, as I said earlier, a result of -Intel and Compiz. I > filed my reports against each package and they are still sitting there > untouched. So perhaps you are right that I should have pestered the > list instead. I just don't see it as being a good policy. > I think your issues are probably more important for a list such as this. I know that there was requests at some point for experiences and feelings about compiz. > To be fair, I have now succeeded in generating more noise than the > recent bug "awareness raising" has! > This list has been pretty good about generating good content. Maybe I was too quick to fire of the evince crash email. I just wonder where the line should be? For example, some things should probably go to the users list, but would they get lost in the noise there? And coming close to a release was another reason. I still think this list has been quiet considering that. Regards, Todd > Regards, > > Aaron > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: cn.archive.ubuntu.com severely outdated
> cn.archive.ubuntu.com has been outdated for about one week. > Is there any mechanism on the part of the ubuntu project to make sure the > country level mirrors are updated timely? You can find the status of the archive mirrors here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors You should find your mirror cn.archive.ubuntu.com listed under Shanghai Linux User Group. Interestingly, that page says that it is a week behind, but if you click on the link and look for more detail, it says "unknown freshness". I don't know the reason for the discrepancy. Regards, Aaron -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Automatix Team-Ubuntu Developer Collaboration
Am Sonntag, den 07.10.2007, 19:41 -0500 schrieb Jared B.: > So starting with the Hardy development cycle, we hope to start working > with the Ubuntu Developers to improve both Ubuntu and Automatix. Thanks a lot for that initiative! I think it'd help to add each problem that Automatix addresses at the moment, also its shortcomings to the Wiki page as a 'meeting agenda'. Have a nice day, Daniel signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
