Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.

[Nick Bauermeister]

Am Freitag, den 04.01.2008, 02:52 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer:
> we are not going to 
> change the theme for Hardy radically as it is the last of the LTS cycle

Didn't you mean _next_ there?


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

Hey, the last one is incredible!!

2008/1/4, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi!
>
> No access to my archive here -> new thread.
>
> A new bug, based on the likely most hated real life bug ;)
> Plus shading.
>
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/ubuntu-brainstorm-6/
>
> Please tell me:
> - is the bug recognizable (being a bug, not the exact species)?
> - which shading do you prefer?
> - is there anything I should change?
>
>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[ubuntu-art] Theme Update

[Andrew Laignel]

I've done a bit of tweaking on my theme based on the feedback I have 
recieved so far and added some bits.  Just so you know - details on the 
wiki.  Comments would be appreciated as usual!

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos

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[ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[t_w_]

Hi!

No access to my archive here -> new thread.

A new bug, based on the likely most hated real life bug ;)
Plus shading.

http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/ubuntu-brainstorm-6/

Please tell me:
- is the bug recognizable (being a bug, not the exact species)?
- which shading do you prefer?
- is there anything I should change?


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Donn]

I kind of like those.

Here's another quick idea (bzip2 tar), using the elements of your ideas. I'm 
not much good at gradients, and Ink keeps crashing on me with this file, for 
some reason, but it's supposed to be a bug-spray can.

\d
> A new bug, based on the likely most hated real life bug ;)
> Plus shading.

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[ubuntu-art] // a new take on brown: mockup seen on Digg //

[julian]

i just spotted this and thought i'd post it here for posterity and/or comments:


http://mossblaser.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-8-04-GUI-Design-Idea-72574609

i like where the brown is going in there, dark without the dusk. 

see how the blue in the example notification box stands out against 
complementary 
hues in the overall colour space. i think this is working well.

first seen here:

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_04_GUI_Design_Idea

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[shadowh511]

Thanks for the GTK theme, Ken.
I think that it could use one thing to make it perfect.
The color, it needs to be brown.e
When I think of Ubuntu, I think of a clean, simple OS.  the color brown 
represents cleanliness and simplicity, while blue represents sadness and 
fear.  If we want to have people download hardy, why not give them a 
nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble 
windows and all of that eye candy.
Hey, its an idea

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Jan Niklas Hasse]

> the color brown represents cleanliness

i don't think so
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[shadowh511]

Jan Niklas Hasse wrote:
> > the color brown represents cleanliness
>
> i don't think so
its my opinion

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Donn]

What the heck - some more hated bug ideas.
\d


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Nicolas Deschildre]

On Jan 4, 2008 12:59 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> No access to my archive here -> new thread.
>
> A new bug, based on the likely most hated real life bug ;)
> Plus shading.
>
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/ubuntu-brainstorm-6/
>
> Please tell me:
> - is the bug recognizable (being a bug, not the exact species)?
> - which shading do you prefer?
> - is there anything I should change?

Whenever I think something really nice, you make it better :)
The shading is really nice (especially the fourth one), and it is
looking, well, real!
But I have a weird feeling on them. It's like they are carrying a
third meaning. First is Ubuntu, second is the "most hated" part, and
the third is an artistic connotation: it is too ... real-like, like it
was drawn with pencils and then scanned! I think it is mainly the bug
which gives me this feeling. When I see a logo drawn like this like
with pencils, it gives an artistic connotation and I will expect the
website to be somehow artwork-related. At the contrary, the logo you
made for Ubuntu idea brainstorming does not give me this feeling at
all.
I'm not sure if I'm clear, this part was hard for me to write.

