Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Duncan Austin]

2008/7/23 Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Read this article everyone. It is interesting.
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9419
> We do indeed need to step it up! But at least we have made more
> progress here latley!
>
>
I absolutely agree with the article, and Mark. A few weeks ago I posed a
question but got no reply, but I'll repeat it again in case it's relevant:

Hi All,

I have some thoughts, for what they're worth, about the direction and
concepts that Intrepid could take.

Firstly, if we're going to go orange then I think we should be careful about
going too orange. A theme should stay in the background and enhance the
focal point, ie the content. An overwhelming, or high contrast theme is a
distraction - no matter how pretty it is. Orange is not a background colour!
I think it should be the foreground colour - ie title text, titlebar buttons
- close, minimize etc. This would also make the orange more striking,
instead if drowning the user in it.

Ever listened to a beautiful Chopin? Where it ends with a note, a pause,
then solfly, the final note - perfection. This last note is what a theme
should feel like. This is what Apple consistantly get right.

Secondly, we seem to be thinking along the lines of "What does an Ibex look
like?" as a cue for the themes. Perhaps we should be thinking about "What is
it like to be an Ibex?".

I think Intrepid provides a great opportunity to break the mold and take
that last note from Apple! What does an Ibex see when it opens its eyes up
there in the mountains? What does it feel like to breathe that crisp, clean
mountain air? Or munch on that green grass or drink that clear, icy water?

Feel like perfection? I think so.

I've uploaded a screenshot of my current theme which is along these lines at
http://readitsideways.com/screenshot.jpg

This is based on the googol theme at gnome-look.org so the titlebar buttons
are googlish, but perhaps we could take a cue from the Ubuntu logo and also
use circles, but in the logo colours and make the circle thickness the same
as the logo's circle thickness?

If anyone else thinks that this is a direction worth persuing I'll do a mock
up, and then a theme.


Regards

Duncan
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Duncan Austin]

2008/7/24 Duncan Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
> 2008/7/23 Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> Read this article everyone. It is interesting.
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9419
>> We do indeed need to step it up! But at least we have made more
>> progress here latley!
>>
>>
> I absolutely agree with the article, and Mark. A few weeks ago I posed a
> question but got no reply, but I'll repeat it again in case it's relevant:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have some thoughts, for what they're worth, about the direction and
> concepts that Intrepid could take.
>
> Firstly, if we're going to go orange then I think we should be careful
> about going too orange. A theme should stay in the background and enhance
> the focal point, ie the content. An overwhelming, or high contrast theme is
> a distraction - no matter how pretty it is. Orange is not a background
> colour! I think it should be the foreground colour - ie title text, titlebar
> buttons - close, minimize etc. This would also make the orange more
> striking, instead if drowning the user in it.
>
> Ever listened to a beautiful Chopin? Where it ends with a note, a pause,
> then solfly, the final note - perfection. This last note is what a theme
> should feel like. This is what Apple consistantly get right.
>
> Secondly, we seem to be thinking along the lines of "What does an Ibex look
> like?" as a cue for the themes. Perhaps we should be thinking about "What is
> it like to be an Ibex?".
>
> I think Intrepid provides a great opportunity to break the mold and take
> that last note from Apple! What does an Ibex see when it opens its eyes up
> there in the mountains? What does it feel like to breathe that crisp, clean
> mountain air? Or munch on that green grass or drink that clear, icy water?
>
> Feel like perfection? I think so.
>
> I've uploaded a screenshot of my current theme which is along these lines
> at http://readitsideways.com/screenshot.jpg
>
> This is based on the googol theme at gnome-look.org so the titlebar
> buttons are googlish, but perhaps we could take a cue from the Ubuntu logo
> and also use circles, but in the logo colours and make the circle thickness
> the same as the logo's circle thickness?
>
> If anyone else thinks that this is a direction worth persuing I'll do a
> mock up, and then a theme.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duncan
>

also see:  
http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot.png
http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-1.png
http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-2.png

for some variations..

Duncan
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Duncan Austin]

>
>
>
> also see:  
> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot.png
> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-1.png
> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-2.png
>
> for some variations..
>

apologies, those links should have been:

http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot.png
http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-1.png
http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-2.png
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Cory K.]

Duncan Austin wrote:
> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot.png
> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-1.png
> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-2.png

These in no way say/feel "Ubuntu". It's a couple of cobbled together
pieces of things from GNOME-Look. We need something original.

-Cory. \m/


-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Duncan Austin wrote:
>> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot.png
>> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-1.png
>> http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-2.png
>
> These in no way say/feel "Ubuntu". It's a couple of cobbled together
> pieces of things from GNOME-Look. We need something original.
>
> -Cory. \m/
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>


I agree Cory. I have a final tomorrow, so let me get through this, and
I plan on devoting 100% of my time to getting this done. Kim and Ken
both have worked on themes, and both are good in some ways, but what
really is needed are some guidelines and one theme that everyone works
on at the same time.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>> I just received an email from
>> another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out.
>
> Get them on the ML. I *really* hope they work out. I know with Studio
> I've gone through about 20 people I "recruited". It always comes down to
> me and maybe 1 or 2 other cool people around our community. :(
>
> I'm my experience things got done best when the designers/artists worked
> directly with the person who has the final word. I really don't think
> Mark will get what he wants 'till he's on this list and involved.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

Mark made it clear to Ken and I what he wanted us to do - he wanted
guidelines to be made, by the community, that were within his certain
guidelines. They are well known- with Icons and the Theme, he just
wants us to retain our identity.
I do agree he should be even more clear, and more explanatory. But
that doesnt matter if we dont have the people.
Are you planning on creating a new theme for US for the 8/10 release?

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Like Mac but cooler, was the general idea, right? At least that's the
> story that made it to /.
> I'm sure Steve wouldn't be seen dead in a brown or orange skivy :-P
> (tongue in cheek).
>
> On 24/07/2008, at 10:52 PM, Cory K. wrote:
>
>> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>>> I just received an email from
>>> another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out.
>>
>> Get them on the ML. I *really* hope they work out. I know with Studio
>> I've gone through about 20 people I "recruited". It always comes
>> down to
>> me and maybe 1 or 2 other cool people around our community. :(
>>
>> I'm my experience things got done best when the designers/artists
>> worked
>> directly with the person who has the final word. I really don't think
>> Mark will get what he wants 'till he's on this list and involved.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-art mailing list
>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

Grrr... the gtk doesnt have to be brown or orange. It isnt currently.
Why cant it be white with orange/brown tooltips and highlights? That
with some orange/brown icons would be amazing, clean, and would be
Ubuntu, way more so than the current theme is.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>>>
 I just received an email from
 another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out.