Thanks,
Nicolas

>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Ken Vermette]

I just updated the wiki to include some buttons and tabs, so there's a rough
idea of the direction widgets could be going. I pushed it out as quickly as
I could, but I didn't have my regular machine so I couldn't build it as
quickly as I would have liked. I'll have an update later today with multiple
desktop wallpapers and the like, with more widgets as well. I'll also polish
existing widgets.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the GTK, so I'll see if I can get
some contributions into the GTK as well, but for now I'll focus on Emerald,
and an opaque version of Union.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union

Also, I'm leaving on the 13th of this month, so my last updates will be on
the night of the 12th before I go into a 3-month blackout. It could
potentially be over a year I'm disconnected, but I believe it will only be 3
months. Either way, I'll probably gone until the LTS of Ubuntu comes out -
so if there's anything anybody needs/wants, tell me so I can get it done.

On Jan 3, 2008 11:49 PM, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I'm thinking we can go ahead and get as close as we can to his mockup with
> what is currently available.  Then tackle the nitty gritty stuff possibly
> hacking some engines.
>
> Attached a slightly updated gtk.
> 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:07:42 +0100
> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full
> Union GTK theme.
> >
> > Hi folks!
> >
> > I think one of the problems creating a theme like Kens mockup could be,
> that (AFAIK) there is no gtk-engine supporting things like rounded corners
> for menus, because the only transparency we can get there comes from
> compiz/beryl/xcompmgr.
> > I think we would need to hack an engine...
> >
> > cheers Sebastian Billaudelle
> > Am Mittwoch, den 02.01.2008, 23:32 -0500 schrieb Ken Vermette:
> > I've tackled Emerald, I'll be honest and say "I suck" when it comes to
> the live conversion, so it could probably be done better. I'll post what I
> have done tomorrow the moment I get at my regular development machine
> (traveling). I'll also make a variation with an opaque content arera in case
> Cimis' GTK mod is a beast, and to help get things rolling. We might need it
> anyway for low-end machines using Metacity.
> >
> > Should I post the Emerald theme I have in the Wiki? Or is there anywhere
> you would prefer to keep the files?
> >
> > (Also, thank you! Been fighting this stuff tooth and nail, I'm still
> very new to the theme formats)
> >
> > --Ken Vermette
> >
> > On Jan 2, 2008 11:07 PM, xl cheese < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm going to try to mimick Ken's mockups as close as I can with a true
> gtk theme.  If anyone here would like to help out with it email and we can
> take it offline.  I'll start using the pixmap engine for things I can't get
> any current themes to make then attempt to alter some other engines to do it
> and replace the pixmap parts.
> > 
> >> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:52:09 -0500
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> >> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
> >>
> >> "Ooh, what's that one?"
> >>
> >> OSX is long held as one of the boldest and most unique designs in the
> industry, when Windows was just toying with XP - Apple made the ultra-shiny,
> over-glossed look and threw in every effect they could think of and paired
> it with a pinstripe. If you look at OSX now, compared to when it was first
> demonstrated, it has toned down dramatically; no pinstripes, for example.
> >>
> >> That being said, I'm a firm believer in designs that are both bold and
> unique. If it's unique, people will remember it. If it's bold, people will
> talk about it. When you see a desktop screen-shot of Vista, you know it's
> Vista. Vista is bold, unique. When you see OSX, you can see the dock - the
> signature - Unique to OSX. Apple has always been bold, and the big "X" on
> the box shouts at you. "Ooh, what's that one?"
> >>
> >> If you want to make an argument for just being Unique - that bold
> should be beyond our users, then I would be tempted to present Amiga.
> There's an operating unique to itself, but there's no oomph in the design.
> I've only ever -heard- of these Amiga users, and I only hear that the Amiga
> users out there are the ones unwilling to let it go. I doubt anyone will
> walk by an Amiga in a store and be captured by it. It's unique, and users of
> Amiga reminisce about it - but it's not being talked about in anything other
> than fond memories.
> >>
> >> Linux users have posted pictures of Vista-clone desktops, or OSX-like
> machines. You forget them, because it's not unique or ever as polished as
> the original. Linux/Ubuntu is not Vista, it's not OSX, it's not Amiga:
> Ubuntu needs to be Unique and bold - Capturing - Ubuntu. Ubuntu can be that,
> and be user-friendly at the 

Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Nicolas Deschildre]

On Jan 4, 2008 8:57 PM, Donn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What the heck - some more hated bug ideas.
> \d

Thanks for your mockups!
I'm looking at their meanings but I'm still feeling the arrows are the
best symbols yet to express the "most hated" part of the message we
want to deliver. Here this part of the message is not obvious at all.
The bug in the Ubuntu battery is original, but the "most hated" part
of the message is also missing.