>>> Get them on the ML. I *really* hope they work out. I know with Studio
>>> I've gone through about 20 people I "recruited". It always comes down to
>>> me and maybe 1 or 2 other cool people around our community. :(
>>>
>>> I'm my experience things got done best when the designers/artists worked
>>> directly with the person who has the final word. I really don't think
>>> Mark will get what he wants 'till he's on this list and involved.
>>>
>>> -Cory \m/
>>>
>>> --
>>> ubuntu-art mailing list
>>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Mark made it clear to Ken and I what he wanted us to do - he wanted
>> guidelines to be made, by the community, that were within his certain
>> guidelines.
>
> Which are where?
>
>> They are well known- with Icons and the Theme, he just
>> wants us to retain our identity.
>>
>
> Too vague. Though *I* can work with it you still run the rick of people
> doing alot work that that Mark doesn't like. That has been the history
> of Ubuntu art and is quite disheartening to alot of people.
>
>> I do agree he should be even more clear, and more explanatory. But
>> that doesnt matter if we dont have the people.
>>
>
> Clear guidelines can also get people on board IMO.
>
> In the end the only way this really gets done is a small group of
> talented people working with Ken that don't care about the wider
> communities opinions. Come up with a vision/guidelines and go for it.
>
>> Are you planning on creating a new theme for US for the 8/10 release?
>>
>
> Ubuntu Studio has a evolved theme for 8.10 in the works. Still very
> familiar. Still dark. ;)
>
> -Cory K.
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working on
creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done. i
almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
been working on looks great with the current icons. Mark wants in 2
years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X - So I
think we can create this theme, change the fonts, the work on icons
for the next release, while making improvements to theme in
preparation for the next LTS.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 09:06:57AM -0400 Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>
>> [..] but what
>> really is needed are some guidelines and one theme that everyone works
>> on at the same time.
>
> i sincerely doubt that will ever happen in this open design and
> development context. efforts are better spent by small groups working on
> unique projects in the hope they might become publically popular, let
> alone garner the attention of Mark et al.
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> julian oliver
> http://julianoliver.com
> http://selectparks.net
> messages containing HTML will not be read.
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

Well that is what Mark wanted, and I just received an email from
another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out. We have people, we
just need guidelines. If anyone wants to make a suggestion, please
post it on the wiki.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Cory K.]

Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working on
> creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done.

As do I.

> i
> almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
> been working on looks great with the current icons.

"retain our identity" Is no kind of direction and is exactly what we
have done in this art list up until now. We create some things that feel
like Ubuntu but who the hell knows if it will get used. We just create
without direction.

What sort of direction are you taking with the icons? An overarching
direction is needed. What should the new look feel like? Just making
some stuff and hoping it fits whit what ken does or Mark wants isn't the
way IMO. It's more of the same.

> Mark wants in 2
> years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X.

haahahhaha. Without real direction this will never happen.

> So I
> think we can create this theme

Based around?

> change the fonts


 To? And why? For the sake of change?
> the work on icons for the next release, while making improvements to theme in
> preparation for the next LTS.
>   

I think a *serious* critical eye needs to be taken with this all. With
plans and direction clearly approved by Mark from the start.


-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Cory K.]

Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>> 
>>> I just received an email from
>>> another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out.
>>>   
>> Get them on the ML. I *really* hope they work out. I know with Studio
>> I've gone through about 20 people I "recruited". It always comes down to
>> me and maybe 1 or 2 other cool people around our community. :(
>>
>> I'm my experience things got done best when the designers/artists worked
>> directly with the person who has the final word. I really don't think
>> Mark will get what he wants 'till he's on this list and involved.
>>
>> -Cory \m/
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-art mailing list
>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>>
>> 
>
> Mark made it clear to Ken and I what he wanted us to do - he wanted
> guidelines to be made, by the community, that were within his certain
> guidelines.

Which are where?

> They are well known- with Icons and the Theme, he just
> wants us to retain our identity.
>   

Too vague. Though *I* can work with it you still run the rick of people
doing alot work that that Mark doesn't like. That has been the history
of Ubuntu art and is quite disheartening to alot of people.

> I do agree he should be even more clear, and more explanatory. But
> that doesnt matter if we dont have the people.
>   

Clear guidelines can also get people on board IMO.

In the end the only way this really gets done is a small group of
talented people working with Ken that don't care about the wider
communities opinions. Come up with a vision/guidelines and go for it.

> Are you planning on creating a new theme for US for the 8/10 release?
>   

Ubuntu Studio has a evolved theme for 8.10 in the works. Still very
familiar. Still dark. ;)

-Cory K.

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Duncan Austin]

2008/7/24 Duncan Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
>>
>> Grrr... the gtk doesnt have to be brown or orange. It isnt currently.
>> Why cant it be white with orange/brown tooltips and highlights? That
>> with some orange/brown icons would be amazing, clean, and would be
>> Ubuntu, way more so than the current theme is.
>>
>
exactly.

but it's important to know where the parameters are. The reason I wrote
about my thoughts on the general direction is because I'm enthusiastic to
get involved with the look on Ubuntu, but I personally think the current
direction won't really work - just my opinion - and wanted to gauge whether
I should get involved or just potter around on my own at gnome-look.org.

>From the reaction so far it seems like my ideas on the direction aren't
compatible and that it's set on orange/brown/dark which is I think is a
mistake. Of course I may be wrong, but it dictates whether I get involved
here or do what I believe in on my own.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, just
trying to see if this is something I should get involved with

Duncan
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Kim Kahns]

Am 24.07.2008 15:48:28 schrieb(en) Salane Ashcraft:
> Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working 
> on
> creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done. i
> almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
> been working on looks great with the current icons. Mark wants in 2
> years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X - So I
> think we can create this theme, change the fonts, the work on icons
> for the next release, while making improvements to theme in
> preparation for the next LTS.
> 


Here is my opionion on the various topics:
1.
Ubuntu will never look as polished as OSX, at least not with GTK 2.0 
and brown/orange colors.
Brown is seen by many people as old and unaesthetic, and orange is a 
signal color.
2.
The person who writes a guideline should have real knowledge about 
gtk-theming, because you can't create a usefull guideline and mockups 
if you don't know the limitations (just look at all the mockups, they 
don't show new styles - they show completly new guis...).
3.
An Ibex is not good for a desktop-style. It's just a "code name", stop 
focussing on the animals.
4.
Packaging would be a good thing, but it's not necessary for creating a 
theme, only for shipping it.


--

Update of the Human 2 theme

- fixed gnome-volume-manager notebook bg-color (see screenshot)
- dark panel style
- rounded range sliders

Screenshot: http://kims-area.com/human2.png
The updated theme is attached.


~Kim Kahns (Kimmik)



Human 2.tar.gz
Description: application/compressed-tar
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Daniel Moore]

Like Mac but cooler, was the general idea, right? At least that's the  
story that made it to /.
I'm sure Steve wouldn't be seen dead in a brown or orange skivy :-P  
(tongue in cheek).