Thanks,
Nicolas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Troy James Sobotka]

Nicolas Deschildre wrote:
> When I see a logo drawn like this like
> with pencils, it gives an artistic connotation and I will expect the
> website to be somehow artwork-related. 

Ignore your feelings.  You are beginning to fall into the
FOSS trap when it comes to art and design - the avoiding
of anything that creates any sort of emotional attachment.

The presentation on a website is a far cry from an
agnostic api or tidbit of code.  Even if the random
speculation were relevant or accurate, it would be
another discussion altogether on whether there were
merits in the association.

It is your site, but beware -- the art direction decisions
you are choosing will have a noted impact on adoption,
usage, and resulting success.

Sincerely,
TJS



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Troy James Sobotka]

Nicolas Deschildre wrote:
> The bug in the Ubuntu battery is original, but the "most hated" part
> of the message is also missing.

As proof of my last point.  I'll go out on a limb and suggest
that it is a can of bug killer. *sigh*.

Sincerely,
TJS



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Donn]

> As proof of my last point.  I'll go out on a limb and suggest
> that it is a can of bug killer. *sigh*.
Yup, bug killer alright - the nozzle is not well drawn.

\d

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme Update

[sylvain marc]

Good theme

2008/1/4, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> I've done a bit of tweaking on my theme based on the feedback I have
> recieved so far and added some bits.  Just so you know - details on the
> wiki.  Comments would be appreciated as usual!
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] // a new take on brown: mockup seen on Digg //

[Thomas L.G]

Hi there. Think it looks very good, although I don't like the wallpaper 
at all (it is over-used and not at all something we should use in 8.04). 
This theme with a better wallpaper and merged window-top & menu, would 
be really neat.

- Thomas L.G

julian skrev:
> i just spotted this and thought i'd post it here for posterity and/or 
> comments:
>
>   
> http://mossblaser.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-8-04-GUI-Design-Idea-72574609
>
> i like where the brown is going in there, dark without the dusk. 
>
> see how the blue in the example notification box stands out against 
> complementary 
> hues in the overall colour space. i think this is working well.
>
> first seen here:
>
>   http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_04_GUI_Design_Idea
>   
> cheers,
>
>   


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[shadowh511]

For the most hated bug, how about a bug that looks like a devil?

lots of ppl hate the devil.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Most Hated Bug continued

[Nicolas Deschildre]

On Jan 4, 2008 9:48 PM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nicolas Deschildre wrote:
> > When I see a logo drawn like this like
> > with pencils, it gives an artistic connotation and I will expect the
> > website to be somehow artwork-related.
>
> Ignore your feelings.  You are beginning to fall into the
> FOSS trap when it comes to art and design - the avoiding
> of anything that creates any sort of emotional attachment.
>
> The presentation on a website is a far cry from an
> agnostic api or tidbit of code.  Even if the random
> speculation were relevant or accurate, it would be
> another discussion altogether on whether there were
> merits in the association.

Ok I see your point... I'm not usually involved into interacting with
artists for artwork, so thanks for the tips.

>
> It is your site, but beware -- the art direction decisions
> you are choosing will have a noted impact on adoption,
> usage, and resulting success.
>
> Sincerely,
> TJS
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme Update

[julian]

..on Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 10:25:18PM +0100, sylvain marc wrote:
> Good theme

this is a clean and eye-pleasing direction.

comments:

  i think the shading on the buttons is a bit too much, perhaps
  so much so that it's hard to differentiate between a button-pressed and
  a button-normal. could they not be 'flatter'? this may make them look 
  like they're more a part of the canvas than the stuff the window title 
  is made of..