On 24/07/2008, at 10:52 PM, Cory K. wrote:

> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>> I just received an email from
>> another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out.
>
> Get them on the ML. I *really* hope they work out. I know with Studio
> I've gone through about 20 people I "recruited". It always comes  
> down to
> me and maybe 1 or 2 other cool people around our community. :(
>
> I'm my experience things got done best when the designers/artists  
> worked
> directly with the person who has the final word. I really don't think
> Mark will get what he wants 'till he's on this list and involved.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
> -- 
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art


-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Ken Vermette]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:48 AM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> >>>
>  I just received an email from
>  another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out.
> 
> >>> Get them on the ML. I *really* hope they work out. I know with Studio
> >>> I've gone through about 20 people I "recruited". It always comes down
> to
> >>> me and maybe 1 or 2 other cool people around our community. :(
> >>>
> >>> I'm my experience things got done best when the designers/artists
> worked
> >>> directly with the person who has the final word. I really don't think
> >>> Mark will get what he wants 'till he's on this list and involved.
> >>>
> >>> -Cory \m/
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ubuntu-art mailing list
> >>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Mark made it clear to Ken and I what he wanted us to do - he wanted
> >> guidelines to be made, by the community, that were within his certain
> >> guidelines.
> >
> > Which are where?
> >
> >> They are well known- with Icons and the Theme, he just
> >> wants us to retain our identity.
> >>
> >
> > Too vague. Though *I* can work with it you still run the rick of people
> > doing alot work that that Mark doesn't like. That has been the history
> > of Ubuntu art and is quite disheartening to alot of people.
> >
> >> I do agree he should be even more clear, and more explanatory. But
> >> that doesnt matter if we dont have the people.
> >>
> >
> > Clear guidelines can also get people on board IMO.
> >
> > In the end the only way this really gets done is a small group of
> > talented people working with Ken that don't care about the wider
> > communities opinions. Come up with a vision/guidelines and go for it.
> >
> >> Are you planning on creating a new theme for US for the 8/10 release?
> >>
> >
> > Ubuntu Studio has a evolved theme for 8.10 in the works. Still very
> > familiar. Still dark. ;)
> >
> > -Cory K.
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
>
> Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working on
> creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done. i
> almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
> been working on looks great with the current icons. Mark wants in 2
> years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X - So I
> think we can create this theme, change the fonts, the work on icons
> for the next release, while making improvements to theme in
> preparation for the next LTS.
>
> --
> Salane Ashcraft
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

2 years is doable.

What we really need to do, and again it's pounding the idea into the ground,
is create a set of guidelines and a strong focus of where we want to be in 2
years. Apple didn't just pick the OSX interface out of the ground yesterday,
if whatever we produce looks about as sharp as the cheetah interface I think
we'll be on good ground to build on our product. After looking at Kin
against Kims GTK work, I think silver is the way to go, but looking at OSX I
also beleive we might need something cleaner. Just like Apple, we also need
to keep in mind that technology will change, and we can build on that later
aswell.

One of the main things that I'm finding is stopping an Apple level of
polish, is that linux/ubuntu programs just don't follow the same standards
for interfaces. We can create an extremely polished interface, but side by
side the two wrong applications will still reflect badly. Be it a scrollbar
that's not positioned the same, or 2 completly different guidelines for
buttons (audacity, inkscape are huge examples) we should also consider
polish on the program level.

Throwing it out there as an example, the card games that are packaged with
gnome look like the windows 98 card games. What would bring a -deep- level
of polish, just on the level of these card games, would be to create a theme
for the game that blends in with our final GTK theme.

We aren't at that point yet, when we have our theme in cement will be when
were ready for it. When we have our interface standard, we will have the
luxury of slowing down instead creating entire new themes every release.
Without the extra overhead of building Emerald and GTK themes, the extra
time we get could go towards skinning chess, and going into the application
level of skinning.

That's what apple is on now. They stopped making new styles (brushed, for
example) and unified the themes. And now on individual applications they're
polishing. Time Machine is the perfect example, of where a utilitarian
program was made almost into 

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Kim Kahns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am 24.07.2008 15:48:28 schrieb(en) Salane Ashcraft:
>> Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working
>> on
>> creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done. i
>> almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
>> been working on looks great with the current icons. Mark wants in 2
>> years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X - So I
>> think we can create this theme, change the fonts, the work on icons
>> for the next release, while making improvements to theme in
>> preparation for the next LTS.
>>
>
>
> Here is my opionion on the various topics:
> 1.
> Ubuntu will never look as polished as OSX, at least not with GTK 2.0
> and brown/orange colors.

I have seen very good Gtk themes, but you are right- orange/brown will
not do it.

> 2.
> The person who writes a guideline should have real knowledge about
> gtk-theming, because you can't create a usefull guideline and mockups
> if you don't know the limitations (just look at all the mockups, they
> don't show new styles - they show completly new guis...).
> 3.
> An Ibex is not good for a desktop-style. It's just a "code name", stop
> focussing on the animals.
> 4.
> Packaging would be a good thing, but it's not necessary for creating a
> theme, only for shipping it.
>
>
> --
>
> Update of the Human 2 theme
>
> - fixed gnome-volume-manager notebook bg-color (see screenshot)
> - dark panel style
> - rounded range sliders
>
> Screenshot: http://kims-area.com/human2.png
> The updated theme is attached.
>
>
> ~Kim Kahns (Kimmik)
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>



-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Who]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Matthew Nuzum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> We do indeed need to step it up! But at least we have made more
>> progress here latley!
>
> I'd love to see a .deb file I can install to get the new themes. So
> far I've seen some tarballs floating around that I have no clue how to
> use.
>
> I'll say there's progress when there's something I can install.
> Better yet, setup a PPA so that I can get updates for the theme as it
> changes.
>
> As my boss said to me yesterday, "Until I can click the button to [see
> it do something] we've got nothing."
>
> Whoever is managing the various theme projects should recruit a
> packager who will take ownership of that aspect for the theme you
> manage.

Another reason you're spot on here is that there's no way we can
expect a tarball with a theme to make it into a release.

We need packaging to be there from the start, so it comes naturally to
us, so we don't rush at the end. (By us, I think I mean the people
that are actually doing the cool work, not claiming to be one of them
:P)

A while ago we talked about 'PackagingSchool' happening some time on
IRC - everyone sits down, someone takes a 'lesson' and kerblamo, we
have 5 more artists able to do packaging too. I can't run such a
thing, but I'd try and attend, for sure!

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Duncan Austin]

2008/7/24 Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Duncan Austin wrote:
> > http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot.png
> > http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-1.png
> > http://readitsideways.com/Screenshot-2.png
>
> These in no way say/feel "Ubuntu". It's a couple of cobbled together
> pieces of things from GNOME-Look. We need something original.
>
> -Cory. \m/
>
>
I wasn't suggesting that these should be the theme, but as an example of
crisp and clean (see my comments on the general direction). I was suggesting
a rethink of the concept.

Duncan
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

Art Team-

So I think we see the need for guidelines, restrictions, and the like.
Mark has not given the sort of input Cory noted we need to be
successful. We have the wiki page that has guidelines, but it is
rather informal. We need something like this:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html

Gnome also has one:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/

Still, this doesnt really guide colors, shadows, gradients,
placements, and the like.

When Mark means we need to retain our identity, he wants just that- he
said how we did that was up to us.

To answer the question about fonts: Do you not see the need? The
current font is huge, uneasy on the eyes, and looks incredibly
outdated. It needs to be replaced, even if only for aesthetic reasons.

Salane

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Cory K.]

Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> I just received an email from
> another Gtk programmer who I recruited to help out.

Get them on the ML. I *really* hope they work out. I know with Studio
I've gone through about 20 people I "recruited". It always comes down to
me and maybe 1 or 2 other cool people around our community. :(

I'm my experience things got done best when the designers/artists worked
directly with the person who has the final word. I really don't think
Mark will get what he wants 'till he's on this list and involved.

-Cory \m/

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] GTK-theme proposal

[AA Boy]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Kim Kahns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Am 23.07.2008 14:41:45 schrieb(en) Salane Ashcraft:
> > Another question- anyway you can get the metacity to blend in with
> > the
> > GTK? Sort of like OS X?
>
> I will make a metacity port of the emerald theme (of course without the
> transparancy etc.).
>
> Kim:
You may be interested to know I already have one like this based off of
Blended. It is available here
.

Smartboy
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 04:57:39PM +0200 Kim Kahns wrote: 
> Am 24.07.2008 15:48:28 schrieb(en) Salane Ashcraft:
> > Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working 
> > on
> > creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done. i
> > almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
> > been working on looks great with the current icons. Mark wants in 2
> > years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X - So I
> > think we can create this theme, change the fonts, the work on icons
> > for the next release, while making improvements to theme in
> > preparation for the next LTS.
> > 
> 
> 
> Here is my opionion on the various topics:
> 1.
> Ubuntu will never look as polished as OSX, at least not with GTK 2.0 
> and brown/orange colors.
> Brown is seen by many people as old and unaesthetic, and orange is a 
> signal color.

when teaching with Ubuntu i make the point of asking students every once
in a while, who likes the look of Ubuntu and who doesn't? 

what i find firstly interesting is it is the brown of the theme that is
the most distinctive for them, rather than any other feature of the
Ubuntu desktop as it appears. in this sense Mark was certainly right:
the choice to use brown has made Ubuntu nothing short of distinctive.

where his theory for a brown desktop fails however is by very virtue of
the fact it generates such polarity of opinion. there are those of my
students that certainly /love/ the brown there are also those that
'distinctly' and very vocally don't like it, talking to excess about its
offences on their eyes.

to these ends the Human colour theory has failed: it would be far better
to have a theme where the colour doesn't produce such diametric
opinions. colour - i believe - should have far less prevalence in what
makes the Ubuntu desktop distinctive, let alone a success. 

put simply, colour should be used primarily to the ends of improving
usability in a desktop, not merely to make it 'distinct' (an empty and
vain project when taken on its own..). the desperate and abstract
attachment to brown is really starting to show it's age. this is
something people other than those of us on this list are perfectly
willing to admit..

we, the designers and/or art testers, haven't yet proven that brown was
any more than than as a thinly veiled attempt to be distinct within a
world of blue and brushed-metal desktops.

cheers,

-- 
julian oliver
http://julianoliver.com
http://selectparks.net
messages containing HTML will not be read.

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

[ubuntu-art] Public/official aims of this team

[Who]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 09:06:57AM -0400 Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>
>> [..] but what
>> really is needed are some guidelines and one theme that everyone works
>> on at the same time.
>
> i sincerely doubt that will ever happen in this open design and
> development context. efforts are better spent by small groups working on
> unique projects in the hope they might become publically popular, let
> alone garner the attention of Mark et al.
>

Wahey! I really agree...

Is anyone in support of putting this on the Art-Team wiki and LP as
the main aim of the team?

So often we get people joining with the idea that we're all going to
work together to change the default look - and so often after releases
we all agree that probably isn't the way to go. So... lets just come
out and say that.

I was thinking of something like:

"Ubuntu-artwork is a team of people who are interested in making
additional themes for Ubuntu. If you've got an idea for a new look
that could ship alongside the default, or want to work towards
something that you think might one day challenge for the default spot,
then jump in, the water's great. We tend to work in small groups on
themes, so alongside people with a strong vision who can lead a team
we need plenty of others that can work together to help get a great
complete, cohesive look. This involves designers, packagers, GTK+
themeing experts (hey, even QT theme experts are welcome :P) and we
could certainly do with a few more hackers. If you're any of those
things, or think you want to be soon, then you should be at home in
this team.


Oh, and we'd really like you to have a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style - we much prefer anyone to
avoid top posting wherever possible on this list. Along with the
reasons at wikipedia, it upsets the aesthetic, and, well, we're an
aesthetic-loving kinda group ;)"

I feel this, or something like it would fit nicely on

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
or
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved

and on
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art

Thoughts on that?

Who

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 09:06:57AM -0400 Salane Ashcraft wrote: 

> [..] but what
> really is needed are some guidelines and one theme that everyone works
> on at the same time.

i sincerely doubt that will ever happen in this open design and
development context. efforts are better spent by small groups working on
unique projects in the hope they might become publically popular, let
alone garner the attention of Mark et al.

cheers,

-- 
julian oliver
http://julianoliver.com
http://selectparks.net
messages containing HTML will not be read.

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Public/official aims of this team

[Bharat Varma]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > ..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 09:06:57AM -0400 Salane Ashcraft
> wrote:
> >
> >> [..] but what
> >> really is needed are some guidelines and one theme that everyone works
> >> on at the same time.
> >
> > i sincerely doubt that will ever happen in this open design and
> > development context. efforts are better spent by small groups working on
> > unique projects in the hope they might become publically popular, let
> > alone garner the attention of Mark et al.
> >
>
> Wahey! I really agree...
>
> Is anyone in support of putting this on the Art-Team wiki and LP as
> the main aim of the team?
>
> So often we get people joining with the idea that we're all going to
> work together to change the default look - and so often after releases
> we all agree that probably isn't the way to go. So... lets just come
> out and say that.
>
> I was thinking of something like:
>
> "Ubuntu-artwork is a team of people who are interested in making
> additional themes for Ubuntu. If you've got an idea for a new look
> that could ship alongside the default, or want to work towards
> something that you think might one day challenge for the default spot,
> then jump in, the water's great. We tend to work in small groups on
> themes, so alongside people with a strong vision who can lead a team
> we need plenty of others that can work together to help get a great
> complete, cohesive look. This involves designers, packagers, GTK+
> themeing experts (hey, even QT theme experts are welcome :P) and we
> could certainly do with a few more hackers. If you're any of those
> things, or think you want to be soon, then you should be at home in
> this team.


We can never get consensus in an open group like this with multiple teams
working on different themes. What I think might work is this -

Give a deadline to anyone and everyone in this group to create a mockup,
which is technologically possible *today* (for example, themes based off
murrine RGBA svn don't count). A working sample also will do obviously,
instead of a mockup.