  i find the diagonal pattern in the scrollbar troughs a bit too much, 
  perhaps even dominating the scroll-handle itself. taking the
  trough colour back to a simple dark gradiant might be enough. 

  that panel gradiant is good: just enough to give them form.

  the window title text is well resolved too i think: it sits out with the
  same depth those buttons are in relief. choice of typeface is great..

  i think the contrast is better in the v1.5 than v1.6. i'd be keen to
  see v1.5 with squarer buttons and a few of the above suggestions
  implemented..

cheers,

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> 
> 2008/1/4, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > I've done a bit of tweaking on my theme based on the feedback I have
> > recieved so far and added some bits.  Just so you know - details on the
> > wiki.  Comments would be appreciated as usual!
> >
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos
> >
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> >

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Nemes Ioan Sorin]

shadowh511 wrote:
> Thanks for the GTK theme, Ken.
> I think that it could use one thing to make it perfect.
> The color, it needs to be brown.e
> When I think of Ubuntu, I think of a clean, simple OS.  the color brown 
> represents cleanliness and simplicity, while blue represents sadness and 
> fear.  If we want to have people download hardy, why not give them a 
> nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble 
> windows and all of that eye candy.
> Hey, its an idea
> 

Hey shadowh511

;) Blue is not FEAR - Blue is freedom - You can believe a designer. And
an UI designer.

Blue OR blue + green, well combined will give you a Peace of Mind
feeling [don't think a second that $MS designers are stupid].

Brown will give you after a while a sensation of sadness.
Red Derived colors accelerate beat of your heart.
There is no way to use Porto / Brown themes and to have millions of lovers.

Blue (warm blue) is a healthy color associated with peace.
Cold blue ( or cold blue + cold green ) generally mean Fresh.

$MS for example combined (in their logo's) all 4 base colors - which
combined - will obtain the best influence for the eye of mases. Blue,
Green (Sky and Grass, Peace, Silence, Free Space) and Orange + Brown (
which are comestibles colors [= colors used in Food's industry for
advertising especially - because human eye association { bread, burgers,
etc }])

So Ubuntu want to use comestible colors in general. That's not bad but
in intention (is working for commercials).

But an OS must use neutral colors for UI - like colored grays (that's
what Solaris do now with Nimbus theme) - which must have a minimal
influence to your mind on long term [that's why they use gray + a bit of
blue in their colored gray]. Any other stories are speculations. Those
thinks are known.

Human Eye and Hyman Brain - they have some rules which we can not change
  by our own pleasure even we are Bill Gates or Bil Laden - because this
is from Nature and this rule will rule until the end.

Those rules are known - and I asking myself why that fact does not count
here.

Also Clearlooks (Gummy) are a pretty nice theme. What's wrong with
Clearlooks ? - can be colored at your desire - base colors are customizable.

Also please take a look at the AURORA gtk engine, theme and proposals at:
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aurora+Unified+Suite+(Preview)?content=70138
AND
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aurora+Gtk+Engine?content=56438
OR take a look to my screenshoot to see Aurora in action on my desktop :
http://www.leclubyahmala.ro/aurora.html

SO why not ask / invite the author to design for Ubuntu Artwork a theme 
based on Aurora if we desperately need something "of our own". This is a 
nice concept and metaphor and is almost perfect. The author is an 
experienced designer and programmer hhttp://www.nanolx.org/


Wait for a response from the community side about Aurora.

Yours,

Nemes Ioan Sorin


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme Update

[Nemes Ioan Sorin]

julian wrote:
> ..on Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 10:25:18PM +0100, sylvain marc wrote:
>> Good theme
> 
> this is a clean and eye-pleasing direction.
> 
> comments:
> 
>   i think the shading on the buttons is a bit too much, perhaps
>   so much so that it's hard to differentiate between a button-pressed and
>   a button-normal. could they not be 'flatter'? this may make them look 
>   like they're more a part of the canvas than the stuff the window title 
>   is made of..
> 
>   i find the diagonal pattern in the scrollbar troughs a bit too much, 
>   perhaps even dominating the scroll-handle itself. taking the
>   trough colour back to a simple dark gradiant might be enough. 
> 
>   that panel gradiant is good: just enough to give them form.
> 
>   the window title text is well resolved too i think: it sits out with the
>   same depth those buttons are in relief. choice of typeface is great..
> 
>   i think the contrast is better in the v1.5 than v1.6. i'd be keen to
>   see v1.5 with squarer buttons and a few of the above suggestions
>   implemented..
> 
> cheers,
> 

Sorry Julian,

you say "this is a clean and eye-pleasing direction" ...but is not 
really ;).

really. From a functional perspective those scrollbars is not what is 
supposed to be regarding UI Usability.

First functionality, then the candy - that's the rule in Design.

Scrollbars must mark visually that there in place, the content overflow 
  over recipient margins and it's height/width should suggest an 
approximative difference between how much information are hidden and how 
much is visible.

Scrollbar must be enough distinctive place and should not distract the 
look focus from content. In our case we have here an interesting 
hypnotic effect created by the scroll-track bar. Moving the scrollbar 
over the scroll-track - this hypnotic effect is amplified.

So I see here some problems - theme is nice and clean - but scrollbar 
design denote one fact -> the author is not yet very clear on it's 
knowledge, on it's power. Yet.No problem - time and experience will help 
here. But the scrollbar is not usable as is now.

Other elements are OK (excluding colors of course - but is not his 
choice I understand that).


SorinN


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Troy James Sobotka]

Nemes Ioan Sorin wrote:
> Blue OR blue + green, well combined will give you a Peace of Mind
> feeling [don't think a second that $MS designers are stupid].

Once again, colour psychology has been debunked 100 times
in 10 different environments.  Don't even think about going
there.  Look no further than the most extreme cases of light -
black and white.  Black is sometimes associated with death in
some cultures, white in others.

We have been over this rubbish 1000 times before.  Don't peddle
it here without getting a swift bout of recourse.  It is utter
tripe, utterly misleading, and a complete distraction from the
point at hand.

Nemes Ioan Sorin wrote:
> First functionality, then the candy - that's the rule in Design.

And you are aware that our now ubiquitous 'form versus function'
was a general byproduct of the "Swiss Style" movement?  It is also
a dated approach from a contemporary standpoint.

You are also aware that movements change?  You just barfed up some
fictional "fact" that once again is rooted in contextual relationship
to society and artistic / design tends.

Sorry, but I have been reading this list too long to put up
with yet-another-fictional-fact regarding art and design.  You
just said something close to "Disco is the only musical style
out there.  It will always be the way to create music." or
"Food that is always built with no spice or herbs will always
be successful to every audience that tastes them."

Sincerely,
TJS



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Who]

If you want to make a Blue/Green theme for Ubuntu using aurora then a
Theme Team is a good way...

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/ThemeTeams

You could get the guy that develops aurora to do it if he wanted?