Everyone who cares votes on it. The group / individual who owns the mockup
will be responsible for it and we trust every other participant / member of
this forum to actively help with that theme only for Ibex, even if they hvae
their own ideas. We run it past kenneth wimer - assuming we don't pick
kenneth's theme - aim to make the theme with the popular vote as the default
for Ibex. If other participants wish to have their own theme, they do it in
their own time and we try to ship them with ubuntu, but not as default. Or
alternately, they will be available as ubuntu extras in a repo. But we
expect them to support the default theme. We need this team effort to make
it to Ibex.

Note that the voting shouldn't be on the theme itself, but the direction.
For example, in my mind, a theme based off murrine would get preferential
treatment from me because of the upcoming RGBA release later this year. The
direction is important to be able to sustain for atleast 2 more LTS
releases.

Everyone is doing a great job - Ken Vermette, KIm, the New Wave theme guys
etc., but we need to vote on one direction. The sooner we do this, the
better. Once we have a direction decided, we will have reasonable clues for
everything else - icons, wallpapers etc. And once we decide the direction,
we know the engine we use and therefore can request help from the engine
authors in case the primary developers are stuck with something.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

-- 
d-_-b
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Isaiah Heyer]

On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 09:59 -0400, Cory K. wrote:
> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> > Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working on
> > creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done.
> 
> As do I.
> 
> > i
> > almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
> > been working on looks great with the current icons.
> 
> "retain our identity" Is no kind of direction and is exactly what we
> have done in this art list up until now. We create some things that feel
> like Ubuntu but who the hell knows if it will get used. We just create
> without direction.
> 
> What sort of direction are you taking with the icons? An overarching
> direction is needed. What should the new look feel like? Just making
> some stuff and hoping it fits whit what ken does or Mark wants isn't the
> way IMO. It's more of the same.
> 
> > Mark wants in 2
> > years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X.
> 
> haahahhaha. Without real direction this will never happen.
> 
> > So I
> > think we can create this theme
> 
> Based around?
> 
> > change the fonts
> 
> 
>  To? And why? For the sake of change?
> > the work on icons for the next release, while making improvements to theme 
> > in
> > preparation for the next LTS.
> >   
> 
> I think a *serious* critical eye needs to be taken with this all. With
> plans and direction clearly approved by Mark from the start.
> 
> 
> 
I wish Mark would just make a forum where one could post one theme/idea
per thread and he would say whether he liked it or not.Right now he 
is being to vague.

Also does the window titlebar have to be orange/brown?Wouldn't orange
icons and wallpaper be enough to keep it original?

Just my 2 cents.

IH


-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Public/official aims of this team

[Who]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Bharat Varma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> > ..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 09:06:57AM -0400 Salane Ashcraft
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> I was thinking of something like:
>>

Snip description of the team as "we don't design the default theme, we
are a group of people designing extra themes that one day might
challenge the default"

>
> We can never get consensus in an open group like this with multiple teams
> working on different themes.

Indeed, but I question whether we need a consensus! This team does not
design the default theme for a whole host of very well discussed
historical reasons. We are only wasting peoples' time if we pretend we
are.

> What I think might work is this -
>

Snip vote for direction model.

>
> Everyone is doing a great job - Ken Vermette, KIm, the New Wave theme guys
> etc., but we need to vote on one direction. The sooner we do this, the
> better. Once we have a direction decided, we will have reasonable clues for
> everything else - icons, wallpapers etc. And once we decide the direction,
> we know the engine we use and therefore can request help from the engine
> authors in case the primary developers are stuck with something.
>

I really don't think one direction is the best plan for us as a team -
hence my suggestion that our focus be moved _officially_ away from
this. Because new members keep joining who haven't been through the
whole process we have to keep establishing every release that Ken does
the default theme with the assistance of the team _because he is the
best person to do it_ for a whole load of reasons including the fact
that he is employed by Mark and so has a good chance of making things
that he likes.

Who

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Who]

> I wish Mark would just make a forum where one could post one theme/idea
> per thread and he would say whether he liked it or not.Right now he
> is being to vague.

He's an enormously busy man! And that would still leave a gazillion
similar brown themes that mark 'liked' that people were working on!

Ken, correct me if I'm off the mark, but as I understand it, Mark
employs Ken to do the theme work and Ken liaises with us :)

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I wish Mark would just make a forum where one could post one theme/idea
>> per thread and he would say whether he liked it or not.Right now he
>> is being to vague.
>
> He's an enormously busy man! And that would still leave a gazillion
> similar brown themes that mark 'liked' that people were working on!
>
> Ken, correct me if I'm off the mark, but as I understand it, Mark
> employs Ken to do the theme work and Ken liaises with us :)
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

Ken is employed to direct an Art Team that has never had many
experienced people.
Mark said it was up to the art team- therefore Ken- then he would approve it.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Who]

> Ken is employed to direct an Art Team that has never had many
> experienced people.

Over the years some of the most experienced FLOSS theme designers have
been on this list - what makes you think there's never been many
experienced people? I certainly do not include myself in this
category, but I do know that there have been and still are (!) some
really talented people around.

> Mark said it was up to the art team- therefore Ken- then he would approve it.

Did he, I wasn't aware of this? Can you find a reference? I'd like to
read exactly what he said, because I think that would represent a
change in direction on Mark's part and I'd like to know more about it.

We had a really long talk about all this a little while ago, perhaps
before you joined the list?

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-April/thread.html#5758

You could just read first and last few posts about theme sub teams to
get a summary (thanks to the lovely habbit of bottom-posting :P)


> --
> Salane Ashcraft
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[michael miller]

I am new to this whole mailing list concept so if I break any rules of
etiquette, feel free to let me know. I have only included the part of the
message that I plan to respond to.

I personally agree. Ubuntu is stable and it works, and its time to make it
look pretty. The current human theme doesn't look bad, but if you ask me,
its just two darned (am I allowed to swear here), out dated. Its something
that was good looking by 1990s standards, but now days, it fails to live up
to the standards set by OSX and even Vista. The gnome desktop is currently
very no-frills and basic.

Unfortunately, even though some of us may find eye candy annoying, the fact
is, most end users don't. Therefore, if we are going to replace the human
theme, we need to make it something that will rock the worlds sucks off.
This means, the new theme should be polished, shiny, easy to use, and
enjoyable to look at. As a general rule of thumb, for panels and menus,
solid colors are out, gradients and partial transparency is in. Rounded
edges should be used whenever possible, lighter colors should also be used.

One good piece of incentive to follow through with the above proposal is
that its a lot easier to get people to use a desktop environment that looks
pretty than it is to get them to use one that looks like it belongs in the
Smithsonian. Therefore, if we polish up the UI, you can expect that more
people will feel inclined to try ubuntu and just possiblty make the outright
switch.

In the end, its who ever is incharge that gets to decide what happens in the
future, but I strongly implore that person to please consider what I have
said. Its clear based on Duncan Austins post that I am not the only one who
harbours these sentiments.