On Jan 5, 2008 12:55 AM, Nemes Ioan Sorin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> shadowh511 wrote:
> > Thanks for the GTK theme, Ken.
> > I think that it could use one thing to make it perfect.
> > The color, it needs to be brown.e
> > When I think of Ubuntu, I think of a clean, simple OS.  the color brown
> > represents cleanliness and simplicity, while blue represents sadness and
> > fear.  If we want to have people download hardy, why not give them a
> > nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble
> > windows and all of that eye candy.
> > Hey, its an idea
> >
>
> Hey shadowh511
>
> ;) Blue is not FEAR - Blue is freedom - You can believe a designer. And
> an UI designer.
>
> Blue OR blue + green, well combined will give you a Peace of Mind
> feeling [don't think a second that $MS designers are stupid].
>
> Brown will give you after a while a sensation of sadness.
> Red Derived colors accelerate beat of your heart.
> There is no way to use Porto / Brown themes and to have millions of lovers.
>
> Blue (warm blue) is a healthy color associated with peace.
> Cold blue ( or cold blue + cold green ) generally mean Fresh.
>
> $MS for example combined (in their logo's) all 4 base colors - which
> combined - will obtain the best influence for the eye of mases. Blue,
> Green (Sky and Grass, Peace, Silence, Free Space) and Orange + Brown (
> which are comestibles colors [= colors used in Food's industry for
> advertising especially - because human eye association { bread, burgers,
> etc }])
>
> So Ubuntu want to use comestible colors in general. That's not bad but
> in intention (is working for commercials).
>
> But an OS must use neutral colors for UI - like colored grays (that's
> what Solaris do now with Nimbus theme) - which must have a minimal
> influence to your mind on long term [that's why they use gray + a bit of
> blue in their colored gray]. Any other stories are speculations. Those
> thinks are known.
>
> Human Eye and Hyman Brain - they have some rules which we can not change
>   by our own pleasure even we are Bill Gates or Bil Laden - because this
> is from Nature and this rule will rule until the end.
>
> Those rules are known - and I asking myself why that fact does not count
> here.
>
> Also Clearlooks (Gummy) are a pretty nice theme. What's wrong with
> Clearlooks ? - can be colored at your desire - base colors are customizable.
>
> Also please take a look at the AURORA gtk engine, theme and proposals at:
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aurora+Unified+Suite+(Preview)?content=70138
> AND
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aurora+Gtk+Engine?content=56438
> OR take a look to my screenshoot to see Aurora in action on my desktop :
> http://www.leclubyahmala.ro/aurora.html
>
> SO why not ask / invite the author to design for Ubuntu Artwork a theme
> based on Aurora if we desperately need something "of our own". This is a
> nice concept and metaphor and is almost perfect. The author is an
> experienced designer and programmer hhttp://www.nanolx.org/
>
>
> Wait for a response from the community side about Aurora.
>
> Yours,
>
> Nemes Ioan Sorin
>
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme Update

[Ken Vermette]

I like the way you've used the brown and made it feel very light. Also, the
way elements will use two tones of brown is very appealing.

The first impression when I look at the theme though, is that it's looking
at what else looks good - and patches all these looks together. In the end,
individually all the pieces look good on their own, but the theme itself
looks a like patchwork.

What the theme really needs (in my personal opinion) is some basic or
structure to go by, more consistency.

For example, something like the outlines. Here's the different styles I've
counted in the lines alone:

 - 2px, dark brown (Active Window)
 - 1px, dark brown (Inactive Window)
 - 1px black  (Panels)
 - 1px light brown (Dropdown, inner content-box)
 - 1px gray (panel inactive window)

You have gray, black, several shades of brown... The outlines could
technically work - but there's no real pattern to it. There's two drop downs
and while everything else is identical about them, they have 2 styles of
outline... It's just what looks best for each individual element. Try making
some sort of pattern or structure for it like you had before, for example,
heres some possible rules:

 - active windows & widgets, dark brown.
 - inactive windows & widgets, light gray.
 - windows, 2px.
 - all other elements, 1px.

Your first scrollbars shared that same semitransparent look as the origional
dropdown, but now the scrollbars look like inactive parts in an active
window. Buttons are glossy but the window title is textured. Every element
is rounded to a different degree. When you start defining what things should
look like on a global level, elements may not look -as- good on an
individual basis, but overall it would look much better.

In a nutshell, my advice would be to use jot down some basic rules on
outlines, fills, textures, colours, how rounded corners should be, where and
what direction gradients should look like, etc.  Then comb over your theme,
and unify the look & feel. The first incarnation of your theme was much more
consistent across all the elements, and as a whole my opinion is that it
looked better.

The theme is good though, and it's got huge potential. Keep up the good
work!

-- 
-Ken Vermette

On Jan 4, 2008 7:15 PM, Nemes Ioan Sorin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> julian wrote:
> > ..on Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 10:25:18PM +0100, sylvain marc wrote:
> >> Good theme
> >
> > this is a clean and eye-pleasing direction.
> >
> > comments:
> >
> >   i think the shading on the buttons is a bit too much, perhaps
> >   so much so that it's hard to differentiate between a button-pressed
> and
> >   a button-normal. could they not be 'flatter'? this may make them look
> >   like they're more a part of the canvas than the stuff the window title
> >   is made of..
> >
> >   i find the diagonal pattern in the scrollbar troughs a bit too much,
> >   perhaps even dominating the scroll-handle itself. taking the
> >   trough colour back to a simple dark gradiant might be enough.
> >
> >   that panel gradiant is good: just enough to give them form.
> >
> >   the window title text is well resolved too i think: it sits out with
> the
> >   same depth those buttons are in relief. choice of typeface is great..
> >
> >   i think the contrast is better in the v1.5 than v1.6. i'd be keen to
> >   see v1.5 with squarer buttons and a few of the above suggestions
> >   implemented..
> >
> > cheers,
> >
>
> Sorry Julian,
>
> you say "this is a clean and eye-pleasing direction" ...but is not
> really ;).
>
> really. From a functional perspective those scrollbars is not what is
> supposed to be regarding UI Usability.
>
> First functionality, then the candy - that's the rule in Design.
>
> Scrollbars must mark visually that there in place, the content overflow
>  over recipient margins and it's height/width should suggest an
> approximative difference between how much information are hidden and how
> much is visible.
>
> Scrollbar must be enough distinctive place and should not distract the
> look focus from content. In our case we have here an interesting
> hypnotic effect created by the scroll-track bar. Moving the scrollbar
> over the scroll-track - this hypnotic effect is amplified.
>
> So I see here some problems - theme is nice and clean - but scrollbar
> design denote one fact -> the author is not yet very clear on it's
> knowledge, on it's power. Yet.No problem - time and experience will help
> here. But the scrollbar is not usable as is now.
>
> Other elements are OK (excluding colors of course - but is not his
> choice I understand that).
>
>
> SorinN
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Ken Vermette]

On Jan 4, 2008 8:17 PM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Nemes Ioan Sorin wrote:
> > Blue OR blue + green, well combined will give you a Peace of Mind
> > feeling [don't think a second that $MS designers are stupid].
>
> Once again, colour psychology has been debunked 100 times
> in 10 different environments.  Don't even think about going
> there.  Look no further than the most extreme cases of light -
> black and white.  Black is sometimes associated with death in
> some cultures, white in others.
>
> We have been over this rubbish 1000 times before.  Don't peddle
> it here without getting a swift bout of recourse.  It is utter
> tripe, utterly misleading, and a complete distraction from the
> point at hand.


This is a nature vs nurture argument, and nobody will ever be right. Colours
do affect people, but it will affect people differently. There's no point
going into a bloodcurdling rage over colour theory, because despite being a
theory, it still has merit. I know that bright yellow is a much happier
colour than a dark gray. When you see bluish green you're going to think of
water. You might even associate water with being clean or hydrated, but red
kool-aid would do that for red.

The only problem with colour theory is when you read too far into things. I
won't say any particular colour represents fear, or sadness. I just agree
that you associate colours with objects, and those materials will determine
how you associate with those colours. So if we wanted to choose colours we
should really look at why they represent what. Why is brown a clean/dirty
colour? Some people say brown is delicious, but it's not the colour they
like, it's the chocolate. When we know why a colour feels what way, then we
can design the hue, tone, lightness and texture of the colour around the
analog. Delicious brown might be chocolaty or coffee-like, sturdy brown
might look more like wood with a grain. Dry brown might look like sand, or
avoid dirty brown that might look like waste.

Nemes Ioan Sorin wrote:
> > First functionality, then the candy - that's the rule in Design.
>
> And you are aware that our now ubiquitous 'form versus function'
> was a general byproduct of the "Swiss Style" movement?  It is also
> a dated approach from a contemporary standpoint.


> You are also aware that movements change?  You just barfed up some
> fictional "fact" that once again is rooted in contextual relationship
> to society and artistic / design tends.
>

Functionality first. We didn't get to where we are now because as cavemen we
decided we wanted a round spear instead of a pointy one. You need to design
the functionality of your system before you polish it. You could design a
perfectly flat phone but at one point you had to carry the things in a bag -
but we did manage to make the bag look decent.