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Duncan Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> Ever listened to a beautiful Chopin? Where it ends with a note, a pause,
> then solfly, the final note - perfection. This last note is what a theme
> should feel like. This is what Apple consistantly get right.
>
> Secondly, we seem to be thinking along the lines of "What does an Ibex look
> like?" as a cue for the themes. Perhaps we should be thinking about "What is
> it like to be an Ibex?".
>
> I think Intrepid provides a great opportunity to break the mold and take
> that last note from Apple! What does an Ibex see when it opens its eyes up
> there in the mountains? What does it feel like to breathe that crisp, clean
> mountain air? Or munch on that green grass or drink that clear, icy water?
>
> Feel like perfection? I think so.
>
> I've uploaded a screenshot of my current theme which is along these lines
> at http://readitsideways.com/screenshot.jpg
>
> This is based on the googol theme at gnome-look.org so the titlebar
> buttons are googlish, but perhaps we could take a cue from the Ubuntu logo
> and also use circles, but in the logo colours and make the circle thickness
> the same as the logo's circle thickness?
>
> If anyone else thinks that this is a direction worth persuing I'll do a
> mock up, and then a theme.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duncan
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Ken is employed to direct an Art Team that has never had many
>> experienced people.
>
> Over the years some of the most experienced FLOSS theme designers have
> been on this list - what makes you think there's never been many
> experienced people? I certainly do not include myself in this
> category, but I do know that there have been and still are (!) some
> really talented people around.
>
>> Mark said it was up to the art team- therefore Ken- then he would approve it.
>
> Did he, I wasn't aware of this? Can you find a reference? I'd like to
> read exactly what he said, because I think that would represent a
> change in direction on Mark's part and I'd like to know more about it.
>
> We had a really long talk about all this a little while ago, perhaps
> before you joined the list?
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-April/thread.html#5758
>
> You could just read first and last few posts about theme sub teams to
> get a summary (thanks to the lovely habbit of bottom-posting :P)
>
>
>> --
>> Salane Ashcraft
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-art mailing list
>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>


http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Ashton]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

put simply, colour should be used primarily to the ends of improving
> usability in a desktop, not merely to make it 'distinct' (an empty and
> vain project when taken on its own..). the desperate and abstract
> attachment to brown is really starting to show it's age. this is
> something people other than those of us on this list are perfectly
> willing to admit..


I haven't seen one color substitute that solves the problem. People try to
use orange, and then the entire system becomes orange. There is no subtlety.
No color *use,* just color replacements. I don't want a wallpaper that is
completely brown, but I can use a wallpaper that has some brown in it.

I myself like the red color in the Ubuntu logo, but that doesn't mean I want
to see the entire desktop done in that red. I think something nice could be
made by pulling and focusing on any one color in to some design. Even brown
or orange. I just haven't seen it yet. It has been more like buckets of
color combined with a paint roller to change a room, instead of using a fine
brush to create a few  elements on a canvas. It isn't
like the color brown is avoided by all designers in the world. There are
plenty of references out there to find.

we, the designers and/or art testers, haven't yet proven that brown was
> any more than than as a thinly veiled attempt to be distinct within a
> world of blue and brushed-metal desktops.


I always saw that as the challenge. Maybe it is too big of a challenge for a
community maintained design project, but I'm sure it could be done.

I think Cory's comment regarding individual teams could be explored in a
more structured manner. Since there is no official team, and the guidelines
come off as loosely orientated as the mock ups, then why not have a wiki
that reflects this? Instead of (to borrow a term) design-by-amoeba, let
like-minded people clump together in pockets, define their own guidelines,
and then show what they've got. There are obviously people who like Kith,
orange, the lack of animals, etc...they should get together under one wiki
heading and do it, without trying to get approval from the entire community.
Because that will never happen. It would be more like, "Here is our team,
here are our guidelines. We are trying to achieve THIS look and feel. We
hate brown and avoid using it. We hope you like our show." Just OWN it. If
it flies, it flies. The ml wastes its time arguing about things like colors
vs colors.

Well well well. While writing this I have seen Who's response and link to
Cory's past convo about sub-teams. This is exactly what I am getting at. It
seems no ideas are original, eh?

I realize nothing prevents people from forming their own teams, but if it
were encouraged and there were visible splits at the wiki instead of a
hodge-podge of everyone's work all sprinkled here and there, ultimately
hoping to be grabbed by one person who may or may not pass it on to another
Mark...well you see where I'm going.

Regardless, I am more inclined to listen to the observations of people like
Cory, Who, etc... who have been around the block so to speak, and have
survived through years of watching how things have gone down.

Salane, you were in a chat with Mark, came back to the list like gangbusters
and tried to get things organized. It is a valiant effort but I think it
starts from too broad a perspective. That energy would be better spent
working with a team of people who agree with your general take on The State
of Things. In addition, the experience just isn't there (with the history of
the art team at Ubuntu) and I, also a new-comer, sense a lot of eye-rolling.
Well, hey. I'll just speak for myself: My eyes roll a lot.


Ashton
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> put simply, colour should be used primarily to the ends of improving
>> usability in a desktop, not merely to make it 'distinct' (an empty and
>> vain project when taken on its own..). the desperate and abstract
>> attachment to brown is really starting to show it's age. this is
>> something people other than those of us on this list are perfectly
>> willing to admit..
>
> I haven't seen one color substitute that solves the problem. People try to
> use orange, and then the entire system becomes orange. There is no subtlety.
> No color use, just color replacements. I don't want a wallpaper that is
> completely brown, but I can use a wallpaper that has some brown in it.
>
> I myself like the red color in the Ubuntu logo, but that doesn't mean I want
> to see the entire desktop done in that red. I think something nice could be
> made by pulling and focusing on any one color in to some design. Even brown
> or orange. I just haven't seen it yet. It has been more like buckets of
> color combined with a paint roller to change a room, instead of using a fine
> brush to create a few  elements on a canvas. It isn't
> like the color brown is avoided by all designers in the world. There are
> plenty of references out there to find.
>
>> we, the designers and/or art testers, haven't yet proven that brown was
>> any more than than as a thinly veiled attempt to be distinct within a
>> world of blue and brushed-metal desktops.
>
> I always saw that as the challenge. Maybe it is too big of a challenge for a
> community maintained design project, but I'm sure it could be done.
>
> I think Cory's comment regarding individual teams could be explored in a
> more structured manner. Since there is no official team, and the guidelines
> come off as loosely orientated as the mock ups, then why not have a wiki
> that reflects this? Instead of (to borrow a term) design-by-amoeba, let
> like-minded people clump together in pockets, define their own guidelines,
> and then show what they've got. There are obviously people who like Kith,
> orange, the lack of animals, etc...they should get together under one wiki
> heading and do it, without trying to get approval from the entire community.
> Because that will never happen. It would be more like, "Here is our team,
> here are our guidelines. We are trying to achieve THIS look and feel. We
> hate brown and avoid using it. We hope you like our show." Just OWN it. If
> it flies, it flies. The ml wastes its time arguing about things like colors
> vs colors.
>
> Well well well. While writing this I have seen Who's response and link to
> Cory's past convo about sub-teams. This is exactly what I am getting at. It
> seems no ideas are original, eh?
>
> I realize nothing prevents people from forming their own teams, but if it
> were encouraged and there were visible splits at the wiki instead of a
> hodge-podge of everyone's work all sprinkled here and there, ultimately
> hoping to be grabbed by one person who may or may not pass it on to another
> Mark...well you see where I'm going.
>
> Regardless, I am more inclined to listen to the observations of people like
> Cory, Who, etc... who have been around the block so to speak, and have
> survived through years of watching how things have gone down.
>
> Salane, you were in a chat with Mark, came back to the list like gangbusters
> and tried to get things organized. It is a valiant effort but I think it
> starts from too broad a perspective. That energy would be better spent
> working with a team of people who agree with your general take on The State
> of Things. In addition, the experience just isn't there (with the history of
> the art team at Ubuntu) and I, also a new-comer, sense a lot of eye-rolling.
> Well, hey. I'll just speak for myself: My eyes roll a lot.
>
>
> Ashton
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>