If you don't build the functionality of the system first, you have nowhere
to start, that's all. If we didn't have the functionality known as "buttons"
and "windows" you'd probably fight that the font of your command-line
interface needs to be serif because sans fonts are made for functionality.

Fact is, you need to design functionality first, with what you have. When
that's over with, you can polish with the room you have remaining. There's
so much leeway now that you might have the illusion that there's no need for
function - but you're still working with _functional_ elements. Even new
designs, like a round contextual menu, still first must have a functional
design. Design for arts sake might look good, but cripple the experience.

Sorry, but I have been reading this list too long to put up
> with yet-another-fictional-fact regarding art and design.  You
> just said something close to "Disco is the only musical style
> out there.  It will always be the way to create music." or
> "Food that is always built with no spice or herbs will always
> be successful to every audience that tastes them."
>

The main thing is that I do, partially agree with you. There's common sense
and then there's extreme Freudian theory. Common sense says I like milk
because I find it delicious. Freud might say I like milk because it
subconsciously reminds me of milk from my mother in after birth and I want
to feel young - so on. I was never breastfed.

The main thing about your comment I disagree with, was the attitude taken.
I'm sorry to point to call you out on it, but you should focus on the
contributing instead of attacking. Slogging through several paragraphs and
not one of them actually had real input. You can be a little more civil in
your argument - and get more done in the process.

Sincerely,
> TJS
>

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[shadowh511]

You know what,
lets not create an official theme and have the user choose a theme from 
a list when the account is created
or have a dialog to ask which OS they used in the past and have it open 
themes to make it look like that os
Hey, its an idea

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[shadowh511]

I really like the union theme, how about a dialog to change the color?  
it would be like what Vista has and osx needs

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Ken Vermette]

I think if something like that would be implemented as a general feature, it
would be perfect. Probably something running a selective hue rotation system
would give users the most control, and doing it would instantly give all
themes colour selection to a limited degree. For now even basic
hue/saturation/colorization would be good.

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On Jan 4, 2008 10:58 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I really like the union theme, how about a dialog to change the color?
> it would be like what Vista has and osx needs
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[Ken Vermette]

Probably not a good idea, in my opinion.

It would require an additional dialog/prompt during interrupting our
well-streamlined installation process, and possibly confuse some users. It
could additionally kill the ability to easily troubleshoot without needing
to ask how the user has their computer configured.

In terms of branding, Ubuntu would also lose it's brand awareness, and risk
potential suits for stealing another systems look & feel. Plus we would need
to maintain several themes at once, and risk needing to program new features
specifically for imitation...

Apologies, just not so hot on the idea.

-Ken Vermette

On Jan 4, 2008 10:24 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You know what,
> lets not create an official theme and have the user choose a theme from
> a list when the account is created
> or have a dialog to ask which OS they used in the past and have it open
> themes to make it look like that os
> Hey, its an idea
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop kickin' the dead horse - Create a full Union GTK theme.

[shadowh511]

Ken Vermette wrote:
> I think if something like that would be implemented as a general 
> feature, it would be perfect. Probably something running a selective 
> hue rotation system would give users the most control, and doing it 
> would instantly give all themes colour selection to a limited degree. 
> For now even basic hue/saturation/colorization would be good.
>
> -- 
> -Ken Vermette
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 10:58 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> I really like the union theme, how about a dialog to change the color?
> it would be like what Vista has and osx needs
>
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>
Ken,
One of the selling points of windows vista is the ability to change the 
color of the window frames (i'll be removing vista from my laptop in the 
next week) which is nice, because i hate the default colors of windows 
vista.  simply put, color is personal, you should be allowed to change 
the color of the window frames to whatever color you want, whether its 
pink, blue, puce, or brown, we need color-customization, if we do this, 
we will have the title of the only linux distro with color-customization 
for the window borders.  I gimpped around, and found that union would 
work best for this.  So i vote for union.

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