Yeah I have done so. I have put together a few people to work on a
theme. Starting this weekend I want to begin in force. We will take in
everything from all perspectives and hopefully deliver an awesome
theme.

I really dont care how long people have been here so much; it seems
like this Art Team is incredibly unorganized and has never done
anything to the point of redesigning everything. Our icons were
boughtl the font comes from upstream; and the theme is lackluster.

I hope no one is offended.


-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Who]

>
> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt
>

Cool! Nice work there. Lets hope it works well :) I clearly haven't
been paying enough attention on the list! How'd you end up at CC?

Have you spoken to Frank Schoep? I think he'd be a really good person
to talk to about this - as he managed (very well!) a similar process a
few years back - I think he'd have some useful advice! Maybe meet him
in IRC?

Troy Sobotka probably also has some useful tips, as he's worked on
similar initiatives too...

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt
>>
>
> Cool! Nice work there. Lets hope it works well :) I clearly haven't
> been paying enough attention on the list! How'd you end up at CC?
>
> Have you spoken to Frank Schoep? I think he'd be a really good person
> to talk to about this - as he managed (very well!) a similar process a
> few years back - I think he'd have some useful advice! Maybe meet him
> in IRC?
>
> Troy Sobotka probably also has some useful tips, as he's worked on
> similar initiatives too...
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

Lol I just showed up.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Ashton]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:


> Yeah I have done so. I have put together a few people to work on a
> theme. Starting this weekend I want to begin in force. We will take in
> everything from all perspectives and hopefully deliver an awesome
> theme.


I hope "all perspectives" would mean perspective from within your group of
people. That is more what I was getting at.


> I really dont care how long people have been here so much;


It shows. And that's fine. But this would be something to convey privately
to the people within your group, for example. Instead of conveying it to an
entire list of fine people who have worked hard in the past. Even when
appended with an disclaimer.


Ashton
-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah I have done so. I have put together a few people to work on a
>> theme. Starting this weekend I want to begin in force. We will take in
>> everything from all perspectives and hopefully deliver an awesome
>> theme.
>
> I hope "all perspectives" would mean perspective from within your group of
> people. That is more what I was getting at.
>
>>
>> I really dont care how long people have been here so much;
>
> It shows. And that's fine. But this would be something to convey privately
> to the people within your group, for example. Instead of conveying it to an
> entire list of fine people who have worked hard in the past. Even when
> appended with an disclaimer.
>
>
> Ashton
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>

Its just I hear stuff from people who have been here long, but what
have they done? Ken himself has said the art team needs to prove
itself to be trusted with anything substantial.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Cory K.]

Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> Its just I hear stuff from people who have been here long, but what
> have they done? Ken himself has said the art team needs to prove
> itself to be trusted with anything substantial.

Thats not really the point of the "You haven't been here long." comment.
It's that there's a whole history of issues that have plagued the art
team. All usually centering around the lack of real direction and being
subject to Mark's misunderstanding of art and design.

There are many talented people pn this list that can more than make
Ubuntu rock. They are mostly just waiting to see solid change from Mark
and Canonical. Actually, most AFAIK aren't waiting. They are done and
over it. So what we're kinda left with now are people like you that have
enthusiasm but no real experience.  Or, we have people with no artistic
ability and w really shouldn't be afraid to tell them that.

It's a much more complex issue than you know.

So I still give a big +1 for the "sub-team" idea. I hope you work on
your own vision of a theme, and not default. Best to hope for is that
pieces get picked for default.

-Cory


-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

[ubuntu-art] Getting something done

[Matthew Nuzum]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Its just I hear stuff from people who have been here long, but what
> have they done? Ken himself has said the art team needs to prove
> itself to be trusted with anything substantial.

In order for this team to have a success this time around, one person
needs to take ownership of a project (a theme) and ensure that
whatever needs to be done in order to get it complete and installable
gets done.

There are very few people who can create all of the graphical elements
of a theme AND package it AND get it ready for distribution. But
that's ok because one person doesn't need to *do* all of that. They
just need to be tenacious enough to get it done, asking for help where
necessary. As a matter of fact, the right person may not be able to do
any of the tasks other than being able to get something done.

It is a challenge but people on this list have accomplished it. For
example, "Who" has been very active on the list lately and he is one
of the people who achieved this goal a few releases ago. And he didn't
even have PPAs available for his project! As a matter of fact, you can
benefit from his hard work by starting with the bluebuntu source
package and using it as the base for your own theme. If in doubt, ask
for help either here or the MOTUs.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>> Its just I hear stuff from people who have been here long, but what
>> have they done? Ken himself has said the art team needs to prove
>> itself to be trusted with anything substantial.
>
> Thats not really the point of the "You haven't been here long." comment.
> It's that there's a whole history of issues that have plagued the art
> team. All usually centering around the lack of real direction and being
> subject to Mark's misunderstanding of art and design.
>
> There are many talented people pn this list that can more than make
> Ubuntu rock. They are mostly just waiting to see solid change from Mark
> and Canonical. Actually, most AFAIK aren't waiting. They are done and
> over it. So what we're kinda left with now are people like you that have
> enthusiasm but no real experience.  Or, we have people with no artistic
> ability and w really shouldn't be afraid to tell them that.
>
> It's a much more complex issue than you know.
>
> So I still give a big +1 for the "sub-team" idea. I hope you work on
> your own vision of a theme, and not default. Best to hope for is that
> pieces get picked for default.
>
> -Cory
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

People with no experience that are helping are just as good as people
with it that are not.
Also what doesnt help is no support from those in charge.

Also- I know the issue. I have had many conversations with several
people who have been involved or are still involved. No one else is
trying for anything really.






-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Getting something done

[Cory K.]

Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> For
> example, "Who" has been very active on the list lately and he is one
> of the people who achieved this goal a few releases ago. And he didn't
> even have PPAs available for his project! As a matter of fact, you can
> benefit from his hard work by starting with the bluebuntu source
> package and using it as the base for your own theme.

Actually, example-look is better as Ubuntu Studio made it's initial art
packages from it. Improved it, then gave the changes back to example-look.

> If in doubt, ask
> for help either here or the MOTUs.
>   

There will be little help there. Though it's still worth a try. Ken
can't even get help with the *official* art packages. :P

-Cory K.


-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Cory K.]

Salane Ashcraft wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>> 
>>> Its just I hear stuff from people who have been here long, but what
>>> have they done? Ken himself has said the art team needs to prove
>>> itself to be trusted with anything substantial.
>>>   
>> Thats not really the point of the "You haven't been here long." comment.
>> It's that there's a whole history of issues that have plagued the art
>> team. All usually centering around the lack of real direction and being
>> subject to Mark's misunderstanding of art and design.
>>
>> There are many talented people pn this list that can more than make
>> Ubuntu rock. They are mostly just waiting to see solid change from Mark
>> and Canonical. Actually, most AFAIK aren't waiting. They are done and
>> over it. So what we're kinda left with now are people like you that have
>> enthusiasm but no real experience.  Or, we have people with no artistic
>> ability and w really shouldn't be afraid to tell them that.
>>
>> It's a much more complex issue than you know.
>>
>> So I still give a big +1 for the "sub-team" idea. I hope you work on
>> your own vision of a theme, and not default. Best to hope for is that
>> pieces get picked for default.
>>
>> -Cory
>>
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-art mailing list
>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>> 
>
> People with no experience that are helping are just as good as people
> with it that are not.
>   

So,  inexperienced help=no help?

> Also what doesnt help is no support from those in charge.
>   

Which is, and has always been the issue. Something you would know more
about *if you had been here longer*.

> Also- I know the issue. I have had many conversations with several
> people who have been involved or are still involved. No one else is
> trying for anything really.
>   

Same old same old. Talk without action. :) This is because of multiple
reasons. Something experience in this community would have showed you. ;)


Salane. Organize *your own* effort. You will never herd the cats on this
list. :) It will always be the same people that do anything. The 20-80
rule. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle) Don't care about
default. Let Ken worry about that. He and Mark can come along and
cherry-pick what they like if they want.

* Pick you own GTK theme.
* Pick you own GDM.
* Pick you own fonts.
* Pick you own UI layout.
* Pick you own icons.
* Pick you own Usplash.

-Cory

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Getting something done

[Who]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>> For
>> example, "Who" has been very active on the list lately and he is one
>> of the people who achieved this goal a few releases ago. And he didn't
>> even have PPAs available for his project! As a matter of fact, you can
>> benefit from his hard work by starting with the bluebuntu source
>> package and using it as the base for your own theme.

Giving credit where due, Frank Schoep and Daniel Holbach managed the
packaging, I did the other bits :)

>
> Actually, example-look is better as Ubuntu Studio made it's initial art
> packages from it. Improved it, then gave the changes back to example-look.

Alongside ExampleLook as an example of packaging there is the Blubuntu
Wiki which is still around - that gives a nice idea of how we got
everything together for design. It isn't the best way to do it, but it
did work... Maybe you can take some ideas from it, or even save
yourself some time by just using it as a template (find and replace
Blubuntu and you'll have a good generic template, I reckon...)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu

Everything else I would say about getting stuff done is here

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-April/005837.html

Ken's response suggests that he agreed then, not sure if he still does...

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Getting something done

[Who]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>>> For
>>> example, "Who" has been very active on the list lately and he is one
>>> of the people who achieved this goal a few releases ago. And he didn't
>>> even have PPAs available for his project! As a matter of fact, you can
>>> benefit from his hard work by starting with the bluebuntu source
>>> package and using it as the base for your own theme.
>
> Giving credit where due, Frank Schoep and Daniel Holbach managed the
> packaging, I did the other bits :)
>
Whopsie, PingunZ made the GDM from my images. Sorry PingunZ!

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Getting something done

[Cory K.]

Who wrote:
> Whopsie, PingunZ made the GDM from my images. Sorry PingunZ!
>   

Something someone who *actually cares* to move their theme/idea forward
to they packaging stage should learn when they dig through the example
of your package. :)

BTW, when are you gonna update Blubuntu? :P

/me runs.

-Cory \m/

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Salane Ashcraft]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>>>
 Its just I hear stuff from people who have been here long, but what
 have they done? Ken himself has said the art team needs to prove
 itself to be trusted with anything substantial.

>>> Thats not really the point of the "You haven't been here long." comment.
>>> It's that there's a whole history of issues that have plagued the art
>>> team. All usually centering around the lack of real direction and being
>>> subject to Mark's misunderstanding of art and design.
>>>
>>> There are many talented people pn this list that can more than make
>>> Ubuntu rock. They are mostly just waiting to see solid change from Mark
>>> and Canonical. Actually, most AFAIK aren't waiting. They are done and
>>> over it. So what we're kinda left with now are people like you that have
>>> enthusiasm but no real experience.  Or, we have people with no artistic
>>> ability and w really shouldn't be afraid to tell them that.
>>>
>>> It's a much more complex issue than you know.
>>>
>>> So I still give a big +1 for the "sub-team" idea. I hope you work on
>>> your own vision of a theme, and not default. Best to hope for is that
>>> pieces get picked for default.
>>>
>>> -Cory
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ubuntu-art mailing list
>>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>>>
>>
>> People with no experience that are helping are just as good as people
>> with it that are not.
>>
>
> So,  inexperienced help=no help?
>

Experienced not helping=no help. Doesnt make a difference either way.

>> Also what doesnt help is no support from those in charge.
>>
>
> Which is, and has always been the issue. Something you would know more
> about *if you had been here longer*.
>

I have been on the list and have been reading logs for a while. I know.

>> Also- I know the issue. I have had many conversations with several
>> people who have been involved or are still involved. No one else is
>> trying for anything really.
>>
>
> Same old same old. Talk without action. :) This is because of multiple
> reasons. Something experience in this community would have showed you. ;)
>

I have said the same thing, so many times. I knew nothing about how to
build Gtk themes, metacity, or the like, but I have taken the effort
to learn.
>
> Salane. Organize *your own* effort. You will never herd the cats on this
> list. :) It will always be the same people that do anything. The 20-80
> rule. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle) Don't care about
> default. Let Ken worry about that. He and Mark can come along and
> cherry-pick what they like if they want.
>
>* Pick you own GTK theme.
>* Pick you own GDM.
>* Pick you own fonts.
>* Pick you own UI layout.
>* Pick you own icons.
>* Pick you own Usplash.
>
> -Cory
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

My efforts were not born out of my desire for a theme/look. It was
born out of my rfiends comments who I knew were judging it based on
looks. Everyone does. It needs to change-

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art